Baaddare Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 It's funny because bad players actually think this. Mastering usage of macros to outplay your opponents increases the skill of the game immensely. I'm sorry if you can't grasp that. They are tools that increase you skill, not crutches. If you cannot use mods or macros effectively then that is because you are bad. Skill doesn't come into this sorry. Mods and macros are a staple unless BioWare is prepared to have a fully customization UI with all of those features that players enjoy. But...but...do you even realize how badly you just contradicted yourself? actually it is the opposite the use of macros reduces the skill required to play a game. Macros tend to lead to button mashing which requires little skill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faibre Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Mods no please dear god no, they started out good in WoW but just turned the game to crap. Macros please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdela Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 It depends on the macros and add-ons. The macros for Rift are terrible, it completely ruined the game as people managed to get down to 2 button intelligent macros. Granted, it fixes any issue with the UI because there is no need for a UI, just copy and past the lasted and greatest macro setup and be a button mashing master. It is not like there was much difference, every class was basically the same FOTM with the corresponding macros. I don't want to see that. Add-ons is another thing. Some are great, but then you get so many and the requisite you must have add-on a,b, and c to run this dungeon or that dungeon. I don't play a game to do work, I play to have fun. And if the add-ons are like WoW, which after a while completely slowed down the UI I can live without it. I still don't get damage meters. What happens is people find the best rotation with the best spec for most damage and everyone follows. If you are not 100% certain how well you are doing, but are performing well enough to do your job what the heck is the difference? I felt like half the whining of balance in Rift was because of damage meters. My rogue is parsing less than a warrior, FIX IT! Now, my warrior who is DPS is less than a rogue. FIX IT! For me, I feel like this game has been so much more fun the first few days because I have not seen any of this non-sense in game. No one is looking for a specific spec in groups, no one cares if you can parse 5% more than someone else. It is about getting together to complete the goal. Not spend hours on training dummies trying to get that last bit of damage. If you want and need that, there are a ton of games where you can do that. Why not have an alternative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colobulous Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Oh great, lets make the story and community driven MMO a meterfest in which all the terrible players who play their characters lazily constantly moan whilst repeating "I play that character as my main and i'm in the best PvE guild on the server and do the most DPS/healing/aggro and you're doing terrible dps/healing/aggro with it newbzmon!". For a game that's story driven, it sure has a lot of number-based mechanics already. And the stories in it are rather superficial and shallow. Nor would I consider it especially community developing, but that's another issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaddare Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 This. The game Doesn't need macros, you just need to lrn2press moar buttons And you can change the width and height of health and energy bars if you switch party frames to ops frames. Equally, in case you haven't noticed so fixated on the ui you must be but you really dont need to stare at bars, this is the first game where you can heal / dps etc very well bearing in mind everyone has status bars over their heads. In short lrn2adapt you haver to realize some do not turn them on. I do agree though they make it so much easier to heal and with everythign set to my mouse i just glide it over a person and click a few buttons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaddare Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 the ui needs work... but if you need mods and macros to play then you simply are bad and need a crutch to make up for lack of skill. well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colobulous Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 What I am saying, is if you cannot play WITHOUT macros, you are CRAP. If youre a great player and you use macro's to give you an edge, whatever. But If you cannot play on a competitive level (raiding and endgame PvP) without the use of an aid, you are a bad player. There is NO arguing that. Sure there is. It's called you being judgmental, and looking down on other players. That's not actually a judgment of the person, it's a reflection of you and how you treat others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltAU Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 The one thing that they should have copied exactly, to the finest detail from WoW and they failed. Many WoW players use mods etc in WoW but their UI as it stands today is excellent. Its had years of polish and TOR should have copied everything they did. Not just the UI either but also the AH system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jharex Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 It didn't ruin WoW in the slightest. It simply gave whiners more reason to whine when they were called out for doing 1/10 of the dps everybody else was doing. I can only come to one conclusion people that hate dmg meters are the people who never learned to play, and used the excuse "I play to have fun". Guess what we all do, and when we wipe because a boss didn't go down because the fight simply lasted to long guess what.. That's no fun for us because you were on auto-attack. I am a HUGE WoL Ranking/Recount *****, but it's a refreshing change of pace to not have it. It'll be annoying if you're hitting enrages (if they have them), but other than that, I hope they're not quick to add it. If you're complaining about recount now, you're the exact type of person that makes WoW annoying: you're leveling, not min/maxing, why do you care about DPS right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colobulous Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 It depends on the macros and add-ons. I think everybody pro-addon is cognizant of the need for a properly constructed system that is managed to prevent excesses. I still don't get damage meters. What happens is people find the best rotation with the best spec for most damage and everyone follows. If you are not 100% certain how well you are doing, but are performing well enough to do your job what the heck is the difference? I felt like half the whining of balance in Rift was because of damage meters. My rogue is parsing less than a warrior, FIX IT! Now, my warrior who is DPS is less than a rogue. FIX IT! You're mistaken, it's because of a lack of understanding of mechanics on the construction side. A well-designed game would have already covered that sort of thing, but not having a meter? Doesn't mean the exploitation isn't there, it's just not apparent. Me? I'd rather not hide the flaws. Best rotation, best spec, that could be handled with good design too, to allow for variety and choice, but here's a problem, you still want there to be good choices and bad, and if you want it to be a challenge, the bad will outnumber the good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colobulous Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 And we're all sorry that you guys cant seem to play without magic glowing