Medics are broken beyond repair. The game is no longer fun.

[Angelfeeties]

Healers are still critical on any team.

 

On Anchorhead the imps always have 1-3 healers per game while the reps always have 0-1. If DPS were king, as you all say, then the reps would constantly roll the imperials. That simply isn't true.

 

Once a good imp team (or any team) with heales take a point on a map, they basically hold it indefinitely.

 

I think the biggest change for people to accept is that a single healer can no longer keep themselves alive, while running and keeping multiple teamates alive. You have to strategically pick your targets and battles, just like any other player.

 

You are equating FUN with being able to stay alive indefinitely and keep everyone else alive.

 

This.

 

Ancard, the reason you had so much fun before is because healers were extremely difficult to take down. On my server, in pre-1.2, warzones became a game of who had the better (or more) healers. They desperately needed to be toned down. A healer that can stand alone and tank a DPS indefinitely was not an ideal PVP system. Healers are meant to be powerful when they are supported, not immortal. They are meant to increase the survivability of their team mates, not turn the battle into a 4-minute session of bashing your head against brick walls, where whoever kills a healer first wins the rest of the war.

 

This is what 1.1.5 became for 80% of the games on my server.

 

http://i.imgur.com/HXGJI.jpg

 

No thanks.

[Owynyo]

Obviously in a one v one situation in which you quoted a part of my reply, it would mean no taunt/guard lol

 

But since you brought that up ( which I wasn't talking about ), that is all fine and good in premades, but not everyone does premades, could be for any number of reasons, but when you do solo queue you can forget guards and stuff most of the time and you get little help.

 

You can't nerf based on just premades or because of class/spec warzone make up, premades and solo play is very very different.

 

You still see comments asking for healers to be nerfed because a wz had 4 or 5 healers, don't people realise that the problem does not lay at the class being op, but at the class/spec make up for warzones

 

Fix the warzones, not the class that was fine already

 

No game can be balanced around 1v1. That's a fact we all have to live with. I highly suggest you look for a premade. We're having a blast in warzones. I don't think I would play this game if it weren't for my guildies.

[Zerogates]

http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy51/Gatester/Screenshot_2012-04-21_19_57_45_789207.jpg

 

My merc in pre-50 warzone...should I be doing better than that? BTW 1.2 patch increased how well a merc heals teams.

[unicornfive]

I cant understand why healers whine.

 

Just because an undying mara can jump on u, burst you with his insane high dps while having healing debuff on you?

 

Well, u DESERVE it for playing something else beyond marauder!

Its not hard to logout and create a mara by yourself...

9/10 ppl done it.

Edited April 22, 2012 by unicornfive

[cerberias]

People saying good healers are still great, yet bad healers are getting destroyed - but bad dps can faceroll a bad healer, and put up a hard fight for a good healer. A good dps pre 1.2 could lock out a good healer, a bad dps would get owned by a good healer, and a good dps could destroy a bad healer. Surely pre patch was more balanced as opposed to making bad dps = good healer.

[Chanamel]

OP is right, IMO. We didn't just get hit with the nerf bat, we got it shoved inside us.

 

Our healing while mobile sucks. Our group healing still sucks. Our regen really sucks now. We have no HoTs. Our slightly stronger single target throughput can't compensate for all that.

 

The idea that we could just stand there and heal a group while being beat on pre 1.2 is nonsense. 1v1 against legit guildies, I needed to heal myself with almost no time for damage or I'd slip to around 50% health and get put in a CC+burst damage situation and be taken down.

[Syylara]

This.

 

Ancard, the reason you had so much fun before is because healers were extremely difficult to take down. On my server, in pre-1.2, warzones became a game of who had the better (or more) healers. They desperately needed to be toned down. A healer that can stand alone and tank a DPS indefinitely was not an ideal PVP system. Healers are meant to be powerful when they are supported, not immortal. They are meant to increase the survivability of their team mates, not turn the battle into a 4-minute session of bashing your head against brick walls, where whoever kills a healer first wins the rest of the war.

 

Actually in my experience, if a team had more than 2 healers, they lacked the DPS to get objectives completed.

 

A healer should absolutely be able to survive one DPS assaulting them. If the DPSer is using all of their resources to dish out damage and the healer is using all of their resources to maintain health, it should come out a wash. Insisting other players should be reliant on outside help when you require none of your own is not balance, sorry.

 

The situation now is one where "preventative healing" reigns supreme. The concept is that you can actually increase survivability more through removing incoming DPS faster with your own DPS than you can by bringing a healer and babysitting them.

