The reason for a lack of a real combat log?

[SentinelDranoel]

You don't NEED a combat log, you need server merges.

[Cataphractone]

You don't NEED a combat log, you need server merges.

 

I play on one of the most populated servers in the game. I don't need those. Those would be nice for people on low population servers though.

 

Do not try to side track my thread for your own purposes though. You have the ability to make your own.

[SentinelBorg]

Yes, I should know XML to be able to read the combat log of a video game.

 

Brilliant.

The combat log is not even XML, so that guy is talking out of his ***. ^^

[Knockerz]

You don't NEED a combat log, you need server merges.

 

Yes, we need server merges more than a combat log.

 

I think the purpose or design goal of the current combat log was to make so that you can improve your own dps and not to be used to gauge how much dps every one else is doing. Otherwise, why wouldn't BW design a combat log that record other people's combat abilities and thus record their dps.

 

Finally, people said they wanted a combat log and BW technically gave them a combat log. It just doesn't record other people's combat abilities. Thus, what people should have said is they wanted a combat log that records all combat abilities used like the combat log in wow.

[Cataphractone]

Yes, we need server merges more than a combat log.

 

I think the purpose or design goal of the current combat log was to make so that you can improve your own dps and not to be used to gauge how much dps every one else is doing. Otherwise, why wouldn't BW design a combat log that record other people's combat abilities and thus record their dps.

 

Finally, people said they wanted a combat log and BW technically gave them a combat log. It just doesn't record other people's combat abilities. Thus, what people should have said is they wanted a combat log that records all combat abilities used like the combat log in wow.

 

He didn't say WE need them, he said I need them.

 

And I've said this about a million times. I don't care if a basic combat log ONLY SHOWS MY DAMAGE AND DAMAGE TAKEN. I just want it IN GAME.

[Luminastik]

Right after the day when the combat log was introduced people started "my class is so weak, look how much class xy crits".

 

Reading this thread here, you also find many examples why such a DPS Meter etc. is not wanted. Its not used to judge the own performance, it is used to find an excuse why a raid or dungeons is not completed.

Unfortunately are those excuses never based on true fact´s, because the DPS that does 10k dps and doesnt need any healing due great movement, does intercept when needed and is able to keep his target in CC - is still always better than the 20k dps who does eat the healers mana, misses every intercept etc.

 

 

Wow brought up a very bad attitude, called elitism. An behaivour which does ignore own mistakes, while blaming always the others. Thats not wanted here and I do hope that BW is able to keep it away from this game - even tho there are allready some addons which do support elitism...

 

I can understand how you see it, but with the current MOX parser, we've shown and proven that some people are doing so horribly in raids, even after trying to help them with stats/specs/rotations. We have some people doing less than half of the dps of others in worse gear than them. You people may see it wrong to use a meter or combat log to see if people are doing bad and replacing them, but it's needed either way. There's no reason that we should have to carry people just because BioWare doesn't want us to see who's doing badly.

[Knockerz]

He didn't say WE need them, he said I need them.

 

And I've said this about a million times. I don't care if a basic combat log ONLY SHOWS MY DAMAGE AND DAMAGE TAKEN. I just want it IN GAME.

 

Actually, I agree with you, but personally I think BW should fix the low pop server/merge problem first.

[Cataphractone]

Actually, I agree with you, but personally I think BW should fix the low pop server/merge problem first.

 

They would most likely be different teams working on them. One involves transfers between servers with hardware and software to take into consideration; the other involves something already in the game added to the GUI.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Cataphractone

[BucMan]

I can understand how you see it, but with the current MOX parser, we've shown and proven that some people are doing so horribly in raids, even after trying to help them with stats/specs/rotations. We have some people doing less than half of the dps of others in worse gear than them. You people may see it wrong to use a meter or combat log to see if people are doing bad and replacing them, but it's needed either way. There's no reason that we should have to carry people just because BioWare doesn't want us to see who's doing badly.

 

But when you are in a guild raid, that's all fine because you can decide to join a different guild because you have a different philosophy. A guild raid should by definition be better than PUGs because your crew have been doing things together for quite some time. Guilds have DKP and other loot systems.....PUGs is all random. To expect a random group to perform like your well oiled machine of a raid guild is where the problem lies with the DPS meter abuse.

 

But that's not what the OP is asking for. As an opponent of in-game easy-peasy DPS meters, I support giving a single player only Combat Log like was in Everquest back in 1999.

[YavinResident]

I'm glad that we get charts at the end of warzones. You eventually learn who the mouth breathers are.

 

If BW is okay with giving us those charts (thereby revealing who sucks in pvp), why not an honest to god meter or something like it for raids (thereby revealing who sucks, in raids)

 

By the way nice job owning bob's face cataphract XD

 

but your combat log missed

 

Pete>Recuperative Nanotech>Cataphract>643

Pete>Recuperative Nanotech>Cataphract>412

 

might want to use a different parser hahah

Edited April 22, 2012 by YavinResident

[ivanhedgehog]

I can understand how you see it, but with the current MOX parser, we've shown and proven that some people are doing so horribly in raids, even after trying to help them with stats/specs/rotations. We have some people doing less than half of the dps of others in worse gear than them. You people may see it wrong to use a meter or combat log to see if people are doing bad and replacing them, but it's needed either way. There's no reason that we should have to carry people just because BioWare doesn't want us to see who's doing badly.

