Why non-stop alt leveling will fail.

[DieAlteHexe]

You're gonna LOVE your BH on Alderaan... just sayin'.

 

Excellent! Because he's going to be my focus now that the event is over. I want to get more active on the Empire side. Kind of need a break from my goody-two-shoes Jedi.

 

Thanks for giving me the nudge and now I can hardly wait 'til server up!

[Kirameki]

You're gonna LOVE your BH on Alderaan... just sayin'.

 

I loved my BH more on Taris being a total s.m.a.r.t.a.s.s against Thana Vesh. Ow all the pretty ways I was thinking about to nuke her....

Edited April 24, 2012 by Kirameki

[Boritoo]

I personally am playing 8 characters (one of every class) and levelling them and their crew skills (I quite like crafting) such that they all keep each other supplied with eveything they need.

[DieAlteHexe]

I personally am playing 8 characters (one of every class) and levelling them and their crew skills (I quite like crafting) such that they all keep each other supplied with eveything they need.

 

After getting over the initial "oh look, JEDI" and "ooooh, I can be a trooper" and "yaaaay stealth smuggler", I settled in to do just that. We're all contentedly cruising along, fully provided for at our levels with stuff. Then there's the ability to contribute to the guild and other players.

 

Is great fun!

[VegaPhone]

So basically, lets assume the majority are casual alt players, then how do regular MMO players fit in a SW MMO?

 

The made a single playing coop game play as an alt game, like WoW, as a big money/time sink, and put enough 'MMO' content to call it an MMO, and draw enough people in. However, WoW has balanced classes, and better open world pvp, so the crowd they attracted with all the hype: 'open world on illum, 'exploration', tripple A MMO expectations etc, to make them disappointed because its more of a single player game. edit: However exploration is done well enough, but it should be better imo, and one way to do that is have a lot more off the beaten paths with a lot more interesting creatures, camps with an alien culture (the holding by the hand to quest areas ruins this, and these areas dont need quests, and maybe just area quests, or special exploration bosses with codex rewards), and datacrons. Some of datacrons are insane to find, since you cant even see them when in a certain area to be attracted to them and they are not even in exploratory areas for an average explorer. They need more of a medium for datacrons as exploration, instead of sloppily making it insanely difficult to find and calling it exploration for some of the datacrons. So my point is it will require ingenuity to navigate (back track) to a certain datacron and it should be easily to identify in an obvious area, or still obvious from an off beaten path. Yes, some should should be for the ultra achiever, but more of a medium should be present in such a large MMO (land wise).

 

I digress, 1.2 is shaping up to be more of an MMO, but thats 4 months after it was released. And its still not fully phased properly.

 

For an MMO there has to be good combat, which does exist in swtor, but also has to be balanced... which does not exist.

So balance for combat is a fail, thats the first fail in swtor as an MMO. Which means dueling sucks, arenas will suck, and people who stack the right classes will win ranked, or even unranked. But for ranked where it matters more to get the rank that people want, they might be the wrong class, with the wrong AC, and wrong spec to play properly to win. So they are expected to reroll. Thats unprofessional, and not the right reason to reroll.

 

The other parts of an MMO which are important is the community. This is created not just with competitive pvp, but with an environment that stimulates that. So crafting, open world, and a lot of social activities, and end game multiplayer replay-ability.

 

Crafting was a big failure at release, so that hurt the community at end game. And it still is hurting when they pigeon hole pvp classes to use bio chem instead of other crafts and depend on other classes to benefit from them for a price.

 

Open world, is hurting, because the quests are too isolated, and open world pvp has not been implemented properly. (has potential, but that potential should have been realized when they were making an MMO with 300 million)

 

Social activities. This is a big fail by BW. They claim there is a social atmosphere, but that only exists from FP/WZ?events and collecting outfits, pets, cars, and other nice gadgets which requires the players to role play. Not all MMOers are RP'ers. They need more than an outfit and fluff stuff in a room for them to socialize. Where is the actual social activities like mini games, or otherwise the fluff stuff is simply customization and the social activity is chatting in a lobby with my avatar. Its so easy to implement and makes a big difference.

 

End game replay-ability is something general, which involves warzones, mini games in cantinas, traveling to different worlds for events, or to actually do the war-zone from the planet by going to an entrance to the warzone, open world pvp, crafting that requires people to travel, player housing and pvp etc.. Generally, its having a large mix of things to do that adds end game value and makes the game into an actual MMO.

