RoscoeP Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I'd have to agree with the folks against the mods. It takes the fun out of the game and invites unwanted problems. The interface needs a little work but I hope SWTOR doesn't follow the wow model because I for one, think it cheapens the game. This is a top notch mmorpg and I hope it lives up to the Star Wars brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slackfumasta Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 The only real reason you guys want mods and macros so bad is to hide your outside programs common thats why your crying for them so bad. Easily the dumbest post in this thread. Probably on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FadedIdeals Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) If you ask me, TOR's UI isn't all that bad. In fact, thinking as far back as The Realm (my first MMO, put out by Sierra in 1995) TOR's UI is nowhere near as bad as offenders like Final Fantasy 14. In that game, the UI was almost entirely menu-driven and could make even the simplest and most common tasks take minutes--terrible. Now, could TOR's UI use some work? Certainly. I'm sure BioWare is aware of this as well. As for mods, I could do entirely without them. I'm all for BioWare expanding the customizability and versatility of the stock UI, but leave the third-party mods out. I certainly don't miss their ubiquity in WoW. Not only was having to maintain them annoying, even with the Curse client, but having to keep up with the Joneses became wearisome in a hurry, particularly in the PvP arena; between classes, character gear, internet latency, and system performance, the developers have enough to consider, no need to add yet another layer. Some might argue you don't have to use mods, which is true. You don't have to do a lot of things provided you're willing to suffer the consequences. As such, when most others are using mods to get an edge in PvP, you've little choice but to follow suit if you want to stay competitive. However, if BioWare wants to extend the UI by adding Quality of Life additions I'm all for it. Some mouse-over healing capabilities would be nice. On the topic of macros, I don't find them too big a problem so long as their functionality is limited. Among others, City of Heroes/Villains had macros (and a great teaming dynamic), and I don't recall them causing any real problems. Implementation and extensiveness will be the deciding factors for me. Edited December 20, 2011 by FadedIdeals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shananigan Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 BW has stated they will allow addons soon enough, but i doubt it is game breaking, it is alot better than alot of UI's I have seen, have you ever tried some of the top names UI without addons? they are horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordalx Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Oh dear lord, this isn't WoW and we aren't used to it, nooooooes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hootieD Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 What most of the whiners in this post are missing is that none of the UI mods, damage meters, and just about EVERY mod they are complaining about NOT HAVING.... AREN'T provided by the game manufacturer for the MAJORITY of MMOs out there. For the first year or more of other games, they fought every attempt to allow programmers to write mods. If you NEED mods so badly. go to school and learn to write them, or make friends with your local programming troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallensouls Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) Easily the dumbest post in this thread. Probably on this board. Nah if you dont believe that is the case then your seriously naive, especially on pvp servers. Edited December 20, 2011 by Fallensouls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shewn Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I disagree. Macros and mods do much to alleviate the tedium of many game tasks where the UI itself falls short. Most people complain about Recount and GearScore when talking about WoW, ignoring the really useful mods that make up for many things that the game doesn't manage by default. Examples would include addons like Outfitter, which eliminates the irritating process of clicking over a dozen pieces of gear just to equip a different set, be it for riding, or a different role, or eve (dare I say it) role-playing. Chatter, which overcame UI shortcomings in the recent past like no mouse scrolling in the chat window. Gatherer, which keeps track of collection nodes that you have already found. AtlasLoot, to show you where you might find gear upgrades, or help you figure out crafting materials needed for an item you want, and you don't have that profession. I am going to assume you are not familiar with the end game and Social gear that can be moded as well as dropped gear, as that nullifies the point. you have but one set of stats so you do not need different gear in your AC even if you respec. Macros are a godsend as well. Castrandom macros to pick a different mount every time you mount up. Assist macros (everybody needs one IMO). Macros so you don't have to type out which target you are pulling/healing/controlling. A macro to mount... mundane request imho. Assist works entirely different within SWtOR and if you play with it you will find that your assist macro's are not needed. But, if you insist that you need them for such things Logitech make Gaming pads that you can set macros to outside of the game... If you did not play WoW in vanilla, you don't realize how many of the UI features in WoW today came from user-created addons, and they have made the game better, without a doubt. Old Republic will get the same benefit from addons, and macros look like they will be necessary, given how many skills seem to be in the game (I am playing a Juggernaut, if that makes any difference). Actuall a ton of us do and we also realize how the dictatorship of add-ons became requirements... so much so that Blizzard was forced to integrate them to appease many. This in turn adjusted the game difficulty. If somebody creates an addon that you don't like, well then don't use it. However, to say that addons ruin the game is a very myopic view. First and foremost calling people nearsighted is a bit of an insult to many people that disagree with your opinions... MMO's have succcesfully survived without the use of add-ons in the past and this one is doing fine. This is not a wow clone, and the game play, gearing system, UI and design are different and not trying to learn those differences and adapt is a myopic view of the game in it's current incarnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZORG Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Let me get this right .... You want a macro to launch a series of attacks in a specific order EVERY time and all you got to do is hit ONE button? I cant support this. I want the human error factor in this game. I want there to be a OH crap I over used cuncussion shot now im outa resources RUN.. This was debated to death in beta. DEVs SAID NO.. On the UI. Thats another matter. I think the windows and button bars all need scaling and freedom to move... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akkela Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 While I would not mind if there was an option to customize the UI (move it around and resize), I don't think the UI is that bad. In fact, this is my favorite vanilla UI from any other MMO out right now. As for add-ons. I really hope they do allow them to be added. I like the fresh feeling of the game as it is....how it was made to be played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBlarg Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 How in the world did all of you crying about mods play other MMO’s that do not have them? SWG (pre CE) FFXI, LOTRO are (and were) outstanding games and they had no mods. SWG had no actual endgame content worth talking about. Final Fantasy 11 isn't worth talking about as a game. LoTRO has had addons for a long time now. http://www.lotrointerface.com You really need to try to understand why there are no mods(yet this could change). A good example is the GT or AH by forcing the player to travel to the hubs to access the terminals you are exposed to the social aspect of traveling to those hub and interacting with the players there. Like popping to the fleet to use the GT and you read in chat that there is a group looking for more for say an Athiss run. It is kind of a pain but it does foster more of a social atmosphere. LFM spam is great social interaction. Now some things like a good combat log would be helpful for studying your combat effectiveness but a outside mod is not needed for that. It's also needed to evaluate recruits for raiding. Guilds coming in from WoW with proven players are one thing, but recruiting once this game is established is going to be hard to weed out the people that can't cut it as raiders. You know, the people that complain about addons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iorlas Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 They need to cater to raiders. The people that are going to keep this game running and keep Bioware's lights on. People like you won't be around down the road, as you'll hit max level and crash and burn just like you did in WoW. Enjoy your stay. LoL..what about the REAL players that don't bother with raiding the pvp's?what about the PvP'ers, are they not going to be paying a sub also and so keep the "lights on"? How do you know "people like me" won't be around? I have never ever played WoW i tend to stick to games that need atleast a little bit of skill to play.If you can't manage to play the game as it's made and need your crutch for support just stick to WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meiu Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I sorely underestimated just how poor the UI would turn out. It is so uncustomizable it isn't funny. Health bars, buffs, debuffs, and the power bar are all WAY too small. You can't move or resize anything, I HATE having the chat box up the top. Not having a damage meter or even a freaking combat log is ridiculous. Why shouldn't we even know how much damage we're doing? I want to know what the best rotation is for my character and I have absolutely no way of working that out. Macros are a staple in every MMO, how can you just not have them? There's a nice focus target but it's practically useless without focus macros. These should be top priority for the next patch. You will never find a good rotation because everyone uses a priority system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rykimaruh Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 While simplicity is beneficial, it could cause constraints on most players. Dependability for example would eventually become a requirement for these mods and add ons, thus becoming a filter for the player base. While simple macros can be agreed upon, anything else beyond that may hinder or seem "exploitable" to gameplay. Improvisation is always satisfactory since it requires player reaction and thinking with gameplay stimulus. This in turn gives a positive gameplay experience. While some may argue that it is required to maximize their potential and output, this as a result can turn into a feud about "Good vs Bad players" in these forums which is what we are all trying to avoid with this newly made game. As for my opinion, I believe a certain limit must be put if add ons and macros are to be allowed in this game in the future. We certainly wouldn't want to have our "beloved" Gearscore come around to this game now would we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apicomplexa Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I would love to see some sort of damage meter (even if it was only client side and for personal use), CHAT BUBBLES for /say /party etc., UI Skins similar to what LOTRO has (doubt they will allow the level of mod usage in WoW), and many more options in the graphics menu... especially AA that I don't have to force out of game or edit .ini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlblackdog Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 This is thread is stupid. Time to dive in!! See yah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBlarg Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 LoL..what about the REAL players that don't bother with raiding the pvp's?what about the PvP'ers, are they not going to be paying a sub also and so keep the "lights on"? How do you know "people like me" won't be around? I have never ever played WoW i tend to stick to games that need atleast a little bit of skill to play.If you can't manage to play the game as it's made and need your crutch for support just stick to WoW. Actual PvPers need a functioning UI even more than raiders. Unless you're talking about the "PvPers" that ineffectually grind battlegrounds like they did in WoW and don't really contribute anything except free kills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LrdRahvin Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 the day this game gets macros and turns into a no-talent macro-fest or gets a bunch of cheesy add-ons for people who want EVERYTIHNG to be easier is the day I leave this game....so a big hearty no to macros and add-ons from me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellias Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 If you don't know what you're talking about you should really not post because it makes you look dumb. How about we get rid of Hot Key targeting as well and just make everyone click Unit Frames??? Yes, because since you say it, it must be so! Having raid healed since Anarchy Online (that's probably back when the chickens had teeth) - and starting on WoW as a raid healer as well right at the original Molten Core and Onyxia 40 mans, and stayed all the way up to