ElrohirEluchil Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Well Cin was a master of every form save for Juyo/Vaapad(Though he knew enough to give an accurate description), being a swordmaster who by definition trained constantly in combat I think he was a dedicated master to all forms. Or at the very least, he didn't let his skills slip up cause then he wouldn't be a swordmaster. Also Elrohir Aalya was a master of Ataru. Meh, Was that or Shien/Djem So when i wrote the post, guess I aint got any Solo luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Meh, Was that or Shien/Djem So when i wrote the post, guess I aint got any Solo luck Only Solo, can have Solo luck. Didn't work so well when he faced Vader though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElrohirEluchil Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Only Solo, can have Solo luck. Didn't work so well when he faced Vader though... He survived didnt he? I'd say thats pretty darn lucky Especially since he did try to shoot him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 He survived didnt he? I'd say thats pretty darn lucky Especially since he did try to shoot him Very true.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sewerus Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 I feel the same way for me at least the old republic era is much more magical, and confuses when the knowladge of old isnt considered stronger then the new, when these jedi and sith of the new era, are using the exact same techniques of the sith and jedi of old used. I think for me its simple realy, george says that the golden age of the jedi are in the movies, and the strongest sith are in the movies, because lets be honest he made them that is the only reason. Now would a fan care about this? i personaly dont, i learned from long ago in star wars related to care only for what i like, most of EU i dont like. I prefer the comics, and the kotors in any case. And it would make sense actualy given star wars nature. Knowladge lost and waiting to be uncover by new force users, it would feel much more magical for me. But alas it isnt so. Evolution doenst equal strengh, but adaptation, that sense you speak is irrelevant, it could easly been written diferently and still make sense, star wars being a fantasy fiction setting nothing truly evolves. I feel the same way, If someone is living 3,500 years later doesn't mean he is wiser, powerful etc then the men who lived before. Since the knowdlege of jedi haven't been lost until palpatine, so the old masters should be more powerful then the new ones and it is the other way around. I think the reason they say that new jedi order is the most powerful, is that they created lore about those character before all other stuff so they want to stick with the canon. The same way how palpatine said in episode two, that there wasn't a full scale war since the formation of the republic. Luke didn't have any info about the jedi at the begining. It really pains me that he learned more in 4 years then people who have datacron, holocrons and countless masters at their disposal and on top of that he couldn't be learning all the time since was fighting in the rebelion also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I feel the same way, If someone is living 3,500 years later doesn't mean he is wiser, powerful etc then the men who lived before. Since the knowdlege of jedi haven't been lost until palpatine, so the old masters should be more powerful then the new ones and it is the other way around. I think the reason they say that new jedi order is the most powerful, is that they created lore about those character before all other stuff so they want to stick with the canon. The same way how palpatine said in episode two, that there wasn't a full scale war since the formation of the republic. Luke didn't have any info about the jedi at the begining. It really pains me that he learned more in 4 years then people who have datacron, holocrons and countless masters at their disposal and on top of that he couldn't be learning all the time since was fighting in the rebelion also. Luke has the potential of the chosen one, which helped him learn at a much faster pace then anyone else. Anakin was exactly the same way, he learned at a quick rate too. Remember Luke was also trained by Obi-Wan and Yoda, and trained himself. While yes he was fighting for the Rebellion, he still found time to train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReiKai Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 People say "G-canon this!" and "G-canon that!" and "blah blah blah". Let me tell you this. His word is Bogus. Lucas may have final say on what gets added to the SWU, but as far as the Lore itself goes, Lucas has barely any idea what goes on anymore and his Opinion on the subject doesn't mean squat. You wanna know why? Look at it like this. I'm more of a Manga fan and with Manga, there is generally only One Writer and One Artist. On many things the Artist and Writer are the same person. So when it comes to that particular Manga series, there's only One persons word who has absolute authority; The Writer's. Now, the problem with Star Wars? There's not just "One Writer". There's 20-30 or More. Each one may have to Respect the Original Material as made by George Lucas, but they are Not Restricted by it. And because there is more than one Writer, they All have a say in how things go, especially with Characters that were Not created by George Lucas. In fact, if someone were to watch the extras for Robot Chicken Star Wars 3, in one of them Seth Green asks George Lucas about what goes on with Mara Jade, and Lucas says to STOP Asking him about her because he did Not make that character. Lucas owns the Company, but the Writers are what make the SW Lore what it is, not GL. He started a project and they fleshed it out. So quite frankly, when he says something about His part of the Work, it doesn't mean much when 30 other people did a lot more than he did and contributed more to the Lore than he ever has. So what Lucas says about the PT Jedi or Sid and whathave you, is His personal view on them and Not Canon Fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 People say "G-canon this!" and "G-canon that!" and "blah blah blah". Let me tell you this. His word is Bogus. Lucas may have final say on what gets added to the SWU, but as far as the Lore itself goes, Lucas has barely any idea what goes on anymore and his Opinion on the subject doesn't mean squat. You wanna know why? Look at it like this. I'm more of a Manga fan and with Manga, there is generally only One Writer and One Artist. On many things the Artist and Writer are the same person. So when it comes to that particular Manga series, there's only One persons word who has absolute authority; The Writer's. Now, the problem with Star Wars? There's not just "One Writer". There's 20-30 or More. Each one may have to Respect the Original Material as made by George Lucas, but they are Not Restricted by it. And because there is more than one Writer, they All have a say in how things go, especially with Characters that were Not created by George Lucas. In fact, if someone were to watch the extras for Robot Chicken Star Wars 3, in one of them Seth Green asks George Lucas about what goes on with Mara Jade, and Lucas says to STOP Asking him about her because he did Not make that character. Lucas owns the Company, but the Writers are what make the SW Lore what it is, not GL. He started a project and they fleshed it out. So quite frankly, when he says something about His part of the Work, it doesn't mean much when 30 other people did a lot more than he did and contributed more to the Lore than he ever has. So what Lucas says about the PT Jedi or Sid and whathave you, is His personal view on them and Not Canon Fact. Despite your or my opinion on the matter he does own the IP and the canon system for this IP specifically has George Lucas holding 'God' status where matters of his IP are concerned the canon is changed specifically in Leland Chee's Holocron, to reflect anything Lucas states. He owns the IP, if Lucas says the best Jedi Order was the Jedi Order seen in the Prequels, then it is, end of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReiKai Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 He owns the IP, if Lucas says the best Jedi Order was the Jedi Order seen in the Prequels, then it is, end of discussion. No, really, is isn't. Because all the evidence proves that statement wrong. It's all been explained. What Lucas says is pure Hyperbole. That's all it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 No, really, is isn't. Because all the evidence proves that statement wrong. It's all been explained. What Lucas says is pure Hyperbole. That's all it is. Leland Chee, Keeper of the Holocron and all Canon would like a word with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sewerus Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 Despite your or my opinion on the matter he does own the IP and the canon system for this IP specifically has George Lucas holding 'God' status where matters of his IP are concerned the canon is changed specifically in Leland Chee's Holocron, to reflect anything Lucas states. He owns the IP, if Lucas says the best Jedi Order was the Jedi Order seen in the Prequels, then it is, end of discussion. Lucas also stated that books, all other stuff ( not his ) and his original are in different universe so now he is reverting on that ? He is not expert on that I would say, he is changing his mind so fast that you can't even decide what is true and what is false. Darth maul was cut in half but according to lucas he lives in his star wars clone wars, animated series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Lucas also stated that books, all other stuff ( not his ) and his original are in different universe so now he is reverting on that ? He is not expert on that I would say, he is changing his mind so fast that you can't even decide what is true and what is false. Darth maul was cut in half but according to lucas he lives in his star wars clone wars, animated series. You are mistaken, there is his own universe and another universe: the Expanded Universe which is everything in Lucas' universe, and which follows the same 'Word of God' statements that his own universe goes by, Leland Chee has confirmed all of this multiple times in his blog. It's basically his universe with everything else thrown on, that is the only difference. Also, terrible example, he is cut in half never states dies now he has a cybernetic lower body, just like he does in the EU later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipce Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Exar Kun, up until our SWTOR era. He had incredible powers and much more potential- and he was the chosen one ny those ancient lords. Their heir and successor to the sith dynasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sewerus Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 You are mistaken, there is his own universe and another universe: the Expanded Universe which is everything in Lucas' universe, and which follows the same 'Word of God' statements that his own universe goes by, Leland Chee has confirmed all of this multiple times in his blog. It's basically his universe with everything else thrown on, that is the only difference. Also, terrible example, he is cut in half never states dies now he has a cybernetic lower body, just like he does in the EU later on. Oh come on, you treat him like he was a god or something, he is only doing this to protect his films and nothing more, blizz also changed many times lore, and I know people who said that that is bs and belive in different universe. For me that is not logical that the new jedi order or legacy era jedi should be powerful then the old order and ancient sith. He said old republic doesn't matter since they are weak fools and I say it is the other way around. You say it is cannon but I say it is his cannon not my cannon. For me at least, if you want to master something you need to learn,learn and learn and not just come learn everything if you were a genius or something. An example is revan here, since he was raised as a jedi, from a little boy, he learned all his life