1.2.0c Ninja Arsenal Nerf?

[tavrinDosa]

After 4 month of farming and getting good result in pve, after lot's of run to have the best gear / mods on your char, have 2 nerf that kills a class, well i think i'm gonna whine for a while.

Also because it looks that this nerf is a bug, because makes ridicoulus the dps of an entire build, no exception, also the most skilled player of the world can't deal with it.

They wrote that bh mechanics will be changed, because they do not like the rotation players do, well seems fine to me, but this is not a change of rotation this is the end of mercs with arsenal build, and i really don't think this was the starting intention.

No matter how, they make me play a class for month, a build for month that amused me, i will appreciate a change not this.

Ask youself why, after a boost of subscription now, servers looks like desert and finally they are considering to merge, this behavior is not professional and i'm not speaking only about this "nerf".

You say that's only a game? Ok it's right, but it's a game i bought and i'm still payng for.

And about a constructive message if you read all the post we found what was the problem and we're still waiting for an answer by bioware, but meanwhile this is creating lot's of trubles for the setup of the operation of this evening.

I'm sorry. i'm really sorry to be so hungry, do not take it personally but i'm really pissed up by this behaviour.

 

Drop it. this isn't helping the situation. continue focusing on the issue; undoing this unnecessary nerf. Merc has little to no survivability, Our entire rotation is based off of casting in a game where every class has 1 or more interrupts, and since we have 0 utility in pvp, the only thing this class had going for them was burst dps. We have completely been thrown to the dogs with this last patch. something has to be done!

Edited April 19, 2012 by tavrinDosa

[Ornery]

Nerf Tracer and Buff Heatseeker was a perfectly reasonable tweak to the class. Hell even with a slight decrease in overall DPS it was still fine.

 

But this? Nerf tracer and then a couple of weeks later nerf the new heatseeker as well? That's just cold.

 

Combined with the now pointlessly small DFA, my raiding main is now a liability. Awesome.

 

And it's not like I can just spec pyro, since we're already heavy on mDPS.

[Aristarco]

Ok let's have a general view of Mercenary with Arsenal build:

1) PVE: with the heat we can't spam, with the change of gear we dropped stat and crit increasing the value of the hit during long fight, means less dps first of all making necessary to insert rapid shot in rotation to vent something more, then, the nerf of tracer is really important, but also the heat seeker, i understood it will be powered seems nerfed to me as well, so looking and comparing with other classes now my dps is lower than an assassin, or a sniper but most of all really low confronting it to a sorcerer. This data has been taken with a nice program called mox parser, that gives you the dps and the raid damage. Sorcerer, rakata geared, compared to mercenary as well rakata geared do in a 5 minutes fight 450 dps less. This is a huge difference, really important for any guild master to consider people to put in an operation with endgaming purpouse.

 

2) PVP: Before this patches everibody was whining about the single rotation of the mercenary, but we got to understand that tracer was interruptable, and a bh without stack on a target was nearly useless in terms of killing it so, it's impossible to kite people in this game, grips, bouncing, charges makes it madness thinking of it, you can only think to use terrain in your advantage such as hiding when possible and running behind obstacles, if someone gets you in a melee range and you've used your cd's you're dead meat. Killing a marauder is like killing a boss in pve, requires an extreme skill and also a great dose of luckiness.

Considering that the main ability now deals about 1k dmg in pvp fights with 1.5 second fight, and a saber trow makes 3.9k dmg, istant the problem seems so evident that i can't understand why people and developers can't see it, putting 3 tracer to get the 5 stack you need to do a severe damage with out best dps istant cast the heat seeker means 4.5 seconds, more 1 of the global cd, considering the delay 6 second without any interruption, that in pvp never happens to make about 5k dmg, that was before, now it's less but a lot, making ridicoulus to play this class in my opinion, and we have to consider a lot og other variabiles, such as defensive cd, every class had some, healing class, vanishing class, they all can do something we are instead blocked to our fate, only thing are kolto overload (an hot) and a reducing damage shield, but this stuff did not gives us any survivability, only slows our death.

As some written before the dps burst we have was a way of playng, till the death, you or me, now looks like, i'm doing my best but.... i wish.. oh i'll do this nice i critted you for 2k ohhhhh you hit me dor 4,3 i'm dead.

Please Bioware consider this.

[albynomonk]

I never have to resort to rapid shots in a long fight... you need to manage your heat better.

[Glorionn]

I never have to resort to rapid shots in a long fight... you need to manage your heat better.

 

Give me a 6-8 minute dummy parse where you dont use RS. Would love to see it. I sustain 1300 DPS whilst using RS.

[Vulgarr]

yeah, i have given this patch a week and im not having fun at all on my bounty hunter now.

 

1. they made us weaker somehow in pvp. people are killing me in my full BM set in 4 hits. sometimes 3.

2. they killed our dps and broke some abilities. (heatseaker missile)

3. all classes companions are glitched to whenever you mount, or die, or load into a different area their equipments stats are not registering and you have to unequip all of their inventory and reequip everything to fix it. every single time.

4. GTN glitch.

5. they killed ilum (before 1.2)

6. postponed rated warzones.