 

This is what 1.1.5 became for 80% of the games on my server.

 

http://i.imgur.com/HXGJI.jpg

 

No thanks.

 

If I'm reading that right, the other team had more total healing output, yet your team still won.

 

Which entirely invalidates your own point.

 

Also, one screen shot doesn't remotely prove that "80% of games" went this way. Your anecdotal experience is countered by mine where I was either the only healer or there was one other in 80% of my games. Again, having 3 or more in the same match was usually an instant signal to me that we should expect a loss as we would not be able to kill enemies fast enough before the first to die had respawned and returned to prevent captures/plants.

[RoyFokker]

lololol

You either play a mara or a sin as you main. Don't try and deny it.

 

I play multiple characters. I have 3 50's and a 4th on the way. I can kill them on any of the characters.

 

.....

 

Truth hurts?

 

Translation: please don't nerf us... please don't nerf us....

 

Translation: I don't know how to fight the class so I'm trying to hide my ignorance in finger pointing and whining.

 

 

Yeah it's kinda sad that heals are broken this patch, and dps is king. 1v1 any class with significant defensive cd's will trump any other class. Seems like marauders and tank sins are top classes right now.

 

I feel pretty bad for healers.

 

And yet my guildies consistently keep me and themselves up. Healers just no longer get to double as tanks shrugging off 4 people pounding their face in while healing the rest of the team.

[Syylara]

Healers just no longer get to double as tanks shrugging off 4 people pounding their face in while healing the rest of the team.

 

I want to meet these 4 people so I can give them their signs.

[ChemicalRider]

The game balance is broken now – that’s fact. I think I’m not a newb. Before 1.2 I was playing hybrid commando heal/dps – and yes, that build was OP… but it was OP vs. noob and total idiots. If I was fighting back then warriors/powertechs and some other classes it was fair fights were the most important thing was player skill and knowledge – it was really fun, even if I was losing. After 1.2 there is no fun, no skill, if someone have better class he will win. If I see that Sith Warror is hitting me (I’m full BM) for 4500 dmg while I have shield on, that is not right. When I see Powertech killing me in 3-4 sec. spamming two skills and I can’t over heal his dmg – that’s not right.

After playing ~week on warzone I came to one conclusion after 1.2 – if u want to win a warzone u need to have more Sith Warriors/Jedi Knights.

If I will have enough patience I will reroll on shadow now.

[germil]

Considering our nerf, + overall decrease of time to kill + the increasing number of more powerfull melee DPS (which means more interupts and easier focus fire) makes our like quite difficult. Maybe it is still balanced whith good team coordination and healer protection, but rigth now, in pugs, even againts pugs it is not the case, and is very frustrating.

 

The problem here is not actually our nerfed healing throughput, but more the fact that burst is just too high.

[Zerogates]

The more I read these threads the more I think "I really should be a healer more than anything else." Most of the complaints are due to team failures, the rest are due to individual failures.

 

If you can't take a little pressure when having to heal then reroll your healers and go DPS or one of those FOTM classes. I can handle the pressure, I can put out 300k+ healing while being targeted, having to kite, having to use CC's, and actually relying on my team to protect me. The benefit of a good healer is more than a DPS and even more than what my assassin can do in any warzone, and if it is a little difficult well I think that is ok because I can literally turn the tide of a fight.

[JustTray]

If you're not a healer, you shouldnt be posting your meaningless opinions in here.

 

You LITERALLY don't get it. You know you don't get it, so don't come and tell people it's a L2P issue or a teamwork issue. First of all, those aren't valid arguments to begin with. It's what a child says when they're mad.

 

Second of all, if you want to know how bad it is, because you really don't understand, TRY IT. Go roll a merc/commando healer. Come back to us with your personal results. 99% of the population that plays them thinks its a dead spec and that healers in general are in a terrible place. I'm sure you're the paragon everyone has been looking for to bring us out of these dark days with your flawless play. Now prove it. We'll wait.

[hulkweazel]

Realizing my team was capping the turret the operative broke off his pursuit: however; the marauder continued to follow. Knowing my trooper has no escape mechanics I begin to engage the marauder 1 v 1. Using my knock back and my one CC i manage to heal back my health and throw out a little DPS in between. Then the ultimate slap by BIoware occurred. While applying considerable DPS to me he began to self heal the damage i did to him faster than I was able to heal myself. Then my heals slowly became less and less effective as he continued to dish out unlimited DPS through my heavy BM armor.

