Tank Assassins (and Shadows) are ruining PvP.

[Astarica]

Expertise applies to all class equally but the strongest class is likely to see a bigger gain because you only need a very small extra edge to totally dominate the lesser classes.

 

For example you won't see people complaining about Deception Assassins are overpowered even if they have 1300 Expertise (full WH), not because Expertise somehow works less on them but rather they just isn't strong eonugh to get pushed into the overpowered range even with Expertise.

 

A well played Tankasin is pretty much uncounterable 1on1 without using mirror classes, but so is a well played Op healer. Also, there are A LOT of mirror matches out there.

[Sundragon]

Essentially, if you don't bring 1 assassin to a Warzone, you are at a huge disadvantage. I leave warzones unless I see at least 1 assassin and 1 healer. The assassin can defend points too easily allowing you to over-commit to an attack in another location.

[cycao]

Essentially, if you don't bring 1 assassin to a Warzone, you are at a huge disadvantage. I leave warzones unless I see at least 1 assassin and 1 healer. The assassin can defend points too easily allowing you to over-commit to an attack in another location.

 

See I hate this as 80% of the time I am the only 'sin in the zone which means I get the most boring job of all...solo guarding the node. Sure I can do it but its still the worst job there is.

[Astarica]

See I hate this as 80% of the time I am the only 'sin in the zone which means I get the most boring job of all...solo guarding the node. Sure I can do it but its still the worst job there is.

 

Most of my WZs have 2-4 Tankasins on my side alone, though that doesn't mean there are more volunteers for the thankless job of solo guarding even though it is absolutely crucial to winning any node based map.

[Maestrodomus]

Silly all the nerf cries now that Sorcs and Mercs got what they had coming to them. We haven't been buffed since the Wither/Harnessed patch 3 months ago.

[cycao]

Most of my WZs have 2-4 Tankasins on my side alone, though that doesn't mean there are more volunteers for the thankless job of solo guarding even though it is absolutely crucial to winning any node based map.

 

Yeah but my team uses vent so anyone can guard a node all it takes is hey got 3 west or got a group coming south. Anyone can guard a node if you call for help within your own premade.

[Mrunlimited]

Essentially, if you don't bring 1 assassin to a Warzone, you are at a huge disadvantage. I leave warzones unless I see at least 1 assassin and 1 healer. The assassin can defend points too easily allowing you to over-commit to an attack in another location.

 

this ^.......... my favorite combo for voidstar it to punch the right door with a sin that has my healing him on top of his heals.. thus freaking the other team out and pulling 4-5 people to our side, thus getting the other door capped .

 

tanksins have been OP from the get go though - it's just that it took some time to discover.. kind of like how powertechs can have the highest burst in game if specced dps... one powertech on my server figured this out, about a month later we had a slew of powertechs trying to get it all figured out...

 

moral of the story is that assasins have always had the ability to do what they're doing, its just became more popular and fine tuned since then. they tank tree needs re-working, not the entire class.

[Astarica]

Yeah but my team uses vent so anyone can guard a node all it takes is hey got 3 west or got a group coming south. Anyone can guard a node if you call for help within your own premade.

 

That vent is going to be really useful when he gets jumped by a stealth class that he couldn't see.

 

You use stealth characters to defend because the enemy stealth character must come out of stealth first since there's far too many places for the defender to hide. It has nothing to do with communication at all., especially since Marauders and Assassin both have great mobility and can quickly reinforce/chase down any visible attacks.

[Pekish]

my tank-shadow is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more OP then my sentinel but nowday people only cry about sent/mara so i bet my OP tank-shadow will stay OP a little longer...

 

way to go for people to understand very little of PVP and whining about the wrong class AHAHAHAHA

[TheOpf]

As a Powertech, I have no problems dealing with Assassins, they are not OP. They do deal more damage than a PT tank or a Jugg tank, but I would rather fight an Assassin tank any day than the stun machine they call a Jugg tank. I hate jugg tanks.

 

If you are being outdps'd by a tankassassin than you are a bad dps. Total damage they might be you, but I haven't seen a tankassassin at 50 hit higher than 5th in total damage unless he has a pocket healer, and no one kills his healer.

 

Heck the other day I fought a tankshadow and his annoying Sage healer buddy for 5 minutes on a node (okay maybe it was more like 3 minutes). It was me and a Juggernaught fighting a sage healer and tankshadow. we pressured the healer to keep him from using damage attacks, and simply traded stuns and pulls on the shadow. They don't do anywhere close to the amount of damage of a good dps. Heck when they actually cc'd one of us and focused on one guy we broke the CC, I grappled the healer and the sin had to chase me. We ended up beating them because once the healer died, and the Tankshadow's 5 sec shield was gone he went down.

 

Marauders/Sentinels are OP because you have to have two guys to kill one of them, and for 5 seconds you can't do crap to them while they blow you up.

 

Shadow/Assassin tanks are utility nightmares, but they are not OP destroyers of the world like the Maruader/Sentinel is currently.

[TheOpf]

my tank-shadow is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more OP then my sentinel but nowday people only cry about sent/mara so i bet my OP tank-shadow will stay OP a little longer...

