How viable is assault for pvp?

[Moryu]

If you want to spec assault you should have rolled vanguard.

 

This shows how little some people know on these forums, no great surprise there then!

Carry on.

Edited May 6, 2012 by Moryu

[BobaFaceroll]

Actually, as someone who has a 50 Commando and Powertech (Vanguard mirror) I agree with his statement 100%. If all you've played is a Commando then Assault looks fantastic for PvP. You get to choose between Assault and Gunnery, and Assault is clearly the better PvP spec. If you've played both a Commando and a Vanguard as Assault in PvP though you will understand why people say "You should have rolled a Vanguard".

 

Vanguard: 100% chance to proc Plasma Cell with zero cool down, instant activation, 10m range attack.

Commando: No way to generate a a guaranteed Plasma Cell proc.

 

Vanguard: Two instant skills (0s cool down and 9sec cool down) have a chance to reset HiB. One of these skills is also the 100% chance to proc Plasma Cell skill mentioned above. You can stay 100% mobile while trying to reset HiB, and your reset skill with a cool down comes back 3sec faster.

Commando: Two channeled skills (0s cool down and 15sec cool down) have a chance to reset HiB. One forces you to stop for 1.5sec and channel; the other forces you to stop for a split second if you are willing to forego most of the skill's damage output, but you cannot stay mobile while trying to reset HiB.

 

Vanguard: Two low ranked traits that let you add 60% armor pen and 6% damage to HiB. Traits that increase all elemental damage dealt and elemental attack crit chance (Assault has a LOT of elemental damage). A trait that increases Stock Strike damage (one of your HiB reset procs).

Commando: No extra traits anywhere that add extra armor pen or damage to HiB. No traits that increase elemental damage or crit chance.

 

The Vanguard version of Assault has fantastic synergy. You can stay constantly on the move. The skills you use to regularly reset HiB don't force you to channel, and have multiple traits to improve their damage output. You can keep a DoT on your foe full time, increasing damage dealt and letting you reliably kite your foes. Everything plays well with each other, allowing you to apply constant pressure to your foe. The Commando version feels disjointed and weak by comparison. All your elemental attacks do less damage and crit less often. You can't apply your DoT 100% of the time, on demand. You have to decide between standing still to proc HiB resets, going without trying to reset HiB (a lot less damage output), or using a gimp hybrid of Tech Override + CB every 2min or pausing for a split second to waste Full Auto just for a HiB proc. It doesn't put out as much overall damage, and it doesn't do it as smoothly or with as much mobility as a Vanguard.

 

TL;DR - Commando Assault looks good in PvE solely because the alternative, Gunnery, is worse. It's OK, but only because you can do a little more on the move than you can as Gunnery. Anyone who says Commando Assault is just as good as Vanguard is kidding themselves though, and you.

 

If you read this far I'll tell you what I'd like to see. Instead of people talking about how awesome Assault is how about we start talking about re-working both the Gunnery and Assault trees for Commandos (and their BH mirrors)? Gunnery still has the same rotation as it did before, and Assault needs help to synergize/play as well it does for a Vanguard. I'd love for a more varied skill rotation and thoughtful game play as Gunnery spec, one that lets me be effective without anyone screaming for a nerf because so much functionality is wrapped around one skill. I'd love for Assault to play as well for Commando as it does for Vanguard. Constantly respeccing between two rather poorly designed skill trees is not much fun.

 

I really want to love my Commando, but right now I don't. Both DPS specs need help.

Edited May 6, 2012 by BobaFaceroll

[Jinkblade]

I you wanted to use assault spec, and be a melee class, and have tanking options instead of healing options, then yes vanguard is more suitable.

 

Assault spec is perfectly viable for both PvE and PvP. Gunnery has higher DPS under ideal circumstances and a simpler rotation, but assault maintains higher damage while moving thanks to the DoTs, and increased single-target burst with assault plastique and the HiB cooldown reset.

 

Again my statement still stands.

[Jinkblade]

This shows how little some people know on these forums, no great surprise there then!

Carry on.

 

Why aren’t you mister too good for everyone else

[brutalor]

 

impressive post.

 

congrats.

[Jedikillar]

while assault spec for the vanguard seems a lot better on paper(and in 1v1 situations against them), the added range that commandos can keep their dps sustained from, and the fact that they can, if a few points are put into the healing tree, do some losing and heal themselves(its not huge we arent heal specced after all, but the activation time decreasing talent and maybe a couple of others in theh ealing tree makes it decent enough for a small bit of added survivability that the vanguard wont get). yes even with range and some healing the vanguard is *currently* still better with this spec, commando i feel is not quite as bad off as everyone claims if played well, though they certainly arent in a good spot for pvp right now. just my 2 cents, feel free to disagree/caps lock scream my face into the ground.