 

So as it stands after the release of patch 1.2 in a 1 v 1 fight a marauder can out heal a commando medic in full BM gear and no one at Bioware sees a problem with this. If a DPS class can out heal a healer while doing DPS to them a healing class should at least be able to DPS them when healing themselves. It would only be fair.

You believe troopers have no escape skills but use their Aoe knockback and stun?

 

Seems the problem isn't the class but the person behind it. Learn to use your escape skills properly and learn that the game isn't balanced for 1v1s.

[Blistrich]

I am not being snide here, and if it comes off as such then believe me that isn't my intention, but Mr. OP, it seems as though you're generalizing the entire class as broken, unplayable and therefore not fun because you ran into a specific situation in PvP involving a strong class that was obviously well handled by the player. The rest of your story sounds like you were on fire doing what the spec does best.

 

I'm surprised at this gripe from healers in SWTOR, because I thought it was to be taken for granted that healers a) do not excel in 1v1, because if they did, they would be epically overpowered considering their primary responsability in both PvP and PvE is to keep others alive... and b) die a lot.

 

Frankly, sir, from what I hear, they are still fantastic healers if you know what you're doing. If you are turned off by the fact that when you get focused by a combo of superior combat classes, or isolated in 1v1 by one of them, that you die a great deal (yes, while taking damage from someone who is simultaneously out-healing you), then you shouldn't be a healer in mmos, because these things really are to be taken for granted - it is the sacrifice you make as a healer in order to fill (and keep filling) that key role, which in many situations is an absolute game-changer.

 

I know your original post contains an "example" only, but also, don't be discouraged (or ever over-think) isolated incidents. Were your healing numbers on target? Did you give your side an amazing edge in other situations? Is it, not unlike poker, an exercise in remembering both your worst beats and your biggest wins?

Edited April 23, 2012 by Blistrich

[NeverRose]

Very good post OP without unecessary whine and actual thought process during WZ. That's how

I feel about my commando alt.

 

 

It was a nice read.

[doppleprophet]

I would say you have one issue here. If he is healing it is because his dots are critting on you. guess what, they are physical based and you as a healer can remove them. This isn't the greatest solution because they can put them up faster then we can remove them since our cure is on a 5 Sec CD. but if you see a stack of three and cleanse mara or sent dps goes down dramatically. As does their ability to heal because they have to reapply them. So I can't say if mando heals are that much weaker but with your defensive CD it should be easier for u. A good mars will kill you eventually but this will help a lot and annoys them to no end.

Good tip.

[arnieasada]

Good tip.

the heals are a little bit weaker but, what alot of people are failing to see is its because of the change to expertise, Dps now does more damage than healers from it which makes sense, Im a commando healer i easily doo 300k+ heals every wz by BIGGEST gripe is that on days where the teams im on arent killing anything i get no medals, 8 medals is impossible for me like that ill do 500k+ heals and get 3 medals.... Its very frustrating.

[Pantheron]

I'd just like to say that I have both a sentinel and a commando. My sentinel is BM/war-gero geared while my commando healer is champion/recruit geared.

 

I must say that I have fun on both classes in WZs. Would just like to say that contrary to the OP, i meet healers I cannot kill. That being said, I don't suck etc. As already mentinoned in this post, sents/maurs are designed to be healer-killers. Why should we not be close to killing a healer when we have everything up? I mean, it's not like we can kill a player if that player is being spam-healed by a healer. We actually need to kill the healer. Which brings me to another point, PVP in SWTOR is designed for WZs. A good team will protect their healers, and healers will protect their teams. I often do pre-mades and we use TS/skype whatever and if a healer is getting focused we defend him/her.

 

I'm not saying the combat medic is perfect or as it should be, but please consider teamwork, skills, and gear to a certain degree.

[HotLeadSingerGuy]

People saying good healers are still great, yet bad healers are getting destroyed - but bad dps can faceroll a bad healer, and put up a hard fight for a good healer. A good dps pre 1.2 could lock out a good healer, a bad dps would get owned by a good healer, and a good dps could destroy a bad healer. Surely pre patch was more balanced as opposed to making bad dps = good healer.

 

Completely incorrect. The problem is that most of you don't understand the role a healer is supposed to have. This isn't WoW, where a healer can stand there and tank another player. The healers, in this game, are meant to be healers. They're not meant to be able to take a high amount of damage, or go toe-to-toe with another class. If a healer doesn't have support, he/she *should* die. One-on-one against a DPS, a healer should always be killed.