 

way to go for people to understand very little of PVP and whining about the wrong class AHAHAHAHA

 

Stealth and survivability is not OP. Your damage is laughable compared to real dps classes. If you go dps gear, you will get steamrolled and still do less damage than a decent dps class. If you go tank gear you will live for a long time, but I won't be worried about your damage. It's the self heals (which any good maruader/sentinel has) and survivability that annoys people. That and the freaking stealth stun haha.

 

In a 1v1, the only way you kill me is if I play like an idiot or start at half health. With a pocket healer that I can't reach you are indestructible, but then again, you put a pocket healer on a Marauder/Sentinel, and they will farm your ugly tank assassin, and the next 5 guys who try to come near him without breaking a sweat.

[Pekish]

you sir understand nothing about warzone and group PVP...

 

keep measuring your pvp capacity with a DPS meter then wonder why you lose all the warzone AHAHAHHA

 

DPS "******" are the wrost pvp around the one that post highest crit as prove of they ability (what ability is that gear+push a button and lucky crit on a noob) or damage at the end of warzone are really the worst players.

 

It always fun to notice how 99% of the "i got 12425365746 DPS look at me" have a DEFEAT on top of the screenshoot way to understand nothing about strategy

 

A well played Shadow/Sin can make you WIN a warzone alone... put a very good SIN/Shadow in a mediocre group with a half decent healer and you will win 99% of the super pro premade without a SIN/Shadow and not in only 1 warzone but in 3 our of 4 at least Novare is the only one where the sin alone cannot make it all since u need 2 objective AT THE TIME

Edited April 24, 2012 by Pekish

[Astarica]

I've noticed that almost nobody disputes the fact that Tankasin are the top 1v1 class and yet at the same time the best 1v1 class in the game is easily countered by... one person.

[VoidJustice]

I cannot gank (insert class here) in under three seconds. (Insert class here) is OP. Please nerf (insert class here) until I can gank them in under 3 seconds.

 

The only thing ruining pvp is people like the OP and BW listening to them.

 

The result? Welcome to 1.2 pvp.

 

Im enjoying the hell outta 1.2 I can kill Tank Assassins and Shadows now! lol...

Takes forever but, it can be done!

 

Tank Assassins and Shadows are fine... balance is fine... whining is OP.

Edited April 24, 2012 by VoidJustice

[JarenWelen]

It's definitely important to focus on the fact that it is the Tank-spec of Assassins/Shadows that is causing issues, I've seen a few posts that seem to throw the entire Advanced Class in there. As an Infiltration Shadow (fairly sure I'm the only one left on my server) I can safely say that the "OP-ness" is restricted to the Tank spec; any nerfs should go to that tree rather than the class as a whole.

[TheOpf]

you sir understand nothing about warzone and group PVP...

 

keep measuring your pvp capacity with a DPS meter then wonder why you lose all the warzone AHAHAHHA

 

Right which is exactly why I am the most sought after pve guilded PT for pvp groups. Warzone and group pvp is easy if played right, but you are an idiot if you think someone sees an assassin and goes crap what am i going to do. Most of the time this is how it goes.

 

"Just saw a stealth head your way mate"

 

"Shadow or Smuggler"

 

"Shadow - looks to be a tankassassin"

 

"No problem. I will call out if I need help"

 

You then drop your stealth scan or just wait for the guy to pop out or a 2nd guy may come to give you a hand if you stupidly break the stealth stun.

 

Here is the conversation that goes on for Marauders.

 

"Incoming 1 east"

 

"Incoming 1 Marauder"

 

"OMW to help - what's the name"

 

"(good player)"

 

"Crap going to need another one, I am hurrying."

 

6 seconds later

 

"crap I am hurrying back, try to keep him from capping"

 

Both are dead and one just made it back.

 

"He is at 20 percent, I think I got him."

 

Both players succeed in finally killing him before cap but you had two deaths and half the health of the first death again before killing a good one.

 

If it's a bad marauder it's more like I got him, but I may need help if he gets lucky.

 

If you think anyone that plays pvp at all is scared of one tankassassin you are dreaming. You are annoying pests who drive us crazy when trying to cap a defended turret, but a Marauder is a destructive force. I see a Marauder and I am lookign for help. i see a tankassassin, and I don't mind 1v1.

 

DPS may not be everything, but when you can do twice the amount of dps as everyone else than it definitely means something. If you think any decent pvp guild or group is afraid of a tankassin you are kidding yourself. I know entire guilds who don't even bring tankassassins except to guard a turret or node.

[Pekish]

perhaps because 1vs1 pvp have no meaning and shouldn't ever be brought up in a PVP discussion

 

okey if one class can win all 1vs1 and doesnt have his nemesis it could be of some interest (very small still but at least you could wonder)

 

Talking about 1vs1 in a group PVP is as much sign of noobs as showing you rock at DPS there is no warzone 1vs1 there is no meaning in lookin at 1vs1 if you want to prove tanksin or sentinel are a problem you always have to specify the group

 

like 4 marauder - 2 healer and blablabla

or 4 shadow - 2 healer and blablabla

 

then you can make a case an analyse and if a call can be stucked sucesfully in warzone that class is OP i dont give a damn if win in 1vs1 or lose the real OP is the class that you would stuck more then 4 in a team for easy win all the rest of the talk is useless.

