Remove the rakghoul plague now

[RDeanOU]

I was in a Safe Zone of a PvE server; received no Invitation to join, and gave nobody permission; a violation per PvE rules. Plus they were in a crowd of folks at the Fleet Med Station, so I would have said intent was fairly clear anyway.

 

This is what you have been doing in this thread and it is precisely the reason why your posts have drawn so much hostility. You presume to know someone's intent when all they were doing was standing around the fleet by the medical droid.

 

Not only is it pretty far from clear that this person intended to cause you suffering, I would argue it is highly highly unlikely. Actually, I would guess it didn't even occur to them that it could possibly cause you suffering as the overwhelming majority of people on the fleet want to get infected and the few who don't can easily vaccinate themselves.

 

Now, even if I granted all of the pathetic excuses for why you can't use the vaccine, that doesn't mean that anyone would reasonably expect that you standing next to the droid that sells them were unable to inoculate yourself.

 

Completely absurd to claim that this person's intent was fairly clearly aimed at causing you suffering.

[Bulwyf]

That's what I was thinking. Heck, I actively look for people who are trying to avoid the plague to give it to. That's the whole 'aggression' part. Its not griefing...it's playing the frikin game.

 

Yes, going out of your way to harass and interfere with other players is not griefing. LOL the absurdity continues. What you describe yourself doing is PRECISELY what griefing is.

[Aloro]

For what it's worth...I really don't care for the whole rakghoul plague event, as it brings back very bad memories of a disturbingly similar "plague" event in another game that was even worse.

 

That being said...the vaccines and their availability make the whole thing bearable for me, and I can certainly afford to vaccinate myself before going to the Fleet, so I think I can ride this one out till it ends, so long as it stays as it is, and things don't get worse - like Bioware deciding to remove the vaccine or something. As it stands, I can choose to participate in exactly the fashion I please, and avoid or protect myself from the bits I don't like.

 

Thanks for being reasonable! I think I'm your equally moderate counterpart on the other side of the issue. I enjoy the event and want a lot more like this (PLEASE!), but think the vaccines should be free, and probably should persist through death as well. As it stands, there are (a fairly small number, but still some) people who want to opt-out who find that difficult right now, and I don't see any benefit to this.

 

And please, please give us more nifty events like this, with new quests appearing every day. That is such a great idea; it really gives us reasons to keep coming back, which in turn keeps the event populated and busy. Very clever.

[DieAlteHexe]

This is what you have been doing in this thread and it is precisely the reason why your posts have drawn so much hostility. You presume to know someone's intent when all they were doing was standing around the fleet by the medical droid.

 

Not only is it pretty far from clear that this person intended to cause you suffering, I would argue it is highly highly unlikely. Actually, I would guess it didn't even occur to them that it could possibly cause you suffering as the overwhelming majority of people on the fleet want to get infected and the few who don't can easily vaccinate themselves.

 

Now, even if I granted all of the pathetic excuses for why you can't use the vaccine, that doesn't mean that anyone would reasonably expect that you standing next to the droid that sells them were unable to inoculate yourself.

 

Completely absurd to claim that this person's intent was fairly clearly aimed at causing you suffering.

 

The so-called "griefer" at the Med Station actually could have been some poor person trying to buy vaccine and just left it too long.

 

It's always interesting to see how people interpret others' actions.

[Kharnis]

Interesting claim, since that's all most anyone's asking for... and people continue to argue against it.

 

... are you seriously saying that standing around in fleet afk is difficult and exciting? I really hope you're talking about something else.

 

Actually, no. Very few (if any) are aguing against an opt-out. They're arguing against the ridiculous and over-blown claims that this event is somehow interfering with their play, or the obviously inaccurate claims that this is griefing, or that this event is somehow causing them in-game costs.

 

And for someone who doesn't want others to take their claims out of context, I would think you'd extend the same courtesies to those same others. Unless you can point out where I claimed that standing around the fleet is somehow difficult and exciting, of course.

[Lundli]

This thread has turned into nothing but nitpicking, semantics and namecalling.. any purpose it might have had seems to be evaporating.

[Subatia]

No; should have, but it took me by surprise to be attacked in the Cantina area of the Fleet. This is why I encourage others, esp those with better Tech skills to Report it, and submit docs.

 

The rules say that I should have been asked for permission (ie; playing PvE), and the attack occured in a Safe Zone (ie; no PvP is supposed to be allowed). This appears to be a double whammy for the Griefer in question, and I hope to see such actions banned.

 

First, it was not an attack. I don't know what the technical definition would be. Maybe some of the dueling Thesauruses can come up with a term.

