Do You want cross server LFG tool?

[DawnAskham]

1) It can if implimented correctly. eg: have player level bands or mission pickups so you can say "hey, you have mission, fp XYZ..."

 

2) Server merges do not admit defeat. since they have done this in FFXIV, subscriptions have gone up. Gameplay has increased for many.

 

3) Why would this only be temporary?

 

And why not a mix of all 3? I see no reason why this will not solve the initial complaint?

 

as for your example, since a certain game introduced the LFG tool, subscriptions have been lost.

 

Exibit A: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9SR0fMX9A1Y/TzRSJBao8aI/AAAAAAAAArg/pPpKmi65pXE/s640/diagram1%25283%2529.png

 

Ninja looting, a complaint from players themselves, exibit B: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2352185270

 

and exibit C, a more wordy example of exibit A: http://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forums/general-discussion/topics/LFG-in-other-games

 

There's your evidence

 

x

 

The delusion is strong with this one.

 

Anecdotal postings about people being idiots, dolts, greedy, rude or whatever DO NOT prove anything. And everything that you don't like that has happened in groups formed by LFG tools in other games ALREADY can and does happen in SWTOR (e.g. bad players, greedy loot whores, rude and obnoxious players).

 

Also as has been posted, subs in WoW went up post LFG and then dropped when no new meaningful content was added in over a year. I let my sub lapse at the point ICC had gone on for over six months, and it had nothing to do with LFG. In fact, if LFG didn't exist, I would have let my sub expire even sooner.

 

Since you seem to believe anecdotes and miscellaneous data points prove causation, I'll go ahead and state that LFG tools actually prolong subs based on the evidence of my experience, though I'll also concede that even LFG tools cannot prevent an eventual decline in subs if there is an absence of new content.

 

The one thing that can be proven is that a larger pool of players has a better chance of forming a group than a smaller pool of players. Limiting grouping tools to single servers limits the player pool, thus limits and slows the number of groups to be formed.

 

And mergers DO NOT solve the issue. As has been mentioned before, there will still be times of the day, week, month where there will not be enough players for certain factions or level bands to form a group on a single server, while there would be enough players to forum a group if all servers were part of the pool.

Edited April 23, 2012 by DawnAskham

[Desolatos]

Yes, if handled right I don't think that they are a bad thing. I don't think they destory communities as your real community is more your guild in my opinion. I don't think that PUGs are what make a servers community. As for nasty people in the groups, as long as there is a decent kicking system that becomes a pretty small issue and I don't think many people nowadays are that bad. Loot can also be handled on an individual basis rather than need before greed as is in LFR in Mists of Pandaria. As long a they give you reasons to play outside of instances such as world events I feel a cross server LFG tool will do little harm and plenty of good.

[Valkirus]

WoWs same server LFG was a POS. The interface sucked and the matching sucked. You were better off using it to find groups manually. Even then much like the tool we have now, it sucked and no one used it. They eventually brought back the global LFG channel to find groups the old fashioned way. It wasnt until cross-server that they finally made the matching work correctly and efficiently, it wasnt random dungeon until x-server, and it sure as hell didnt offer rewards (specially to the rarer roles) until cross server.

 

Just because it failed in WoW doesnt mean it will here. Only thing a same server needs is a well populated server, some incentive to actually do an FP more than once (ever), and a welcoming interface with efficient design that people will actually use! Only thing including an Xserver does is speed up the matching, which is all nice until its all turned into a "gogogo" "insta kick/replace for any stupid reason" "I can be a jerk, nothing will ever happen" "tanks are special snowflakes" "silent drone runs" ... we have going on in WoW.

 

And yes, the Xserver either started or greatly multiplied those behaviors. Going on my 4th 50 now and I have yet to be in a group that doesnt talk, a group that just wants to rush through everything (other than dialogue theyve seen 100 times AT END GAME), or a group that kicks someone for every tiny mistake because a new one will instantly replace and pop up right in front of the leader. Something thats BTW happening in WoW constantly ... so much so there is a new threads/posts about it every day (seems every day I check there are 2 new ones 1, 2).

 

Downplay it or ignore it all you want, the proof is all over that game. Making insta-gratification groups, porting them, and removing all accountability and consequence from their communities GREATLY devalues the grouping feature of an MMO.

 

The system WoW uses is not perfect. But it does what it is intended to do. Gets a lot of players involved in the end game content and rewards them with gear which in a little better than small grp content. Without it...there are a ton of players who would never get to experence the end game content. Lets look at before the LFR was introduced to WoW...the players who had experenced the last boss kill in WoW was less then 10%...with the new tool added ..that number has tripled.

