Shinarika - Shadow Breaker [Ultimate Jedi Shadow/Sith Assassin Guide]

[Makk]

1100 is the new exp soft cap. You can easily get over 1240+ with WH gear.

 

I didn't realize there was a soft cap anymore (I thought it was a fairly linear growth).

[Boozed]

I'm really sorry about that.

 

1- No, I'm transferring set bonuses from WH gear. I get my bonuses.

2- Matrix Cube M7-R3 and BM Power Relic (Soon to be WH).

3- I suggest using it for FiB+Project combo. FP isn't as useful as it is compared to infil or KC, but still isn't bad. TK isn't a bad idea either, but I'd do FiB+Project for burst.

 

Thanks! Do the matrix cube and BM power relic activate simultaneously and stack? Or does activating one start a short cool down on the other like when you have two PvP relics equipped?

[Makk]

Matrix Cube doesn't have any temporary buffs that require activation, it just has permanent stats.

[Boozed]

Matrix Cube doesn't have any temporary buffs that require activation, it just has permanent stats.

 

Oops yeah just realized that after I posted!

[Skolops]

I didn't realize there was a soft cap anymore (I thought it was a fairly linear growth).

 

Yes, my understanding is that there is no longer any diminishing returns with exp. I'm fkairly certain of this.

[thismat]

Of course, these numbers are with CD's up. Currently, I buy the warzone expertise adrenals from other players because of their expense (okay, they dropped the price yesterday, but you need the commendations for other things currently).

 

In addition, I got this sweet thing few days ago:

 

http://www.torhead.com/item/3reRa9f/black-hole-strikers-mk-1-generator

Cost: 50 Black Hole Commendations

 

In comparison to the PvP (Force-Master) Offhand, it's really cheap and easy to get. Nice bonus to power / willpower.

 

Stupid question sorry. I've never done ANY PVE, where do these commendations come from? Black Talon only or?

[LessQQMorePewPew]

I'm really sorry about that.

 

1- No, I'm transferring set bonuses from WH gear. I get my bonuses.

2- Matrix Cube M7-R3 and BM Power Relic (Soon to be WH).

3- I suggest using it for FiB+Project combo. FP isn't as useful as it is compared to infil or KC, but still isn't bad. TK isn't a bad idea either, but I'd do FiB+Project for burst.

 

I would use BM and WH power relic personally. Bigger burst, more expertise, and theyre on seperate 20 sec CDs.

Edited April 25, 2012 by LessQQMorePewPew

[Skolops]

Well, I've done the math and with full and augmented BM gear OTHER than the two relics, which are champion, the matrix cube paired with the PvP power relic works out to be slightly better over a second PvP crit relic, even considering the potential gain from activating the relic.

 

Now, when I can add BM relics I will do the math again to see if that remains so.

 

As for min/maxing, it seems like the only real option is to swap out the enhancements, as I can't find any mods or armors which would be of benefit. It seems like the only enhancement which would help are the ones from the commando assault cannons. The medic cannon if you prefer crit, and the assault cannon if you prefer stacking power. Can anyone confirm that I haven't missed one somewhere which would also be good?

[alkhattabi]

1100 is the new exp soft cap. You can easily get over 1240+ with WH gear.

 

with a full WH we get 1234 exp if we used the black hole off hand which is a great add to power and willpower we will have 1121 exp and since 1100 is the soft cap we dont wanna get below 1100 exp am i right ?

[Skolops]

with a full WH we get 1234 exp if we used the black hole off hand which is a great add to power and willpower we will have 1121 exp and since 1100 is the soft cap we dont wanna get below 1100 exp am i right ?

 

But again, I believe that there is no soft cap since the patch. My understanding is that experience now scales without any diminishing returns. I will try to verify this.

[Moonheart_S]

I love your guides, Shinarika.

However, I would like to have the time to write a little guide to survival-geared KC shadow guide as I feel it's the only thing lacking in your video.