[Aaoogaa]

If it breaks down to competative PVP then Vanguard Assault is head and shoulders the better spec. If you are running pugs and your main goal is to keep yourself alive as long as possible without considering winning then Commando Assault may be for you. The ability to duck and cover to heal up is great without dedicated healers.

 

I have leveled multiple 50 Commandos and Vanguards in Beta on. Vanguard Assault is head and shoulders the better spec when in the fight with an organized group.

[ArchangelLBC]

Sup necro bump.

[Ancaglon]

To activate HiB you need to cast either FA ( 3 sec channeling) or ChargBolt ( 1.5 sec cast) and if you are lucky the cooldown on HiB will be rested. In a competitive PvP you will be taking a lot of aggro if you stay still for 5 secs .

While that's with Charged Bolts, the FA proc happens as you activate it -- so even if it's interrupted by movement or LoS or a stun, th HiB proc is there, and firing that off refunds you some ammo. That makes Assault far less vulnerable in PVP than Gunnery, and I speak as a Commando that levelled valor-locked to 50 and only switched to Assault with 1.3.

[crazyBE]

Commando: No extra traits anywhere that add extra armor pen or damage to HiB. No traits that increase elemental damage or crit chance.

 

 

I laughed at the crit chance part. Nope definitely no +6% tech and +3% ranged crit chance.

Field Training and Special Munitions totally don't exist in Gunnery and Combat Med tree.

 

Oh wait!

[ArchangelLBC]

I laughed at the crit chance part. Nope definitely no +6% tech and +3% ranged crit chance.

Field Training and Special Munitions totally don't exist in Gunnery and Combat Med tree.

 

Oh wait!

 

And these days Assault Commando can spec into Armor Pen for HiB and FA. His post was from May. Also compared to the high level Vanguard cooldown (25% extra crit chance for 15 seconds compared to our Tech Override), the small boosts to crit chance we get are kinda wimpy.

[dejavy]

Still doubt between 3.

 

Started as Commando and all my love is with him. Then i realized that there's nothing to do as a commando among a trained pvp group from my guild and rolled into Vanguard. It's death-machine no doubt BUT it's damn melee. I hate sorcs snaring you with the lightning when your harpoon on CD. I hate running to a sniper through the field being holed hundreds of times. So, i started Gslinger. A perfect ranger, great utility in comparison with trooper (both vang/comm), awesome CC and group shielding. But something doesn't let me love this class. As if i betray trooper you know

 

Everytime i go back on commando i'm simply torn by marauders and the feeling of stress made me tired already. My total damage is fine in the end even without AOE but the feeling of useless doesn't leave me after i tried Vanguard and Gslinger. As a vanguard i can blow up someone defending a turret solo. I can pull out a healer from the crowd and smash him but still it's all about melee.

As a gslinger i can sit in a corridor and stop at least 3 enemies with lots of skills allowing me do this. Or take a silent cover somewhere and make holes in healers' heads. Even 1 on 1 situations sniper has much more chances to survive in comparison with commando.

 

Any words of support for commando or i should maybe keep playing gslinger until they fix commando?

Thx

Edited July 31, 2012 by dejavy

[xxIncubixx]

As gunnery only the bads are shut down with an interrupt. I destroy assault 1 v 1 as gunnery...why? You still don't have an interrupt and I can remove your dots. If you are going to run assault then go vanguard where the spec shines. Neither spec is currently great but at least gunnery is carrying a great deal of burst so when left alone it cuts through players in 4-6 seconds.

and then a marauder or jugg jumps on you and you are finished... or a powertech for that matter.... commandos are easy to kill they are always my first target when i play my loltech or lolganaught, why? because well commandos are free kills. simple as that.

[Baarabas]

As gunnery only the bads are shut down with an interrupt. I destroy assault 1 v 1 as gunnery...why? You still don't have an interrupt and I can remove your dots. If you are going to run assault then go vanguard where the spec shines. Neither spec is currently great but at least gunnery is carrying a great deal of burst so when left alone it cuts through players in 4-6 seconds.

 

^ this. Gunnery played right will out perform Assault as it is now. There is no "kiting" in this game. Minor LoS applications, but nothing an experienced Gunnery can't overcome.

[ArchangelLBC]

^ this. Gunnery played right will out perform Assault as it is now. There is no "kiting" in this game. Minor LoS applications, but nothing an experienced Gunnery can't overcome.

