Tank Assassins (and Shadows) are ruining PvP.

[SinnedWill]

i play a tank assassin in dps gear, full battlemaster with 3 augmented war hero peices. my spec is 31/0/10. again all dps stalker gear and i augment for crit.

 

im a skilled player and yes i play my class very good and just yesturday alone, i 2v1'ed a bounty hunter and a maurader. they both where bad, .

32/4/5 here, and it's easy to win almost every 2v1 even if they're very skilled (only 2v1 that requires me to pop adrenal/trinkets is 2x Carnage Maras, in which case I need to kill one of them very quickly use shroud, force cloak, force speed, overload, and deflection at key moments -helps that I have a marauder, so I know when those key moments are-). Hell even if I'm solo defender in a Novare Coast or Civil War and I have a group of 6 come zerging in, I can effectively hold them off until help arrives (and usually end up killing 1 of them). Problem is we have too much of a combination of burst damage (proc and stack-based), survivability, cloaking, defensives, CC's, mobility (force speed 20s cooldown, breaks slows/roots), and utility (pull, wither, force slow, electrocute, spike, taunts, guard, self-healing). And if we happen to pair up with each other or group with multiples of each other (especially with staggered taunting), there's just no counter to us. Two of us will stunlock and kill all squishies in ~ 6-8 seconds, easy to pull healers away from their protectors for quick kills, etc. How can any good tankasin actually NOT feel dirty doing all this?

Edited April 25, 2012 by SinnedWill

[Notnicematt]

32/4/5 here, and it's easy to win almost every 2v1 even if they're very skilled (only 2v1 that requires me to pop adrenal/trinkets is 2x Carnage Maras, in which case I need to kill one of them very quickly use shroud, force cloak, force speed, overload, and deflection at key moments -helps that I have a marauder, so I know when those key moments are-). Hell even if I'm solo defender in a Novare Coast or Civil War and I have a group of 6 come zerging in, I can effectively hold them off until help arrives (and usually end up killing 1 of them). Problem is we have too much of a combination of burst damage (proc and stack-based), survivability, cloaking, defensives, CC's, mobility (force speed 20s cooldown, breaks slows/roots), and utility (pull, wither, force slow, electrocute, spike, taunts, guard, self-healing). And if we happen to pair up with each other or group with multiples of each other (especially with staggered taunting), there's just no counter to us. Two of us will stunlock and kill all squishies in ~ 6-8 seconds, easy to pull healers away from their protectors for quick kills, etc. How can any good tankasin actually NOT feel dirty doing all this?

 

first of all, if players group up... that does not mean the class is op.... bounty hunters have pulls to.... and naming all the ulitilty, cc's, burst damage, survivability, you are exagerating them and reusing moves. all we have is pull(not only class with pull), wither( we only have 2 aoe moves, other classes have more dps viable aoes), force slow(multiple class have slow), electrocute( a stun really? every class has stuns except for mauraders go get gernades from the GTN), spike(another stun? really? again a multiple class move), taunts(we are tanks and again multiple classes have taunts), guard(omg, again multiple classes have guard), self-healing(only 12% btw) these are all obsolete arguments, you are complaining over the moves we have and been given and say we should feel bad for using them when in reality they are completely in comparison to the rest of the classes. and our survivability cd's dont last long, and our self heal can very very easily get taken out of the rotation from a knockback or stun... everything we have can be countered,

[yeux]

This thread makes me lol.

 

I actually switched to a full dps spec, mostly deception, and still did just as good in pvp. Just switched to dark charge when I needed to guard something.

 

me thinks that most of these people are just mad bc they got nerfed.

 

what's your plan to rebalance assasins/shadows in pve with these nerfs? We already take more damage than our tank counterparts and considerably more, than say a pyrotech in heavy armor, when we arent using dark charge. got to think beyond the pvp side of the game. tanksins are already only used when desperate in pve.

[LordOfThePeople]

/signed on nerfing tank sin/shadow in pvp

 

Also the pull they have works with full resolve... FIX THIS NOW

Edited April 25, 2012 by LordOfThePeople

[Notnicematt]

/signed on nerfing tank sin/shadow in pvp

 

Also the pull they have works with full resolve... FIX THIS NOW

 

really.... why dont u prove it then, or maybe u can watch ur resolve bar instead of coming up with false information.

[cycao]

/signed on nerfing tank sin/shadow in pvp

 

Also the pull they have works with full resolve... FIX THIS NOW

 

Nope.

[Notnicematt]

i really hope BIOWARE sees past all of the ignorant post on how OP the tank class is, its not fair that unskilled players pave the way of the pvp in this game and blame the other classes because they are undergeared and outmatched.

[yeux]

really.... why dont u prove it then, or maybe u can watch ur resolve bar instead of coming up with false information.

