The end of the arguement. Is SWTOR in decline? Can it be saved?

[Jett-Rinn]

An employee making a statement is not exactly empirical evidence...if you want some empirical evidence...take a look at EA stock...went from $61 a share to $16 a share. EA was recently voted as the "worst company in America", behind BP and Haliburton. A recent article also stated that they just laid off 9% of their workforce as well. They recently had to change nearly their entire board as the past members left EA to join Zynga.

 

The overall stock price of a mega corp isn't indicative of how one branch is doing...Activision isn't doing that great either yet Blizzard is doing okay despite recent layoffs which BioWare (not talking EA I'm talking BioWare specifically) hasn't had. Also I addressed EA winning a straw poll and how that is more shameful to us as a society than anything else.

[Jett-Rinn]

Well Jett your doing the same thing but telling everybody how this game is best in class in the MMO world. :mad:Why not just hush up let there stock report tell us what is really happen with this game/company instead of going back in forth like your doing now.

 

If yea want to know how good ea is doing well lets log in to scottrade and type in EA.. OK this is what I see

 

Electronic Arts (NASDAQ:EA) traded today at a new 52-week low of $14.64

(Second Opinion Weekly) Rating Downgrade -2 days ago. Down to a big fat 0 AVOID

 

You mean stop disagreeing with you so you can hate more?

 

No thanks.

 

Also I don't believe that this is the best MMO in it's class I have had many complaints and have stated them loudly (ask Georg Zoller if you don't believe me) I just think the campaign of hate is a bit suspect. I also never said that EA didn't have issues as a company but BioWare is juts one branch of that company and I think what is going on here is EA haters sticking it to BioWare just because they are part of EA.

[Dezzi]

You mean stop disagreeing with you so you can hate more?

 

No thanks.

 

Also I don't believe that this is the best MMO in it's class I have had many complaints and have stated them loudly (ask Georg Zoller if you don't believe me) I just think the campaign of hate is a bit suspect. I also never said that EA didn't have issues as a company but BioWare is juts one branch of that company and I think what is going on here is EA haters sticking it to BioWare just because they are part of EA.

 

So because they disagree with you, they're haters? What does that make you?

 

[Jett-Rinn]

So because they disagree with you, they're haters? What does that make you?

 

 

A wonderful fellow and a snazzy dresser.

[Uzziel]

and I think what is going on here is EA haters sticking it to BioWare just because they are part of EA.

 

Well Jett-Rinn to the normal Joe and Susie BioWare is EA and there one in the same. Look at it like this.

 

BioWare is a big fat healthy pig, EA really wants some pork chops, Ea slaughters, chops in to many parts,then consumes Bioware so now there one in the same. Ea then move on to slaughter and consume something else. In the end it is about EA as we are playing EA games.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Uzziel

[Aberration]

My advice is this.

 

Play out the remaining time on your cancelled accounts and then move on to something better.

 

Learn to play an instrument

Finish that degree

Get to know those children you sired

Read a book .

 

Anything.

 

I believe MMO ends here, this is the end of the Road. The dust has settled ...

 

We, all of us , see what MMO is by now. A monumental waste of time.

 

There is a bigger prize waiting for you , invest in YOU not some fictional avatar.

 

heed the word or not you must admit the basic truth.

 

The time you devote here awards you one thing and one thing only.

 

wasted time

 

 

When you are on your deathbed will you utter in your dying breath " I wish I spent more time in MMO"

 

Leave SWTOR

 

Return To Life

 

Not all of us are die hard players. I have been playing since early access and I have yet a lvl 50. I imagine there are many people stranded out on the dying worlds. That would all continue to play given the chance to transfer characters. It should be free, and freely available. If the name exists on another server, just prompt to change the dang name. Losing your name is a lot easier to deal with than having to redo the all the content.

 

And that IMO is what is going to kill this game. No server transfers. I have been playing for months now to get my toons to where they are. Sure it may seem simple to forum commandos and die hard players to just roll another server and grind it to 50 in no time.

 

Me? Its going to take 3 months or more to get 35. I don't want to be doing the same content over. Again.