 

Second, it is something that can be remedied quickly, not only for free (on the fleet, for little cost elsewhere), but for a profit.

 

I had mentioned somewhere else that people would complain if BW gave them free money. It is good to be proven right.

 

Also, you still haven't mentioned what den of villainy you play on that has such terrible people running around.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Subatia

[RDeanOU]

This thread has turned into nothing but nitpicking, semantics and namecalling.. any purpose it might have had seems to be evaporating.

 

You forgot people erroneously claiming that others are griefing them despite being told over and over that their claim is totally absurd.

[Lundli]

You forgot people erroneously claiming that others are griefing them despite being told over and over that their claim is totally absurd.

 

Well.. I kinda consider that namecalling, since it makes me a "griefer"

[Elhanan]

The so-called "griefer" at the Med Station actually could have been some poor person trying to buy vaccine and just left it too long.

 

It's always interesting to see how people interpret others' actions.

 

Some poor fellow that chose to go to the Med Facility on the Fleet after they became infected would seem to have passed other Med Droids along the way based on the described duration of the disease. Poor choice either way.

 

Appears to be Griefing to me.

[Aloro]

I was in a Safe Zone of a PvE server; received no Invitation to join, and gave nobody permission; a violation per PvE rules. Plus they were in a crowd of folks at the Fleet Med Station, so I would have said intent was fairly clear anyway.

 

The same thing happened to two (2) of my characters, so I know precisely what you mean. That is to say, I had two characters get infected while checking their mail at the fleet, both immediately after logging in. In neither event did I have time to avoid being infected, not that I minded once I knew what it was about. Regardless, it was imposed upon me without my desiring it, just as happened to you.

 

And no, that is not griefing. That's trying to infect people, which is the expected behaviour for anyone who receives this quest. Playing the game normally is not griefing. In PRECISELY the same manner, if you're on a PvP server and someone ganks you, that isn't griefing. Sometimes, being able to act upon other players is part of the intended gameplay, and this is one such instance.

 

It's griefing if you seek out people who make it very clear that they don't want something, and you force it on them anyhow. Did someone chase you down, following from zone to zone until they eventually infected you? That would be griefing. Did someone find your level 1 alt on Tython/OM/Korriban/Hutta and infect them at the character creation zone in point? If so, then you probably have a case to argue that you were griefed. If not, then you honestly do not.

 

And this is coming from someone who sincerely wants to protect the rights of players not to put up with unnecessary hassles. What you're talking about isn't griefing; it's simply something you don't enjoy.

[DieAlteHexe]

Some poor fellow that chose to go to the Med Facility on the Fleet after they became infected would seem to have passed other Med Droids along the way based on the described duration of the disease. Poor choice either way.

 

Appears to be Griefing to me.

 

Land at Carrick, run to Med Station. I'd ask you why you think that is a "poor choice" but I know you'd say something circuitous and end it with "blah blah griefing blah griefing" so...I won't.

 

PIty you can't see beyond your hidebound belief that it was intentional. Y'know sometimes in this crazy ol' universe random things occur.

 

Be well.

[Lundli]

Some poor fellow that chose to go to the Med Facility on the Fleet after they became infected would seem to have passed other Med Droids along the way based on the described duration of the disease. Poor choice either way.

 

Appears to be Griefing to me.

 

I'm afraid she has you there.. you have no way of knowing where he was infected. Or even when he realised he was.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Lundli

[Urael]

How long have you been level 50? I've had one since early January (and several more after) and I have voiced displeasure in the lack of content for people at level 50 prior to 1.2. The black hole dailies and this event have given me something different/fun to do on my first level 50 character again that I actually enjoy doing.

 

I'll be fiending for the next outbreak, trust me.

 

I don't have a level 50. I am not a content locust. I am playing all the classes on both sides enjoying the story. I will admit that I sometimes tab thru stories that I have seen multiple times before. But, I am taking my time with SWTOR. I am going extra slow on purpose. I don't want to feel rushed as I did in WoW. In WoW I have multiple level 85s across 7 servers. I rushed each day to grind them up. This time around I'm taking it easy. And it is way less stressfull for me. As soon as I feel tempted to speed up on a particular alt, I stop playing that alt so I don't burn out on that alt and don't burn out on the game. For me switching alts (and factions) all the time makes the game seem different, at least to me.

[Elhanan]

The same thing happened to two (2) of my characters, so I know precisely what you mean. That is to say, I had two characters get infected while checking their mail at the fleet, both immediately after logging in. In neither event did I have time to avoid being infected, not that I minded once I knew what it was about. Regardless, it was imposed upon me without my desiring it, just as happened to you.

