The end of the arguement. Is SWTOR in decline? Can it be saved?

[Ghost_Hz]

If they implement the ability to remove the red error text and sound associated with it, i would renew my sub when its up.

 

For now though im not even on the fence about it, its either that change is made or i'm gone. i havent logged in since the hour or so i played after 1.2.0. Just makes the game lose too much immersion factor for me.

[DarthVindictus]

If you actually read my post I was quoting another user who had a very negative framing. BW can and should merge servers asap I agree. The only reason I seem to hear from people is that trolls won't like it, or people will take it as a sign of the games decline. It's nothing of the sort and we shouldn't allow misconceptions to stop what is the correct thing to do.

 

Think of it like treating someone for shock. In shock, either the blood vessels dilate (anaphylaxis), so blood pressure/circulation drops because you have the same amount of blood that suddenly needs to fill more space, or, the person is losing blood (hypovolemic) because now that same space has to be filled by a smaller amount of blood. Either way, that person is dying, circulation is disrupted, organs shut down, etc. While yes, the best way to treat it is to add more blood (analogous to suddenly getting hundreds of thousands of new players), a way to stabilize them and keep them from dying and keep consciousness is to do things like elevate the legs, or administer epinephrine. The goal of this is to pool more of the blood available into the vital organs and brain (instead of in the legs), and to constrict the blood vessels, That gets the most circulation to the places that need it, until you can get a transfusion.

 

Obviously in this case, we got a little bit of both, the blood vessels (servers) are dilated (too many of them), and we're bleeding (losing subscribers). So they need to do hemorrhage control (stop losing subscribers), and they need to elevate the legs, and administer epinephrine (merge servers to keep a lively population on each server). A transfusion (getting a bunch of new players) is probably not going to happen any time soon, the initial rush of purchasing the game when it first came out is over, 1.2 probably not enough because you're trying to Out-WoW World of Warcraft, which means, you actually have to have as much end game content or more to actually convince people to leave, that takes time.

 

The best thing they can do to get a good transfusion.. is to NOT raise the level cap, but make an expansion that focuses purely on end game content, so that they can push out enough raids to convince people to leave WoW.. if that's what they're going for.

 

I don't see EA trying to break the MMO mold and doing something different which is what will be key to GW2's success, so focusing on beating WoW in the end game department is the best they can hope for.

[AgitatedTheGreat]

Dying? dying? that's a joke. It's already dead brah. Yeah some curious heads came back to 1.2 ive noticed about 80 extra people on my server during prime time which brings it up to 170-180 on the fleet. They won't last long.

 

I don't know, maybe I am underestimating the amount of people that enjoy derpfest pvp. Derp, derp smash buttons, derp, derp smash more buttons, derp, derp...

[DarthVindictus]

You can only go by what you can see; I cancelled my subscription tonight. Over the past week sodid the majority of my guild (a guild that has been together for years across many games). That's ~25 people right there all leaving for the same reasons. Adding 30 days free to accounts if sub'd 6 days after the renewal period is a really dirty, underhanded way of holding onto people.

 

If the overall sub numbers are staying at similar levels I promise you this; it's because there are enough new subs to counter the people cancelling... and make no mistake, people are cancelling their subs.

 

That's not healthy; that's churn.

 

The world/us first raiding guild, Condemmed, is leaving this game. That says something.

[MikelGoff]

The world/us first raiding guild, Condemmed, is leaving this game. That says something.

 

To me, the only thing it says is that... the first raiding guild left. This is just like WoW in the way that raiding is not the majority thing. It's like saying the best PvPer has left. I hope the best for him, but he's hardly indicative of any large movement.

[Ansultares]

I would actually re-sub if I could find [Prototype]TT-15A Powertech Boots on The Jekk'Jekk Tarr Imperial GTN at 10PM CDT tonight (when I last check it before my account expires).

[Kubernetic]

The world/us first raiding guild, Condemmed, is leaving this game. That says something.

 

This is a complete failure of logic.