[TheOpf]

Im enjoying the hell outta 1.2 I can kill Tank Assassins and Shadows now! lol...

Takes forever but, it can be done!

 

Tank Assassins and Shadows are fine... balance is fine... whining is OP.

 

This is absolute fact. Pre 1.2 you couldn't kill a Tank Shadow or Sin. Now you can, and it isn't hard it just takes awhile. However, balance is not fine when Marauders/Sents can go 2v1 and win.

[Pekish]

crap

 

your understnading of the game is so little i just don't feel like wasting time

 

you start with I SEE A STEALTH GOING YOUR WAY

 

perfect NON SENCE if you see a stealth he is not a stealth anymore how can.... wathever on my ignore list waste of time.

[TheOpf]

perhaps because 1vs1 pvp have no meaning and shouldn't ever be brought up in a PVP discussion

 

okey if one class can win all 1vs1 and doesnt have his nemesis it could be of some interest (very small still but at least you could wonder)

 

Talking about 1vs1 in a group PVP is as much sign of noobs as showing you rock at DPS there is no warzone 1vs1 there is no meaning in lookin at 1vs1 if you want to prove tanksin or sentinel are a problem you always have to specify the group

 

like 4 marauder - 2 healer and blablabla

or 4 shadow - 2 healer and blablabla

 

then you can make a case an analyse and if a call can be stucked sucesfully in warzone that class is OP i dont give a damn if win in 1vs1 or lose the real OP is the class that you would stuck more then 4 in a team for easy win all the rest of the talk is useless.

 

This is the most ridiculous confusing comment you have yet to make. You say your tank shadow is op, and yet you then say it's not about 1v1. You counter your own arguments. 4 shadow is annoying, but they can be killed. 4 marauders cannot be killed without losing your entire team unless you counter with a tank class a good healer and two dps who know how to cc pull and focus fire.

[TheOpf]

I can't spell and think I know everything so I am going to caps things and because I can't use logic I will put you on ignore.

 

So you have never ran by and saw a stealth guy heading the other way or saw someone go into stealth. Are you even 50?

 

I fixed your comment. Thanks for trying

Edited April 24, 2012 by TheOpf

[Astarica]

So you have never ran by and saw a stealth guy heading the other way or saw someone go into stealth. Are you even 50?

 

I fixed your comment. Thanks for trying

 

The only way you can observe a stealth attacker in Alderran is if you already control both side turrets which means you should've won. You can't see ANYBODY coming from their own side turret through the bunker because that's territory you should not have visibilty on. In Novare Coast, the stealth attacker will go north from his spawn through his own node (which you cannot observe unless you already control both west+east, but in this case you wouldn't need someone to inform you because you can see it as the defender) and then run across, and this spot is difficult to observe even in plain view because it's far away from the southern node.

 

Tankasins are generally thought of as the premier solo objective defender in the game, and they wouldn't be very good at doing that if they consistently lose 1on1.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Astarica

[Tacticalshotz]

If you are unaware I shall enlighten you. Concealment Ops are the counter to shadow tanks the biggest problem is there are not that many of them. I am running nearly 1100 expertise and 7k armor a well geared op will kill me in under 6 seconds, well they kill anyone in under that time minus sent/maras due to defensive god modes. Edited April 24, 2012 by Tacticalshotz

[TheOpf]

Tankasins are generally thought of as the premier solo objective defender in the game, and they wouldn't be very good at doing that if they consistently lose 1on1.

 

They are the premier node defenders because you can't see them, and by the time you do kill them, the other team has enough time to get to you. With self heals, stuns, sprint, and vanish, they can defend a node and not die for a really long time. That is what makes them a great node defender, not their damage as a tank.

 

Like I said before in 1.2, you can kill a tankassassin, it just takes forever. They however are not damage beasts, they are utility beasts. Maruaders are op because they are as tough to kill as a tank, and do more damage than any dps class. Assassins are annoying, Marauders are OP.

[DarthKhaos]

This is the most ridiculous confusing comment you have yet to make. You say your tank shadow is op, and yet you then say it's not about 1v1. You counter your own arguments. 4 shadow is annoying, but they can be killed. 4 marauders cannot be killed without losing your entire team unless you counter with a tank class a good healer and two dps who know how to cc pull and focus fire.

Not really. Let's take the assumption that a Shadow/Assassin Tank can best ANY single class 1v1 just might take longer. Then you're saying a group comprising of only Shadow/Assassin Tanks can win all the time? 3 Shadows/Assassin tanks can win against say a Marauder/Sentinel, Operative/Scoundrel healer & Powertech/Vanguard tank combo? What about Mercenary/Commando, Sniper/Gunslinger/ Sorcerer/Sage combo? Of course not so the dynamics in group .vs. 1v1 change. The outcome of the fights change so looking at the game solely from a 1v1 perspective is wrong.