7. still havent optimized the engine for better framerates.

 

 

im fed up. im going to give it a few more days, but after this week if they dont get their **** together, im out. ill wait for GW2. this patch was horrible, wasnt looking forward to anything they were adding really, and i was very happy with my BH in a pvp environment before 1.2. it didnt feel OP or underpowered, it felt just right, felt like a level playing field.

 

 

and as far as arsenal goes, they changed rail shot from being able to use it randomly after using unload to only able to use it while someone is incapacitated or under the influence of the only dot arsenal has that has has a cast time and huge heat cost.

 

hope they do something before the weeks out, but as it is now theres way too much they have changed.

[Jeighkub]

Has a dev posted anything about this on the the trooper side or in another thread? I am in an ops now and getting out DPS'ed right and left. I always used to be top 2. Edited April 20, 2012 by Jeighkub

[DkSharktooth]

4 tracer missile dps bounty hunters in my raid yesterday. Heatseeker missile crits for 14k's with cooldowns poped.

 

4 tracer missile dps bounty hunters in my raid today. Tracer missile crits for 4.4k-5k

 

My spot on dps meters went from 10% above everyone to 2% below sorcs.

 

Not rage quitting or anything, but I think BW owes me a new keyboard from smashing my face into it so hard today.

Edited April 20, 2012 by DkSharktooth

[Hvostik]

swtor - FOTM game

today Mara and Assasin - fotm chars.

after some month fotm become chenges (becose 80% of WZ population become fotm chars)

and pipl must rise up new chars and pay subscribe

after next month fotm chars renew again.

 

with HM we sometimes can kill that FOTM chars - it not god.

and must be nerfed asap.

 

jast relax and train mara-assasin twink and pay subscribe

maibe sometimes merc become fotm

 

but BW! you not have time for that! )

less then 30 day for DIABLO 3 incaming! BW you time ower!

Edited April 20, 2012 by Hvostik

[greviouz]

swtor - FOTM game

today Mara and Assasin - fotm chars.

after some month fotm become chenges (becose 80% of WZ population become fotm chars)

and pipl must rise up new chars and pay subscribe

after next month fotm chars renew again.

 

with HM we sometimes can kill that FOTM chars - it not god.

and must be nerfed asap.

 

jast relax and train mara-assasin twink and pay subscribe

maibe sometimes merc become fotm

 

but BW! you not have time for that! )

less then 30 day for DIABLO 3 incaming! BW you time ower!

 

You didnt even manage to make one ONE! sensible sentence. Just incoherent babbling

[Aristarco]

I am really beginning to think that Bioware has no idea what a QA enviornment is. Honestly, do they ever test the changes that they make to code? This seems like a stupid oversight that could easily have been identified if they tested these changes before they pushed out another patch "fix".

 

I think a typical Bioware Dev staff meeting goes like this:

 

Dev1 - "Heatseeker Missles is hitting for like 8k, something is wrong guys"

Dev2 - "Yeah it seems to be stacking with other BH Heat Signatures"

Dev1 - "Understood, lets just delete the part of code that buffs Heatseeker Missles, that will most likely fix the problem"

Dev2 - "Right away sir, code deleted. Lets push a patch to the Prod enviornment right now"

Dev1 - "BRILLIANT"

 

This is just getting ridiculous. I'm losing all faith in Bioware that they can actually maintain an MMO for more that 6 months. They nerf'd Arsenals survivability, provided no new utility, and now a ninja nerf to our damage. I know it will likely get fixed, but good lord... what a bunch of amatures... (not sure how to spell that lol)

 

Heavy words, but....

Edited April 20, 2012 by Aristarco

[Mancer]

After the original nerf in 1.2 I went to pyro. I seen this post yesterday went home re-spec'd and well...

My tracer was as it was after 1.2 but after 5 heat sigs my heatseeker does a whopping 770.

Please take another look and Arsenal Merc BW, what was done to this class simply was not right.

[Rakunvar]

How are you guys getting these results or did they fix this recently? I didn't catch any change but I have been busy with raid mechanics honestly... My Tracer hits for around 1500-2100 non crit and 2600ish crit, heatseeker was doing 2.5 range non crit to 4500 crit. These are non raid, non buffed, Full rakata/different mods. Maybe I am just very tired atm..

[Harridan]

There's also an issue that was proposed in the Commando forums that even our own Heat Signatures were being counted twice and that they merely fixed that issue, so "working as intended with 1.2c". However, double counting was an issue that was supposedly remedied with 1.2:

 

"Heatseeker Missiles' damage output has been increased by approximately 10%. Bonus damage dealt by this ability now correctly takes the number of your Heat Signatures on the target into account. "

 

So, 2 possibilities exist as solo damage output changed from prior to 1.2c:

1) It was not fixed as stated in 1.2; or

2) They did break something.

 

I'm hoping the latter, but the former is entirely possible, and very disheartening.

[Rakunvar]

Now that I am looking at my logs closer I do see way higher damage from heatseeker before that patch and I just didnt even notice it now. The amount it is doing now does sound about right...but O m g thats a horridly low amount... I was wondering why I was so low on the charts..