 

By what method do you leap from simply acknowledging that the "world/US's first raiding guild" was playing this game to the idea that they MUST remain and be entirely happy with the game and stay forever, or else the game is dying?

 

Maybe they just prefer orcs and goblins.

[Kubernetic]

I would actually re-sub if I could find [Prototype]TT-15A Powertech Boots on The Jekk'Jekk Tarr Imperial GTN at 10PM CDT tonight (when I last check it before my account expires).

 

LOL. If you are't kidding, that's very sad.

[WLpride]

However Positive I really am about it, still missing is the HORRENDOUS void in user experience

 

Still missing -

 

Transfer

oPvP

Guild usefulness (banks is really a tiny tiny part)

Add-On community

[GRINnBARRETT]

I don't live my life or make life decisions based on what the flock is doing. I'll play SWTOR as long as I have fun playing it.

 

Saved? That's crazy-talk. Just ask the guys waiting in a 35 minute queue.

Edited April 18, 2012 by GRINnBARRETT

[DarthVindictus]

This is a complete failure of logic.

 

By what method do you leap from simply acknowledging that the "world/US's first raiding guild" was playing this game to the idea that they MUST remain and be entirely happy with the game and stay forever, or else the game is dying?

 

Maybe they just prefer orcs and goblins.

 

It says that a group of high quality players that was dedicated enough to complete all the PVE content (and in their case pvp content as well) in the game has decided to move on rather than stick around. To have completed everything, you have to have liked the game to some extent or otherwise why bother? That says that the game just isn't engaging enough to keep in people unless it's people staying JUST because it's a game in the Star Wars franchise. Honestly if this was a generic MMO setting and not Star Wars, this game would have very little going for it.

 

 

Condemned is leaving for Guild Wars 2, and there are no orcs or goblins there.

 

[Ghouley]

Any MMO released these days is subject to people leaving because the general forum posting populous is complacent and will only wait a couple of months before deciding there isn't enough content and the game sucks. I have characters across a couple servers and while some have seen a moderate decline, others are still very well populated and I see new players joining constantly.

 

I do not think there is anything to worry about and the forums certainly are not anything to judge by as generally only the people who want to complain and advertise the fact that they are leaving to seek some sort of attention and satisfaction from their post come here. There is a very small percentage of people who come to the forums and even less who decide to post, there are also plenty of players who do not need to fly through the game at 16 hours per day because they realize the content is not going anywhere, and being first at something or to get that piece of gear usually ends up with a shot in the foot, "oh sht I just rushed through a brand new game and now have nothing to do".

 

So is there anything to worry about? does the game need to be 'Saved' ?in my opinion no.

[Dezzi]

All numbers and articles aside. I know what it is that I see IN-GAME, and that's nobody. The other day I logged in at peak and I was the only Imp on Tatooine. How is that possible??? The best part of the game are the flashpoints and group content not that you would know it because you can never get groups in this game. In any case, the funniest part of the article is how much everyone hates EA. All that nickle and diming their customer base finally caught up with them.

 

This, of course, is the most important thing to consider when discussing the success or failure of this game. What people perceive to be the case is more important than any behind-the-scenes figures or earnings reports. When a player logs into the game and has trouble finding groups because his server population has dropped, it doesn't matter how well (or not) the game is doing. For that player, you might as well call the game a failure.

 

No one really knows how the game is doing--except for the people upstairs at BioWare. Interesting, though, that they've been tight-lipped about the game's performance lately. Have we seen a report since the one in February? What about subscription numbers?

 

Methinks they were waiting for 1.2 to drop before bringing anything to the table. Expect word soonish .

[TonyIommi]

The world/us first raiding guild, Condemmed, is leaving this game. That says something.

 

Meaningless. In fact good riddance. Someone else will fill the void I'm sure. It is not indicative about the health of the game in anyway. Maybe they all got bored and went back to warcraft who cares? Those people play such a ridiculous amount anyway they couldn't be kept happy and content couldn't be created fast enough to keep them subbed any way. As for the "churn" that's pretty much the standard in mmo''s now a days. Warcraft has lost MILLIONS of players but they get more back. THe churn happens in every game and is indicative of an mmos success. If it keeps drawing players that's good. It keeps the people that it can but drawing more in is great to.