 

Sorry to ruffle your feathers, but that's the entire point of the class. If you want to do damage or take damage, roll a dps or tank. If you want to fill a specific role that's immensely helpful but can't do everything on its own, stay healer.

 

And yes, this is coming from someone who *IS* a healer, and has no problems at all with 1.2. I have a Shadow Tank and CM healer and feel that CM has been vastly improved upon with these changes. We were way OP before, and needed to be brought back in line with the class description.

[germil]

One-on-one against a DPS, a healer should always be killed.

 

OK so just put a dps on the healer, and he can"t do anything than trying to heal himself to delay the inevitable? So 0 contribution to the overall battle outcome.

 

Smart.

[Tangenobi]

Correction: The game is no longer fun for you cause your not overpowered anymore.

 

Then the alternative is to flock to the most played FoTm class which is one reason why classes grt nerfed in yhe first place

[Tangenobi]

No, they still aren't over-powered, you like so many others just don't know how to fight them.

 

**This and still many also dont know how to play them neither

[Tangenobi]

If you're not a healer, you shouldnt be posting your meaningless opinions in here.

 

You LITERALLY don't get it. You know you don't get it, so don't come and tell people it's a L2P issue or a teamwork issue. First of all, those aren't valid arguments to begin with. It's what a child says when they're mad.

 

Second of all, if you want to know how bad it is, because you really don't understand, TRY IT. Go roll a merc/commando healer. Come back to us with your personal results. 99% of the population that plays them thinks its a dead spec and that healers in general are in a terrible place. I'm sure you're the paragon everyone has been looking for to bring us out of these dark days with your flawless play. Now prove it. We'll wait.

 

Look at Hotleadsingerguys post about 5 or so threads down from your oost here as he/she is 100% correct...The main problem is PvP in this isnt about 1vs1 its a team effort. Now imma add more.

 

So if you as a healer is getting focused down its up to your teammates to counter. My guildie has a commando healer and does fine in wzs EXCEPT and only EXCEPT when his wz team plays poorly( which happens a ton in wzs due to everyone worrying about his/or her stats)

 

Now mind you I do believe that the nerf was a bit excessive , needed but a lil too much....Eliminate the 1vs1 mindset of alot of players in wzs insert more teamplay and ull notice a huge difference.

[rjavig]

If you're not a healer, you shouldnt be posting your meaningless opinions in here.

 

You LITERALLY don't get it. You know you don't get it, so don't come and tell people it's a L2P issue or a teamwork issue. First of all, those aren't valid arguments to begin with. It's what a child says when they're mad.

 

Second of all, if you want to know how bad it is, because you really don't understand, TRY IT. Go roll a merc/commando healer. Come back to us with your personal results. 99% of the population that plays them thinks its a dead spec and that healers in general are in a terrible place. I'm sure you're the paragon everyone has been looking for to bring us out of these dark days with your flawless play. Now prove it. We'll wait.

lol funny. I AM a level 50 commando medic healer with 4/5 rakata, rakata implants, ear piece, and rest columi items and i dont suck at all. At first i used to be such a complainer. I'd always say "omg bioware made my class suck i am never going to heal again because healing sucks as a commando" and i always said it 24/7 that is until i learned how to play my class. if you cant relearn your class and do it right im sorry you just dont have the capacity to play an mmo. Once i learned how to heal correctly, use my ammo when the right time it needed to be applied and when to use my free instant heal. also yes we were OP'd before 1.2 honestly healing was a joke in pvp and pve god i loved it because i had the easiest job. though the nerf was a bit overboard i wouldnt mind all they did except i have 2 problems. one is trauma probe should cost 1 ammo so we could have a bit more breathing room and the next one is instead of making super charge only good for giving one ammo back it should also have the effect were it recduces the ammo cost of med probe after adv probe is used so it would be like pre 1.2 when using scc med probe cost 1 after using adv probe but only during scc. also on another note for pvp if you dont know the common way things play out let me put it in simple terms. pvp is like rock paper scissors when it comes to 1 on 1 (saying both are smart players and around same gear for most part). a healer will always lose to a dps due to high damage output, a dps will always lose to a tank due to tanks high damage reduction and buffs to outlast the damage, and a tank will always lose to a healer due to the tank having low dps and the healer able to out heal it and dps at the same time. thats how it always is i have fought a dps with healer and of course got creamed and fought a tank and beat them pretty simple. when i was on my level 50 knight tank i could easily just buff when needed to and be able to kill them while having a lot of there damage reduced. also this is after 1.2 Edited April 24, 2012 by rjavig