buttons telling you what to do and when to do it every second that you're in the game. Must be rough not being able to do anything at all without something there to tell you how and when to do it. Now you understand how airplanes work. And cars. And computers. And so much more. Guess what? It's a computer game, it has to have a working interface, otherwise people won't know what to do, will they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJMosling Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 actually it is the opposite the use of macros reduces the skill required to play a game. Macros tend to lead to button mashing which requires little skill Is this a personal example or do you have evidence to back up this claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 The one thing that they should have copied exactly, to the finest detail from WoW and they failed. Many WoW players use mods etc in WoW but their UI as it stands today is excellent. Its had years of polish and TOR should have copied everything they did. Not just the UI either but also the AH system. SWTOR will have addons and macros soon. They're confirmed by the devs. Just have to be patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairenn Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I can't wait until they do allow them. I love the communities we create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceydeadppl Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Having a blast playing solo but I really like big raids at lvl cap. From my limited experience thus far I don't think I'll have much fun healing without either some simple mouse-over macro ability or addons. It doesn't have to be complex multi-spell abilities. I'm just talking about mouse over targeting really. Developers plz give us some love! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkssvegita Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Macros are needed that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syleal Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Yeah the horrible UI design is my biggest problem with the game (second biggest problem is the lack of dynamic gameplay). I think the issue with the UI is that the lead UI "designer" isn't a designer at all--but rather a fine artist/illustrator. No thought was put into usability or interaction with the environment and other players. I've played the game for 3 days straight, and not once have I spoken with another player. This is mainly due to the fact that I do not know when someone is talking to me, nor is it self-evident how to talk to another person. For the life of me, I just do not understand why there are NO chat bubbles. How could they leave something like that out? Are we just supposed to watch "Barrens Chat" in the upper left-hand window scroll by at 20 point type in the hopes that someone will mention my name in the 4 seconds it takes for a new message to scroll by? It's ridiculous. This. So much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNisch Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 The game is 100% playable without mods or macros. No need to fix what isn't broken.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toweleeeie Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 (edited) UI customization is the only thing this game needs. No Macros please, I liked to play my games with... you know... skill. Edited December 18, 2011 by Toweleeeie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochlin Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I want a way to customize my UI to that I can get essental info for healing. It would make healing more efficient for myself and I am sure others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demote Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 (edited) Agreed the UI is horrible in comparison to any other major MMO right now. Why can't we see the target of a target? or why can't we see our party member's target? NO MODS? So you're going to give us a game that has extremely rudimentary user interface customization, and then not allow the people who might want to take the game seriously use add-ons? If Bioware doesn't allow add-ons you can pretty much say goodbye to any serious MMO players. There will be nothing left except little kids, casual gamers, and hardcore starwars fans. The Galactic Trade interface is horrendous. Why do you have to do something different, you already used a lot of concepts similar to WoW and other MMOs, why not implement concepts that have been proven to work easily here too? Ugh, the stories are great, the combat can be exciting (unless you're a level 19 sith inquisitor trying to heal, where they only give you 2 healing spells both of which are single-target healing. hello, how about SOME form of AoE or HoT healing by level 19?) but the UI and lack of customization almost negates all of that. Needless to say, they got my money from the preorder, but if they want to keep getting my money they better get their **** together. From what I hear the beta testers have been complaining about these problems for a long while, and have gone ignored. Edited December 18, 2011 by Demote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumire Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I was looking for a way to add /targetself macros, i presume this cannot be done? Also, not being able to move character portraits is a pain when healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loska Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Mobeable UI would be nice, macros for guild advertisting maybe. But macros for combat bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinthar Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Currently there is a level playing field. Everyone has the same UI. Everyone has the same information shown to them. As soon as mods and add-ons and to a lesser extent UI customisation is allowed EVEYTHING changes: Joe Casual, who has no want or desire to change things, finds himself at a disadvantage in PvP over Peter Pr0, as he doesn't want or feel he needs the crazy mod/ui/add-ons to play his game Peter Pr0, who has a combat log parser, notices that Andy Average is doing 10% less damage than he is, and so boots him from the Operation group on the grounds that "He is the same class as I am, he should be able to put the same damage output out there as I can". Andy Average has some UI customisation, but CAB with the complexity of mods and add-ons Zoe Zealot has an add-on which evaluates potential guild/groupmates based on a combination of their item level and stat scores. She will not allow anyone with less than score X join her guild or group, telling Andy Average that he's not good enough and laughing at Joe Casual. See where I'm going with this? For a MMO to remain playable and fair the game has to remain as it is, so we're all on a level playing field. Sure, it's not as slick as "the other games out there" but this is SWTOR. It should stand on it's own and the devs need to be brave enough to stand fast to their vision, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sicknss Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Mobeable UI would be nice, macros for guild advertisting maybe. But macros for combat bad idea. Just curious why people think macros for combat are such a bad idea? Most people use them to clean up their UI. Rather than having 3 different buttons for 1, shift+1 and ctrl+1 you can have one button do all 3 in wow. There's no advantage, just 2 clear spots on the UI. Today we have keyboards and mice that can record and play back actual macros, UI based macros don't have this functionality at all... so why are they so hated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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