Edited April 18, 2012 by TonyIommi

[teacherjapan]

The reason it lost my subscription was simple, it's a game that lacks EVERYTHING that makes a MMORPG successful.

Bugs, no API, no macro system, lack of endgame content, PVP(made even worse by 1.2), lack of LFG and dual specs and God forbid if you were ever in a full group on ilium(oh lord the memories of the horrendous lag).

All my friends who were excited and formed a guild left.

 

Basically in my opinion, it's very much like Microsoft saying that they'll make a new and amazing OS, and then hand you a bloody copy of Windows ME in 2012.

Then all the fans suddenly defended it as "The other game had 8 years to matures". I call it bull. The reason is as follows: They had the formula to success of a MMO, yet refused to implement it.

 

On a positive side, had fun playing my first inquisitor to 50, then it was over, and I doubt my impression of the company will change based on how they have responded to customers.

 

For those who like it, I'm glad it worked out, for those of us...it was a good experience to start with and then just went sour.

[Kthx]

That says that the game just isn't engaging enough to keep in people unless it's people staying JUST because it's a game in the Star Wars franchise.

 

No, it says it isn't engaging for some people. No more, no less. Given how subjective game enjoyment is, would you expect anything less? I don't think anyone expected SWTOR to be the perfect game for everybody.

[Scerge]

Lol fansites making up non backed up claims of a game dying.

 

How new.

 

Also why are the people who always say they "quit" still here.

 

If you really don't like a game you wont cancel your sub and then hang around for that time you have left you would of had gone somewhere else.

 

So you haven't really quit your just playing like everyone else but trying to troll.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Scerge

[GalacticKegger]

Lol fansites making up non backed up claims of a game dying.

 

How new.

 

Also why are the people who always say they "quit" still here.

 

If you really don't like a game you wont cancel your sub and then hang around for that time you have left you would of had gone somewhere else.

 

So you haven't really quit your just playing like everyone else but trying to troll.

Nothing better to do? Edited April 18, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Scerge]

Also OP got owned.

 

EA denied losing staff rather well.

 

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1323997/ea_denies_swtor_battlefield_3led_job_cut_rumours.html

[oakamp]

Just saw this on CVG.

 

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/343845/ea-poor-battlefield-3-old-republic-performance-result-in-layoffs/

 

"and Star Wars: The Old Republic, which received similar treatment and has supposedly already seen subscription numbers decline, are big contributing factors to the cuts."

 

http://startupgrind.com/2012/04/exclusive-electronic-arts-set-to-lay-off-500-employees/

This one is a bit more in depth.

 

http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-02-02/markets/31029084_1_ea-shares-earnings-report-unit-sales

This seems to be more focused on the stock from EA and seems to lean both ways.

 

It seems EA have had a poor financial year due to BF3 and SWTOR.

 

I have found this on several other sites, it seems to be reliable.

 

I don't want to start a flame war or an "I told you so" thread. Instead, I was wondering what people would like to see to maybe improve the player base.

I am one of the people that is on the fence, I have around 90 days or so left on my sub but am, as of yet, not convinced to renew it.

Following the new "world event" (which I though was good mostly) maybe this is the way forward?

So lets hear it, what would it take (for those that aren't sure or maybe have already cancelled) to bring you back?

For those that are already commited, what more things would you like improved or added?

 

Lets try and keep it on track and pleasant ok?

 

Ok, weigh in.

 

just look at the fatman server,

it means most other servers r dead, so the rest ppl rerolled,

u can answer ur question by urself.

[Vlacke]

EA denied losing staff rather well.

 

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1323997/ea_denies_swtor_battlefield_3led_job_cut_rumours.html

 

This.

Op is nothing but a misinformed troll, as are those who couldn't wait to jump on the doom/hate wagon.

[Red_Vs_Blue]

Couldn't care less, i will probably go back to WoW AND Crysis 3 will come out in the future. Crysis 3 alone is a good enough reason for me to just stay in my house.