 

bc he's spewing a load of crap. i always use pull in huttball and it does not work on full resolve or invuln

[Ishly]

its so boring play vs facerolled sin\maras

not fun, fix it

[Astarica]

My server has been getting more laggy since 1.2 and I've been force pulled with a full resolve while having Force Shroud up. I attribute that to lag as opposed to any undocumented change, but it sure is annoying and I've seen it happen quite a few times.

[LordbishopX]

Ive never had a force pull work even once against a full resolve bar it fails like a mofo it seems more often than not for me ><;;... Edited April 25, 2012 by LordbishopX

[Ishly]

its so boring play vs facerolled sin\maras

not fun, fix it

[Pretty_Flacko]

I play a deception assassin, and i do agree that Tank Assassin's need a nerf. Going 1v1 vs a tank assassin is pretty much just suicide. Not trying to sound conceited, but i would say im one of the more skilled dps assassins particularly because I top the charts in every category (except healing). I do my fair share of dying and im not one to complain if i do, but when i die it usually is a close match. But when fighting a tank assassin, it's impossible to even dent them through their supposed "light armor". They just heal themselves and never die, fights aren't even close, nor fun none the less. I understand they are a tank, but they should not be able to dish out the same dps as, well, a DPS spec. i refuse to play as a tanksin because it just doesn't even seem fun to be so OP

[SinnedWill]

first of all, if players group up... that does not mean the class is op.... bounty hunters have pulls to.... and naming all the ulitilty, cc's, burst damage, survivability, you are exagerating them and reusing moves. all we have is pull(not only class with pull), wither( we only have 2 aoe moves, other classes have more dps viable aoes), force slow(multiple class have slow), electrocute( a stun really? every class has stuns except for mauraders go get gernades from the GTN), spike(another stun? really? again a multiple class move), taunts(we are tanks and again multiple classes have taunts), guard(omg, again multiple classes have guard), self-healing(only 12% btw) these are all obsolete arguments, you are complaining over the moves we have and been given and say we should feel bad for using them when in reality they are completely in comparison to the rest of the classes. and our survivability cd's dont last long, and our self heal can very very easily get taken out of the rotation from a knockback or stun... everything we have can be countered,

First of all I was merely trying to show that we are "jacks of all trades and masters of [most]".

Tank-sins synnergize very well together - no other class compares wiith the synnergy of tanksins (coordinated groups) - you have to admit this. I'm well aware that tank-specced powertechs/vanguards have grapple and other classes have utility/cc/burst (well, not all classes have burst)/AoE/gaurd/taunts but there certainly aren't many with 4 (5 if deception) abilities that can prevent action, and I'm well aware that all of our stuns/mezzes are single-target (buy grenades if you want AoE stuns, though). Tanksins have 4 AoE's (and some don't bother with wither, opting for deathfield instead) so we have Wither OR Death Field, Lacerate, Overload, and Discharge (overload damage is minimal and should only be used situationally; discharge's damage is low, but it's internal, and yeah, the 5% accuracy debuff is fairly moot, but certainly doesn't hurt with our high defenses both base and talented) and although other classes' AoE's deal more viable damage, many of them can be interrupted. Wither stacks with force slow, so target is moving at 20%, which is VERY NICE - only a few other classes can cause an 80% slow, and don't think theirs last for 6s without a 50% slow from another player - force crush is a nice unique for rage-specced juggs/maras but only a 5s duration (can be purged, just like with/slow, however, causing the removal of its slow, DoT, and final damage (yes, force slow/wither can be purged, too). Force speed with 20s cooldown + slow/root break/immunity is unique and incredibly effective (other classes can use slow/root break + immunity, yeah, but not in conjunction with force speed. Spike + Electrocute is a great stun-lock chain - and enemies will take 9% more damage from our spikes/electrocutes - furthermore, a spike/electrocute stun-lock doesn't completely fill an enemy's resolve, so if the target survives (which if you're alone, is likely to happen unless you have all your procs + trinket/adrenal ready) then you can simply force cloak + mind trap then seethe to regain health/force and start again pretty much the only other stun-lock classes are ops/scoundrels and tank specced juggs/guardians (the jugg/guardian version's dps is moot).

Force Shroud lasts 5s (45s cooldown) and in my opinion happens to be the best defensive cooldown since you can use it in conjunction with force cloak to guarantee that you can escape and you can usually use it twice when you're facing multiple enemies that lack big white-damage dps. Dark Ward is very nice if you use a shield (arguable as to whether or not to even bother with shields in pvp since crits and certain attacks can't be mitigated by shield - but not every attack happens to be a crit, so it's useful - stats on shields compared to focus aren't as good for your dps however, but I personally use a shield + dark ward and still do great burst dps on my tanksin).

 

In summary, yes, many classes of certain specs can also do a good portion of the things we can do, but tank-specced Powertechs/VG's/Juggs/Guardians can't do anywhere near the dps we can. Basically, they have to spec for damage or tanking or utility (some specs combine tanking/utilty, some combine damage/utility), while we get most of this just by speccing tank (with a few points in other trees). Hybrid tank specs for these other classes usually result in "jack of all trades master of none" - but we become "jack of all trades and master of [most]" simply with darkness spec - throw a few points in other trees to further beef us up. And sorry for the wall of text.