 

They did not invest their 300 million to make the game into an MMO which they could have easily. But rather paid over paid Voice actors, and put a lot of in game cinematics, and expensive trailers for the game at the expense of developing a greater MMO, with better balancing as well for combat.

 

Swtor has potential, but its first flaw comes 1. the engine and what is should be able to do. 2. class balance.

 

Then after that, it should be all great. Them adding the expected content to the game... but thats after failing to make an MMO. Which is a terrible game plan by BW. In a competitive market, and with standards of what makes an MMO an MMO, they should have put more into making the game into an MMO. Also, it would make playing alts much better for people who already enjoy playing the end game, to play end game with a different style of combat, or story from a RP/lore sense.

Edited April 24, 2012 by VegaPhone

[JeramieCrowe]

So basically, lets assume the majority are casual alt players, then how do regular MMO players fit in a SW MMO?

 

Easy, I'm a hardcore alt player.

[DieAlteHexe]

Easy, I'm a hardcore alt player.

 

LOL!

 

I guess I am too.

[VegaPhone]

Easy, I'm a hardcore alt player.

 

So lets assume the majority are alt players. Fixed it for you.

 

But you could or could not be the majority.

 

However, the point is, an MMO is not to play alts, and if that is what ends up happening, then its only due to the illusion of an endgame to draw people.

 

I think that works when the genre is still new like at the time of WoW, or earlier, and simple things like being a nice quality 3D MMO, was something that was amazing. However, now people spend their time recreationally with so many different gaming titles single or multiplayer, and an example if someone were to recreate a game from 1970s with simple arcade features, then its value would be little, and expected to be free, and its only value would be peoples personal enjoyment. Call it being spoilt, or matching peoples expectations with current trends, but its a business and people are aware of the market. The existing market sets peoples expectations to like the game or not like the game based on that as well. Also since its a SW game, it requires from a business perspective to do the game justice and live up to expectations, and not be a free 1970s game that reserves the rights for a SW MMO. They decided to make an MMO, and a SW MMO, so they should live up to those expectations of an MMO.

Edited April 24, 2012 by VegaPhone

[JeramieCrowe]

However, the point is, an MMO is not to play alts...

 

Since when? I've played MMOs for over a decade, and alt playing has ALWAYS been encouraged...

Edited April 24, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[VegaPhone]

Since when? I've played MMOs for over a decade, and alt playing has ALWAYS been encouraged...

 

Not the sole purpose. After reading all that I have written, you did not get the hint I am talking about introducing more to the game other than playing alts?

 

Or do you like to take things out of context just to argue?

 

edit:

 

Also, it would make playing alts much better for people who already enjoy playing the end game, to play end game with a different style of combat, or story from a RP/lore sense.

 

The last thing i said, previously.

 

MMO sets a certain expectation. So when BW devs say as an MMO the end game is playing alts, thats 1. not reassuring 2. not what people expect.

 

Also playing alts would not be so bad if the quests were more dynamic for side quests. Like area quests to trigger an effect, but it triggers the quest giver runs in to give quest.

Edited April 24, 2012 by VegaPhone

[JeramieCrowe]

Not the sole purpose. After reading all that I have written, you did not get the hint I am talking about introducing more to the game other than playing alts?

 

Or do you like to take things out of context just to argue?

 

edit:

 

 

 

The last thing i said, previously.

 

MMO sets a certain expectation. So when you say as an MMO the end game is playing alts, thats 1. not reassuring 2. not what people expect.

 

Also playing alts would not be so bad if the quests were more dynamic for side quests. Like area quests to trigger an effect, but it triggers the quest giver runs in to give quest.

 

I haven't played an MMO yet, including TOR, where playing alts was all there was to do. TOR has more endgame for a 4 month old MMO than any other MMO at 4 months old. The only one that comes close is RIFT. Playing all 8 storylines is in ADDITION to TOR's endgame, not instead of.

Edited April 24, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[Zhiroc]

I've done Coruscant 6 times now (3 pre-release, 3 post), and Tython 5. I haven't spacebarred through any of the side quests. So far, I've only done 3 main classes. My next alt will probably redo a main class so that I can pick a different AC, but I might rethink that because of the legacy perks I'd get doing another class.

 

It's kinda funny hearing people say that the story questing is boring more than once through, and then they burn through the much more limited dailies and raids over and over again. I guess the point of the raid is simply the challenge, but eh, I haven't even done any FPs on my 50 past the Jedi Prisoner series. It's the endgame that's boring to me.