to be a jedi. Not something like that, I spend my whole life a farm boy then some years in a jedi master, and now I am master jedi who can defeat anyone, even people who was training for they entire lifetime. It is just silly. He could be talented, but you know how talent work. If you have talent and work hard perfecting it, you won't be good at it. Even anakin spend like 10 years in jedi order before he became powerfull jedi. So he spend some time learning. I do not even understand why are you defending him, when he is making stupid decisions. He could be powerful for this time, but being powerfull for all time, with even undiscovered jedi/sith out there, this isn't even possible. That I think this is stupid and do not agree with it in 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sewerus Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 Luke has the potential of the chosen one, which helped him learn at a much faster pace then anyone else. Anakin was exactly the same way, he learned at a quick rate too. Remember Luke was also trained by Obi-Wan and Yoda, and trained himself. While yes he was fighting for the Rebellion, he still found time to train. Revan was also special, as were exar kun, as were naga sadow, marka ragnos etc. I could copy countless jedi/sith here, they were all special. I doubt he found much time to train and even if he did, I doubt he had as much training as revan, exar kun, Ulic Qel-Droma etc. And yet there were also very powerful jedi/sith and yet there he was suppose to be more powerful then any of them. I see no logic there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeutschGamer Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Oh come on, you treat him like he was a god or something, he is only doing this to protect his films and nothing more, blizz also changed many times lore, and I know people who said that that is bs and belive in different universe. Doesn't matter what his reasoning behind changing lore is, at the end of the day the IP is his and what he says goes for those that MATTER. Authors, artists, game designers etc have to go by what he considers canon and so his word is important, whether or not its disagreed on or not. All that said, I believe that the fanbase have their own right to canon as universes are only as fleshed out as fans allow. Its just that at the end of the day, there is little guarantee what they like to think of as canon will be carried by those that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) Revan was also special, as were exar kun, as were naga sadow, marka ragnos etc. I could copy countless jedi/sith here, they were all special. I doubt he found much time to train and even if he did, I doubt he had as much training as revan, exar kun, Ulic Qel-Droma etc. And yet there were also very powerful jedi/sith and yet there he was suppose to be more powerful then any of them. I see no logic there. He didn't need as much training as the rest of them, he learned faster and much quicker then any other before him. The fact that he got to jedi knight in 4 years flat, is an impressive feat since it usually takes over a decade. Edited April 24, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Oh come on, you treat him like he was a god or something, he is only doing this to protect his films and nothing more, blizz also changed many times lore, and I know people who said that that is bs and belive in different universe. For me that is not logical that the new jedi order or legacy era jedi should be powerful then the old order and ancient sith. He said old republic doesn't matter since they are weak fools and I say it is the other way around. You say it is cannon but I say it is his cannon not my cannon. For me at least, if you want to master something you need to learn,learn and learn and not just come learn everything if you were a genius or something. An example is revan here, since he was raised as a jedi, from a little boy, he learned all his life to be a jedi. Not something like that, I spend my whole life a farm boy then some years in a jedi master, and now I am master jedi who can defeat anyone, even people who was training for they entire lifetime. It is just silly. He could be talented, but you know how talent work. If you have talent and work hard perfecting it, you won't be good at it. Even anakin spend like 10 years in jedi order before he became powerfull jedi. So he spend some time learning. I do not even understand why are you defending him, when he is making stupid decisions. He could be powerful for this time, but being powerfull for all time, with even undiscovered jedi/sith out there, this isn't even possible. That I think this is stupid and do not agree with it in 100%. You still missed the point, it doesn't matter what you and/or I think of Lucas' control over his own IP, he has it and what he says goes, your opinion may differ to his, mine does to, but I don't matter and neither do you, Lucas does, because he IS the canon, he created it, then hired Chee to take care of it in his absence. Welcome to Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 You still missed the point, it doesn't matter what you and/or I think of Lucas' control over his own IP, he has it and what he says goes, your opinion may differ to his, mine does to, but I don't matter and neither do you, Lucas does, because he IS the canon, he created it, then hired Chee to take care of it in his absence. Welcome to Star Wars. Basically this. Its like the boot camp, you don't have to like what you're told, you just have to say "Yes sir" and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReiKai Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Clearly the Fans Matter. Because without us, guess what? Lucas has no money. If people didn't enjoy SW, there'd be no books, no more movies, everything would've been stunted. All of this wouldn't exist at all. You can claim "Lucas is God" all you like. Fact is, he doesn't Retcon anything. He just spouts his personal belief and that's all it'll ever be. All the work that's already been done proves that the PT Jedi aren't the strongest no matter what Lucas claims, it's gonna be