 

I disagree.

 

Assault has a few things going for it, the most important of which is it's upfront burst.

 

Assault's burst setup requires incend round to set up and you're good to go. Then you can immediately HiB, then FA which even if it gets interrupted can give you the proc you need, into another HiB. That's burst with a 1 GCD setup, and while some classes (like our own!) can cleanse the DoT, this is often not done. That's upfront burst pretty much on demand and that is not to be sneezed at.

 

By contrast gunnery requires 1 full GCD of uninterrupted casting to really free up it's burst, and to get any real punch out of it you need 2 GCDs (so you can't just cheese the setup with TO), and of course what we'd all really prefer is 3 GCDs. Its not till you get those 5 stacks of charged barrel that gunnery HiB is going to match Assault HiB, and Demo only balances that out so much (since it also requires stacks of vortices on the target to really get it's punch up).

 

Left alone to free cast, yes gunnery I could see edging out ahead, but Assault is for when you can't really expect that. Having tried it out I have to say I really do love that upfront burst on demand in PVP, even though my first love is, and always will be gunnery.

[Macabakur]

my main spec for pvp, and.. honestly pve too now is assault on my commando. In my mind, it's the only viable choice, if played right, you can do almost... as much as vang/ptech aspec but you get heals, and heals are nice.. my highest wz with full battlemaster is 421 k damage. not too shabby considering aspec vang's top out at like 5-600 it's still less but it's the only spec that can pretty much, just about... almost keep up with them. I love it, it's the only class I play in pvp, it's fun, and quite viable.

[Macabakur]

Gear and skill being equal, gunnery will out dps assault. Gunnery has more sustained dps and more reliable burst. Assault is decent if you just want to run around dotting people and not necessarily killing them.

 

Assault has more a little more utility in huttball considering the slows and the increased mobility, but as a gunnery commando I can control mid and melt anyone trying to pick up a neutral ball.

 

wrong, unless they have a healer, i smoke gunnery commando/mercs. there's one or two that have beaten me 1 on 1. besides that, commando's/merc's die when they see me.. haha.

 

incen round + assault plast..hammer shot for the dot, hib, full auto, hib again. dead. and if u really wanna f'k their day up. start the rotation with a no cost, insta cast plasma grenade. that's mean though.. but fun. cuz plasma grenade.. omg. so nice.. if they are'nt dead after all that, a stockstrike will usually finish em off haha.

 

the best part about assault is that 5/6 of that is on the move, you can run around them, los them, and all that fun stuff, and they can't do dick about it. the only skill in that rotation that makes you stop is full auto, and after the plast/hammer/incen/hib they're kinda dumbfounded.. i've found at least. try it, it's fun heh.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Macabakur

[Macabakur]

and then a marauder or jugg jumps on you and you are finished... or a powertech for that matter.... commandos are easy to kill they are always my first target when i play my loltech or lolganaught, why? because well commandos are free kills. simple as that.

 

not 100 pct, while up front duel style 1 on 1, ya, jugg/ptech/mar is probably going to beat an assault, in actual pvp, if you have any idea of what you're doing, the second they leap in you knock back, incen, aplast, freeze, hammer shot, hib.. they unfreeze about there.. full auto, hib again.. and unless it's an annoying jug.. grr, theyre just about dead at that point.. and instead of running towards you.. they wanna get the f away idk, it works.. sometimes juggs will have the anti knockback.. idk wth that is skill.. and that sucks.. but shrug, i can still compete fairly well.

[oaceen]

with assault you can't play it like gunnery or combat medic.

 

don't just run around putting DOTs on people. focus on one target at a time.

 

don't even bother trying to kill mercenaries or operatives 1 on 1. they can sit and cleanse cleanse cleanse and heal themselves through any damage you can put out otherwise, even if they're specced for dps. the most you can do is annoy them for a while and keep them distracted. luckily, unless they're a hybrid, they can't kill you either.

 

sorcerers are a bit squishier even if they're specced for healing, but i wouldn't really recommend it either.

you can easily keep healers out of the fight and help your teammates burst one down though.

 

don't be afraid of marauders. unlike with gunnery or combat medic, you can kite with hammershot and once they get to around 30-40%, cryo grenade and finish them off with burnout, assault plastique, HIB, etc.

 

also don't be afriad of pyrotech powertechs. they hit really hard, but so do you. you can cleanse through their DOTs but they can't cleanse through yours, and that makes a big difference.

 

on a related note, kiting is your friend. the snare on plasma cell isn't stopped by resolve, so you can keep someone at 50% speed for quite a while.