 

And no, that is not griefing. That's trying to infect people, which is the expected behaviour for anyone who receives this quest. Playing the game normally is not griefing. In PRECISELY the same manner, if you're on a PvP server and someone ganks you, that isn't griefing. Sometimes, being able to act upon other players is part of the intended gameplay, and this is one such instance.

 

It's griefing if you seek out people who make it very clear that they don't want something, and you force it on them anyhow. Did someone chase you down, following from zone to zone until they eventually infected you? That would be griefing. Did someone find your level 1 alt on Tython/OM/Korriban/Hutta and infect them at the character creation zone in point? If so, then you probably have a case to argue that you were griefed. If not, then you honestly do not.

 

And this is coming from someone who sincerely wants to protect the rights of players not to put up with unnecessary hassles. What you're talking about isn't griefing; it's simply something you don't enjoy.

 

Something that spoiled my play on a PvE server; not PvP.

 

PvE rules state I was to be asked first for permission before being attacked. No, I was not alone, but that was their bad; not mine. Thus this is the first violation of the rules.

 

Then it happened in a Rest/ Safe area. I do not claim to know what Bioware intended with the Mission, but based on other designs that are set up to prevent Griefing, this may not have been among them.

 

It is my hope that such actions will not be allowed to flourish and grow for this, or any future Event.

[ferroz]

Actually, no. Very few (if any) are aguing against an opt-out.

No, several of them are specifically arguing against any form of opt out.

 

Runeshard in particular was quite vehement about it. I can go back to those posts and grab some other names if you really want me to.

the obviously inaccurate claims that this is griefing,

There are definitely griefers using the plague to grief people.

 

or that this event is somehow causing them in-game costs.

It costs me time. In one case ~20 minutes (pvp loss caused by the plague stun at the wrong moment). The guy who spent 50k to stay plague free yesterday definitely had an in game cost. Pretending otherwise is just silly.

 

And for someone who doesn't want others to take their claims out of context, I would think you'd extend the same courtesies to those same others. Unless you can point out where I claimed that standing around the fleet is somehow difficult and exciting, of course.

I'm not sure what you think I've taken out of context. Blaming these people for future events becoming easy and boring is kind of absurd ... since they're leveling complaints specifically about a portion of the event that is nothing but easy and boring. What exciting parts of the event do you think people are complaining about?

 

Standing around in fleet afk is one of the primary features of this event: the masses of people standing in fleet and exploding, and it's the piece that people are arguing against in this thread.

Edited April 19, 2012 by ferroz

[Lundli]

I don't have a level 50. I am not a content locust

 

More namecalling..

[Runeshard]

Where are you drawing this statement from?

 

Fromt the fact that it had happened to him and his guild often enough to make them unsub... Are you saying they saw someone was infected but waited for him/her to explode before doing something about it.

 

I'm familiar with the word... I'm asking where are you claiming that I said that? Can you quote it? I mean, I don't remember asking for it to be curtailed. In fact, I think I've repeatedly corrected people that made that assumption since the first iteration of this thread...

While it is true enough that you've only yelled and complained about not being given a completely free opt out, when a reasonable one is available; What other conclusion can be drawn from all your rants about this event and it's rewards not being worth the 10-30 seconds it would cost? What other impression do you think you're giving people when you constantly complain about griefers and virtually accuse everyone in this thread who doesn't agree with you of being just that. You continually paint this event, which the vast majority are enjoying immensely, in such a poor light that one can believe nothing else.

Personally I suspect that they're people who get their jollies out of intentionally infecting people that don't want to be infected. It's the only reason I can think of that they'd be so vehemently against it.

 

There's a guy in another thread that mentioned that it cost him ~50k to stay plague free yesterday.

 

Does that actually mean what I think it means? That he got infected and so used a vaccine and did so 25 times in one day?

 

Quote: Originally Posted by Havokk View Post

Given all the maintenance this week, can we please have this extended?

personally, I'm hoping not.

And not that it has to do with anything other than your nitpicking and overly argumentative nature but why did you feel the need to try to be so belittling in this matter? It must have occured to you that the person who corrected Korrigan, doing so was in rather poor form in my opinion, was actually doing so in regards to the English language (or according to you only thinking that he was)

Quote: Originally Posted by Korrigan View Post

Sorry, but English is not my first language and I sometimes make mistakes. I suppose you speak German and French as well as I speak English, right?

Millennium is a latin word; it's pluralization follows latin rules; it's a 2nd declension neuter Latin noun. so he's not really correcting English spelling.