Edited April 25, 2012 by SinnedWill

[DarthOvertone]

Prepare for some people to post their screenshots, I've personally seen 550K+, not 650K though. I asked what he did with his gear and he stacked tons of power.

 

Waiting...

 

I'm sure all those 500K screenshots will be coming out of the woodwork soon. lawl

 

 

Also the pull they have works with full resolve... FIX THIS NOW

 

And no...the pull does not work with full resolve. That goes for all classes Sin/Shadow/Merc/Trooper. Maybe it's only the Sin/Shadow pull that defies game mechanics. So bad. haha

[Vampari]

Poster pwns tankassasins but dies in 3 seconds to maruader!

 

3 seconds?

Edited June 2, 2012 by Vampari

[Vampari]

I it takes a 50 to kill another 50 with full bm gear in 3 seconds? Shows how broken game is! 3 seconds i sNOT PVP! It is who targets who first! Edited June 2, 2012 by Vampari

[_Zorth_]

So not true, A sin tank can easily get killed by a DPS Jugg.

[Dozoku]

Again you talk alot without actually having anything to say.

 

DPSing through Force Shroud with white-damage still doesn't ensure you a win. Tank Assassins have enough survivability to come out on top even if you do counter it.

 

And nowhere did I mention that this was about anything but Tank Assassins. I have no strong feelings either way when it comes to the other specs because everyone and their mother is rolling tank-spec anyway. For good reason.

 

Because it wins games.

 

Stop QQ, all i can get out of your post is that you want to beat them 100%, its not their fault you miss timing or don't understand how to beat them yet. L2p please.

[Bbizzle]

Agreed.

 

Can I kill a Tankasin with my Sent/Mara? Sure. Have I been killed by one? Sure as well.

 

But their DPS when compared to other tanks is wildly disproportionate. Poor DPS specd Guardians...

 

What you should say is thier dps while in tank spec =/= others. Notice all powertechs are running pyro? Thats because in full tank they have just as many defense cooldowns (not very many), There is really no bonus to tanking in pvp on a powertech of VG. And they have decent aoe, but its all fluff kill nobody damage, Sins and Shads can do mini bursts, which is good for 1v1. And yes, Juggs and guards in full tank are hard to kill but do basically tickle damage in it.

[djrobb]

well I dont normally post on forums but I have to post on this subject. I was in 6 different wz's tonight and the group make up of 5 of them was 6 tankasins and 2 op healers. needless to say it was brutal. nothing you can do about it. cant kill them fast enough and when you do kill 1 you got 5 more to deal with plus healers. When 8 mans start I foresee this group make up as the one alot of people will exploit to its fullest. I hope for the sake of good pvp that something is done to stop that from happening but i dont see it coming.

 

So to all the people who play their non FOTM class good job hopefully our day will come or at least theirs will end.

Edited June 3, 2012 by djrobb
spelling

[Missandei]

Every single day, when i see a particular persons in WZ, i have a luck to see on the top of resulting WZ list the Juggs with something like "380K Damage Done (DPS 605.0 per second, biggest hit 6k+), 200K protection)".. (this example is from Voidstar)

 

Mind that this is a Tank(!) who are fights against our PuG team where noone have less than 1000 Expertise..

So when someone is talking about am overwhelming DPS of a Shadow Tank (even in DPS gear) i can only laugh..

Edited June 3, 2012 by Missandei

[Missandei]

well I dont normally post on forums but I have to post on this subject. I was in 6 different wz's tonight and the group make up of 5 of them was 6 tankasins and 2 op healers. needless to say it was brutal. nothing you can do about it. cant kill them fast enough and when you do kill 1 you got 5 more to deal with plus healers. When 8 mans start I foresee this group make up as the one alot of people will exploit to its fullest. I hope for the sake of good pvp that something is done to stop that from happening but i dont see it coming.

 

Any good premade will **** you disregardingly of your class..

Moreover any team with 3+ healers are OP..

 

so this is not about classes.. Its the PuG system is lame.. The Queue is just fetch any person to WZ instead of matching the players by some tier.. Valor for Example if not Gear (Expertise)

[Varicite]

Any good premade will **** you disregardingly of your class..

Moreover any team with 3+ healers are OP..

 

so this is not about classes.. Its the PuG system is lame.. The Queue is just fetch any person to WZ instead of matching the players by some tier.. Valor for Example if not Gear (Expertise)

 

Most servers don't have enough people in the queue to do anything other than "fetch any person to WZ".

 

It would match them if there were enough players to actually match. If there are only 16 people queuing, however, you get what you get.

[GrantyJPS]

But its a tried and tested RPG archetype.

 

The casting stealth tank.