 

I can at least see why PvP devotees like it--each match is unique in a way. But I'll never PvP myself. I'm just not interested in competitive play, especially when such competition is based on gear-grinding more than skill.

[Kthx]

Bioware's main marketing strategy for promoting this game is based around the concept of leveling multiple alts in an attempt to "buy time" as you will. With that said, I have yet to meet a majority of persons more interested in leveling an alt than that of the populace that's more interested in achieving max level (quickly) and playing end game. I have heard time and time, again and again by unbiased players, that they're not concered with a story line, it's the end game that's the beginning of the game.

 

Since you are likely to hang out with like-minded players, I don't know why you would expect to be able to "meet a majority of persons." I have one level 50 main and three alts (one in the teens and two in the 30s). I really enjoy leveling up my alts, and swap back and forth between my main and them. So how is it that you think your style of game is representative?

Edited April 24, 2012 by Kthx

[ekwalizer]

There's a little problem with your math. When you level up alts, many of the quests are the same. You just fly through those without watching the story cuz you already know it. It is much faster to level up alts while enjoying the story than your formula assumes.

 

Spot on.

I have four level 50s on my main server, along with a 26 and a 22.

for some people the story is important. Just as important as end game.

 

The OP needs to realize that BW took a huge leap of faith with this game - recognizing that it would likely be a niche market. The power levelers and hardcore WoW raiders are already gone, what we are left with are people who actually, for the most part, like this game.

 

There is plenty of End Game content. I can't think of a single MMO five months post launch with so much to do. Our problem, is there are about five times the number of servers that there needs to be.

[Lekkarion]

I'll throw my 2 cents in,

 

I've been playing MMO's since Ultima Online, though I'll say I didn't really get into them till EQ. The vast majority of people who play MMO's will have an alt. The endgame crowd will usually have multiples. They know the group they play will will need Tanks and Healers in addition to the always more popular DPS classes. People roll alts to fill the gaps they need for their endgame content.

 

What bioware has done is made that less oppressive by giving that alt its own storyline. Even though I'm going to visit the same planets again as I level, the reason I'm doing it is different. For the most part, the planet quests tie in well with my Class quests so I don't have to do a bunch of back and forth. It allows me to level a little easier.

 

As for story, it's a fun thing to do while you level. It takes a little of the grind out of the game.

[Defdaddy]

I just leveled my 4th 50 and I got to say I'm getting sick of it myself I'm a casual gamer and only level alts because raiding is way to easy so the guild will do them in one night and with every boss droping so many items after doing a couple time noone needs any loot. And pvp ques take so long on my standard server that sitting in fleet for 10 to 20 minutes with nothing else to do is boring. I look at this game as single player with a few bad mmo options.

 

Having leveled 4 50's in 4 months DOES NOT MAKE YOU A CASUAL GAMER

[kevlarto]

Nice opinion, bro.

 

Yep and you know what they say about opinions..

 

I like how people post thier opinions as if it is fact and everyone must think that way../facepalm

[sharkfinsix]

And that's to build a character only to stop at 50, rinse and repeat. Why on earth would anyone in their right mind look forward to leveling something to max (Which is the main goal in the first place). Only to stop and do the same thing all over again ?

 

funny i thought the main goal is to have fun....and i am having fun, both doing endgame on my 50 merc, and running amok with 7 other alts. Mission accomplished!

[DieAlteHexe]

Not the sole purpose.....

 

For some...yes, it pretty much is.

 

Sorry, but that's the way of it.

 

Not that I object at all to more content being added...ever!

[Socialist]

I hate the whole end game context.

 

arrogant kids, boring raiding, equipment and arms race et al.

 

I much prefer rolling quite a bunch of alts, and hopefully when I am done, end game will be a better place.

 

 

I don't like PvP either, but still I am playing in a PvP server as the occasional random encounter with a republic player on the wilds is something interesting. Far better than Warzones.

[VegaPhone]

I haven't played an MMO yet, including TOR, where playing alts was all there was to do. TOR has more endgame for a 4 month old MMO than any other MMO at 4 months old. The only one that comes close is RIFT. Playing all 8 storylines is in ADDITION to TOR's endgame, not instead of.

 

You can call the end game in swtor great if you want. Great for you.