 

I agree with you that stalker-geared KC shadows are really good. However, I won't describe survival-geared KC shadows as inferior, just different.

They probably achieve lower scores on the board, and face a bit more of stalemates as their damage is about 25% inferior (according so some kick tests I made on dummies), but despite being only BM-geared, I just don't remember when I lost a 1vs1 fight for the last time unless I started the fight without force or CD and the additionnal survavibility of my survival gear and shield generator has some real advantages for teamplay.

 

It is perhaps not a way for people that like to kill opponents, since most of time you fail at killing anything but glasscanons, but it is a good way for people that like to protect spots and healers, which is also an important part of warzones.

[roestzwiebel]

But again, I believe that there is no soft cap since the patch. My understanding is that experience now scales without any diminishing returns. I will try to verify this.

 

There's nearly no DR anymore compared to it was before. But keep in mind that Expertise is a percentual bonus of your previously calculated damage. If this is "low" due to crap stats, 3% more Damage Bonus from Expertise are not worth anything.

 

My current spreadsheet calculations shows this expectation, too.. It's far away from being accurate (no power relic used, and no armor penetration / migtation from enemy included), but shows the rough direction.. These values are based on the given case your enemy is on the same expertise level. Only real tests will show the truth, but it takes some time to get the full gear

 

Example with Project:

 

Case 1 - My aimed High-End Gear with some mods changed (Battlemaster Mods / Enhancements) and PvP-Offhand:

 

Expertise Dam Bonus: 22,98626339%

Project Dam: 5143,851927 (CS Buffed, No Power Relic)

 

Case 2 - My aimed High-End Gear with some mods changed (Battlemaster Mods / Enhancements) and PvE-Blackhole-Offhand:

 

Expertise Dam Bonus: 21,39967309%

Project Dam: 5148,198334

 

Case 3 - Full Stalker T4 Gear, No Matrix Shard, No Mods changed

 

Expertise Dam Bonus: 24,48483835%

Project Dam: 4945,253612

 

As I said, it's theoratical and doesn't cover all things. The differences are not big, but you can see even if you lose the offhand's expertise, it should be a small bonus. I will let you know when I made the tests on live servers.

 

My main attempt was to give a hint that the PvE offhand is not hard to get and can be even a bonus while the PvP-Offhand is a big expense (For Infiltration/KC you need also the BM-ForceMaster Offhand to buy the new Item). So you can save your warzone commendations for other parts of your set

Edited April 26, 2012 by roestzwiebel

[Skolops]

There's nearly no DR anymore compared to it was before. But keep in mind that Expertise is a percentual bonus of your previously calculated damage. If this is "low" due to crap stats, 3% more Damage Bonus from Expertise are not worth anything.

 

My current spreadsheet calculations shows this expectation, too.. It's far away from being accurate (no power relic used, and no armor penetration / migtation from enemy included), but shows the rough direction.. These values are based on the given case your enemy is on the same expertise level. Only real tests will show the truth, but it takes some time to get the full gear

 

Example with Project:

 

Case 1 - My aimed High-End Gear with some mods changed (Battlemaster Mods / Enhancements) and PvP-Offhand:

 

Expertise Dam Bonus: 22,98626339%

Project Dam: 5143,851927 (CS Buffed, No Power Relic)

 

Case 2 - My aimed High-End Gear with some mods changed (Battlemaster Mods / Enhancements) and PvE-Blackhole-Offhand:

 

Expertise Dam Bonus: 21,39967309%

Project Dam: 5148,198334

 

Case 3 - Full Stalker T4 Gear, No Matrix Shard, No Mods changed

 

Expertise Dam Bonus: 24,48483835%

Project Dam: 4945,253612

 

As I said, it's theoratical and doesn't cover all things. The differences are not big, but you can see even if you lose the offhand's expertise, it should be a small bonus. I will let you know when I made the tests on live servers.

