Does anyone group in this game anymore?

[tloops]

I would group if there were more than 9 people on my server

[RowanThursday]

We're looking at several problems actually.

 

I don't really think any of them are Bioware's fault though. As many have pointed out- the reason Bioware designs the quests to make grouping *optional* is because they're aware that a significant amount of the playerbase either a) don't group, b) rarely group, or c) group sometimes but certainly don't want to have to group to progress their story.

 

Is that a problem? That's surely subjective.

 

One problem, though, is people whose response to not being able to find a group is to curse others for not wanting to group, and to take the stance that Bioware is wrong for giving them the option.

 

If your scenario is that you, Darth Bert, want to run Black Talon, and there are three other players nearby, all trying to do their class story. Now, Darth Bert the 'Everyone should group because its an MMO' player seems to have the attitude that all content should be harder, companions removed from the game, etc, so that those three players are forced to group up with Darth Bert, on a "We'll do black talon with you, if you then do our story missions with us" basis.

 

Problem here is... that's not going to happen, because Darth Bert's not always around, and those three players neither necessarily know, nor indeed *trust* Darth Bert, or each other. So... on finding it's *impossible* to do their class missions and advance their story without forming a group for a 'normal' quest... they'll log out, unsub, and go find a game with a more realistic difficulty level. Darth Bert, when he logs in, will still be left without a group for Black Talon.

 

A particularly over-zealous breed of Darth Bert, at this point, gets defensive and asserts "Good!"- taking the apparent view that, if a player isn't available/interested in grouping with him, then they're a waste of pixels and shouldn't be logged in "because it's an MMO!!!!", and that better they be gone, and someone who'll group with Darth Bert be logged in instead.

 

Ssso... basically, other people are only of value if you can use them for your own ends, if they're living their lives independently and you might actually have to act to make it worth their while to work with you- or alternatively show patience and wait till you encounter someone whose aims coincide with yours... then they're worthless?

 

Yes, there's a reason this player is Darth Bert.

 

As Darth Bert keeps moaning, populations are low. The fact that there are players logged in who aren't grouping with you does *not* in any way *prevent* players who might group with you from being online, so kindly don't blame other players for your inability to find a group, because the argument doesn't hold up.

 

Next up, server numbers/population sizes.

 

Again, this isn't really anybody's *fault*. There are good reasons to spread the population out- and those reasons are performance related. Again, remember that for a sizable number of players- "Is the game playable?" is a lot more of a deal-breaker than "Are there lots of other people around?" Other avatars... cause lag. We've probably all experienced freeze-ups caused by some other player doing something particularly graphically intensive in a crowd, and nobody wants to have to sit for ages in a server queue to be able to log in.

 

So... basically the choices would be a) push up the system requirements to levels that would alienate casual gamers (reduce subs massively) and still wouldn't help with server queues, b) make the game largely unplayable with a crawling FPS through a crowd on overpopulated servers (huge reduction in subs, huge increase in complaints), c) reduce the computer/bandwidth intensity of the game by a large degree just to make more 'room' for player/player interaction/graphical impact (reduce subs from everyone impressed with the look of the game/style/the voice over/cinematic conversations etc, and just satisfy the group MMOers), or d) spread things out to make the game playable, at the expense of making group-finding difficult.

 

I'm afraid that the truth is, whilst most of the people want to group *some* of the time, and that's *part* of the reason they play MMOs, the truth for probably a majority of players (i.e. a majority of subscriptions) is that 'being able to find other people to play with' is at a lower level on their 'requirements' list than a number of things that would be adversely affected if Bioware made some of the changes mooted in order to coax more people into grouping.

[Decembrist]

Yeah, same deal. Most of the time I skip Heroic missions on each planet, although now that I'm relatively high up in the tanking tree on my levelling character, I'm thinking of trying to solo some Heroics. But as far as player grouping goes, and as much as I would like it to happen through communication, I think that a group finding tool is needed.

 

For example, there is a Heroic mission that somebody wants to do, they could do something like "Call to arms", indicating which Heroic it is, which then shows up to all players on the planet as a little notification, saying player such and such wants to do this heroic mission, do you care to join him? With a short countdown to agree (like WZ queueing), for maybe 10-15 seconds, after which it automatically dissolves so that players don't get annoyed by them.

