Definitely one BIG problem with the event

[Grymtusk]

griefing didn't sink subscriber numbers, poor development choices sank subscriber numbers.

 

SWG is a perfect example, lots of greifing going on but still incredibly popular, SOE then brought out the devastating NGE to try and dumb the game down and cater to the "casual" gamer but ended up destroying their subscriber base because of it.

 

just look at how death penalties have been pretty much eradicated from modern MMO's because of the QQing of "casual" gamers, SWG had perma death if your jedi died, other games had corpse runs, XP debt, destroyed items, lost credits, all a great incentive to learn2play

 

These days you spend a tiny fraction of credits(yet people are complaining on these very forums about the repair costs *rolleyes* ) to get back in the game and thats considered a death penalty,

 

EVE is still hugely success and of course I still play it, but its a niche market because of its extreme learning curve, one thing that impresses me with CCP is that they use the fact you can grief, rob "guild" banks etc as a selling point, they're attitude is "heres your sandbox, go and play"

 

its a great shame that the soul of an MMORPG has been gutted away over the years to create a single player facebook with some co-op elements and a tiny bit of PVP all because of corporate greed and a vocal minority.

 

Yeah there's a reason that **** isn't in MMO's anymore. Its not fun, ergo, no one played it. Maybe you like your tiny subscriber base, I guess good for you. But companies like Bioware and EA don't want 250,000 subs. They want 2.5 million +.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Grymtusk

[JediElf]

Then you shouldn't be able to enter PvP combat zones, or contested areas. You shouldn't be able to heal anyone that is flagged. You shouldn't be able to GROUP with anyone that is flagged, and you shouldn't be allowed in Warzones.

 

Yes that's exactly what a 'PVP always off' option would provide. People on PVE server generally don't want to get ganked, by being accidentally flagged, if they are just questing, and minding their own business.

 

PVP should remain on PVP servers, and optional warzones.

 

I don't want to sound terse but, why is this so hard for some of you to comprehend? Why is their this snide 'need' to subject people on PVE servers, to something they do not want to do?

 

If you want to gank, then go to a PVP server, it's really that simple,and it's why an 'always off' option is needed.

Edited April 20, 2012 by JediElf

[Dalwhat]

How very silly to try to define "interaction" as PvP.

 

As for "complaining on the forums" why not? Trying to reach the devs. via the forums is actually one of the intents of the forums.

 

And finally your assertion that this is akin to EVE players trying to get the basic intent of the game changed is also wrong. PvE servers are meant to be PvE and PvP on them should be ONLY by consent. This is not in any way attempting to change the game. It is a desire to have the game be as presented. PvP by consent only on PvE servers.

 

The point is that this IS how the game is presented. It arises due to the world event which will be gone by this time next week. People should read the game design notes before complaining that they exist.

[Bloodstealer]

depends on how you view it, OP could of ran away, he could of done something. instead he stood there and did nothing and IMO he quite rightly died, should of just learnt from the experience, respawned and carried on playing

 

instead he decided to make a post highlighting his poor gameplay hoping the developers will gut out more of what makes a multiplayer game multiplayer. PVP.

 

I wish one day a mod/dev would have the stones to close a thread on the basis OP messed up and died.

 

I am glad you feel this is a multi-player game tbh... not how I see it at all.. its nothing more than a small element in what is fast being seen as an SPRPG with some co-op.. PVP is nothing more than a minor distraction in this game... and even that small part they still havent got right in terms of performance, gearing and now flagging... I agree with the OP.. on a PVE server the opt in to a PVP situation should be voluntary no matter if the OP could of / should of run away. If you want open world PVP go to the right area on the map.... (Outlaws Den on Tattoine) then at your own risk do you try to kill world bosses, loot chests and take short cuts to other map areas using the area... because by entering the area you have made the choice.

But heading into Dune Sea to take on a world boss should not allow for PVP griefing to become automated.. it should also have a choice element...

Edited April 20, 2012 by Bloodstealer

[Phydra]

Phydra...you are awesome (and correct).

 

Back in UO I was a crafter and was not at all into PvP. At first Mr. BigPapaPimp and ImRedYourDead had a field day with me. But then, some of the real PvPers took note and started protecting my gathering butt. They let it be known that I was offlimits to the gankers and that mucking with me whilst about my business of gathering/mining/whatever would have repercussions.