 

My main attempt was to give a hint that the PvE offhand is not hard to get and can be even a bonus while the PvP-Offhand is a big expense (For Infiltration/KC you need also the BM-ForceMaster Offhand to buy the new Item). So you can save your warzone commendations for other parts of your set

 

I would agree that sometimes, it is not going to matter. I did the math on using the matrix cube versus a PvP relic for my particular gear (fully augmented BM Stalker with the exception of the two relics). Currently, the Matrix Cube is better, but this may change with the Battlemaster relics as opposed to the Champion ones I have now, or for the War Hero relics.

 

An important note about the math, just to make sure you're doing it correctly for yourself as its a point I easily missed a few times before correcting it: you need to make sure that when you do the calculations for how the expertise differential is effecting things that you use your "less Exp More Willpower" expertise for you but that you use the additional expertise for them.

 

For example, in doing the math on the matrix cube, my own expertise damage boost was 22.04% with the cube, 22.71% with the PvP relic. In BOTH CASES, I need to use the fully Experienced 18.51% damage reduction stat for the enemy, NOT the 18.06% that I get with the Matrix cube, because the goal is to figure out the difference it makes to sacrifice that experience versus an equally geared opponent.

[roestzwiebel]

I would agree that sometimes, it is not going to matter. I did the math on using the matrix cube versus a PvP relic for my particular gear (fully augmented BM Stalker with the exception of the two relics). Currently, the Matrix Cube is better, but this may change with the Battlemaster relics as opposed to the Champion ones I have now, or for the War Hero relics.

 

An important note about the math, just to make sure you're doing it correctly for yourself as its a point I easily missed a few times before correcting it: you need to make sure that when you do the calculations for how the expertise differential is effecting things that you use your "less Exp More Willpower" expertise for you but that you use the additional expertise for them.

 

For example, in doing the math on the matrix cube, my own expertise damage boost was 22.04% with the cube, 22.71% with the PvP relic. In BOTH CASES, I need to use the fully Experienced 18.51% damage reduction stat for the enemy, NOT the 18.06% that I get with the Matrix cube, because the goal is to figure out the difference it makes to sacrifice that experience versus an equally geared opponent.

 

I agree to you And I keep these things in mind, you have to watch the difference between your expertise's damage bonus and the enemies expertise migtation. Also these calculations were made with old damage formulas (BW stated, they changed things internally). But from my current experiences (I even still have some Champion Mods with no expertise), I do more damage with my better stats. I had Full BM Set with nearly 1200 Expertise (Mod Reset with 1.2), and I had big damage problems with my beloved Infiltration Spec. Now, things are going in the right direction again..

 

Just wanted to say - Don't worry to sacrifice some expertise It's still not necessary to have max. expertise to be competitive.

Edited April 26, 2012 by roestzwiebel

[Skolops]

I agree to you And I keep these things in mind, you have to watch the difference between your expertise's damage bonus and the enemies expertise migtation. Also these calculations were made with old damage formulas (BW stated, they changed things internally). But from my current experiences (I even still have some Champion Mods with no expertise), I do more damage with my better stats. I had Full BM Set with nearly 1200 Expertise (Mod Reset with 1.2), and I had big damage problems with my beloved Infiltration Spec. Now, things are going in the right direction again..

 

Just wanted to say - Don't worry to sacrifice some expertise It's still not necessary to have max. expertise to be competitive.

 

By the way, I don't see anything approaching a 5k Project in testing. Are stacking a lot of power by any chance?

[roestzwiebel]

I'm still at work here in Germany, but I'll do some tests later. 5k-Medal against BM-geard people is possible for me in almost every warzone since 1.2 and my current gear. (830 Power Rakata Stim Buffed, slighlty above 800 Force Bonus Damage in my Character Window). Edited April 26, 2012 by roestzwiebel

[obi_don]

http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/expertise-breakfast-of-champions/

 

i recommend this post re the expertise gains. I think its far too early to pick a "magic" sweet spot

Edited April 26, 2012 by obi_don

[Xinika]

I love your guides, Shinarika.

