Hi I just felt like chiming in to say that...

[Helig]

No it does not break CC, it stops enemy spikes and without a purge there's nothing they can do about it.

 

Uh, it also doesn't have to be talented to move you towards an ally, allowing you to withdraw. Right now, I'm collecting Expertise gear, and I feel just fine without 20% self damage reduction after Guardian Leaps. I can still jump to an ally if things get hairy, and CC does wonders in terms of shaking off enemies and setting up Unremitting procs.

 

Besides, the tank is, well, the *tank*. He wants to get focused. He wants the Guarded ally to get focused. However, tanks rarely get focused in organized PvP, due to defensive cooldowns. The enemy usually fights Guard by switching between the tank's teammates.

 

Unorganized PvP, however, is an entirely different matter.

[Kona-FU]

WOW, I didnt read all the way through this thread, my stomach wouldnt be able to handle all the fanboism.

 

Guardian Defensive Tree: Lacks defense.

 

Guard Stance 3 points Tier 2 = 6% melee/Ranged defense (really 6% thats it?)

Shield Specialization 2 Points Tier 4 = 4% Shield CHANCE

Inner Piece 2 points Tier 6 = 4% Elemental and internal damage (*** is internal dmg, better yet who does it and does this defense work?).

 

These are your defense skills in the defensive tree. AWESOMENESS. Out of a 7 tier 31 point tree, you have 3 defensive skills for a total of 7points.

 

There is no threat modifiers (our threat generation is HORRIBLE, even single target) no armor, no real defensive skills at all.

[JoxerNL]

Weird, i seem to be doing just fine with my JG.

[Helig]

WOW, I didnt read all the way through this thread, my stomach wouldnt be able to handle all the fanboism.

 

Guardian Defensive Tree: Lacks defense.

 

Guard Stance 3 points Tier 2 = 6% melee/Ranged defense (really 6% thats it?)

Shield Specialization 2 Points Tier 4 = 4% Shield CHANCE

Inner Piece 2 points Tier 6 = 4% Elemental and internal damage (*** is internal dmg, better yet who does it and does this defense work?).

 

These are your defense skills in the defensive tree. AWESOMENESS. Out of a 7 tier 31 point tree, you have 3 defensive skills for a total of 7points.

 

There is no threat modifiers (our threat generation is HORRIBLE, even single target) no armor, no real defensive skills at all.

 

I do agree that Defense tree could use an overhaul (namely, some focus economy talents could be easily mashed together, and I'd very much like Commanding Awe and Protector to be in the, you know, *tank* tree, not the DPS tree). BW did say they are working on Guardians and Juggernauts, and changes will come soon (trademark) after launch.

 

As for threat, I haven't encountered serious issues - *especially* single-target. Cyclonic Slash could use a damage buff (or Focus cost reduction), but AoE is perfectly manageable. Soresu has a threat-increase component, and Hilt Strike does 2.0 threat in Soresu, making it a good initial aggro tool for single targets.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Helig

[Kona-FU]

I do agree that Defense tree could use an overhaul (namely, some focus economy talents could be easily mashed together, and I'd very much like Commanding Awe and Protector to be in the, you know, *tank* tree, not the DPS tree). BW did say they are working on Guardians and Juggernauts, and changes will come soon (trademark) after launch.

 

As for threat, I haven't encountered serious issues - *especially* single-target. Cyclonic Slash could use a damage buff (or Focus cost reduction), but AoE is perfectly manageable. Soresu has a threat-increase component, and Hilt Strike does 2.0 threat in Soresu, making it a good initial aggro tool for single targets.

 

Take a Jedi Shadow along, tell him to go balls out, you wont be able to keep the mob off him. I am lvl 45, I dont solo, I only group so trust me when I say our threat needs work. Even the Jedi Shadows in my group say their DPS spec does more threat than their tank.

[Helig]

Take a Jedi Shadow along, tell him to go balls out, you wont be able to keep the mob off him. I am lvl 45, I dont solo, I only group so trust me when I say our threat needs work. Even the Jedi Shadows in my group say their DPS spec does more threat than their tank.

 

Had no problems with a Gunnery Commando going "balls out". Both, single target and AoE. And those guys pack a lot of firepower.

[TheSeventhJedi]

And in that whole rant you never listed a single, specific issue you had.

 

I've been leveling a JG and having a jolly good time of it.

 

This. I'm at 28, and I've never felt shafted at all. Love this class!

[Helig]

This. I'm at 28, and I've never felt shafted at all. Love this class!

 

It does feel boring - especially compared to other classes. But 35-36+ is where the fun starts.

