Dealing with competent Marauders Post 1.2

[Attilaa]

Pre- 1.2 it was usually a very close fight between myself and the competent Annihilation Marauders of equal gear on my server. Post 1.2 it's much harder, feels near impossible to compete with them in 1v1 situations. Anything you guys are doing that works for you. And so you know the competent Marauders save their relic for undying rage on my server so telling me too cc them during UR doesn't really help. Edited April 19, 2012 by Attilaa

[exphryl]

Pre- 1.2 it was usually a very close fight between myself and the competent Annihilation Marauders of equal gear on my server. Post 1.2 it's much harder, feels near impossible to compete with them in 1v1 situations. Anything you guys are doing that works for you. And so you know the competent Marauders save their relic for undying rage on my server so telling me too cc them during UR doesn't really help.

 

I'm sure somebody will write something more detailed before I get back to this post.

 

But you have two stuns.....

 

Most Mara's CC Break the first one, but then you have your second to throw on in that case.

[TheOpf]

Pre- 1.2 it was usually a very close fight between myself and the competent Annihilation Marauders of equal gear on my server. Post 1.2 it's much harder, feels near impossible to compete with them in 1v1 situations. Anything you guys are doing that works for you. And so you know the competent Marauders save their relic for undying rage on my server so telling me too cc them during UR doesn't really help.

 

 

electrocute when they pop their shield, carbonize when they start their channeled attack, and then dps race them down. If you are not perfect, you will die. Better yet get the jump on them and then just frontload as much damage as possible forcing them to pop their shield. Hit them with electrocute and get away for a few seconds.

 

I think Agooz is right, we may have to put a guide up on how to combat certain classes. If you look at the Interview with the BH thread you will see a few ideas.

 

This thread might help - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=418569

Edited April 19, 2012 by TheOpf

[Agooz]

I've been stopping every marauder this morning with my new 18sec Energy Shield. I am loving it.

[Pubix]

The problem with marauders is they just have too much. Too much of what? Everything

 

Despite being the highest DPS Adv. Class in the game they have far to much utility and defensive capabilities built in.

 

Undying Rage is probably the biggest offender. Most marauders will argue that losing 50% of their current health is a huge cripple. What is 50% of your health when you only have 500 HP? Nothing at that point, It just allows a guaranteed 5 seconds of invincibility.

 

Saber ward is the next largest offender. What it does it pretty much gimp you (As a Powertech) for 12 seconds. With another 50% Melee and Ranged Defense the Marauder will pretty much deflect any rail shot that you have causing you to hold off using this ability for 12 seconds. Your remaining damaging abilities will also be cut down in damage by 25% (Dots, Rocket Punch, Flame Burst, Thermal Detonator).

 

I wouldn't have such a beef with cloak of pain given that either they removed the second effect of it or also added the second effect to Energy shield. 20% Damage reduction for 6 seconds doesn't seem like it helps much until the second effect kicks in and it lasts 30 seconds. The worst part? It has a 60 second cooldown.

 

Predation is a rough ability to deal with. Not only will it make the enemy marauder able to dance circles around you but it serves as a defensive cooldown as well as an escape. 10% defense looks small on paper until they can deflect your rail shot completely.

 

Obfuscate is a huge pain to deal with. Luckily most Marauders (All the bad ones) will often not even use this skill. 90% accuracy reduction of their target for 6 seconds is a massive, massive crutch.

 

If it wasn't bad enough that a marauder needed an unnecessary amount of defensive cooldowns they also have the ability to just take off if things don't go their way with Force Camouflage. This coupled with predation is almost a guaranteed escape.

 

Unfortunately "saving your stuns" doesn't work when the enemy can chain defensive cooldowns for 57 seconds

[12(saber Ward) + 30 (Cloak of Pain) + 10(Predation) + 5(Undying rage)] In addition to another 6 of your inability to hit your target.

 

They have five defensive cooldowns, an offensive accuracy cripple, two escape and more damage as as opposed to a Powertechs one cooldown, and two stuns.

