Why do fresh 50's have the same gear as me

[Syylara]

Yes, they should have to work for their gear, same as me. And all the while I'll farm those helpless noobs and swell in my sense of entitlement and superiority, because I had to slog my way up painfully with better-geared players farming me when I started out, and by God they should have to do it too!

 

Man, whatever.

 

Back in my day we had to exploit Ilum to get geared up that fast!

 

:9

[LordbishopX]

Yes, they should have to work for their gear, same as me. And all the while I'll farm those helpless noobs and swell in my sense of entitlement and superiority, because I had to slog my way up painfully with better-geared players farming me when I started out, and by God they should have to do it too!

 

Man, whatever.

 

You mean the level 50 that use to farm level 10 and got valor faster than you can ever dream of on iLum? It's funny everyone comes here and says I did it the hard way >.> guess all those peeps was imaginary on iLum day and night lol.

 

I was late to the party and damn I admit it I miss the bridge war 30 kills in under 30 minutes weekly done in a night yep rough life that I didn't get to partake in to long ><;;....

Edited April 19, 2012 by LordbishopX

[TheMunny]

Let me put a perspective on your preceived perspective, not that proving anything to you will matter in the grand scheme of things.

 

I play every other night on SWTOR because I have a family. The family consists of 2 kids and a wife. They make sure dad is happy by allowing me personal time and I make sure they are happy by doing things they want to do every other day. Don't be mad that I have better time management and life schedule than you.

 

Rofl, I have 2 kids and a wife as well. Yet, wife be damned if she doesn't have other things to occupy my time with. Usually, my game time is limited to after the kids go to bed, then, if I can manage to put aside a few hours I will play, if not, no biggie the force won't miss me.

 

So, by all means, you should be able to roflstomp me with superior skills from having more practice time and not just due to a gear gap, do you agree?

[fuzzDONTEVENTRIP]

How long did it take you to get Champion?

 

That is the proper comparison to make here.

 

Pre-1.2 Champion was the middle tier of gear, post 1.2 BM is the middle tier of gear.

 

So you compare old Champion to new BM and compare old BM to WH.

 

Also, you are overlooking that fresh 50 to BM, the gap was widened massively from them raising the amount of Expertise on each piece while also lifting the diminishing returns cap significantly.

 

What was the % gap from Centurion-to-Champion previously? What is the % gap from Recruit-to-BM now? That would be the equivalent comparison.

 

Im sorry, but BM =/= Champ. Even with the pre-1.2 system your comms relied soley on bags. If i were to be getting BM on this current system, id have ~19K wz comms already (after i bought 2 BM pieces with wz comms). I dont know how much the total cost is for BM, but im assuming i could get full BM already (less than a week). Granted i have played a lot more than 99% of the other players. With the pre-1.2 system it didnt matter how much i played as long i did my dailies/weeklies to get my bags. Getting bags via wz/merc comms was fine, but took awhile as well. I honestly cant remember how long it took me to get full champ because i was more worried about getting BM gear.

 

So fresh 50s will still need to pay their dues and grind it out like everyone else had to. I got my butt kicked for a few weeks when i dinged 50, but that was part of the process. I couldnt buy my gear like you can now, nor could i use my wz comms do directly purchase BM gear.

 

-fuzz

[fuzzDONTEVENTRIP]

Rofl, I have 2 kids and a wife as well. Yet, wife be damned if she doesn't have other things to occupy my time with. Usually, my game time is limited to after the kids go to bed, then, if I can manage to put aside a few hours I will play, if not, no biggie the force won't miss me.

 

So, by all means, you should be able to roflstomp me with superior skills from having more practice time and not just due to a gear gap, do you agree?

 

Gear up then play him. He shouldnt have to be geared down to play you just because your fam wont let you play.

 

-fuzz

[bakedpotter]

Made it through three pages and not one person mentioned that it takes 11000+ comms for a full set of battlemaster. So if everything goes right and you win every match you are seriously going to state that you win 110 matches in three days. Sad. Edited April 19, 2012 by bakedpotter

[DarkDruidSS]

Source? Last I heard it was 3:1.