That would make that content much more accessible fr a lot of players.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Decembrist

[Bluerodian]

I haven't grouped since I started playing and probably won't group in the foreseeable future. I really have no need to as neither raiding nor PVP hold any appeal to me. So with neither need nor incentive, why group?

 

Also, the days of forced grouping a la EQ are long past. If Bioware were to suddenly ramp difficulty up in order to force grouping, then they might as well file preemptive bankruptcy at the money laden casuals bailing.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Bluerodian

[BayneD]

My thoughts on this have been touched on by others but I will paraphrase...

 

I haven't grouped with others as much as I normally would because the skill of the MMO community at large has taken a drastic downturn in recent years. Basic group dynamics, such as CC, watching threat level, and common courtesy, have fallen by the wayside. So much in fact, that it is now easier to accomplish group content with the least amount of competent players possible. Having anymore than that makes things more difficult to heal, or hold aggro, because some monkey is pulling mobs for the tank, hitting CC'ed mobs with splash damage, or going afk every 2 minutes.

 

TL;DR - Most people suck at group content. It's easier to do it by myself, or not at all.

Edited April 22, 2012 by BayneD

[rickyard]

I haven't grouped since I started playing and probably won't group in the foreseeable future. I really have no need to as neither raiding nor PVP hold any appeal to me. So with neither need nor incentive, why group?

 

Also, the days of forced grouping a la EQ are long past. If Bioware were to suddenly ramp difficulty up in order to force grouping, then they might as well file preemptive bankruptcy at the money laden casuals bailing.

 

But then, -i am not flaming-, what is really the point to pay a monthly? It is suposed to be a game where there are servers that allow you to have some data out of your computer to be stored in a server. The data you need is in your PC, any new content you need is downloaded everytime you start the game, you can't play with anyone as the interaction, due to wrong design, has gone nuts, you can't have houses neither harvesters neither ANYTHING that suggests that "you are there" while you are logged out (except the "clock" of your crew skills, could be anyway managed through your computer local time). So most times i think...

 

Why do I need a server? so, why do we pay for?

 

If we pay just for updates, it's been five months for 1.2 version. Tell me if there's been enough changes to justify the 60 dollars or so we have already spent. With that money we could have bought a new videogame that would sure have given us a lot more fun than replaying the same fp and quests.

[Darth_Urtani]

I can't get any groups. Especially on Taris (very few people) or Hammer Station (a lot of people on the fleet, but no one groups, the area is dead), etc

[Saltybill]

I get lots of groups for endgame dailies (and of course raids/fps) and even leveling you'll usually see people forming them.

 

maybe you should move to a more populated server.... like Iron Citadel!

[MMornard]

Then what's the point to pay monthly for a solo game?

 

Because I want KOTOR3 that keeps expanding and that I can play with my wife, and $15 a month is chump change.

[Bluerodian]

But then, -i am not flaming-, what is really the point to pay a monthly? It is suposed to be a game where there are servers that allow you to have some data out of your computer to be stored in a server. The data you need is in your PC, any new content you need is downloaded everytime you start the game, you can't play with anyone as the interaction, due to wrong design, has gone nuts, you can't have houses neither harvesters neither ANYTHING that suggests that "you are there" while you are logged out (except the "clock" of your crew skills, could be anyway managed through your computer local time). So most times i think...

 

Why do I need a server? so, why do we pay for?

 

If we pay just for updates, it's been five months for 1.2 version. Tell me if there's been enough changes to justify the 60 dollars or so we have already spent. With that money we could have bought a new videogame that would sure have given us a lot more fun than replaying the same fp and quests.

 

I'd rather not pay a monthly sub, but find me TOR without the monthly sub, all the updates on the same timetable, and as much support as the MMO TOR has and I'll be on my way. The game you speak of doesn't exist.

 

Now then, I don't group simply because I'm looking for a single player game. I've been an MMO player for years, but this is the first time I've found that I have neither need nor desire to group with anyone for anything. Thus far the beginning and end of any interaction I've had with another living person in this game is using the GTN. Beyond that, it's weird. I know it's an MMO, but one without any need to group up. Neither bad nor good, but just very different to what I'm accustomed to and I'm simply going to run with it.