 

TL:DR You can't.

[TheOpf]

 

Saber ward is the next largest offender. What it does it pretty much gimp you (As a Powertech) for 12 seconds. With another 50% Melee and Ranged Defense the Marauder will pretty much deflect any rail shot that you have causing you to hold off using this ability for 12 seconds. Your remaining damaging abilities will also be cut down in damage by 25% (Dots, Rocket Punch, Flame Burst, Thermal Detonator).

 

You mean gimp Pyro's. You can't deflect AP ;p.

[Pubix]

You mean gimp Pyro's. You can't deflect AP ;p.

 

I'm too afraid to try AP actually. It seems very interesting but I don't like how 99% of the damage has to be done within 5 meters of the target. Looks like a quick way to get focused down being that we only have the one cooldown.

 

How is it on an honest PvP basis? Can you put out the damage to take down a healer now? Is it prevalent in 1v1 situations?

[anwg]

As pyro, carbonize ravage, hope he uses cc breaker, get him down to 40%, TD, stun, RS and hope those finishes him off before he uses undying rage.

[Mc_Gregor]

It is possible to win using all the cooldowns you have. Then again, I dont think the game is supposed to be balanced towards 1v1 combat.

[Joeblows]

It is possible to win using all the cooldowns you have. Then again, I dont think the game is supposed to be balanced towards 1v1 combat.

 

but if one class is to strong 1 vs 1 the problem will be even more of a problem if you get more of them...

 

And thus it will unbalance a game...

 

Im not complaining ( i did before 1.2 landed) im mercenary and have it tough but i also have a mara so im beginning to see a pattern when you get to many of one class....

[Zarovich]

The problem with marauders is they just have too much. Too much of what? Everything

 

Despite being the highest DPS Adv. Class in the game they have far to much utility and defensive capabilities built in.

 

Undying Rage is probably the biggest offender. Most marauders will argue that losing 50% of their current health is a huge cripple. What is 50% of your health when you only have 500 HP? Nothing at that point, It just allows a guaranteed 5 seconds of invincibility.

 

Saber ward is the next largest offender. What it does it pretty much gimp you (As a Powertech) for 12 seconds. With another 50% Melee and Ranged Defense the Marauder will pretty much deflect any rail shot that you have causing you to hold off using this ability for 12 seconds. Your remaining damaging abilities will also be cut down in damage by 25% (Dots, Rocket Punch, Flame Burst, Thermal Detonator).

 

I wouldn't have such a beef with cloak of pain given that either they removed the second effect of it or also added the second effect to Energy shield. 20% Damage reduction for 6 seconds doesn't seem like it helps much until the second effect kicks in and it lasts 30 seconds. The worst part? It has a 60 second cooldown.

 

Predation is a rough ability to deal with. Not only will it make the enemy marauder able to dance circles around you but it serves as a defensive cooldown as well as an escape. 10% defense looks small on paper until they can deflect your rail shot completely.

 

Obfuscate is a huge pain to deal with. Luckily most Marauders (All the bad ones) will often not even use this skill. 90% accuracy reduction of their target for 6 seconds is a massive, massive crutch.

 

If it wasn't bad enough that a marauder needed an unnecessary amount of defensive cooldowns they also have the ability to just take off if things don't go their way with Force Camouflage. This coupled with predation is almost a guaranteed escape.

 

Unfortunately "saving your stuns" doesn't work when the enemy can chain defensive cooldowns for 57 seconds

[12(saber Ward) + 30 (Cloak of Pain) + 10(Predation) + 5(Undying rage)] In addition to another 6 of your inability to hit your target.

 

They have five defensive cooldowns, an offensive accuracy cripple, two escape and more damage as as opposed to a Powertechs one cooldown, and two stuns.

 

TL:DR You can't.

 

And then you throw in the fact that their most popular spec (Annilation) can heal themselves for 70K+ per WZ match. This class really doesn't have any weaknesses. Rock, Paper, Scissor, doesn't apply to them.