 

I could very well be mistaken and if i am I apologize. I didn't have the time to check everything and I did see that you can convert ranked to WZ 1:1. I also saw that you can start converting WZ to ranked at level 40. Even if it was 3:1 then you would still be able to get a considerable advantage by converting WZ to ranked prior to 50 just like we all used to convert WZ to Merc pre-50 so that we could get 6 champ bags at level 50.

 

That also doesn't change the fact that you don't need ranked comms until you are full BM geared. The difference in BM to WH is smaller than the difference from Recruit to BM. So realistically it doesn't change the fact that getting full BM gear as fast as possible is desired.

[djluxi]

I love how bad players feel threatened and immediately qq when the slightest advantage is taken away from them. I love it even more when they start flaming every time someone points out the truth. And their last argument is always go play CoD or GW2, what a poor argumen indeed... well i dont like CoD but guess what when GW2 hits i sure wont be here anymore... and so is a lot of good pvpers (not that i count myself as one).

 

When are u people gonna see that stat difference has no place in pvp, that 90% of the time by beating a guy all you are proving is u have less real life obligation then he does instead of showing your skills. Progression/rewards in pvp should be just like in all other competitive sports/games of bragging nature... ranks/titles/costumes/mounts/emotes etc... no real advantage or all balance is gone.

 

Plus even in the current system players like op seem to forget that when they started playing this game no one had full epic pvp sets and teams were a lot more equally geared... nowdays more then half have maxed out pvp gear so entering as a new player is a completely different experience then what it was a couple of moths ago, so why do you think the grind should be the same when the experience is so different.

 

You gotta let people catch up unless you are too afraid you are gonna get left behind.

[flayzerannyx]

PvE'rs who suck at PvP coming in telling true PvP'ers how our aspect of the game should be ran. Go back to PvE'ing. You dont see us suggesting that you should have no gear progression or content to work towards. You earn what you get. If you cant earn the proper gear, then youre either A) not good enough and would lose even in your "fair fight" dream world or B) dont play enough and SHOULDNT have the same gear as someone who plays 10x more than you.

 

-fuzz

 

true that

[Syylara]

Im sorry, but BM =/= Champ. Even with the pre-1.2 system your comms relied soley on bags. If i were to be getting BM on this current system, id have ~19K wz comms already (after i bought 2 BM pieces with wz comms). I dont know how much the total cost is for BM, but im assuming i could get full BM already (less than a week). Granted i have played a lot more than 99% of the other players. With the pre-1.2 system it didnt matter how much i played as long i did my dailies/weeklies to get my bags. Getting bags via wz/merc comms was fine, but took awhile as well. I honestly cant remember how long it took me to get full champ because i was more worried about getting BM gear.

 

So fresh 50s will still need to pay their dues and grind it out like everyone else had to. I got my butt kicked for a few weeks when i dinged 50, but that was part of the process. I couldnt buy my gear like you can now, nor could i use my wz comms do directly purchase BM gear.

 

-fuzz

 

Average number of hours played to achieve a given tier and the degree of performance difference between those tiers is the matter I am asking you to focus on. BM is not the top tier anymore, so it does not require top-tier time commitment.

 

I notice that rather than answer any of my questions or address any of my points, you crafted a lengthy set of rationalizations to sidestep them entirely.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Syylara

[TheMunny]

Gear up then play him. He shouldnt have to be geared down to play you just because your fam wont let you play.

 

-fuzz

 

But I thought the whole point of competitive PvP was to play on equal terms, or gear gaps with slightly better stats, not gear gaps that = an IWIN button??

[LordbishopX]

Im sorry, but BM =/= Champ. Even with the pre-1.2 system your comms relied soley on bags. If i were to be getting BM on this current system, id have ~19K wz comms already (after i bought 2 BM pieces with wz comms). I dont know how much the total cost is for BM, but im assuming i could get full BM already (less than a week). Granted i have played a lot more than 99% of the other players. With the pre-1.2 system it didnt matter how much i played as long i did my dailies/weeklies to get my bags. Getting bags via wz/merc comms was fine, but took awhile as well. I honestly cant remember how long it took me to get full champ because i was more worried about getting BM gear.

 

So fresh 50s will still need to pay their dues and grind it out like everyone else had to. I got my butt kicked for a few weeks when i dinged 50, but that was part of the process. I couldnt buy my gear like you can now, nor could i use my wz comms do directly purchase BM gear.