[Aerro]

Now that I am looking at my logs closer I do see way higher damage from heatseeker before that patch and I just didnt even notice it now. The amount it is doing now does sound about right...but O m g thats a horridly low amount... I was wondering why I was so low on the charts..

 

As our strongest hitting ability on a 15sec cooldown, it shouldn't be barely above Tracer Missile. This is ridiculous.

[Harridan]

Saw this on the Dev Tracker from Georg Zoeller:

 

"(b) In response to your feedback, we've re-tested all classes to ensure they are falling within our desired DPS targets and found one issue with Demo Round / Heatseeker Missile which was getting increased DPS, not just from other people's stacks but also from an unwanted interaction with other skills. That issue was corrected in the 1.2.0c patch this week."

 

So, looks like it's not broken, but working as intended now. May be some re-balancing issues, but that takes significantly longer than fixing something that's broken.

[Somled]

Is there a reason devs have not said anything about our hs damage ?

 

Im getting worried and im nothing but a joke damagewise in wz with a mox of wh/bm gear

 

1.6k hs crit with 5 heatsigs of win ....

[Splaktar]

I ran EV last night w/ no other BHs and I noticed about a 200 DPS reduction on most all fights. Most of my HSM were hitting for 2400-2600. I certainly didn't see any big crits that made me take notice. While I was always one of the top damage dealers in our raids, I think that I'm likely right around even with some of the guys from other classes in lesser Tion/Cent gear now.

[Mancer]

Drop it. this isn't helping the situation. continue focusing on the issue; undoing this unnecessary nerf. Merc has little to no survivability, Our entire rotation is based off of casting in a game where every class has 1 or more interrupts, and since we have 0 utility in pvp, the only thing this class had going for them was burst dps. We have completely been thrown to the dogs with this last patch. something has to be done! [quote][/quote]

 

I can go on about the gear I have but doesnt matter. Out DPS'd in Ops now makes me a liabilty, forget how I am affected in PVP which to me is the biggest issue. Working as intended? I hope that is not your formal and last stand on the issue BW.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Mancer

[SammuelSK]

Saw this on the Dev Tracker from Georg Zoeller:

 

"(b) In response to your feedback, we've re-tested all classes to ensure they are falling within our desired DPS targets and found one issue with Demo Round / Heatseeker Missile which was getting increased DPS, not just from other people's stacks but also from an unwanted interaction with other skills. That issue was corrected in the 1.2.0c patch this week."

 

So, looks like it's not broken, but working as intended now. May be some re-balancing issues, but that takes significantly longer than fixing something that's broken.

 

On a targetting dummy without any stacks HS's lowest hit was 1891, and with 5 stacks 1901. That REALLY doesn't seem like a 25% increase to me.. so something is definately not working correctly.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Wekeltes

[Yazule]

Give me a 6-8 minute dummy parse where you dont use RS. Would love to see it. I sustain 1300 DPS whilst using RS.

 

yeah very intermittantly i have to throw one in here and there as well.

 

Tested on the dummy and RS pulls 500-550 dps, on a long fight I am averaging 1100 to 1200... practics makes perfect i am sure I can get it up to 1300 by just getting better disciplined in my rotation and priority.

 

i was actually surprised to see the 500dps on RS, i always feel so useless when i have to run and gun with it but i am apparently only half useless

[Poe_]

Two things...

On a targetting dummy without any stacks HS's lowest hit was 1891, and with 5 stacks 1901. That REALLY doesn't seem like a 25% increase to me.. so something is definately not working correctly.

MUST MUST MUST report in game as a bug you guys! Get the logs, and get the bug reports posted - the more we can get them to even glance this way the better chance if something is broken, that it will be fixed.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Wekeltes

[Yazule]

Saw this on the Dev Tracker from Georg Zoeller:

 

"(b) In response to your feedback, we've re-tested all classes to ensure they are falling within our desired DPS targets and found one issue with Demo Round / Heatseeker Missile which was getting increased DPS, not just from other people's stacks but also from an unwanted interaction with other skills. That issue was corrected in the 1.2.0c patch this week."

 

So, looks like it's not broken, but working as intended now. May be some re-balancing issues, but that takes significantly longer than fixing something that's broken.

 

you really think the "feedback" they are talking about is yesterdays? this is old news, keep up the squeeky wheel, they will test and fix it, it is obviously broken.

[SammuelSK]

MUST MUST MUST report in game as a bug you guys! Get the logs, and get the bug reports posted - the more we can get them to even glance this way the better chance if something is broken, that it will be fixed.

 

Yeah, did that already. I don't mind bugs getting through, but I do have an expectation that they at least check their damn work. This is an easy bug to catch, all it would have taken was the dev responsible for it to doublecheck the changes run a minute or two of tests and he would have caught it. While I apparently am not allowed to call devs stup... oh right can't use that word either because it apparently bruises their delicate ego's, this getting through is borderline ".......". Instead we get saddled with a bug that will probably be ingame for a week or two while they sort out one "......" mistakes.

Edited April 20, 2012 by SammuelSK