 

It could also be that I've simply become less tolerant of people as my faith in humanity has waned to exactly nil in the past few years.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Bluerodian

[Captiosus]

Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

 

Grouping is a hallmark of the MMORPG genre. Just because there are people online at the same time should not classify something as an MMORPG when most of them are running around playing the game like any ordinary single player game.

 

If that's how people want to play it, fine. Sell the boxed game at $49.99 with no subscription fee. Bug fix patches are free. Content updates are $10-$25 each, depending on amount of content. Just like DLC. Because that's precisely what the single player folks want this game to be. A single player game with DLC. So let's model it like one.

[Bluerodian]

Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

 

Grouping is a hallmark of the MMORPG genre. Just because there are people online at the same time should not classify something as an MMORPG when most of them are running around playing the game like any ordinary single player game.

 

If that's how people want to play it, fine. Sell the boxed game at $49.99 with no subscription fee. Bug fix patches are free. Content updates are $10-$25 each, depending on amount of content. Just like DLC. Because that's precisely what the single player folks want this game to be. A single player game with DLC. So let's model it like one.

 

It would probably make considerably more money as well.

[GalacticKegger]

Group up? All the time. Cool was watching a Jedi knight chasing dark side points in their class quest dialogues.

[Catsmeat]

I am almost always grouped when playing. Sounds like the OP needs a better guild/friends list.

 

As far as pugs are concerned I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole these days. This has nothing to do with this or any game in particular, but rather with the gaming population as a whole these days.

[Marrond]

My thoughts on this have been touched on by others but I will paraphrase...

 

I haven't grouped with others as much as I normally would because the skill of the MMO community at large has taken a drastic downturn in recent years. Basic group dynamics, such as CC, watching threat level, and common courtesy, have fallen by the wayside. So much in fact, that it is now easier to accomplish group content with the least amount of competent players possible. Having anymore than that makes things more difficult to heal, or hold aggro, because some monkey is pulling mobs for the tank, hitting CC'ed mobs with splash damage, or going afk every 2 minutes.

 

TL;DR - Most people suck at group content. It's easier to do it by myself, or not at all.

Well I will fully agree with you, but hey, are you aware that if you don't help those people to play better they will never do that alone? I've met 3 days ago pack of charming newbies - we failed Heroic twice (yeah, since I'm farming DNA I have too much free ingame time) and after that I suggest them how should we deal with it because everyone seemed to hate Heroics at this point. CC 2, kill the other 2, avoiod AoE, go slowly step by step. And you know what? They're now killing machines in PvE content as far as I can see. Because now they know how to deal with the problem. You can't expect every player to be 10yrs veteran. But you can show them how to play, yet it requires alot of patience and willing to help.

[GalacticKegger]

Well I will fully agree with you, but hey, are you aware that if you don't help those people to play better they will never do that alone? I've met 3 days ago pack of charming newbies - we failed Heroic twice (yeah, since I'm farming DNA I have too much free ingame time) and after that I suggest them how should we deal with it because everyone seemed to hate Heroics at this point. CC 2, kill the other 2, avoiod AoE, go slowly step by step. And you know what? They're now killing machines in PvE content as far as I can see. Because now they know how to deal with the problem. You can't expect every player to be 10yrs veteran. But you can show them how to play, yet it requires alot of patience and willing to help.

More of this!

[Carambole]

The question we should ask is if Swtor does indeed have a High Population, what kind of shard technique is being used due to the fact there are only 200 peeps at any given time per place.

 

Also if you do the work by making up your mind to spam general on planets, say once or twice then Instantly move on and keep doing what you were going to do you will get a group 60% of the time. But that means you worked for it. Can you be arsed? I do that.

 

The 3rd important question is why the community AND players have given up on Flashpoint instancing. They have since 2 weeks ago. Why?

 

I managed to get a group going for D7 as a tank and did the whole thing on normal. Excellent run with bio breaks, drinks and smoke breaks.

[Sanxxx]

Call it a design fault.

 

The playerbase demand a solo friendly game so BW design it so that you can get to 50 without ever grouping, however at 50 it's designed such that progression (PVE) can only be made through grouping.