[Malynn]

I've been playing MMOs a long time (UO and WoW). Rumors of games deaths are always constant. Yet both MMOs continue(d) for years!

 

I played each game because I enjoyed them. I stopped playing when I no longer enjoyed them. I didn't stop because of rumors of a game's premature death. If I took forum rumors seriously, I wouldn't play a game more than a day or so.

 

I am thoroughly enjoying Star Wars. I hope they continue for more than the 10 years they've planned.

 

[Marrond]

I've been playing MMOs a long time (UO and WoW). Rumors of games deaths are always constant. Yet both MMOs continue(d) for years!

You've got the point but you missed one important thing. UO and WoW were fresh when they showed up. SWTOR is basically copy-pasta of WoW mechanics in general (sometimes it looks even like a skinpack for WoW...) - the mechanics that is old and a lot of people starting to disliking it (guess why WoW loses now subs rapidly and Blizz is offering free D3 and Tyrael's Mount in exchange for 1 year WoW subs?)

 

 

And don't get me wrong, I'm not the hater, just experienced MMO player in general. Also I won't leave SWTOR as long as there will be enough people to have fun with, despite I hate that rubbish WoW-like mechanic. I love SW universe and love is blind

Edited April 21, 2012 by Marrond

[DevonDs]

A wonderful fellow and a snazzy dresser.

 

Thanks for using the word snazzy. Definitely made me smile.

[Kalfear]

So I notice we have the same five or six people posting over and over again how the game is fail on this thread and have been doing so for days.....meanwhile most of the servers are still standard or heavy despite the Diablo II open weekend and the open Tera beta.

 

In further reading it's been pretty much proven time and again that the OP's statements are false, and his links are bogus misinformation as Daniel Erickson just said two days ago that the population hasn't dropped.

 

But yeah; doom, fail...The sky!!! she's a falling!!!!!!!

 

 

lol yeah cause that jamie guy and 2-3 others (who have like 5 -10 posts pro TOR for every individual post you refer to as fail (while experienced players refer to as mostly constructive critism)) not spaming the tread with the same 3 lines over and over in favor of TOR!

 

In reading this thread its pretty clear you seeing what you wanting to see and nothing else.

[Kalfear]

I've been playing MMOs a long time (UO and WoW). Rumors of games deaths are always constant. Yet both MMOs continue(d) for years!

 

I played each game because I enjoyed them. I stopped playing when I no longer enjoyed them. I didn't stop because of rumors of a game's premature death. If I took forum rumors seriously, I wouldn't play a game more than a day or so.

 

I am thoroughly enjoying Star Wars. I hope they continue for more than the 10 years they've planned.

 

 

True, I been around before even UO and yes, rumors of a games death are always constant.

 

But over time Ive learned to qualify (to myself) what death means.

 

Death NEVER MEANS closing of doors in a MMORPG, because that never happens. Even SWG still lives on in Emu. UO has a larger Emu population then its had in retail game for over a decade. MMORPGs never die.

 

To me death of a MMORPG is when it can not meet the expected market! The predicted sales.

 

IE: DAoC I call a huge success as it was made to appeal to 500,000 or less (it was profitable with far less but the market expectation was around the 500,000 mark. It sold well over a million and maintained for years 800,000 active subs. DAoC was a success on every level until Mythic ruined the game and drove everyone away in droves from the changes to game.

 

Conversely: SWG is a grand failure. SWG was created to be a monster game with a predicted 2 million box sales and a long term sub base of 1 million. Instead it reportably sold 1.5 boxes (still respectable) but its 3 month subs was under 300,000 after release. SWG failed to meet the expected numbers.

 

With TOR: I know the fanbois are claiming it was never expected to do these numbers now, but a year before release these really were the numbers being tossed around for this game. 4-5-6 million SUBS range. This game was to, from all accounts, from all reports, rival WOW (not beat it, just be in the same market) and revolutionalize the MMORPG genre.

 

Now people can now claim that was over blown and unrealistic, fact of matter is that was the predicted and expected level of success expected.

 

So to come so far under that and receive so much negative press can be veiwed as failure.

 

Does it mean they not profitable? Of course not. Success is not written on just turning a profit, success and failure are defined by how much profit for how long is made.