 

For myself and many friends also..I am able do 6 charectors each week for the Deathwing raids. That is a total of 8 bosses for each class everyweek. Been doing that for months now. Some runs are failed ones..true..but those are so uncommon I have yet to get it done on any char before the week has ended. I come across a jerk in the runs I do..I place them on ignore and move on. Knowing I will never have to run with that player again.

 

The loot roll system does have some issues. But this is being changed and improved upon in the next expansion.

[Hyde_v]

No to a cross server LFG. Merge servers first and concentrate on server only first.

 

If cross server ever is used, I would hope that BioWare would institute a harsher punishment policy for those that misbehave while using it. Including your inability to use the LFG tool as part of your punishement.

[Capthxc]

Cross server non-ranked PvP

 

No cross server PvE

 

That's what I want. In order for PvE to actually work though the servers would have to be ironed out with decent populations, so i'd rather have this feature after they offer transfers and merges.

[mothear]

I agree. A same server LFG tool is going to fail on a low pop server. The cross server looking for grp tool was a huge success for say WoW. So much so Blizzard continues to expand it and the last few months added the Looking for Raid feature. In thier next expansion, it will include all 3 new raids. Now I ask you....why would a company continue to improve and expand upon a failed feature? Does not make it any sense. No matter what some may say on the forums, Blizzard is smart enough to look at thier own internal data to decide if a feature is failing or not.

 

Because their game is based on raiding and there is almost no other retention ability apart from the joke that is PvP arenas, unlike IMHO in SWTOR

[Datku]

love how the pvper's are saying no to cross server FP LFG but yes to cross server PvP. Whats the difference? Your focus maybe PvP and you see the need to cross server yet you refuse to give the same considerations to the PvE players.

[DarthTHC]

And yes, the Xserver either started or greatly multiplied those behaviors. Going on my 4th 50 now and I have yet to be in a group that doesnt talk, a group that just wants to rush through everything (other than dialogue theyve seen 100 times AT END GAME), or a group that kicks someone for every tiny mistake because a new one will instantly replace and pop up right in front of the leader. Something thats BTW happening in WoW constantly ... so much so there is a new threads/posts about it every day (seems every day I check there are 2 new ones 1, 2).

 

Downplay it or ignore it all you want, the proof is all over that game. Making insta-gratification groups, porting them, and removing all accountability and consequence from their communities GREATLY devalues the grouping feature of an MMO.

 

Going onto my 3rd 50, I lament the fact that even taking all characters into account, I have not been into all of the flashpoints yet.

 

I lament the fact that the two times I've gone into a group in which the group leader decided to roll NEED on everything, the only option the remaining 3 of us had was to drop group. Or keep going because groups are so damn hard to get.

 

I lament the fact that I've been forced to run some flashpoints twice because the group leader decided to kick me out after the last boss fight but before the flashpoint-ending event.

 

I lament the fact that I've been grouped up with tanks so fail that they charge ahead into battle without looking at the healer's focus or anyone's health... after being told not to repeatedly. I lament the fact that I've been grouped with DPS so fail that they often don't let the tank charge into battle before checking their health, because they do it instead... after being told not to repeatedly. I lament the fact that my only recourse in these cases was to drop group and go back to spamming general chat in hopes of finding another group sometime before I had to log out to go to bed so I could get enough sleep to do my job well the next day.

 

All these things have happened in this game.

 

I wonder, after having run thousands of X-LFG dungeons in WoW and the few flashpoints that I have run here, what this "accountability" looks like, that people who fear bad things happening in a game reference.

 

I wonder, after so much time wasted spamming chat channels for groups while being trapped on fleet if this is what a really crappy implementation of a lobby game feels like.

 

And I unsubscribed, telling BioWare clearly in the unsubscribe reason and subsequent survey, that my decision was 100% due to the frustration I experience trying to get a Flashpoint group.

[Mezla]

WoWs same server LFG was a POS. The interface sucked and the matching sucked. You were better off using it to find groups manually. Even then much like the tool we have now, it sucked and no one used it. They eventually brought back the global LFG channel to find groups the old fashioned way. It wasnt until cross-server that they finally made the matching work correctly and efficiently, it wasnt random dungeon until x-server, and it sure as hell didnt offer rewards (specially to the rarer roles) until cross server.

 

Just because it failed in WoW doesnt mean it will here. Only thing a same server needs is a well populated server, some incentive to actually do an FP more than once (ever), and a welcoming interface with efficient design that people will actually use! Only thing including an Xserver does is speed up the matching, which is all nice until its all turned into a "gogogo" "insta kick/replace for any stupid reason" "I can be a jerk, nothing will ever happen" "tanks are special snowflakes" "silent drone runs" ... we have going on in WoW.