nothing but Hyperbole because it's not supported by Evidence. He made a claim. That's it. That claim is proven false by all existing lore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Clearly the Fans Matter. Because without us, guess what? Lucas has no money. If people didn't enjoy SW, there'd be no books, no more movies, everything would've been stunted. All of this wouldn't exist at all. You can claim "Lucas is God" all you like. Fact is, he doesn't Retcon anything. He just spouts his personal belief and that's all it'll ever be. All the work that's already been done proves that the PT Jedi aren't the strongest no matter what Lucas claims, it's gonna be nothing but Hyperbole because it's not supported by Evidence. He made a claim. That's it. That claim is proven false by all existing lore. What gives evidence that the PT jedi aren't the strongest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 What gives evidence that the PT jedi aren't the strongest? I'd also like to see which Jedi Order was more powerful because between practically all the greatest practitioners of lightsaber forms ever, a 15,000 strong population, the canon most powerful Jedi until Luke, Grand Master Yoda, the demonstratively second greatest duellist of all time, Mace Windu and so many other statements I could make. I am not seeing this 'evidence' anywhere. Best part is, the Jedi Order in the prequels, couldn't even be defeated by actual war, and the Banite Sith knew it as well, they had to stretch out the order as thin as they could and then kill every one of them with massively overwhelming numbers, not to mention the fact the Sith had to cloud the Council's minds to even attempt it, and this was with the canon most powerful Sith Order ever seen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Omega Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 The Jedi during the prequal trilogy era had some of the strongest jedi of all time, yet they also had the weakest jedi of all time. I mean, c'mon, half the jedi were killed by a small pack of clone troopers following them, and the other half were killed by Anakin in the temple. Jedi are supposed to be able to sense danger, but yet all those that died by order 66 could not sense that their clone troopers were up to something, and even if they did they somehow stood no chance against like 5 or 6 of them. Thats weak. And you would think that Anakin would have been overwhelmed by fighting so many jedi at once...... but once again, they were weak. But when the jedi were strong, they were very strong. Like Yoda who was the Grand Master, Mace who was the best duelist of his time, Obi-wan who defeated Anakin, Anakin who was the Chosen one, and Qui-gon who discovered how to become one with the force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) The Jedi during the prequal trilogy era had some of the strongest jedi of all time, yet they also had the weakest jedi of all time. I mean, c'mon, half the jedi were killed by a small pack of clone troopers following them, and the other half were killed by Anakin in the temple. Jedi are supposed to be able to sense danger, but yet all those that died by order 66 could not sense that their clone troopers were up to something, and even if they did they somehow stood no chance against like 5 or 6 of them. Thats weak. And you would think that Anakin would have been overwhelmed by fighting so many jedi at once...... but once again, they were weak. But when the jedi were strong, they were very strong. Like Yoda who was the Grand Master, Mace who was the best duelist of his time, Obi-wan who defeated Anakin, Anakin who was the Chosen one, and Qui-gon who discovered how to become one with the force. The jedi were taken completely by surprise when Order 66 happened, sure they could sense danger but at that point they couldn't do anything about it. Mundi- Was more likely tired from the fighting already, leading his men and then turning around wondering what was going on. The moment they fired, he did defend himself and actually killed some of the clones but was still killed because of the rate of fire. Aayla- .......Ok I can give you her, just because she sensed something was wrong but took way too long in trying to do something. Plo Koon- He didn't really have time to do much of anything, since his wingmen opened fired and hit his ship dead on. One speederbike master(Can't remember the name)- Thinking "oh ok must have found something.." gets shot unable to do anything. ------------- Temple, now at the temple there were only a handful of masters. Rest of em, were padawans, some knights, and some younglings against a sith lord and an entire legion of clone troopers. Which an entire legion of clones was 10,580 so plus that with a sith lord they didn't really have any chance unless Anakin was killed and they could focus more on the clones rather then another force wielder. The masters didn't last long either against Anakin, the gatemaster was taken by surprise, Shaak Ti ran away, the holocron master was killed, three other masters were killed. The only one who was a threat to Anakin was Cin, but he was cut down so there goes that hope. Anakin was the X factor in the Temple raid, if it had just been the legion itself with Anakin still loyal to the jedi more then likely they would have been able to defeat the legion. Edited April 24, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sewerus Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 You still missed the point, it doesn't matter what you and/or I think of Lucas' control over his own IP, he has it and what he says goes, your opinion may differ to his, mine does to, but I don't matter and neither do you, Lucas does, because he IS the canon, he created it, then hired Chee to take care of it in his absence. Welcome to Star Wars. So no listen to star wars anymore since I think what lucas is telling is bs and I don't agree with him. That is his opinion, as said in post above, you do not agree with me, fine everyone have their opinion. I have vision and this how it stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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