[Bloodstealer]

You can lead a horse to water...

 

Times have changed and many MMO players for numerous reasons just aren't interested in grouping. Gone are the days when it was imperative for "survival". So, now it seems best to find a good guild of like-minded people and group up with them.

 

I think thats garbage personally... If the proper tools were in game in which to promote grouping it would be alot more popular, especially for HM, etc... instead you have to whine HJJJEEELLLLPPPP MEEEE in general chat until your fingers drop off... sure on a few of the more populated servers where there are healthy guilds, and healthy population curves the grping side of things is easier... on most other servers your kinda forced to run it solo (which tbh I think this game was really designed for anyway) or you play a waiting game.

 

Try getting an Ops grp or such to run the 3 event World Bosses on Colonel Tobin server... it could literally takes the whole length of the event itself to almost fill it....

 

Plain and simple imo the game was designed to be nothing more than a SPRPG with some co-op, and thats how its pretty much functioning .... if it was supposed to promote MMORPG in any way shape or form then the tools would of been there from the launch... and if BW didnt see the need for such tools then they didnt do a very good job at looking at the MMO's already out there over the last 5 yrs and how it has evolved over that time....

 

So with a heavy (and quite decent, I add) story based game the need for groups has been limited for gear grinding from HM / NM stuff and out of balance PVP Wz's... where your grouping is done for you rather than you building it... rated WZ's will be fun to see how that unfolds... im not entirely hopeful tbh tho

Edited April 22, 2012 by Bloodstealer

[Carambole]

I think thats garbage personally... If the proper tools were in game in which to promote grouping it would be alot more popular, especially for HM, etc... instead you have to whine HJJJEEELLLLPPPP MEEEE in general chat until your fingers drop off... sure on a few of the more populated servers where there are healthy guilds, and healthy population curves the grping side of things is easier... on most other servers your kinda forced to run it solo (which tbh I think this game was really designed for anyway) or you play a waiting game.

 

Try getting an Ops grp or such to run the 3 event World Bosses on Colonel Tobin server... it could literally takes the whole length of the event itself to almost fill it....

 

Plain and simple imo the game was designed to be nothing more than a SPRPG with some co-op, and thats how its pretty much functioning .... if it was supposed to promote MMORPG in any way shape or form then the tools would of been there from the launch... and if BW didnt see the need for such tools then they didnt do a very good job at looking at the MMO's already out there over the last 5 yrs and how it has evolved over that time....

 

So with a heavy (and quite decent, I add) story based game the need for groups has been limited for gear grinding from HM / NM stuff and out of balance PVP Wz's... where your grouping is done for you rather than you building it... rated WZ's will be fun to see how that unfolds... im not entirely hopeful tbh tho

 

Exellent posts. They just rolled out a patch but I do think they have plans for a Looking for Group tool.

 

The Eerie thing here we are touching on is that we are saying most SwtoR players are Solo players. If I correctly remember my first TRUE mmo was WoW.

 

I am an anti social being due to the fact of being single. But man did we rack up a few good groups for raids, dungeons and what not. As I said "Eerie"...

 

I problem that might have scared even myself is that people became socialites 2006+. Then everyone started screaming for Ventrilo and Teamspeak which divided us even further. Think of an arrow ------> which splits up into 2 arrows and so on.

 

I would boldly state 90% of MMO gamers are socialites BUT on their own single terms lol, confusing.

[Distracted]

Everyone isn't like that. Should everyone be punished for the crime of one?

 

Actually, most people are like that.

[Othehto]

1. I play MMOs because by their nature; I want a world in which there are thinking (and yes a few nonthinking) human beings to interact and play with. If i want a solo RPG I have myraids to choose from; Skyrim, DA, etc.

 

2. I want to explore all of the available content. I enjoy what some of the flashpoints and heroic content brings to the game from lore, immersion, accomplishment standpoint. However the game is not conducive to achieving this. It is a combination of ease of levelling through companions; ability to bypass content; no keying/requirements to pursue higher objectives; server vacancy; and general apathy of the playerbase.