 

And, despite being not at all into PvP (still am not) there was a sense of actual communitiy there. I crafted, sold things, supplied other players and in return I was protected by what I think of as REAL PvPers.

 

Have experienced nothing like it since and wish that there could be another UO because there was a sense of family/community etc. that hasn't been met in any other MMO since that I've seen.

 

Community is based upon cultural rules that are community enforced; this is what has been lost and it is why PvP and PvE are increasingly mutually exclusive.

 

I miss it, too.

[malyen]

I am on a PvE server too, and I got killed for no apparent reason by Imps the other day near the crash site. I was not sure what happened, as I never PvP. I guess I now know what went on, and why I was able to be attacked.

 

I agree with the OP. This should not allow you to become PvP flagged on a PvE server.....

 

Bioware, a fix would be appreciated please....

[DieAlteHexe]

The point is that this IS how the game is presented. It arises due to the world event which will be gone by this time next week. People should read the game design notes before complaining that they exist.

 

I guess I missed the part in the design notes that obviated the server (PvE) rulesets. Now, this does not include the mob(s) in Outlaw's, that's fine. It's clear that when you venture in there you're opening yourself up to PvP.

 

And, PvE servers are meant to be PvE, not "PvP when someone else wants to take advantage of a flaw to gank you".

 

As noted on server select screen for PvE servers:

 

"This is the standard environment where players compete against computer-controlled opponents. However, if you want a chance to fight other players (PvP), fights must be consensual and in designated areas of the world."

[DieAlteHexe]

Community is based upon cultural rules that are community enforced; this is what has been lost and it is why PvP and PvE are increasingly mutually exclusive.

 

I miss it, too.

 

Amen and amen.

[JediElf]

But heading into Dune Sea to take on a world boss should not allow for PVP griefing to become automated.. it should also have a choice element...

 

Exactly, and the people flagging other people. They know exactly what they are doing, and why they are doing it. It's not 'PVP', at all, it's making the lives of folks on PVE servers, during this event, miserable.

 

It's no wonder everyone just hangs out in fleet, and just waits out the timer for DNA. Who would want to do the dailies, if it means getting flagged, and ganked?

 

Bioware, if you're out there, we really need that PVP Always Off option.

Edited April 20, 2012 by JediElf

[maamets]

What strikes me about the OP is not that this scenario unfolded but rather that he felt it neccessary to come onto the forums to complain. This is the way the game is designed. If you want zero interraction with the MM in an MMO(RPG) I suggest it is your expectations which are wrong. You get the same in EVE from players who read the design notes and still get upset when someone comes and blows them up while they're mining. Maybe Skyrim would be a better game for the OP to play?

 

You really did not read the thread, am I right? OP plays on a PVE server and has no intention of PVP'ing and then someone else comes and by using a bug in the software forces a PVP flag upon him. This is griefing and the griefer should be reported.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

Exactly, and the people flagging other people. They know exactly what they are doing, and why they are doing it. It's not 'PVP', at all, it's making the lives of folks on PVE servers, during this event, miserable. That's not 'player interaction', that's griefing.

 

It's no wonder everyone just hangs out in fleet, and just waits out the timer for DNA. Who would want to do the dailies, if it means getting flagged, and ganked?

 

Bioware, if you're out there, we really need that PVP Always Off option.

 

Agreed for PVE servers, if you rolled on a PVP server, you made your bed, lie in it.

[Tigalo]

What strikes me about the OP is not that this scenario unfolded but rather that he felt it neccessary to come onto the forums to complain. This is the way the game is designed. If you want zero interraction with the MM in an MMO(RPG) I suggest it is your expectations which are wrong. You get the same in EVE from players who read the design notes and still get upset when someone comes and blows them up while they're mining. Maybe Skyrim would be a better game for the OP to play?

 

Posts like these is what makes me loose faith in humanity.

 

How is 16 ppl in a warzone more interaction than 16 ppl in a warzone?

How is meeting another player in the open world and attacking him more interaction than meeting another player and group up to do quests?

