Cataphractone Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 All the information we get in game is what killed us, and what we killed. All the good stuff is out of the game in a text file that is barely readable without a 3rd party program to put it into something useful. What was the reasoning for not putting a real combat log in game? You know, something that I can scroll through to see what hit me and what not? Not everyone that wants to use the combat log just wants to see how much DPS they are doing. I have yet to find a parser that does what I want, which is just a simple print out of the raw file in a more readable form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOrionQuest Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 You DO know we have a parser, right? And it can be recorded in real time, and sent to anybody you want, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataphractone Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 You DO know we have a parser, right? And it can be recorded in real time, and sent to anybody you want, right? Like I said, I have yet to find one that actually does what I want. I just want the raw .txt file to be translated into something readable. I don't care about my DPS, HPS, Avoidance, how much damage and healing I did. I just want a combat log. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 All the information we get in game is what killed us, and what we killed. All the good stuff is out of the game in a text file that is barely readable without a 3rd party program to put it into something useful. What was the reasoning for not putting a real combat log in game? You know, something that I can scroll through to see what hit me and what not? Not everyone that wants to use the combat log just wants to see how much DPS they are doing. I have yet to find a parser that does what I want, which is just a simple print out of the raw file in a more readable form. They didn't want people who don't know what they are doing to be ragged on about their poor dps/damage/rotation whatever. It's basically an elaborate anti bullying mechanic for adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradLionhart Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 They didn't want people who don't know what they are doing to be ragged on about their poor dps/damage/rotation whatever. It's basically an elaborate anti bullying mechanic for adults. Yes at the Guild Summit, George said that they don't want it to be used to judge people. But, we're gonna need it in-game sooner or later. Right now there are enrage timers for hardmode FP bosses and even for the world bosses. If a boss is not going down, we need to know which dps is not pulling their weight. And once we do, we can then tell that dps to do more dps. It is a bit selfish to hide the ineptness of one dps that causes the wipe for the other 3 members who are pulling their weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazooty Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) The casuals are scared they won't be able to use abilities based on how cool they look, and might have to learn to play. I personally don't want my time wasted by a dps who's doing a half-assed job. The out of game parser doesn't let me me assess that. Edited April 20, 2012 by Wazooty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I was mad about it for a while but it's just whatever. The game was designed by casuals for casuals and the second something better comes along, I'm out. It's just not worth arguing about any more. It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataphractone Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 They didn't want people who don't know what they are doing to be ragged on about their poor dps/damage/rotation whatever. It's basically an elaborate anti bullying mechanic for adults. I would just be happy with what they already give us just in an in-game/out of game readable form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACLucius Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 It's pretty easy to tell who it is that isn't doing enough DPS in a flashpoint if you aren't doing a PUG. As far as I am concerned, when it comes to end game content, I only do it with my two friends and one random if we don't have a friend or guild mate who can join. My friends are a healer and tank, and I am the DPS. I know for sure my rotation maximizes my DPS, so if we can't beat the enrage timer, we know who it is. However, we don't just kick the person as most would or tell him to do better, we actually work with him/her to find out what the problem is and figure it out together. And this was before combat logs. In game combat logs are just another way for people to put the entire blame on one or two people instead of trying to help them out. Don't do enough DPS? No problem, we will kick you and get someone else. If you really want to find out how people in your group are doing, have them upload their logs to a site and you can review them together. OP, as for your concern, I unfortunately do not know of one which you can use to get the raw data. The only thing I can suggest is to hope someone posts one on this thread that can give you what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickRedOne Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 The casuals are scared they won't be able to use abilities based on how cool they look, and might have to learn to play. I personally don't want my time wasted by a dps who's doing a half-assed job. The out of game parser doesn't let me me assess that. This kind of attitude is why the combat log is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickRedOne Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Like I said, I have yet to find one that actually does what I want. I just want the raw .txt file to be translated into something readable. I don't care about my DPS, HPS, Avoidance, how much damage and healing I did. I just want a combat log. Sorry but isn't "how much damage and healing" exactly what a combat log is? Just what info do you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Its kind of weird, they go out of there way to cater to casuals with strange ideas like not having a combat window, then they totaly screw casuals by not having a dungeon finder. I would really love to interview the guy that gives the go ahead on all of these whacky ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediElf Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 It's pretty easy to tell who it is that isn't doing enough DPS in a flashpoint if you aren't doing a PUG. As far as I am concerned, when it comes to end game content, I only do it with my two friends and one random if we don't have a friend or guild mate who can join. My friends are a healer and tank, and I am the DPS. I know for sure my rotation maximizes my DPS, so if we can't beat the enrage timer, we know who it is. However, we don't just kick the person as most would or tell him to do better, we actually work with him/her to find out what the problem is and figure it out together. And this was before combat logs. In game combat logs are just another way for people to put the entire blame on one or two people instead of trying to help them out. Don't do enough DPS? No problem, we will kick you and get someone else. If you really want to find out how people in your group are doing, have them upload their logs to a site and you can review them together. Spoken like a true gamer, a rare thing to read, now a days. I really commend Bioware on the whole combat log