 

A game without a social element becomes just like every other solo RPG. It will be devoured and consumed by the masses. Without a social element to keep players together they will move on like locusts to the next shiny field of play; carrying their complaints and gripes with them.

 

EQ had hell levels; disgusting long treks to obscure locations; zone break ins; lost gear; spawn camping; and trains. However we played that game for ages. WoW eased much of the struggle but grew the content; it only started to fail when it put in place tools which made the world seem more barren and eased the reliance on your fellow players. LFG tools/dungeon finders; phased questing lead to a world where you never had to set foot outside of the cities. People became nothing more than a means to an end and reputation had zero meaning since you could always just queue with the next group of strangers and accomplish your goals. Levelling became less signficant; the need for a social structure deteriorated and content was consumed much quicker to the point of becoming trivialized.

 

SWTOR has taken it one step further and we are seeing the results.

 

When I CANNOT play the game; I cease playing the game.. that is where I am at now.

 

I recently joined a guild of decent people; however they have their eyes on the horizon for the next game because even with a social aspect filled; the challenge is missing. There is no accomplishment in the victories; there is no pain to make the rewards seem that more worthwhile. No cheers at the end of a boss fight. No feeling of accomplishment compared to that first 'Ding" from those years ago.

[DieAlteHexe]

1. I play MMOs because by their nature; I want a world in which there are thinking (and yes a few nonthinking) human beings to interact and play with. If i want a solo RPG I have myraids to choose from; Skyrim, DA, etc.

 

2. I want to explore all of the available content. I enjoy what some of the flashpoints and heroic content brings to the game from lore, immersion, accomplishment standpoint. However the game is not conducive to achieving this. It is a combination of ease of levelling through companions; ability to bypass content; no keying/requirements to pursue higher objectives; server vacancy; and general apathy of the playerbase.

 

A game without a social element becomes just like every other solo RPG. It will be devoured and consumed by the masses. Without a social element to keep players together they will move on like locusts to the next shiny field of play; carrying their complaints and gripes with them.

 

EQ had hell levels; disgusting long treks to obscure locations; zone break ins; lost gear; spawn camping; and trains. However we played that game for ages. WoW eased much of the struggle but grew the content; it only started to fail when it put in place tools which made the world seem more barren and eased the reliance on your fellow players. LFG tools/dungeon finders; phased questing lead to a world where you never had to set foot outside of the cities. People became nothing more than a means to an end and reputation had zero meaning since you could always just queue with the next group of strangers and accomplish your goals. Levelling became less signficant; the need for a social structure deteriorated and content was consumed much quicker to the point of becoming trivialized.

 

SWTOR has taken it one step further and we are seeing the results.

 

When I CANNOT play the game; I cease playing the game.. that is where I am at now.

 

I recently joined a guild of decent people; however they have their eyes on the horizon for the next game because even with a social aspect filled; the challenge is missing. There is no accomplishment in the victories; there is no pain to make the rewards seem that more worthwhile. No cheers at the end of a boss fight. No feeling of accomplishment compared to that first 'Ding" from those years ago.

 

That post made me feel a big ol' twinge of nostalgia. I'm not one who particularly wants to go back there but you did bring back some lovely memories and for that...thanks!

[Dria]

Signed.......A frustrated player.

 

• Friends
  
• Guild people
  
• Random groups that you make
  

 

I never had a problem - could be because:

A: I am in a guild

B: I did either made a group or found a group

C: I have RL friends who play also

[imanujakku]

I do like SWToR technically speakingi think its one of the better MMOs ever but its missing the community building aspects that WoW had.

 

Community is built when people are forced to group to advance, waiting for zeppelins, crowded around the auction house, slogging across three zones to turn in a quest and fighting at tarren mill because you hate the other faction etc. Its not built soloing through story missions with AI companions, flying around in a personal ship no one else can enter, questing on planets where the factions are divided into zones so there is little to no chance of world pvp.

 

community is built when you accomplish things you could not accomplish on your own with other people. Its not built establishing a legacy tree with your own alternate characters.

 

on the other hand. the community that is playing is impatient, entitled, whiny and melodramatic so its not entirely the games fault.

 

im playing out my 6 month sub and then see where the community is at. if its better i might stick around if not ill try something different.