How is two group of people bashing together in OWPvP more interaction than one bigger group forming to take on a world boss?

 

And, for players to flag other players in any way on a PvE server is a bug, thats why they have fixed (most) of the other ways to do so. That its possible now is just poor testing.

 

MMORPGs are not MMOshooters. PvE is players vs environment, so the MM part on those servers are people grouping to take on the environment, thats not less interaction than players gathering to bash each others skulls in.

 

--"Crap, I tried to jump down this cliff and fell through the ground"

Your answer: Deal with it, thats how the game is designed........

My answer: fix the bug

Edited April 20, 2012 by Tigalo

[Elhanan]

Full support for the OP; Griefing should have no place in the MMO.

[Sambril]

In addition to the poor PvP flagging mechanics I don't understand why the devs feel the need to encourage PvP on PvE servers by setting part of the event in an open PvP zone. In fact I don't understand why such zones exist in the first place on a PvE server. I choose a PvE server because I do not want to PvP, ever.

[Slipfeed]

What is it with 90 pound weaklings that have never been in an actual fight in their entire lives and mmorpg's?

 

DOMINATOOOOR!

 

No but seriously.

 

If you feel that playing against other people is more fun than playing with them, well heck, to each their own.

 

If you play against other people in an attempt to full fill some need for domination over other human beings that is not provided for in your normal life, you're just pathetic.

 

If you're the later, and feel the need to look down on people who play a PvE centered video game and don't have the wish to pretend it's competitive, the word pathetic isn't enough to describe whats wrong with you.

 

If you where as good at video games as you like to believe you'd be getting paid to play starcraft.

 

Now that that's handled, to the topic. Ya, that's bull. But not totally unexpected.

 

Bioware seems to be pushing for PvP as a stopgap for their inability to create end game content, but only 10% or so of the population is bothering to pvp.

 

My guess is that the mindset is somewhere along the lines of "It's just because they havnt TIRED IT!!!! WOOHOO LETS POP THE CHERRY!!"

 

Truth be told, pvp in this game sucks. That's why people dont do it. If you expected it to be polished and well developed you didn't read much of the marketing material.

 

The push the devs are making on pvp is based on the fact that they dont need to develop pvp content. Create a map, dump players in it and they entertain themselves.

 

Personally if I want to compete, i'll go play starcraft or league of legends Swtor is about cooperative play against environmental hazards.

[Dalwhat]

I really don't get what people are complaining about. This is arising due to a DOCUMENTED world event. At other times healing pvp flagged players gets you flagged for pvp. These are the rules as designed by Bioware. If you can't be bothered to read up on the game and expect the mechanics to precisely follow what you EXPECT them to be then there is nothing that can be said to you. You play by the rules or you don't have to play. This scenario is so easily avoided. Plus you have the option of having 40 characters on your account. Go play one of the others if this mechanic offends you so much.

 

I can't stress this enough. SWTOR isn't played by YOUR rules or expectations. Sure, come on the forum and comment on why you think the design is at odds with what you were expecting. But to say it's WRONG, just because you say so isn't on. Bioware is trying to design a game that doesn't slavishly follow what has gone before. It is trying to evolve the genre. This is a short term world event that is easily avoided. If you put yourself in harms way and get your fingers burnt then hopefully you will learn and adapt. There is no worldwide law written down that a PVE balanced server should have no PVP whatsoever. I'm pretty sure there will be players on the RP servers not roleplaying. and the majority of players on the PVP servers will be doing missions. Don't be such carebears. It isn't PVP getting a bad name though this, it is the PVEers.

[DieAlteHexe]

I really don't get what people are complaining about. This is arising due to a DOCUMENTED world event. At other times healing pvp flagged players gets you flagged for pvp. These are the rules as designed by Bioware. If you can't be bothered to read up on the game and expect the mechanics to precisely follow what you EXPECT them to be then there is nothing that can be said to you. You play by the rules or you don't have to play. This scenario is so easily avoided. Plus you have the option of having 40 characters on your account. Go play one of the others if this mechanic offends you so much.