 

I have seen this too, except when you look closely, the tank isnt keeping agro, and the dps is getting reamed by the boss. Very hard to keep your dps up when you are tanking also. But your combat log doesnt show that. I saw the same thing in wow when playing a mage, having to stop attacking to let the crappy tank keep the bosses attention. But there isnt an easy spammable addon for that is there.We dont need that behavior in this game. The orininal call for a combat log was "so we can improve ourselves". I guess those people were liars because it seems to have changed.

[samht]

...

 

That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

 

/agreed. If you want real life stop playing games and go hit your neighbor.

[Tiaa]

It's pretty easy to tell who it is that isn't doing enough DPS in a flashpoint if you aren't doing a PUG. As far as I am concerned, when it comes to end game content, I only do it with my two friends and one random if we don't have a friend or guild mate who can join. My friends are a healer and tank, and I am the DPS. I know for sure my rotation maximizes my DPS, so if we can't beat the enrage timer, we know who it is.

 

However, we don't just kick the person as most would or tell him to do better, we actually work with him/her to find out what the problem is and figure it out together. And this was before combat logs. In game combat logs are just another way for people to put the entire blame on one or two people instead of trying to help them out. Don't do enough DPS? No problem, we will kick you and get someone else.

 

If you really want to find out how people in your group are doing, have them upload their logs to a site and you can review them together.

 

OP, as for your concern, I unfortunately do not know of one which you can use to get the raw data. The only thing I can suggest is to hope someone posts one on this thread that can give you what you want.

 

Post like this shock me.

 

Mainly because people think that it is hard to play this game.

 

This game is as easy and dumbed down as it gets for an MMO.

 

You don't "know" who is doing what, you are assuming. Only way you can really tell is by gear. Not because you found the perfect rotation in a game that amounts to SPAMMING the same two to three buttons and using short timed cooldowns.

 

Anyone talking like this about rotations and play this game still probably played WoW at one point. They just weren't good at it so now they come to an easy mode game and they're professional gamers...I see.

 

And if there are people like this whom already dictate how others are preforming without any real evidence...

 

I used to love pissing these people and DM spammers off in WoW. Fondest memory

 

Go do a instance run in raid epics and purposely do the minimum DPS just so they can start raging or trying to give me "tips" on a class I played for years.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Tiaa

[Adderdin]

Let put it this way, in real life if I get mad at you, and hit you, a number does not come flying off your head telling me how hard I hit you.

 

The more we rely on numbers and the crunching of numbers in this or any game, the more what is supposed to be an adventure game, becomes a spreadsheet.

 

The less we move in that direction, the better off we are.

 

I am opposed to any form of combat long ( even the limited one that exists now ).

 

Oh lol

 

"In real life" arguments regarding what someone wants in a game!

 

Dude you should get your iq checked, In real life, if you get mad at someone and you hit them you get a number shown, pretty fast. In real life there is this thing called the law, and if you hit someone really hard, they might you know, call the police and you know, you might get a fine (A NUMBER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) or you might even go to jail for some time (ANOTHER NUMBER!~!!!!!`11) and so on.

[Cataphractone]

Post like this shock me.

 

Mainly because people think that it is hard to play this game.

 

This game is as easy and dumbed down as it gets for an MMO.

 

You don't "know" who is doing what, you are assuming. Only way you can really tell is by gear. Not because you found the perfect rotation in a game that amounts to SPAMMING the same two to three buttons and using short timed cooldowns.

 

Anyone talking like this about rotations and play this game still probably played WoW at one point. They just weren't good at it so now they come to an easy mode game and they're professional gamers...I see.

 

And if there are people like this whom already dictate how others are preforming without any real evidence...

 

I used to love pissing these people and DM spammers off in WoW. Fondest memory

 

Go do a instance run in raid epics and purposely do the minimum DPS just so they can start raging or trying to give me "tips" on a class I played for years.

 

Your post is extremely disjointed and I really have no idea what point you are trying to make,

[LovarBoy]

You DO know we have a parser, right? And it can be recorded in real time, and sent to anybody you want, right?

 

 

Nevertheless it's crap.

 

 

Why implement this complicated mechanic instead of implementing a player-based thing like Recount? This solution is ridiculous.

[BucMan]

Your post is extremely disjointed and I really have no idea what point you are trying to make,

 

I believe the person was saying something along the lines of this game is so easy you don't need to be all min-maxxed to the finest decimal point to succeed. Someone earned rotations in WoW so came to this game using the same terminology trying to sound all big and bad(don't think he is talking about you OP) but in reality they are just fooling themselves. One of his biggest ways to have fun in WoW was to go into a raid doing a minimal amount of DPS just to hear the nerd-rage.

 

 

Or something like that.