[Aaoogaa]

As gunnery only the bads are shut down with an interrupt. I destroy assault 1 v 1 as gunnery...why? You still don't have an interrupt and I can remove your dots. If you are going to run assault then go vanguard where the spec shines. Neither spec is currently great but at least gunnery is carrying a great deal of burst so when left alone it cuts through players in 4-6 seconds.

 

I need people to look at the date on this post. I wrote it when I was critting people for 6+k with demo round...before gunnery was reduced to the heaped steaming pile...we won't go there...that it is now. Assault is currently the better pvp spec for dps in a very poorly performing AC. Assault vanguard is the way to roll atm. No doubt about it. I have played both Vanguard and Commandos at 50 from beta on in and Commando has steadily decreased in performance since the beginning. Commando anything just doesn't have the tools to compete at top level in high end organized PVP.

[ArchangelLBC]

I need people to look at the date on this post. I wrote it when I was critting people for 6+k with demo round...before gunnery was reduced to the heaped steaming pile...we won't go there...that it is now. Assault is currently the better pvp spec for dps in a very poorly performing AC. Assault vanguard is the way to roll atm. No doubt about it. I have played both Vanguard and Commandos at 50 from beta on in and Commando has steadily decreased in performance since the beginning. Commando anything just doesn't have the tools to compete at top level in high end organized PVP.

 

Well that covers you, but not the guy who agreed with you yesterday.

 

my main spec for pvp, and.. honestly pve too now is assault on my commando. In my mind, it's the only viable choice

 

I hope you mean only viable choice for PVP. The context suggests that's what you might have meant but you also mentioned PVE. In PVE, Gunnery will destroy Assault, just from an ammo management viewpoint.

[xxIncubixx]

problem is... marauders still destroy you on assault spec doesnt really matter. And lets be honest here... a vanguard/powertech in assault spec is 10 times better then a commando in the same exact spec and theres no way around that. When you go assault as commando you are basicaly playing a gimped assault vanguard.

[TUXs]

Well that covers you, but not the guy who agreed with you yesterday.

 

I hope you mean only viable choice for PVP. The context suggests that's what you might have meant but you also mentioned PVE. In PVE, Gunnery will destroy Assault, just from an ammo management viewpoint.

 

In PvE, Gunnery doesn't "destroy" Assault, but it does do better DPS most of the time. I run Ops with a few other Commandos, we use parser and the Gunnery spec'd Commando (Kakarote) is ahead in DPS probably 90% of the time. Kakarote is as well geared as anyone can get too, but I wouldn't say he "destroys" us...just keeps us humble

 

problem is... marauders still destroy you on assault spec doesnt really matter. And lets be honest here... a vanguard/powertech in assault spec is 10 times better then a commando in the same exact spec and theres no way around that. When you go assault as commando you are basicaly playing a gimped assault vanguard.

 

100% true. But Assault is, without any doubt, the better of the 2 DPS trees for PvP imo.

[ArchangelLBC]

In PvE, Gunnery doesn't "destroy" Assault, but it does do better DPS most of the time. I run Ops with a few other Commandos, we use parser and the Gunnery spec'd Commando (Kakarote) is ahead in DPS probably 90% of the time. Kakarote is as well geared as anyone can get too, but I wouldn't say he "destroys" us...just keeps us humble

 

Fair enough. I HAVE been known to engage in Hyperbole. Would you mind providing parser info from various ops and include relative gear of the two commandos? I'm curious to see the difference since to my mind pretty much everything should hit harder on Gunnery and you have to use hammer shot less, but then I'm sure DoTs are very nontrivial when you can keep them up for like 100% of time on a 6 minute fight.

 

Since the changes though I am seriously just in love with gunnery all over again in PVE.

 

100% true. But Assault is, without any doubt, the better of the 2 DPS trees for PvP imo.

 

I agree 100%. It sucks that our best PVP DPS spec is so outdone by the vanguard version, but that doesn't change the fact that it IS our best PVP DPS spec.

[dejavy]

Yesterday i talked to a game master concerning nickname change and when he asked me what else he could do for me. I begged him to fix my interrupt skill on commando ))))) And you know what he said? "Doesn't it work?" Holy cow, i said, I DON'T HAVE IT AT ALL!!! He advised to create a thread on the forum and promised to talk to devs concerning the matter. The case made my evening )

 

I wish we have interrupt and smth else to blow peeps up. I wish my sticky grenade calls the same enemy behavior in pvp as if i it's an NPC ) Can you imaging a sorc waving his creepy hands trying to take off the grenade during 2 seconds - my dream ))

Edited August 7, 2012 by dejavy