the end of WotLK - I tried all the silly and retarded addons people are claiming are ABSOLUTELY necessary, and surprise, none of them are even remotely that, they just make the job easier. Some even actually make the job a hell of alot easier. (which is exactly why they shouldnt exist is the first place) The only thing I ever used was different bar mods - did I need it? No, but it just took up less space on my screen. But yes, since my opinion is SWTOR shouldnt have any of this "easy mode" crap - I must indeed be stupid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iorlas Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Actual PvPers need a functioning UI even more than raiders. Unless you're talking about the "PvPers" that ineffectually grind battlegrounds like they did in WoW and don't really contribute anything except free kills. NP with allowing a decent UI..was more pointing out that there will be more than endgame raiders paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightgallon Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I don't want there to be mods, then this game becomes about Min/Maxing, gear questing, e-peen stroking and basically everything that for a while made WoW successful but now has driven away. I don't need a DPS meter, I don't want to talk about all day "so and so didn't do enough dps and so and so didn't heal enough" I hated that aspect of having these addons. Or a loud ding, when boss A is using ability B. I like the organic nature of this game, I would hate to see it ruined by the number crunchers. I sincerely hope that they keep the mods out. I played a healer for several years in wow and the game basically became whack a mole, get gear. The only organic experience was in PvP and even that was simple /strafe around a pole instant heal and run.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TemDejima Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 The mark of a truly skilled player is the ability to adapt. If you're crying about not being able to play without addons, you lack the ability to adapt. That being said, the game is still in its infancy. The servers don't even come up for the official launch for another 10 minutes at the time of writing this. You have NO idea how endgame is going to turn out and handle for the long run, so you don't know that you'll need addons to raid. They've already said that they're going to add UI customization, so you have no idea that you'll need addons to modify it. Give Bioware time to add and tweak things before you go completely changing the game yourself, and take the time yourself to learn your class and which abilities are most useful or effective for you. Personally, I don't think the game needs addons at all. UI customization is coming and I'm sure macros are coming. The only other thing I would like to see added is Target of Target, and I'm sure that will come too. Also, all the addons that became part of the WoW UI were added because Blizzard realized that so many players used them anyway that they might as well add them in themselves to save people the trouble of installing and updating the addons. And while this includes addons like Outfitter, it's also led to the game telling you what a boss does before even fighting it. I also find it hilarious that while people are saying that addons are what make the raiding in WoW better, the glory days of WoW for raiders were Vanilla (where there were barely any addons) and BC (where there still weren't anywhere near the amount of addons that exist now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonekillr Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 i like the idea of a test zone with feedback vs a dps meter. i believe we really need a target of target feature. not so sure about mouseover healing....it makes it dull as can be from a playing standpoint. i do believe there should be an in game aggro warning...if not an meter.... i too saw how addons destroyed the fun in wow endgame raiding.. macros i'm still on the fence about. i dont think outside makers should make them...i think BW can easily do the limited addon variations required Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slackfumasta Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I am going to assume you are not familiar with the end game and Social gear that can be moded as well as dropped gear, as that nullifies the point. you have but one set of stats so you do not need different gear in your AC even if you respec. A macro to mount... mundane request imho. Assist works entirely different within SWtOR and if you play with it you will find that your assist macro's are not needed. But, if you insist that you need them for such things Logitech make Gaming pads that you can set macros to outside of the game... Actuall a ton of us do and we also realize how the dictatorship of add-ons became requirements... so much so that Blizzard was forced to integrate them to appease many. This in turn adjusted the game difficulty. First and foremost calling people nearsighted is a bit of an insult to many people that disagree with your opinions... MMO's have succcesfully survived without the use of add-ons in the past and this one is doing fine. This is not a wow clone, and the game play, gearing system, UI and design are different and not trying to learn those differences and adapt is a myopic view of the game in it's current incarnation. Obviously my post was WoW-centric because there isn't much yet to discuss in ToR. Hell, it's not even released just yet. The point is that the people crying about not wanting addons are focusing on a very small subset of addon type whose effect on the game is debatable, while ignoring that most addons offer convenience, and to want to block addons because of the perception of a few of them is, indeed, short-sighted. Players will invent extremely useful addons that the devs will not, simply because the product of thousands of minds will come up with more ideas than several dozen, especially considering that they have bigger things to do that think of useful ideas for addons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymaeria Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) I'm seriously enjoying this thread. By the time I've finished reading one page there's another one ready for me to go through. Endless supply of 'lolz' for me! Here's my two cents on what the game's UI needs: - Combat Log - Ability to move elements - Ability to resize elements - Ability to make bars invisible unless moused-over - Target of Target Frame - Larger buff/de-buff icons in the Operation Frames - Companion Operation Frames - Option to turn off the stupid 'Smart Camera' Few things for the record: - Yes, addons could do all of those (I'm in the if-you-don't-like-them-don't-use-them camp) - I was in top raiding guilds of every MMO I've played - My personal UI preference is minimalistic Edited December 20, 2011 by Nymaeria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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