[WINTER__x]

i gotta admit compared to, say, trooper - its VERY PAINFUL (i quest with a trooper friend alot) having said that - WAR shadow warrior was worse, oh my gosh that class was awful

[Drakks]

My biggest complaint is that the deep defense tree is terrible compared to what you can pull from Vig -- and really not lose much value as a "tank". The entire "tank" benefit is rolled into a form you get at 14.

 

As it stands, outside of just wanting to do it, there isn't much reason not to hybrid between defense and vig for the extra damage.

[CapuchinSeven]

My biggest complaint is that the deep defense tree is terrible compared to what you can pull from Vig -- and really not lose much value as a "tank". The entire "tank" benefit is rolled into a form you get at 14.

 

As it stands, outside of just wanting to do it, there isn't much reason not to hybrid between defense and vig for the extra damage.

 

Yeah I pretty much agree here, it's far better (for me anyway) to go into Vig up to Commanding Awe and still use Soresu and still be able to take Guard Stance.

[Sensational]

WOW, I didnt read all the way through this thread, my stomach wouldnt be able to handle all the fanboism.

That's alright, I'll champion the cause for you!

 

I do agree that Defense tree could use an overhaul (namely, some focus economy talents could be easily mashed together, and I'd very much like Commanding Awe and Protector to be in the, you know, *tank* tree, not the DPS tree). BW did say they are working on Guardians and Juggernauts, and changes will come soon (trademark) after launch.

We can always hope. The first thing they need to do is let us use Guard in Shien. That would make a DPS Guardian viable for Raiding, and balance us out in comparison with other tanks in PvP.

 

Alternatively dual speccing would help us a whole lot because we could pigeonhole ourselves into Focus specced AoE bombs for PvP, at least we'd be more viable for the high-end enviroment then.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Sensational

[Helig]

We can always hope. The first thing they need to do is let us use Guard in Shien. That would make a DPS Guardian viable for Raiding, and balance us out in comparison with other tanks in PvP.

 

Alternatively dual speccing would help us a whole lot because we could pigeonhole ourselves into Focus specced AoE bombs for PvP, at least we'd be more viable for the high-end enviroment then.

 

Yeah, Guard in Shien would be great for PvE. Not sure about PvP, though. In Shien, you're about as squishy as a Sentinel (if we count their defensive cooldowns and Zen). And more squishy than a Watchman, I daresay.

 

As for dual-speccing, I also want it, but not as a solution for the shortcomings of our class. It can be fixed without too much trouble. Dual-spec, I want for having an optimal spec for PvP and PvE.

[Sensational]

Yeah, Guard in Shien would be great for PvE. Not sure about PvP, though. In Shien, you're about as squishy as a Sentinel (if we count their defensive cooldowns and Zen). And more squishy than a Watchman, I daresay.

That's true, but at least you can contribute against other premades. As of right now you serve no purpose that a shadow or vanguard can't do better. Except for Huttball.

 

Sweep bombing will be useful in world PvP if they ever turn it into something more than just farming dailies but it's not that great in the small scale PvP that we have now.

[vekkth]

i gotta admit compared to, say, trooper - its VERY PAINFUL (i quest with a trooper friend alot) having said that - WAR shadow warrior was worse, oh my gosh that class was awful

 

after last patch they are kings of rvr, every server is now swarmed with them. sup 5k nukes in 2 globals on demand, with i think 1min cd? or even less.

[CapuchinSeven]

every server is now swarmed with them.

 

I wish people wouldn't make things up.

[Sensational]

after last patch they are kings of rvr, every server is now swarmed with them. sup 5k nukes in 2 globals on demand, with i think 1min cd? or even less.

TOFN mostly has Inquisitors and Sages, mainly shadows and sins.

[FalcoLombardi]

I've been fine. Guardian seems to be a great Tank

[Sensational]

So I figured I'd prove my point to myself.

 

Rolled a Smuggler (Never played the class before), got myself to level 10 and specced Gunslinger. In my 3 first warzones I did 120k, 200k and 210k respectively.

 

Guardian is not fine. 80k in Protection does not make up for a 50k damage disperancy when you're 40 levels above and decked out in epic gear. Especially not when the other tanks pull out far higher numbers than we do.

 

That's not comparing non-soresu builds though, as I have little experience with those.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Sensational

[Darkshadz]

So I figured I'd prove my point to myself.

 

Rolled a Smuggler (Never played the class before), got myself to level 10 and specced Gunslinger. In my 3 first warzones I did 120k, 200k and 210k respectively.

 

Guardian is not fine. 80k in Protection does not make up for a 50k damage disperancy when you're 40 levels above and decked out in epic gear. Especially not when the other tanks pull out far higher numbers than we do.

 

That's not comparing non-soresu builds though, as I have little experience with those.