 

And yes, the Xserver either started or greatly multiplied those behaviors. Going on my 4th 50 now and I have yet to be in a group that doesnt talk, a group that just wants to rush through everything (other than dialogue theyve seen 100 times AT END GAME), or a group that kicks someone for every tiny mistake because a new one will instantly replace and pop up right in front of the leader. Something thats BTW happening in WoW constantly ... so much so there is a new threads/posts about it every day (seems every day I check there are 2 new ones 1, 2).

 

Downplay it or ignore it all you want, the proof is all over that game. Making insta-gratification groups, porting them, and removing all accountability and consequence from their communities GREATLY devalues the grouping feature of an MMO.

 

Pretty much every single thing you posted is a complete lie. Blizzard never brought back global LFG channel.

[Drakkip]

I'd like to see some serious server merges... There are both sides of the LFG tool that I like dislike.

 

I'd rather it be all one world with instanced zones or to handle popultation lag. I like the idea of everyone being able to group with anyone. Some of the better players I played with on other games were on other servers. I think the idea of having specific servers is archaic.

 

Edit* I mean 1 pve, 1pvp, 1rp servers etc...

Edited April 23, 2012 by Drakkip

[DarthTHC]

I'd like to see some serious server merges... There are both sides of the LFG tool that I like dislike.

 

I'd rather it be all one world with instanced zones or to handle popultation lag. I like the idea of everyone being able to group with anyone. Some of the better players I played with on other games were on other servers. I think the idea of having specific servers is archaic.

 

Sometimes it's nice to wish for things that can never happen. The rest of us have a reality to live in, and some of us that are living there want to have a reasonable shot at doing a few flashpoints in between our commitments to our families and jobs.

[Drakkip]

Sometimes it's nice to wish for things that can never happen. The rest of us have a reality to live in, and some of us that are living there want to have a reasonable shot at doing a few flashpoints in between our commitments to our families and jobs.

 

Sever merges can never happen? Really?

[DarthTHC]

Sever merges can never happen? Really?

 

One server of each type can never happen in this game. *EDIT: Unless population drops far enough to support that, I suppose.

 

Server merges are so distant that they're irrelevant to the conversation.

 

Hey, I want to date Dina Meyer and win the lottery but I'm not going to let those two pieces of purely wishful thinking impact decisions I have to make in reality, right?

Edited April 23, 2012 by DarthTHC

[Zannis]

I prefer server only, but am beginning to realize that it won't work.

 

Server only dungeon finders work only with robust populations, and there are way too many servers that have too few concurrent connections. A server only LFG tool will be useless for way too many.

[Drakkip]

Server merges are so distant that they're irrelevant to the conversation.

 

So you work there and know this for a fact? Settle down already, relax, take a deep breath, no need to get all riled up it's not good for your health.

 

I can see both sides of the LFG tool. It has some good things and it has some bad things. There isn't any reason why server mergers couldn't be done in the same timefram as an LFG tool.

 

And yes ideally I would like to see one server, other games do it, it's not "unpossible!"

[MasterKayote]

Going onto my 3rd 50, I lament the fact that even taking all characters into account, I have not been into all of the flashpoints yet.

Xserver is a solution to this, not THEE solution. Merges, transfers, and a good "robust" same server LFG has every chance to solve this issue. With few consequences, if any.

 

 

I lament the fact that the two times I've gone into a group in which the group leader decided to roll NEED on everything, the only option the remaining 3 of us had was to drop group. Or keep going because groups are so damn hard to get.

 

I lament the fact that I've been forced to run some flashpoints twice because the group leader decided to kick me out after the last boss fight but before the flashpoint-ending event.

 

I lament the fact that I've been grouped up with tanks so fail that they charge ahead into battle without looking at the healer's focus or anyone's health... after being told not to repeatedly. I lament the fact that I've been grouped with DPS so fail that they often don't let the tank charge into battle before checking their health, because they do it instead... after being told not to repeatedly. I lament the fact that my only recourse in these cases was to drop group and go back to spamming general chat in hopes of finding another group sometime before I had to log out to go to bed so I could get enough sleep to do my job well the next day.

 

All these things have happened in this game.

So basically what youre saying is that out of the "two times" youve gotten into a group, BOTH group leaders ninja'd and you stayed because there are no groups and hes the leader (which BTW isnt an xserver issue, its a group mechanic that doesnt let you vote-kick someone), kicked at the final boss fight, had bad tanks, bad DPS, and overall bad players? Those entire "two times". Wow ...

 

Anyway, horrible exaggeration (and lies?) aside ... like I said before, thats not a problem about xserver ... its population, its incentive to even play FPs, and its the group mechanics BW designed which wont allow you to kick a player before continuing. Besides whats your point? No one ever said these things didnt happen before xserver, we're saying it got worse. Otherwise being able to votekick, or bad looting rules are NOT exclusive to xserver and can be done even without an actual LFG tool.