[GalacticKegger]

just look at the fatman server,

it means most other servers r dead, so the rest ppl rerolled,

u can answer ur question by urself.

Ah yes ... another assumption being passed on as gospel. I'll stay away from Fatman and stick with Mask of Nihilus. We're "only" Standard but had 178 in fleet an hour ago before I took off to see 60+ on Corellia. Oh yeah - no queues either. Feel free to trust those server status designations all you want ... just keep the bs to yourself please.

 

[edit] Can't leave ya hangin' - wouldn't be fair. Here's a screen I just took so folks wouldn't think I was talking out of my backside. Just missed two groups going into Ops so fleet was at 189 right before I clicked it off. Oh, did I mention we are listed as standard on the server status page? Server status designations don't mean a thing, and anyone using them to back up self indulgent claims that the game is dying is making it up.

 

http://www.galactickegger.com/SWTOR/Screenshot_2012-04-17_21_24_45_187500.jpg

Edited April 18, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[iheartnyc]

http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-02-02/markets/31029084_1_ea-shares-earnings-report-unit-sales

This seems to be more focused on the stock from EA and seems to lean both ways.

 

It seems EA have had a poor financial year due to BF3 and SWTOR.

 

I have found this on several other sites, it seems to be reliable.

 

OK after my brief spell of being completely PO'd regarding the 30-days free, I'm back because I miss the game. OK, regarding your post:

 

This is why people invented "specialization of labor" thousands of years ago. The fact that you cite this article either means you have no idea what you're doing, or you are disingenuously trying to trash the game.

 

First, your article is dated February 2, 2012 and based only on preliminary 4Q 2011 numbers. SWTOR began commercial operation in the last week of December FY2011. This number has been reflected in the 4Q 2011 report (on 10-Q dated February 7, 2011). However, the annual report (on 10-K) has not been released yet (probably because they are due to be filed by March 31 of each year). In other words, how could anyone other than EA's auditors and insiders know whether EA had a "poor" financial year? By "adding up" the numbers from the 4 different quarterly statements? Yeah, you could "try" that.

 

Most importantly, SWTOR's only impact on EA's financial reports THUS FAR are on the 4Q 2011 quarterly. And by all accounts, EA was the best selling MMO in history at the start, so if anything, SWTOR has only had a positive impact on EA's financial results SO FAR. This will obviously need to be reevaluated upon release of the 1Q 2011.

Edited April 18, 2012 by iheartnyc

[P-Funk]

Everyone mocks EVE on these boards but with a few hundred thousand subs they turn over many millions a year in revenue. The problem we have is how we're measuring success. Everyone since the great WOW multi million sub thing has said it must be this good or its a failure. Well, no, it just won't make as much money.

 

SWTOR is a bit unique in that it spent more than just about any game to try and do it and so theyr'e in a bigger hole than most MMOs for making up their losses on production. But fact is that the game will run with probably at least a million subs for a few years AT LEAST. Eventually the production costs will be made up for and they'll turn a profit. MMOs are long term investments.

 

Will it shatter the WOW level? I doubt it. Honestly I'm not sure any MMO will ever. Just cause one did it doesn't mean the rest will have to. There's a set market share generally for MMO players and there's a lot more competition now than ever before. Old MMOs are still running, ones frmo 5 years ago, 2 years ago, new ones now, F2P ones and sub ones.

 

There's just so much product out there that that one great big product isn't likely to show up again or not for a while. WOW will decline, the multitude of new MMOs will pick up all its old members, and you'll have probably dozens of healthy MMOs with hundreds of thousands of subs or something.

 

WOW was a monopoly, they don't happen very often. SWTOR was trying to be the next WOW, it didn't really do it. oh well, now they have too many servers for too few people. They'll probably merge some or try and drive up subs or give transfers. Eventually it'll even out and we'll have a healthy average player base. You know this will make money it just won't be that monolithic major game that everyone assumed it should be or tried to be.

 

No either ors, just qualifications to the original plan and impression of the game. Not a WOW killer but not dead. Maybe thats too grey for you either or people.