[BlazingShadow]

Honestly, I went shieldtech (from AP) because of how many marauders there are now. pre-1.2 they were cake, tbh, but now... too many, too many cooldowns. At least with Shieldtech the shield genny actually helps against their ranged DPS. Not much, but it does help.

[Rotanartlu]

And then you throw in the fact that their most popular spec (Annilation) can heal themselves for 70K+ per WZ match. This class really doesn't have any weaknesses. Rock, Paper, Scissor, doesn't apply to them.

 

Umm no? That is party heals.

 

Just interrupt ravage with a stun/grip before its over with....the longer u wait before it ends the better. Then use another stun when they use guarded by the force or just run away. Their other defensive cds aren't counterable and one is 5min cd so don't worry so much. Aoe won't work to get them out of stealth and shouldn't have to worry about it if your ahead go do objectives.

[Pajn]

Honestly, I went shieldtech (from AP) because of how many marauders there are now. pre-1.2 they were cake, tbh, but now... too many, too many cooldowns. At least with Shieldtech the shield genny actually helps against their ranged DPS. Not much, but it does help.

 

So pre 1.2 they were easy but now, with the exact same amount of cooldowns, they have too many?

 

elaborate plz

[exphryl]

In general with 1.2, it's more useful to save your Stun for Ravage over Undying Rage. They'll do more damage in that 3 sec attack then you could ever hope for with their immunity. (I naturally assume Maras are Carnage now for Gore with the root. Our guild maras love it over Anni and it wrecks pretty much anybody that doesn't cancel it out. Doesn't help their other attacks still hit pretty damn hard)

 

I usually stun before the last tick so I get a free shot or two on them before the stun goes off.

 

Lesser of two evils I guess

Edited April 23, 2012 by exphryl

[ShiroRX]

In general with 1.2, it's more useful to save your Stun for Ravage over Undying Rage. They'll do more damage in that 3 sec attack then you could ever hope for with their immunity. (I naturally assume Maras are Carnage now for Gore with the root. Our guild maras love it over Anni and it wrecks pretty much anybody that doesn't cancel it out. Doesn't help their other attacks still hit pretty damn hard)

 

I usually stun before the last tick so I get a free shot or two on them before the stun goes off.

 

Lesser of two evils I guess

 

Still seeing vastly more Anni on Mandalore. From both factions. Having a BM Sent myself, its difficult to beat Juyo, even with the pvp utility of Ataru. An Ataru (Carnage/Combat) one can also be kited to DEATH if you're good since they won't have the distance reduction on leap.

[TheOpf]

So pre 1.2 they were easy but now, with the exact same amount of cooldowns, they have too many?

 

elaborate plz

 

No, in 1.2 they were difficult, but not impossible to kill. In the hands of a good player they could kill you, but you could kill them just as fast. It was a straight dps race.

 

Now it's a pop all cd's and pray I don't die in the 5 seconds that they have the ridiculous shield up. No one judges a marauder on 1v1 anymore, it's more about how many times they can kill 2 v 1 or 3 v1 before you kill them.

[ShiroRX]

No, in 1.2 they were difficult, but not impossible to kill. In the hands of a good player they could kill you, but you could kill them just as fast. It was a straight dps race.

 

Now it's a pop all cd's and pray I don't die in the 5 seconds that they have the ridiculous shield up. No one judges a marauder on 1v1 anymore, it's more about how many times they can kill 2 v 1 or 3 v1 before you kill them.

 

Oh i disagree. If a mara is around me and isn't on me, they're taunted and being obliterated. It's either try to kill me first or they aren't killing the dps or healer next to me, period.

[Agooz]

I actually am enjoying the new influx of Marau/Sents on the battlefield. That means there are less healers and tanks. In terms of 1v1 yea they are OP, but I can generally handle them just fine. Plus they are very predictable. But in terms of group mechanics, healers+tanks pose a bigger threat to winning a WZ.