 

I can't stress this enough. SWTOR isn't played by YOUR rules or expectations. Sure, come on the forum and comment on why you think the design is at odds with what you were expecting. But to say it's WRONG, just because you say so isn't on. Bioware is trying to design a game that doesn't slavishly follow what has gone before. It is trying to evolve the genre. This is a short term world event that is easily avoided. If you put yourself in harms way and get your fingers burnt then hopefully you will learn and adapt. There is no worldwide law written down that a PVE balanced server should have no PVP whatsoever. I'm pretty sure there will be players on the RP servers not roleplaying. and the majority of players on the PVP servers will be doing missions. Don't be such carebears. It isn't PVP getting a bad name though this, it is the PVEers.

 

Perhaps you missed the post in reply to your other post that clearly states the rule set on PvE servers. It renders what you are saying, complete with the snide comment about "carebears" totally moot.

 

You are clearly not stupid, you are simply stubborn and refuse to see what BW has clearly set as rules on a PvE server.

Edited April 20, 2012 by DieAlteHexe

[Pocketjangle]

Is it such a big ask to have the option for PvP to be turned off? I am on a PvE server and have no desire to do any PvP whatsoever, good luck to the PvP'ers have as much fun on your designated PvP server, but I'd like to take part in this and future events without running into gankers and griefers. It's the whole reason I created chars on a non PvP server.

[Bloodstealer]

The point is that this IS how the game is presented. It arises due to the world event which will be gone by this time next week. People should read the game design notes before complaining that they exist.

 

How to miss the point by such a wide margin... me thinks that it is you that maybe needs to re-read the game design notes... unless of course reading comprehension isn't your strong point..

 

Why would they have specific server types listed, why is there an opt in for WZ's, why is there a 10 second flagging alert and message when entering World PVP areas on non PVP sefvers..... now try again, this time allowing your brain a few extra seconds to absorb the thought process being put to you.... or

 

Lets say you roll on a PVP server cos you so like the MM in an SPRPG that offers so little MMO... you go about your business as anyone would in a PVP environment, hack slash and compete till you drop, so far so good... then an event hits your game and your all in for competing it... except just as you arrive at your objective, your sabre blazing bright, a grp of Imps or Reps descends upon you... expecting the PVP to begin you rush in AOE goes off.. except your ignored and the grp carries on counting the butterflies.. as per the objective... now maybe you might then join in and run round exploring, clicking and doing nothing but this for maybe an hour or so until you complete the event objectives.. but you havent killed a single opp faction player... what's your fiurst thought... this isn't PVP... rage to forum and complain how lame it all is....

 

Maybe now your seeing the picture more clearly.. the game is designed to accomadate a variety of playstyles and yours is not the only one out there.... neither is it a PVE domain.. hence why there are specific opt in/opt outs in game... this was just poorly implemented and favours only those that seek to gank and grief rather than for others to get the objectives over ASAP so they can mopve on through the event, the game etc....

 

Just to add, I have nothing against PVP, I dont do much of it, but when I decide to I tend to enjoy it while mit lasts.. but the point is I make the choice of whether I wish to engage in it and in doing so have to accepot what PVP brings with it .. in my case normally a quick death and many harsh expletives shouted at the screen

Edited April 20, 2012 by Bloodstealer

[Arvig]

I miss the good old days where griefing was just part of the fact an MMO is a player driven environment, completely dynamic and constantly random. you either ragequit or you learn to adapt and have fun.

 

these online single player games really took the fun out of MMO's, i think EvE is the only true MMO out there, why can't developers just put on the game packaging minimum requirements: "An IQ above 60" and start ignoring the QQers who most of the time allow themselves to be griefed?

 

That doesn't sound like the "good old days", that just sounds like a bunch of frustration designed to alienate anyone whom doesn't have a "More Uber then Thou" attitude.

 

So please, to be blunt put away your ego bloat attitude. You're not somehow a better or more intelligent human being just because you apparently think it's perfectly fine to grief someone on a PvE server. I think the warning I'd put on most games is "Those with ego bloat and a more uber then thou attitude need not play".

 

Feel free to try to claim I am "QQing" or whatever other tripe you wish to claim. It will only prove what I am saying about you having an elitist ego bloated more uber then though attitude.

[EssBen]

 

I don't retaliate, and just say "Stop."