 

Anyone with over 7 years MMORPG experience (and probably a few with less then 7) knows the numbers EAoware putting out dont pass the smell test and are being artificially propped up by the single month resigns for Patch 1.2. Fact is EAoware qualifies a active account as someone with time left. Not by a actual cancellation notice.

 

So right now anyone thats been around for awhile knows you can not get a accurate subscription number until the end of the 6 month subs times run out. Till then you just do not know for sure how many players bought the 6 month sub, cancelled, but still counted as active. Plus there is this whole next 2 months for the 1.2 returns that activate for a month, get a free month, not satisfied with patch, and leave.

 

All we can do is go by the server numbers and those are so arbitrary its silly.

 

True story, other day I was on Alderaan, Fleet, Tat (before rakghoul stuff), and Quesh and saw no more then 7 people at any location during prime time hours.

Logged out and server status read as standard!

If 7 people on rep fleet during prime time is standard, WTH qualifies as low????

 

So yeah, every MMORPG has its detractors. TOR no different.

Every MMORPG has its fanbois to and Reading these forums TOR seems to have a pretty dedicated and consistant group of 20 that spend more time on forums then in game they claim to love (I dont get that. When im head over heals in love with a game, I hit forums maybe once a week tops, not every days for hours on end. If I love the game Im playing the game).

 

But as for TOR failing. Its failed to reach the predicted levels prior to release. Personally I think thats a real shame cause I wanted to love this game and play for years and years and years. I want the genre to get past the disaster to the genre known as WOW and move on to more traditional MMORPG values and ideas while bringing in the new concepts like the voice overs, public groups from RIFT, story archs, crew skills, ect.

 

I dont think GW2, SW, AION, or others will bring us into a new generation for the Genre. TOR really was the last great hope of this genre (of the announced games). So now we need to wait yet another 5-6 years and hopefully by then someone will have the balls to put quality over the quantity cash grab that the post WOW games have done.

 

Thats my take anyways. Like yourself, I do enjoy parts of the game. I just expected more and was promised more. And on that level, EAoware has failed amazingly.

 

And its not hating to be realistic about the product!

[Jett-Rinn]

 

True story, other day I was on Alderaan, Fleet, Tat (before rakghoul stuff), and Quesh and saw no more then 7 people at any location during prime time hours.

Logged out and server status read as standard!

If 7 people on rep fleet during prime time is standard, WTH qualifies as low????

 

 

Last week my guild was on Tatooine for a guild meeting; there were around sixty of us. It was realign that there were nine people in the area; many other people has said the exact same thing. I think it's safe to say that the population indicator is a bit broken.

[ahhboris]

I sub because I enjoy the game. In my humble opinion it is far better than WoW and I intend to keep on playing.

[hypnosys]

I cancelled my sub today as well, because I feel SWTOR was made to be a quick cash grab instead of what it was marketed to be. Unfortunately in my point of view the game was developed by corporate suits instead of passionate gamers that want to bring this MMO to the next level. I am very sad because I had high hopes for this game, and I spent money and time playing it. Edited April 21, 2012 by hypnosys

[Goretzu]

Last week my guild was on Tatooine for a guild meeting; there were around sixty of us. It was realign that there were nine people in the area; many other people has said the exact same thing. I think it's safe to say that the population indicator is a bit broken.

 

60 in a guild these days is impressive, there's more than a few in mine that won't come back and play even with a FREE 30 days.

[Sathid]

I find it funny people talk about rating agencies when looking at stocks,boy i have storys to tell you if you ever played the Market but the first thing is never trust the rating agencies,how soon people forget the DotCom bubble and what those agencies did.

[Marrond]

I sub because I enjoy the game. In my humble opinion it is far better than WoW and I intend to keep on playing.

Being better than WoW at this point is nothing amazing - actualy in terms of gameplay many f2p korean grinding style MMOs are better. Thing is WoW was amazing when it was Vanilla years ago, when WoW was, let's say (but that is not true) revolutionary. Only thing WoW has now is the number of subscribers, but this won't last long since people are massively abandoning that ship - so rapidly that Blizz took desperate steps. The game will live as long as there will be enough people to participate.