 

Ranged always have a higher uptime than melees so it's much easier for them to do more damage. With my PVE vigilance spec, I can hit 189k+ damage solo. Considering that hybrid tank specced guardians can hit 240k+ damage with a pocket healer, it is safe to assume that a dps spec guardian can break 250k damage with a healer. The highest damage that I saw so far in warzones is around 270k damage from sorcerers and gunslingers. If you roll a guardian for the sole purpose of topping the damage chart, you're doing it wrong. Your role is to be the annoying bastard and they pretty good at it. You can still be among the top 3 damage in WZs but don't expect to outdamage ranged classes. There is absolutely no reason to be jealous because sorcs and gunslingers can do 20k more damage than you. The guardian dps is fine.

[Helig]

So I figured I'd prove my point to myself.

 

Rolled a Smuggler (Never played the class before), got myself to level 10 and specced Gunslinger. In my 3 first warzones I did 120k, 200k and 210k respectively.

 

Guardian is not fine. 80k in Protection does not make up for a 50k damage disperancy when you're 40 levels above and decked out in epic gear. Especially not when the other tanks pull out far higher numbers than we do.

 

That's not comparing non-soresu builds though, as I have little experience with those.

 

*Shrug* You don't count the amount of CC, AoE slow and interrupt misery that you can rain on them in Defense.

 

As it stands, Defense Guardian damage is slow and steady, with some on-demand burst available. While some skills could use improvement, it is not broken. With the amounts of survivability and CC you can achieve with this class, stronger damage would make it the next FOTM.

 

And I like being an underdog. It's warm and cozy. As Luke said in Outcast, "If the way of the Jedi was easy, there would be thousands of us instead of dozens". Fancy way of saying "I like that this class turns away subpar players".

[sithylords]

I have been hating a great time with my JG, so I do not know about you.

[VoidJustice]

I've also noticed a few things that are really cool on my little level 19 Jedi Guardian. I keep making it into the top 3 to 5 on DPS in warzone PUGS solo. Even thou it FEELS HORRIBLE my DPS in Vigilance isn't bad. I never seem to kill anyone by myself but, I must be doing something right. It must be the fact that after years of long casting Pyro in Pvp I can get a Master Strike off no problem in a furball... lol

 

My Trooper and Smuggler both level 10ish top charts consistantly and have a direct impact on the battle. They FEEL GREAT!

 

Also at level 19 I've been able to tank pretty effectively in PVE.

 

So while the class isn't total garbage and every other class I've played FEELS incredibly better, more survivable, with more dps and more cc and even healing.

 

I seem to be limping my Guardian along, driven by crafting (awesome synth weaving, archeology, underworld, woot) , the marketplace and the incredible story.

 

I have to say thou. If I wasn't such a die hard Star Wars fan... I'd so be pwning every face in existance 3 times over with my level 12 commando who could probably solo 12 of my level 19 Guardians before blowing a cool down.

Edited December 27, 2011 by VoidJustice

[Drakks]

So I figured I'd prove my point to myself.

 

Rolled a Smuggler (Never played the class before), got myself to level 10 and specced Gunslinger. In my 3 first warzones I did 120k, 200k and 210k respectively.

 

Guardian is not fine. 80k in Protection does not make up for a 50k damage disperancy when you're 40 levels above and decked out in epic gear. Especially not when the other tanks pull out far higher numbers than we do.

 

That's not comparing non-soresu builds though, as I have little experience with those.

 

 

What you actually found is that it's much easier to do damage as ranged than it is as melee. Roll any other ranged class and you'll pretty much find the same thing.

 

It's why people complain about guardians and sent (and by proxy, juggs and mars) -- doing damage as melee, with a short range and even slight lab, is a very frustrating experience.

[Dosris]

Well reading this long thread and what not gave me this strange little idea . . .

 

Maybe *GASP* it's the player playing the class who determines how good it is.

 

I hear tons of people love Guardian, I hear masses of others say they despise it . . .

 

Well, maybe, JUST MAYBE (This is a hunch now, I dont know for sure /sarcasm) your just not tuned to the class.

 

I know people cant say I am wrong when there are always those classes in MMO's people just "Click" to. They play them well, they beat the crap out of everything and basically just be a boss about the whole journey. On the other hand, there is always those who dont fare well naturally with some classes. They hate the feel, the way it plays, the skills and cant seem to use any good combination of anything no matter how hard they bother to try.

 

Basically, if you suck, well then you suck. If your great at it, then your great. And quite frankly there is too many people who defend the class and point out VALID reasons as to why it is good to place every single ounce of blame on BioWare, as if they deserved any. And from this evidence, basically, if you suck at the class, thats your own fault and no one else's. If your gonna whine on the forums be prepared to be chewed out by people who ACTUALLY know the game at least somewhat decently.