 

-fuzz

 

Full champ went really fast it only cost 800 wz per bag and we revived at least 20 bags I believe from dailies/weeklies.In completing the daily wz I get enough for a bag almost every night. 7 champ/ 15 cent. and wz comms was way easier to get never 0. I had almost 1000/1000 cent and champ comms lol.. After full gearing me BM and a few of my companions. in champ and Cent gear.

 

Champ gear costed around 69 comms and like 128 for weapon it didn't take long the random number generator and 4000 wz for a BM comm that took more time if unlucky.

Edited April 19, 2012 by LordbishopX

[flayzerannyx]

i think there should be a difference. If i choose to play 10 hours a day, i think i should have an advantage. But that advantage should be manageable. As it stands now, that gap is utterly stupid, no amount of skill can make up for the difference in expertise and that is wrong.

[DarkDruidSS]

Rofl, I have 2 kids and a wife as well. Yet, wife be damned if she doesn't have other things to occupy my time with. Usually, my game time is limited to after the kids go to bed, then, if I can manage to put aside a few hours I will play, if not, no biggie the force won't miss me.

 

So, by all means, you should be able to roflstomp me with superior skills from having more practice time and not just due to a gear gap, do you agree?

 

I am sorry... I fail to see the point of your debate. When did I say I was better than you in-game or anything about a gear gap? I considered myself to be above average. I play very well on my sniper. Can people beat me? Yea, of course they can. Am I some pro? no. I have never been in the MLG or had a sponsor due to real life obligations and the fact that despite my wife allowing me to play she doesn't really like that I do play. She dated a gamer for 4 years before we got married and we have been married for 7 years. So she knows that isn't changing.

 

My point in this thread is that you have to have progression in a game to retain players. Cosmetic progression alone is probably not enough. GW2 will not be the savior that people are looking for. That is back to the point of this thread.

[LordbishopX]

i think there should be a difference. If i choose to play 10 hours a day, i think i should have an advantage. But that advantage should be manageable. As it stands now, that gap is utterly stupid, no amount of skill can make up for the difference in expertise and that is wrong.

 

If you play 10 hours a day you should be skilled to the point that gear wouldn't matter in the least......

[Jatne]

I love how bad players feel threatened and immediately qq when the slightest advantage is taken away from them. I love it even more when they start flaming every time someone points out the truth. And their last argument is always go play CoD or GW2, what a poor argumen indeed... well i dont like CoD but guess what when GW2 hits i sure wont be here anymore... and so is a lot of good pvpers (not that i count myself as one).

 

When are u people gonna see that stat difference has no place in pvp, that 90% of the time by beating a guy all you are proving is u have less real life obligation then he does instead of showing your skills. Progression/rewards in pvp should be just like in all other competitive sports/games of bragging nature... ranks/titles/costumes/mounts/emotes etc... no real advantage or all balance is gone.

 

Plus even in the current system players like op seem to forget that when they started playing this game no one had full epic pvp sets and teams were a lot more equally geared... nowdays more then half have maxed out pvp gear so entering as a new player is a completely different experience then what it was a couple of moths ago, so why do you think the grind should be the same when the experience is so different.

 

You gotta let people catch up unless you are too afraid you are gonna get left behind.

 

I don't really care one way or another.

 

However, the issue is not the advantage. It is the fact that gear used to have a 'status' attached to it. You couldn't just hit 50 and be fully geared in a week.

 

You had to grind through tiers of gear, which are now handed out without any regard for people who participated in a status centred system.

 

It's like saving up for years to buy a Ferrari, only to have Stalin take over and make Ferraris the only car in production.

 

It is definitely progress, all leading onto the rated gear. I can however understand the frustration some people feel.

 

I will finish by saying that without this change, the game would go stale very fast as new people would never be able to catch up to players who had been playing. This 'barrier to entry' is counter productive and therefore it is my opinion that the changes are positive.

[fuzzDONTEVENTRIP]

average number of hours played to achieve a given tier and the degree of performance difference between those tiers is the matter I am asking you to focus on.

 

I notice that rather than answer any of my questions or address any of my points, you crafted a lengthy set of rationalizations to sidestep them entirely.

 

Sorry, i didnt feel the need to have to do all the research for you. If you want to make your point, provide your own research. BM =/= Champ in pre-1.2. Totally different system of obtaining too.