issue. They took a bold step, and I think it will pay off in the long run for the game, and the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KekoSplit Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I'd like a combat log that won't make my SSD explode in 2 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senatsu Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 They launched the game without a combat log, you complained. They gave you an amazing combat log, you still complain. Stop whining, they gave you exactly what you wanted, and more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataphractone Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Sorry but isn't "how much damage and healing" exactly what a combat log is? Just what info do you want? I want something like this: Cataphract > Hidden Strike > Bob > 4200 (Crit) Cataphract > Backstab > Bob > 3000 (Crit) Bob > Overload > Cataphract > 900 Cataphract > Evasion Bob > Force Lightning > Cataphract > 400 Bob > Force Lightning > Cataphract > 400 Bob > Force Lightning > Cataphract > 400 Cataphract > Shiv > Bob > 1500 I just want what the raw data in the txt file converted into a readable from. They launched the game without a combat log, you complained. They gave you an amazing combat log, you still complain. Stop whining, they gave you exactly what you wanted, and more! They did not give me what I wanted. It is nice for PvE to be able to drop the files into a parser to see what your DPS is. That is not what I want. I want what I put above in real time in game. I want to be able to look after I died, what was it that hit me for 5000 but didn't get the killing blow. I don't care about other peoples damage. Keep it how it is, but I want it in game. Edited April 20, 2012 by Cataphractone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonBraun Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I don't think there is any reason they can't implement a real time combat log and output meter... There are times during fights one needs to know what their out put is and what they are doing to kick it up a notch if they need to... Real time data is absolutely needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grymtusk Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 This kind of attitude is why the combat log is what it is. And you are obviously someone whose never tried to play, participate in competitive activities, be it sports or other pursuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saerith Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Why would you even need a combat log for flashpoints? Heck, you can just watch somebody to see what they're doing. Explosive Conflict is probably going to be the first PvE content where we need everyone to really perform. EV, KP, and the pre-1.2 flashpoints had a lot of wiggle room if you had 1-2 questionable players. Instead of using combat logs for PvE content, they're far more useful for players when used in conjunction with training dummies. Players can try out different skill rotations and lock down the highest DPS rotation. If somebody is underperforming in an instance, it's pretty apparent without combat logs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataphractone Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 Why would you even need a combat log for flashpoints? Heck, you can just watch somebody to see what they're doing. Explosive Conflict is probably going to be the first PvE content where we need everyone to really perform. EV, KP, and the pre-1.2 flashpoints had a lot of wiggle room if you had 1-2 questionable players. Instead of using combat logs for PvE content, they're far more useful for players when used in conjunction with training dummies. Players can try out different skill rotations and lock down the highest DPS rotation. If somebody is underperforming in an instance, it's pretty apparent without combat logs. I don't want it for flashpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediElf Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 And you are obviously someone whose never tried to play, participate in competitive activities, be it sports or other pursuits. I think you've forgotten that old saying.... "There Is No "I" In Team." Nightmare Raids and flashpoints are a team effort, people need to work together for a common goal, not be at each others throats in a game of DPS elimination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aora Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) They didn't want people who don't know what they are doing to be ragged on about their poor dps/damage/rotation whatever. It's basically an elaborate anti bullying mechanic for adults. Yes, because we can't tell who rides the shortbus because they are too busy not moving out of the fire on the ground. Lack of a proper DPS meter isn't going to prevent poor players from being found out. I'm tired of this excuse because it isn't the tool that is the problem, it's the people using the tool. Some of us that want to help those that can't help themselves could use a proper meter to help identify where they are screwing up and how to fix it. Edited April 20, 2012 by Aora Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenCORP Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I think you've forgotten that old saying.... "There Is No "I" In Team." Nightmare Raids and flashpoints are a team effort, people need to work together for a common goal, not be at each others throats in a game of DPS elimination. that being said it is good for the DPS to compete against each other, you are always striving to beat the current top DPS. what does this achieve? Learning to play your class better and thus making your whole group more effective.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickRedOne Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I don't think there is any reason they can't implement a real time combat log and output meter... There are times during fights one needs to know what their out put is and what they are doing to kick it up a notch if they need to... Real time data is absolutely needed. There is a reason, they don't want to. Real time data is NOT absolutely needed. MMO's were out for a long time before Real time data was available, and groups did just fine. To many people are spoiled by all the addon's in WoW. Next you'll want DBM so you don't have to learn the fight, just have something tell you what key to press and when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelAnne Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Right after the day when the combat log was introduced people started "my class is so weak, look how much class xy crits". Reading this thread here, you also find many examples why such a DPS Meter etc. is not wanted. Its not used to judge the own performance, it is used to find an excuse why a raid or dungeons is not completed. Unfortunately are those excuses never based on true fact´s, because the DPS that does 10k dps and doesnt need any healing due great movement, does intercept when needed and is able to keep his target in CC - is still always better than the 20k dps who does eat the healers mana, misses every intercept etc. Wow brought up a very bad attitude, called elitism. An behaivour which does ignore own mistakes, while blaming always the others. Thats not wanted here and I do hope that BW is able to keep it away from this game - even tho there are allready some addons which do support elitism... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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