I'm starting to get fed up with your insulting attitude, your hack and slash quoting so you can twist the meaning of others and your general trivial complaining. Simply deal with the fact that there is indeed a reasonable way to opt out, instead of constantly yelling for a free one. This event, intrusion-wise, is mild compared to stuff that for example WoW and CoH/CoV have run.

[Tatebomb]

Some poor fellow that chose to go to the Med Facility on the Fleet after they became infected would seem to have passed other Med Droids along the way based on the described duration of the disease. Poor choice either way.

 

Appears to be Griefing to me.

 

Seriously I think at this point you need to let this go. Your continual waaaa I was griefed and since I'm special pity me We get it you don't like this event. However saying it was griefing is incorrect no matter how many times you say it was. So you got infected once when you logged in. Big freaking deal. Aside from a couple of 5 sec stuns and a cool explosion that literally takes 10 sec of time it has no other effect on gameplay. And that also is assuming you don't have a vaccine. Stop with the woe is me garbage. No wonder you play solo. Would hate to see your reaction to a group wipe or a bug on a HM OPS.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Tatebomb

[Ghaiana]

Some poor fellow that chose to go to the Med Facility on the Fleet after they became infected would seem to have passed other Med Droids along the way based on the described duration of the disease. Poor choice either way.

 

Appears to be Griefing to me.

 

Clearly you haven't been really griefed in your life , or you wouldn't care about someone spreading a plague in a videogame, that is ment as part of the game.

[ferroz]

This thread has turned into nothing but nitpicking,

THere's some of that going on... mostly aimed at people leveling false accusations.

 

semantics

There's very little, if any of this.

and namecalling.. any purpose it might have had seems to be evaporating.

It's been about name calling since the first iteration of the tread.

 

Whole pages of pro-event posts were removed because of name calling. Even now it's hard to go a page without seeing it.

[Urael]

If Skolops, Urael, Bulwyf, Ferroz and Elhanan would quit posting... I'd be happy. There's your MAJORITY of the MINORITYS negative posts in this thread.

 

It's a fun event, thousands of people have enjoyed it so far.

 

Sorry you have some personal hang up about it, that's not my problem though and I don't think it's Biowares problem either.

 

If you don't like all of the content you're being provided with for whatever reason. I suggest you get over it or unsub. This is an MMO (this event makes if feel more like one too) and whining about this event and its mechanics will get you no where when it's been a very positive in-game experience for the people actively participating in it.

 

Pretty sure most of my posts have been in response to those in the camp that would have us silenced. As have the others. It seems like you want to have your say and not have our rebuttle ( this is a very Alinskian technigue btw ). As soon as we rebut you tell us to quit posting. Which in turns begs a new rebuttle which you rebut. I think if YOU ALL would stop posting then we would have nothing to rebut and the thread would die. See the irony there?

[Lundli]

THere's some of that going on... mostly aimed at people leveling false accusations.

 

There's very little, if any of this.

It's been about name calling since the first iteration of the tread.

 

Whole pages of pro-event posts were removed because of name calling. Even now it's hard to go a page without seeing it.

 

See, we actually agree (somewhat) on something.. I'm actually amazed this thread has been allowed to go on.

[Elhanan]

Clearly you haven't been really griefed in your life , or you wouldn't care about someone spreading a plague in a videogame, that is ment as part of the game.

 

My first MMO, but this is something I have tried to prevent since joining and playing the beta's. And I have been Griefed before in other m/p play, so I have a little experience, and prefer to bud nip before it thrives.

 

Forcing others into play is simply bad form, and could be Griefing.

[Aloro]

Something that spoiled my play on a PvE server; not PvP.

 

I understand. I play on a PvE server too. That doesn't ensure that no other players will ever be able to affect us, you know.

 

PvE rules state I was to be asked first for permission before being attacked. No, I was not alone, but that was their bad; not mine. Thus this is the first violation of the rules.

 

What rules are those?

 

You seem to believe that there are a set of rules guaranteeing that no other characters will ever be able to interact with you, without your explicit consent. I'm unaware of any such rules. Instead, I'm aware of very specific mechanics (not rules) that prevent combat from occurring without consent. Since an infection is not mechanically the same as being in combat, those mechanical restrictions do not affect the virus.

 

You're choosing to interpret being infected with the virus as being identical to being attacked in combat, although the game obviously treats them differently. Nobody else, from the devs to the other players posting in this thread, seems to agree with you. Sometimes, when the opposition to one's views is overwhelming, one should just buckle down and push on through. But in general, one should ask, "What if I'm wrong, and everyone else is right?"