However, I would like to have the time to write a little guide to survival-geared KC shadow guide as I feel it's the only thing lacking in your video.

 

I agree with you that stalker-geared KC shadows are really good. However, I won't describe survival-geared KC shadows as inferior, just different.

They probably achieve lower scores on the board, and face a bit more of stalemates as their damage is about 25% inferior (according so some kick tests I made on dummies), but despite being only BM-geared, I just don't remember when I lost a 1vs1 fight for the last time unless I started the fight without force or CD and the additionnal survavibility of my survival gear and shield generator has some real advantages for teamplay.

 

It is perhaps not a way for people that like to kill opponents, since most of time you fail at killing anything but glasscanons, but it is a good way for people that like to protect spots and healers, which is also an important part of warzones.

 

Interesting. I use survivor gear as KC more than I use Stalker gear to be blunt.

Usually I'm defending nodes or ball carrying. I would not recommend anything short of survivor gear.

 

I'm not fond of promoting 1v1 tutorials. I find it's rather unimportant in the large scale of how things truly play out and rather useless in true competitive PvP. 1v1 is very different from group play.

 

Not to mention, Survivor-geared KC is the same thing as a Stalker geared but only much more dependent on TK for their fights than Stalker-geared.

[aLLwOrLd_RB]

Shinarika,

 

Could you explain in a little more detail why you chose the resolve augment over the overkill augment? I saw somewhere where you noted that power was only good with Willpower. At which point do I stop prioritizing power for willpower?

[Skolops]

Shinarika,

 

Could you explain in a little more detail why you chose the resolve augment over the overkill augment? I saw somewhere where you noted that power was only good with Willpower. At which point do I stop prioritizing power for willpower?

 

Interesting question. I have all resolve augments. The only particular difference I can think of is that the resolve augments will increase damage and critical chance, whereas the power augments will increase only damage, but do so at a slightly higher rate.

[obi_don]

Shinarika,

 

Could you explain in a little more detail why you chose the resolve augment over the overkill augment? I saw somewhere where you noted that power was only good with Willpower. At which point do I stop prioritizing power for willpower?

 

Willpower> power

 

adds to crit as well as damage

Edited April 26, 2012 by obi_don

[Okema]

Very, very nice guide!

 

Thanks for that! Are you using the build you suggest in the video for Kinetic yourself? Since you said you do a lot of defending, did you keep kinetic ward in your build?

[Xinika]

Shinarika,

 

Could you explain in a little more detail why you chose the resolve augment over the overkill augment? I saw somewhere where you noted that power was only good with Willpower. At which point do I stop prioritizing power for willpower?

 

I explained this to someone else earlier and it is a valid question.

 

So for all intents and purposes, stacking Power is better than WP.

That's true.

 

However, Power vs WP in EQUAL amounts, WP wins. Power is only better in conjunction with WP. That is why all the mods you see me use is with WP/Power. Think of Power as an additional damage dealing stat, not necessarily your main stat.

[trakata]

Hey Shinarika, what are your thoughts on the proccable campaign relics? I was thinking of getting the Campaign Dark Radiance relic for an endurance and sustained damage boost for my tank. On the other hand the Shield Amplification gives a power increase and an absorption boost. What do you think? (I don't really want a burst increase as I'm more of a defensive player).

[aLLwOrLd_RB]

I explained this to someone else earlier and it is a valid question.

 

So for all intents and purposes, stacking Power is better than WP.

That's true.

 

However, Power vs WP in EQUAL amounts, WP wins. Power is only better in conjunction with WP. That is why all the mods you see me use is with WP/Power. Think of Power as an additional damage dealing stat, not necessarily your main stat.

 

That's awesome, thanks!!! I appreciate these vids and tutorials you make. You and Powerr are definitely great for our community!