 

I love everyone over-analyzing everything in this game. Its simple. You guys are just beating it to death trying to find answers for everything instead of just playing, gearing up and getting better. More time available = more WZs played = more WZ comms = better gear.

 

I bet you guys are the same people in COD who crouch in corners thinking youre safe because its "tactically" correct in the real world. But then i come flying around the corner prefiring you through the wall killing you before you even see me. Just play the game and everything will take care of itself

 

-fuzz

[tatatan]

@ all SAME gear LOVERs: this is RPG game, if you want same gear, go play Quake III Arena, or similar - there, you'll get your 'pure skillZZ killZZ' and you can boast of your 1337 'killZZ' counters

 

It's not fair? Life's not fair either, suck it up.

[Khoraji]

Sorry, i didnt feel the need to have to do all the research for you. If you want to make your point, provide your own research. BM =/= Champ in pre-1.2. Totally different system of obtaining too.

 

I love everyone over-analyzing everything in this game. Its simple. You guys are just beating it to death trying to find answers for everything instead of just playing, gearing up and getting better. More time available = more WZs played = more WZ comms = better gear.

 

I bet you guys are the same people in COD who crouch in corners thinking youre safe because its "tactically" correct in the real world. But then i come flying around the corner prefiring you through the wall killing you before you even see me. Just play the game and everything will take care of itself

 

-fuzz

 

lol, love the analogy.

[fuzzDONTEVENTRIP]

Full champ went really fast it only cost 800 wz per bag and we revived at least 20 bags I believe from dailies/weeklies.In completing the daily wz I get enough for a bag almost every night. 7 champ/ 15 cent. and wz comms was way easier to get never 0. I had almost 1000/1000 cent and champ comms lol.. After full gearing me BM and a few of my companions. in champ and Cent gear.

 

Yea man i honestly dont remember how long it took me to fully gear. I just remember it taking around 64comms per piece and that after i was done, i had to buy a whole nother set for the mods/enh i needed. Im pretty sure i wasnt winning like i am now too so i wasnt getting WZ comms as quickly

 

-fuzz

[AAmedeo]

Skill?

 

What the hell skill is there to button pushing that have timers for CD? You can't push them faster than I, and there are only a few good skills. You might hit a CC ability, a few DPS abilities, and a defensive one. You think you win more matches than I because you have found a special combination of those buttons that is so much better than the way I push them? Man you have an ego.

 

This is an MMORPG, you play a CHARACTER. If your character can beat mine is the point. No reflection on if you are better, your character is.

[LordbishopX]

Skill?

 

What the hell skill is there to button pushing that have timers for CD? You can't push them faster than I, and there are only a few good skills. You might hit a CC ability, a few DPS abilities, and a defensive one. You think you win more matches than I because you have found a special combination of those buttons that is so much better than the way I push them? Man you have an ego.

 

This is an MMORPG, you play a CHARACTER. If your character can beat mine is the point. No reflection on if you are better, your character is.

 

 

The Skill is knowing when to push the button and how to counter the different classes pretty much the same in any game like this. Many want to do the same action with little thought and qq nerf when they don't work for the most part. You don't fight a sorc like a sin or a ops but some try to lol....

Edited April 19, 2012 by LordbishopX

[Bloodtau]

Pvp is about skill and not gear.

Well, it should be but the PVP in this game is so terrible it's neither, it's about numbers.

[Apollonel]

what i read:

 

omg i'm so bad, that i want to have better gear because i play more,

because that's the only way i can win easily.

competition isn't for me.

waaaaa waaaaaa ='(

Edited April 19, 2012 by Apollonel

[Syylara]

Full BM gear requires ~12,000 comms.

 

In order to gear up in one week would require:

 

7 dailies+1 weekly = 792 regular comms

 

leaving ~11,200

 

Prior to today's patch, a win was around 100 and a loss around 40, the average is 70 comms per match

 

11,200/70=160 games

 

160 games/7 days=~23 matches per day

 

At 15 minutes per full match and assuming instant queues that would be:

 

23 matchesx15 minutes=345 minutes per day

 

345 minutes/60=5.75 hours per day.

 

So nearly 6 hours of impossibly instant queuing per day would get you BM in a week.

 

That is not going to be the norm AT ALL.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Syylara