[Zarovich]

A well played marauder is the hardest for me to play against in a 1v1 setting. Its not their damage that causes the most trouble for me, its all their defensive CD. Undying Rage is a problem since they become immune to damage for 5 seconds. Then there is Cloak of Pain thats on a 1 Min CD that prevents 20% of damage and then deals damage back at the attack plus it can last up to 30 seconds. So bascially you'll have to stop attacking/stun or something when this is going in order for it to only last 6 seconds. Next is their other ability Saber Ward which gives them 50% defense against Melee/range attacks plus it reduces damage from tech/force by 20% for 12 seconds. Then finally Obfuscate which drops the opponents accuracy by 90% for 6 seconds with a 4 minutes cooldown. I believe some of the better Marauders use this on the better players to make alot of their attacks miss.

 

Then when you tie in Ravage, thats alot of abilities that you should be stunned on but with only 2 stuns you have to pick your posion and hope you can survive long enough for help to arrive. Its really sad to say but marauders have more survivabilty then a DPS speced Jugg and maybe more then a Tank speced one too. And if by chance you get the upper hand on them, they force cloak away to hunt you down after they have healed up.

 

Heavy armor really doesn't mean much in this game and bioware refuses to except it. They claim its great against light saber wielders and Snipers/Gunslingers but with their damage getting ramped up the past few patches for these classes, they may as well be doing tech/elemental damage it seems.

 

PVP is a damage race with who has the most crits and has the most defensive cooldowns.

[ShiroRX]

A well played marauder is the hardest for me to play against in a 1v1 setting. Its not their damage that causes the most trouble for me, its all their defensive CD. Undying Rage is a problem since they become immune to damage for 5 seconds. Then there is Cloak of Pain thats on a 1 Min CD that prevents 20% of damage and then deals damage back at the attack plus it can last up to 30 seconds. So bascially you'll have to stop attacking/stun or something when this is going in order for it to only last 6 seconds. Next is their other ability Saber Ward which gives them 50% defense against Melee/range attacks plus it reduces damage from tech/force by 20% for 12 seconds. Then finally Obfuscate which drops the opponents accuracy by 90% for 6 seconds with a 4 minutes cooldown. I believe some of the better Marauders use this on the better players to make alot of their attacks miss.

 

Then when you tie in Ravage, thats alot of abilities that you should be stunned on but with only 2 stuns you have to pick your posion and hope you can survive long enough for help to arrive. Its really sad to say but marauders have more survivabilty then a DPS speced Jugg and maybe more then a Tank speced one too. And if by chance you get the upper hand on them, they force cloak away to hunt you down after they have healed up.

 

Heavy armor really doesn't mean much in this game and bioware refuses to except it. They claim its great against light saber wielders and Snipers/Gunslingers but with their damage getting ramped up the past few patches for these classes, they may as well be doing tech/elemental damage it seems.

 

PVP is a damage race with who has the most crits and has the most defensive cooldowns.

 

Heavy armor does help. Your lifebar is never gonna drop with the sheer velocity of sorcs, snipers, and operatives.

[TheOpf]

I actually am enjoying the new influx of Marau/Sents on the battlefield. That means there are less healers and tanks. In terms of 1v1 yea they are OP, but I can generally handle them just fine. Plus they are very predictable. But in terms of group mechanics, healers+tanks pose a bigger threat to winning a WZ.

 

I will give you that, plus the fact that a lot of new marauders are not very good helps ;p.

[Zarovich]

Heavy armor does help. Your lifebar is never gonna drop with the sheer velocity of sorcs, snipers, and operatives.

 

Its funny you mentioned Sorcs since all their attacks ignore armor and most of operatives since their is tech based.

[TheOpf]

Its funny you mentioned Sorcs since all their attacks ignore armor and most of operatives since their is tech based.

 

I believe that was his point. He was being ironic.

[Zarovich]

I believe that was his point. He was being ironic.

 

I guess that threw me off since he had Snipers in there and supposedly most of their damage is mitigated by armor.