 

 

 

"That's what you'd say, but that wouldn't wash with Sith. No, he'd like a bit of pleading. Add spice to it. In fact, he'd probably tell you what he was going to do before he did it. "I'm going to pull your head off." "Oh no, please, don't pull my head off." "I'm going to pull your head off, because I don't like your head."

 

Sorry, don't know what came over me, why have my thumbs gone weird?

 

Yeah it shouldn't be possible to flag opposite faction members like this, but knowing it is possible I'd assume the worst, hit the vaccine sooner and hope it's fixed for future events.

[Bloodstealer]

I really don't get what people are complaining about. This is arising due to a DOCUMENTED world event. At other times healing pvp flagged players gets you flagged for pvp. These are the rules as designed by Bioware. If you can't be bothered to read up on the game and expect the mechanics to precisely follow what you EXPECT them to be then there is nothing that can be said to you. You play by the rules or you don't have to play. This scenario is so easily avoided. Plus you have the option of having 40 characters on your account. Go play one of the others if this mechanic offends you so much.

 

I can't stress this enough. SWTOR isn't played by YOUR rules or expectations. Sure, come on the forum and comment on why you think the design is at odds with what you were expecting. But to say it's WRONG, just because you say so isn't on. Bioware is trying to design a game that doesn't slavishly follow what has gone before. It is trying to evolve the genre. This is a short term world event that is easily avoided. If you put yourself in harms way and get your fingers burnt then hopefully you will learn and adapt. There is no worldwide law written down that a PVE balanced server should have no PVP whatsoever. I'm pretty sure there will be players on the RP servers not roleplaying. and the majority of players on the PVP servers will be doing missions. Don't be such carebears. It isn't PVP getting a bad name though this, it is the PVEers.

 

You didn't let your brain have them extra few seconds to think before you acted... shame... only one thing left is for you enroll back into junior high and maybe pick up of reading comprehension where you left off...

 

How did he put himself in harms way, except to attempt to take on a world boss "OUTSIDE" of a PVP zone....being griefed by a band of gankers... well I hope it makes you feel all awesomesauce, personally I would throw in some proper harrassment tickets.. escept we all know they just get filed by the automated droid systems...

 

Now run along and get back to your PVP server where the world is all yummy and carebear free

Edited April 20, 2012 by Bloodstealer

[Silvaeris]

In addition to the poor PvP flagging mechanics I don't understand why the devs feel the need to encourage PvP on PvE servers by setting part of the event in an open PvP zone. In fact I don't understand why such zones exist in the first place on a PvE server. I choose a PvE server because I do not want to PvP, ever.

 

You should probably change your sig then

[twigster]

To the OP, I'm not a big fan of PVP. Sure, I've done some PVP things(Hutball and the like)I play by myself or a couple of friends for the multiplayer part, but when I exploded all over a 50 lvl imp and both of us got flagged PVP. I was cool with it. He gacked me pretty quickly as I'm only a 40. But man was that fun! I'm really enjoying the event. Unfortunately, I'm a very casual player. I only have time to play maybe 1 - 2 hours, 2 - 3 times a week. I'd love to be more involved in this but unfortunately, I can't. That doesn't invalidate the work Bioware did to make this event. It's no different than what WoW did for the holidays... I rarely completed those either for the same reasons. The only thing I'm hoping for is the blood samples you collect will be made useful in the future. I'd hate to see the work I did do be wasted.

[Calsetes]

To the guys who agree with me, thanks.

 

To the guys that disagree with me, I made this thread for two reasons - first, so people know that an opposing-faction player with his flag toggled CAN flag you when they explode, thus opening up an avenue for griefing and non-consensual PvP, and second, to voice my opinion that should an event like this be done in the future, that Bioware please take into consideration those of us who want to participate, but not PvP. We're on a PvE server for a reason.

 

Could I have used a vaccine? Sure. But, like I said in the original post, I use a vaccine to protect myself from a cold someone has - NOT to protect myself from being dragged into a boxing match with them. The two are unrelated.

 

Also, I was level 43, they were level 50. Running would not help, since their speeders are faster than mine. I don't think I can point out any clearer that this was griefing from every angle. I couldn't even respawn since they would have just gone over to the respawn point and done it again.