 

I wonder, after having run thousands of X-LFG dungeons in WoW and the few flashpoints that I have run here, what this "accountability" looks like, that people who fear bad things happening in a game reference.

 

You must be the only one then. Ive seen the results of it myself which I have posted multiple times in these threads. Just the other day some smart*** in Tatooine was ignore by almost everyone in the planet (plus some guilds) for trolling everyone into the PvP area under the guise of a world boss. Many, including myself, werent even on that group and he made the ignore list. Is it the whole server? Nope, but its a good chunk. Finding people to play with just got significantly harder for him. Now go ahead and deny it again. All that is meaningless with xserver.

 

I wonder, after so much time wasted spamming chat channels for groups while being trapped on fleet if this is what a really crappy implementation of a lobby game feels like.

Yup, correct implementation of a same server LFG would fit right in.

 

And I unsubscribed, telling BioWare clearly in the unsubscribe reason and subsequent survey, that my decision was 100% due to the frustration I experience trying to get a Flashpoint group.

and ... theyre working on it.

[chaosdefined]

Xserver is a solution to this, not THEE solution. Merges, transfers, and a good "robust" same server LFG has every chance to solve this issue. With few consequences, if any..

 

And we've stated many times, server populations fluctuate too much for a server merge to be the ultimate fix you seem to think it is. But not only that, there's no way EA and Bioware want this game to go down in history as the MMO to have done a server merge in the shortest time since launch!

 

Like I said. Cross Server Group Finder with the option of searching Single Server as well then both groups are happy.

Edited April 23, 2012 by chaosdefined

[Darkulous]

Going onto my 3rd 50, I lament the fact that even taking all characters into account, I have not been into all of the flashpoints yet.

 

 

Same story here dude.

 

People say it destroys a community. HELLO! The guild is your community.

 

People say it brings out the worst in people. HELLO! It brings more people to you thus increasing the chances of running into douche bags. You still run the same chance running into Douche bags from your own server, just at a SLOWER rate.

 

Also, if you spend hours looking for a healer on fleet and they turn out to be a punk, YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT. Not so with LFD. If they need on everything, if they're being an ******e - KICK, reque, replace, move on.

[Jarazar]

Same story here dude.

 

People say it destroys a community. HELLO! The guild is your community.

 

People say it brings out the worst in people. HELLO! It brings more people to you thus increasing the chances of running into douche bags. You still run the same chance running into Douche bags from your own server, just at a SLOWER rate.

 

Also, if you spend hours looking for a healer on fleet and they turn out to be a punk, YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT. Not so with LFD. If they need on everything, if they're being an ******e - KICK, reque, replace, move on.

 

Great points. I have been in countless LFD groups in "other" mmo's and I rarely run into issues with the folks in the group.

[Drakkip]

Same story here dude.

People say it brings out the worst in people. HELLO! It brings more people to you thus increasing the chances of running into douche bags. You still run the same chance running into Douche bags from your own server, just at a SLOWER rate.

 

I have to agree with you on that one. Having an effective /votekick is important part of the LFD tool that should be implemented at the same time.

[Exittium]

Nope and Wrong forums this would be something more suited for the suggestion box.

[DarthTHC]

Xserver is a solution to this, not THEE solution. Merges, transfers, and a good "robust" same server LFG has every chance to solve this issue. With few consequences, if any.

 

It is the solution that:

• Has solved the problem in other MMOs very successfully.
  
• Is the most likely to be implemented soonest.
  

 

So basically what youre saying is that out of the "two times" youve gotten into a group, BOTH group leaders ninja'd and you stayed because there are no groups and hes the leader (which BTW isnt an xserver issue, its a group mechanic that doesnt let you vote-kick someone), kicked at the final boss fight, had bad tanks, bad DPS, and overall bad players? Those entire "two times". Wow ...

 

No. I'm saying that the bad behavior that people attribute to X-LFG happen in the game right now without any sort of LFG tool so:

• Their arguments are invalid.
  
• LFG tools tend to give us players better ways to deal with bads than we have now
  

 

Anyway, horrible exaggeration (and lies?)

 

And that's exactly where I'm done with you. I have no incentive to lie, and I don't lie. Ever.

[Tifadore]

Face it, cross server LFG is the ultimate casual tool, and must be implemented if you are to grow!

[Msicr]

Face it, cross server LFG is the ultimate casual tool, and must be implemented if you are to grow!

 

I agree with you.

[DigitalPrime]

No

 

Server based communities, Server mergers work better

 

End of!