 

I think the problem is EA (not sure about BW role) - they killed Warhammer Online which could be one of the greatest MMO. Let's hope they will not kill SWTOR and it will fast become something more than a Star Wars version of WoW.

[BCBull]

60 in a guild these days is impressive, there's more than a few in mine that won't come back and play even with a FREE 30 days.

 

Yeah, I know what they are going through. I logged on twice. 40 mins the first time (day of plague) 1 min the next time.

[BCBull]

Let's hope they will not kill SWTOR and it will fast become something more than a Star Wars version of WoW.

 

It is already minus the companions and voice over...

[Destronicus]

Yeah it says a lot about the legitimacy of the consumerist when a company that kicks children from their homes is passed over for a entertainment company.

 

No way that poll was Astroturfred huh?

 

To be fair to the Consumerist, the fix was in. There were many game forums that told people that had probably never heard of the site before to go there and vote for EA. (Is that what astroturfed means? I am not familiar with that term).

 

I am a regular on the consumerist and that vote had nothing to do with what that site is all about. Just a bunch of cranky gamers with no sense of real world priorities invaded the consumerist so it doesn't really speak to the real legitimacy of that site at all. Other than I suppose they could have tried to figure out what was a real vote and what was a pissed off gamer and excluded those votes but I don't know if that is even possible.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Destronicus

[Jett-Rinn]

To be fair to the Consumerist, the fix was in. There were many game forums that told people that had probably never heard of the site before to go there and vote for EA. (Is that what astroturfed means? I am not familiar with that term).

 

I am a regular on the consumerist and that vote had nothing to do with what that site is all about. Just a bunch of cranky gamers with no sense of real world priorities invaded the consumerist so it doesn't really speak to the real legitimacy of that site at all. Other than I suppose they could have tried to figure out what was a real vote and what was a pissed off gamer and excluded those votes but I don't know if that is even possible.

 

Yes but what they didn't do was come out and make a statement about that because they were getting to much publicity, the BBC used it to show just how out of touch Americans were. I call that yellow journalism.

[Marrond]

It is already minus the companions and voice over...

Companions and voice over - cool stuff for a single player game if you know what I mean.

[xrndmx]

the age of mmos is dying, more and more todays society is about fps and action gaming, there are too many lazy people out there that do not want to lvl a character for days, or wait to join a group in an online fantasy world, they would much rather shoot the hell out of each other over and over again.

 

Personaly i want to play mmos but there is less and less people that do, and less and less people willing to try new mmos due to the lack of interesting new content in older mmos and they all think that new games will follow the same trend as the older mmos did.

[hypnosys]

the age of mmos is dying, more and more todays society is about fps and action gaming, there are too many lazy people out there that do not want to lvl a character for days, or wait to join a group in an online fantasy world, they would much rather shoot the hell out of each other over and over again.

 

Personaly i want to play mmos but there is less and less people that do, and less and less people willing to try new mmos due to the lack of interesting new content in older mmos and they all think that new games will follow the same trend as the older mmos did.

 

Have you considered that people who used to play traditional MMOs have grown older and they don't have time to grind as much any more? Also games tend to evolve, and I think adding more action combat in an MMO is not a bad idea. What TOR did was to use a very old formula, with the addition of not offering the tools other (older MMOs) offer now. For some sitting in the fleet looking for groups might be fun, for me and few others I know its not. Also the concept of dailies gets old very fast, and don't get me started on this game state of PVP (oh and where is this glorious open world PVP that was advertised before game release?)

[Marrond]

Have you considered

 

Have you considered that people might still like to grinding mobs than doing quest that drive you nowhere but to easy exp? Seriously, cheap grinding MMOs have more aspects of a multiplayer game than those WoW-copypastas :]

 

(oh and where is this glorious open world PVP that was advertised before game release?)

Funny thing is that games like WoW pretend to have any kind of open PVP at all. Open PVP was in Lineage 2 for example, not in those pathetic flag and factions system. If you wanted to **** someone because he was just an arsehole - you could. Without asking for a damn permision to do so.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Marrond