 

However, the problem for me if I am going to be specific at release:

 

1. Not enough Warzones, and no choice to choose

2. No legacy clarification or implementations

3. No Custom U.I.

4. In game voice chat (helps with pvp/raids especially with randoms and you can see which name is speaking in game)

5. Not enough alien races, strange ones, seen in game or playable

6. Day/night cycles

7. NPC movement/routine

8. Event closer to release

9. Mini games (pazaak, swoop racing which is multiplayer)

10. Open world pvp

11. Crafting that did not require people of the same craft to buy and use items

 

I did not mention other things like open world space pvp, housing, or the quantity. However the point is, to have at least a few of all these things which greatly add to the MMO to make it feel much more expansive.

 

You might disagree that this should be at release, but in design swtor was meant to have illum working with 100s of players against 100s of players.

 

At the end of the day its what sustains swtor. If I happen to be a minority, and swtor succeed despite the rough launch, and the people who were bitter about the short comings of swtor either come back, or dont care but over all swtor succeeds then good for them. They will probably succeed. However, being on a pvp server, and seeing many people leave from our own guild was very disappointing and affected the game as well.

 

However, some of the things I mentioned will be in the game eventually, and the fact they did not implement them from the beginning hurt the game on my server at least, and definitely hurt the experience when dealing with imbalances, limited crafting, and limited pvp experiences.

[Kthx]

I'm sure the fanboys will froth at the mouth and demand proof, but I have all the proof I need. I've re-rolled off of three dead servers and every person in my guild of 50+ people has quit. All of my real life friends have quit. That's the only proof I need.

 

I have never re-rolled and my guild is as active as ever (and we're on a Standard server). My anecdotal evidence just canceled your anecdotal evidence. Your move.

 

While you are it, please explain why 700,000 players would pay for a service they do not use.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Kthx

[JeramieCrowe]

You can call the end game in swtor great if you want. Great for you.

 

However, the problem for me if I am going to be specific at release:

 

1. Not enough Warzones, and no choice to choose

2. No legacy clarification or implementations

3. No Custom U.I.

4. In game voice chat (helps with pvp/raids especially with randoms and you can see which name is speaking in game)

5. Not enough alien races, strange ones, seen in game or playable

6. Day/night cycles

7. NPC movement/routine

8. Event closer to release

9. Mini games (pazaak, swoop racing which is multiplayer)

10. Open world pvp

11. Crafting that did not require people of the same craft to buy and use items

 

I did not mention other things like open world space pvp, housing, or the quantity. However the point is, to have at least a few of all these things which greatly add to the MMO to make it feel much more expansive.

 

You might disagree that this should be at release, but in design swtor was meant to have illum working with 100s of players against 100s of players.

 

At the end of the day its what sustains swtor. If I happen to be a minority, and swtor succeed despite the rough launch, and the people who were bitter about the short comings of swtor either come back, or dont care but over all swtor succeeds then good for them. They will probably succeed. However, being on a pvp server, and seeing many people leave from our own guild was very disappointing and affected the game as well.

 

However, some of the things I mentioned will be in the game eventually, and the fact they did not implement them from the beginning hurt the game on my server at least, and definitely hurt the experience when dealing with imbalances, limited crafting, and limited pvp experiences.

 

You know what they say: Wish in one hand, you-know-what in the other, see which fills up first.

 

Because there never has been an MMO that launched with everything you listed there. EVER. And all the MMOs on the horizon won't either.

 

People's expectations have gone from unrealistic to completely ludicrous. You're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

[JeramieCrowe]

50 cents a day lets you pick and choose what service you will avail yourself of.

 

I've actually met people who don't buy movies or books because they've seen them once, they're done. True story. They're out there.

 

However, the vast majority do buy movies and books. Why? To enjoy them again and again at their leisure. An MMO is no different. It also has a plot, storyline, climax and ending. To be enjoyed over and over again if you so wish.

 

The good thing is, with TOR, if you don't want to you don't have to. There's the typical endgame with just as much content at launch and being released since launch at a rate that almost exceeds RIFT, the MMO acclaimed for releasing more content in a short period of time after launch than any other MMO to date, including WoW.

Edited April 24, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[Socialist]

I have never re-rolled and my guild is as active as ever (and we're on a Standard server). My anecdotal evidence just canceled your anecdotal evidence. Your move.

 

While you are it, please explain why 700,000 players would pay for a service they do not use.

 

Well, given it costs ridicu-cheap/day I just keep subbed but only actually play often.