[BucMan]

Nevertheless it's crap.

 

 

Why implement this complicated mechanic instead of implementing a player-based thing like Recount? This solution is ridiculous.

 

We've already been over the why of the mechanic, but the OP(and this topic) isn't about that. It's about why the chosen method went one step too far(IMO and in the opinion of the OP) to hide information. And to that end, I agree with the OP that it would be nice to have the combat log displayed in a chat window just like it was back in Everquest circa 1999.

Edited April 22, 2012 by BucMan

[Beslley]

Yes at the Guild Summit, George said that they don't want it to be used to judge people.

 

But, we're gonna need it in-game sooner or later. Right now there are enrage timers for hardmode FP bosses and even for the world bosses. If a boss is not going down, we need to know which dps is not pulling their weight. And once we do, we can then tell that dps to do more dps.

 

It is a bit selfish to hide the ineptness of one dps that causes the wipe for the other 3 members who are pulling their weight.

 

Yeah, this is what I'm irritated about.

You can't put in bosses with enrage timers then not put in a comprehensive combat log.

Bioware wants to have their cake and eat it too by pleasing the players afraid of being "bullied" for their poor performance while simultaneously trying to have difficult PvE end-content.

 

They can't have it both ways. Either you make the encounters easy enough so that we don't have to worry about performance or you put in a comprehensive combat log, and that's that.

 

Right now my guild is using the MOX parser as a rough measure but the numbers flip out after the fight's over for some reason (IDK whether is is a MOX problem or a combat log problem) and it shows one DPS doing 50% of the damage on a boss (which obviously isn't possible). So we basically have to watch the meters RIGHT as the boss is dropping to get an accurate depiction of our dps, which is pretty difficult to do unless you have a second monitor to watch the MOX parser.

 

It's ridiculous. :/

 

I'd also love a way to measure threat (I hear MOX is going to add that functionality, and if that's true I can't wait ). All I can really do right now is give the tank a few seconds before starting, and hit my threat drop every time it's up. I'd love to be able to see real-time how close I am on threat so I could slow dps instead of pulling threat in ignorance.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Beslley

[terminova]

Nevertheless it's crap.

 

Why implement this complicated mechanic instead of implementing a player-based thing like Recount? This solution is ridiculous.

 

Yes, it's so much more complicated than a player having to code and keep add-ons like Recount updated and compatible with the latest version of the game.

 

As I've stated before, most people checking the combat log are not doing so in real time, they are checking after-the-fact which means out-of-game parsers working in real time are just as effective as in-game parsers working in real time because both give you the same information. The difference is one isn't lost when the game crashes or you log out.

[Cataphractone]

Yes, it's so much more complicated than a player having to code and keep add-ons like Recount updated and compatible with the latest version of the game.

 

As I've stated before, most people checking the combat log are not doing so in real time, they are checking after-the-fact which means out-of-game parsers working in real time are just as effective as in-game parsers working in real time because both give you the same information. The difference is one isn't lost when the game crashes or you log out.

 

Last I checked, Recount didn't wipe its data upon log out unless you told it too. You could have it keep damage from everything you ever did, it would bog your game down, but it only wiped its memory if I told it too.

 

But my thread isn't about that. I just want a simple IN-GAME combat log. That I can check after something happens to see what happened without needing to use a parser.

[NDiggy]

The lack of a real combat log is one of the many reasons I've cancelled. There is no reason not to have basic information like that available.

[Ricktur]

guys, who cares? people complain about how easy the content is, why do you need to know the exact number you are doing about anything? its so you can brag. and thats not what this is about.

[ClariceCreed]

I have not read all 13 pages of back-and-forth about how players are mean to each other when they see in-game damage numbers, so excuse me if this is already mentioned.

 

I just want to point out that lack of a simple, in-game combat log in the chat window is one of the main reasons I might quit. In part because their reason for not having it ridiculously dense. If they didnt want others to see my numbers to protect me from peer pressure, they could just hide them from others. No reason at all to hide my damage taken and dealt from myself. Especially now that they even give me my numbers in a shiny file to review afterwards or go third party to see it while playing.

[Cataphractone]

I have not read all 13 pages of back-and-forth about how players are mean to each other when they see in-game damage numbers, so excuse me if this is already mentioned.

 

I just want to point out that lack of a simple, in-game combat log in the chat window is one of the main reasons I might quit. In part because their reason for not having it ridiculously dense. If they didnt want others to see my numbers to protect me from peer pressure, they could just hide them from others. No reason at all to hide my damage taken and dealt from myself. Especially now that they even give me my numbers in a shiny file to review afterwards or go third party to see it while playing.

 

I completely agree with you. The bickering about making fun of people and not needing damage meters has nothing to do with why I want a combat log.

 

If I get hit for 5000, I want to know what hit me for 5000, and I want to know without having to dissect a parser to find out. A simple, in-game combat log is a feature in every other MMO on the market. I wouldn't care if it only showed what happened to me. That is what I used it for in WoW anyway. The combat log that showed anything moved to fast and had too much junk data in it to get anything useful out of it.