10 Reason Why You Should Quit Your Operative

[Xaearth]

What is stupid is the fact that obviously the people that QQ about operatives are passionate about the class and they want it to be awesome. Too bad they display their passion in negative way's that primarily get ignored.

 

On the contrary, the dev team has proven time and time again that they prefer QQ over rational, reasonable arguments for class balance.

 

All you have to do is look at the history of nerfs to the Operative class and the current state of healers.

[Obtena]

That is simply a problem with people making associations and perception. If people were less dumb, it would be less of a problem. Truth is that you can only believe what they tell you and hope it's how they do things. Anything else is just speculation. You can believe speculation based on false associations if you want. People can convince themselves of anything they want to believe. If you aren't willing to believe them, you don't have anything to add to the community when it comes to discussing changes because you aren't willing to work in their framework for developing the game. That's just a lost opportunity and it's why everyone who is rational understands why QQ is stupid.

 

Regardless of who is right, the approach to QQing doesn't tend to fix things because it's not an appropriate way to pose any problem with any level of sincerity. QQing may change things ... fix them I doubt because it's simply a poorly formed problem statement.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Obtena

[Ryemfoh]

People can convince themselves of anything they want to believe.

 

Very true, in-fact studies have shown that when you present a "believer" with proof contrary to their beliefs it actually makes them believe more rather than less ... Human's are funny things.

[Roxax]

Couldn't agree more with everything you said mate, we are the most gimped class at the moment, people come in here just to compare with their classes, unless they play one (which the majority do not or have not) they have no clue and just say stop crying etc, at release and in beta we were sorcs anti class (and sages) , the 2 most popular played classes, I'm guessing they didn't like dying so they had a HUGE whinge and since there was so many, we got hit, which is complete ********, we now are NO ones anti class, at all, period. Oh and the most OP class Sent / Mara get a buff, way to go....

I agree with everything EXCEPT Sent / Mara being OP before our buff, ***? The ONLY moment of OP I've seen a Sent / Mara have pre-1.2 was when we had all of our defensive CDs up. Other than that, people could just laugh in our face all day because other classes were more of a threat.

[Sykus]

Really? people are upset about that god awful laugh on a 100% proc that annoys the entire group? It's 100% when you do X. Did you do X? Then it's up. What do you need an annoying sound for?

[LeperJack]

Truth is that you can only believe what they tell you and hope it's how they do things. Anything else is just speculation.

Fallacy: Appeal to authority.

 

The truth is that one can look at both actions, facts, statements, patterns of behavior, and many other factors both preceding and after an action to gain tremendous insight, and provide probable reasons and deduct future patterns of behavior.

 

For instance:

1. Months of testing and focused examination of something like a tradeskill is put in place in the game.
   
2. After initial adjustments, the tradeskill is deemed to be suitable.
   
3. Certain vocal parts of the community who do not wish to utilize that tradeskill complain that its rewards are too high, despite actually being far less than a variety of other activities, including most other tradeskills.
   
4. More adjustments are made, and the tradeskill is deemed to be suitable.
   
5. Certain vocal parts of the community who do not wish to utilize that tradeskill complain that its rewards are too high, despite actually being far less than a variety of other activities, including all other tradeskills.
   
6. More adjustments are made, and the tradeskill is deemed to be suitable for "launch." The tradeskill remains as altered for several months of further testing.
   
7. After launch, certain vocal parts of the community who do not wish to utilize that tradeskill complain that its rewards are too high, despite actually being far less than a variety of other activities, including all other tradeskills, and is having a beneficial effect of a floundering "fresh" economy as it stands. These complaints, due to the increased number of players after launch, reach a volume the devolpers have not seen before, including semi-organized "twitter bomb" complaints.
   
8. The developers claim that a "bug" has resulted in much higher return that they had not noticed previously during MONTHS of testing (during which time the returns from that tradeskill were entirely consistent, trackable, observable, and were actually being tracked and openly reported by several testers.) and the returns will be "tweaked." More adjustments are made, and the tradeskill is deemed suitable by everyone but the people actually paying to play the game. (Not counting several forum posts by members of EA/BioWare "creative Marketing" departments. You might recognize a few of them ITT!)
   
9. Excited by this, certain vocal parts of the community who do not wish to utilize that tradeskill continue to complain that its rewards are too high, despite actually being far less than a variety of other activities, including all other tradeskills. Due to a lack of return on this tradeskill, many players have abandoned it entirely, and the lack of its former primary return in the economy causes a continuous drag in its flow.
   
10. Further unnanounced changes are made to the tradeskill to further lower its returns.
    
11. Vocal parts of the community diminish their complaints on this issue, but begin to complain about the costs of items given that they have just sabotaged the primary driving force of their economy and sent it into a spiral of returns lower than costs.
    
12. Changes are made to the inbuilt costs of the expenses of the game, which are suspiciously similar in proportion to the loss of flow from the adjusted tradeskill, making it a wash for players using that tradeskill, but a net gain for players using others.

 

Given that you can replace "tradeskill" with "[utility]," "class," "healing," and various other game terms and this cycle of behavior continues to stay quite true, I'd say that these people are not far off from accurately describing the behavior of the developers.

Edited April 26, 2012 by LeperJack

[QuiJonPed]

Sheep bleat, pigs squeal. If you are going to actively insult people you'd probably be better served by getting the basics right at least.

 

Woah sounds like someone is stuck and needs a hand!

 

People bleat too, which is my point and one you have delightfully demonstrated.

[SammuelSK]

Woah sounds like someone is stuck and needs a hand!

 

People bleat too, which is my point and one you have delightfully demonstrated.

 

Just... stop talking... *facepalm*

[Obtena]

Given that you can replace "tradeskill" with "[utility]," "class," "healing," and various other game terms and this cycle of behavior continues to stay quite true, I'd say that these people are not far off from accurately describing the behavior of the developers.

 

So ... it's a reason to quit? I mean, if what you say is true, then it's happening to every class and every aspect of the game. Maybe it's just me but developer behaviour and methods to develop the game aren't reasons I choose to play or quit any game.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Obtena

[Zaragosa]

Easy solution for everyone complaining about their given class: QUIT PVP. All nerfs in every MMO occure because of PVP. Usually taking the talents and stretching them to something not intended. IMO nerf the f$^% outta PVPbut leave PVE as is. How? your skills/talents change when flagged, otherwise they work as intended.

[LeperJack]

So ... it's a reason to quit?

Fallacy: "straw man" argument.

 

I didn't say it was a reason for me personally to quit. If I believed so, I would have done so. I believe some may consider it to be so (as some have demonstrated as much by quitting and leaving forum feedback (and feedback elsewhere) that specifically stated their reasons for cancelling their subscription.

 

If I believed it was a reason for everyone to quit, or even a majority to quit, then I would still probably quit, as being the lone individual on a server (which would be the result of a majority of players quitting) is not an appealing notion.

 

I mean, if what you say is true, then it's happening to every class and every aspect of the game.

Fallacy: "straw man" argument.

 

Happening to a variety of specs/classes/game aspects is not every class, nor every aspect of the game. Some≠all.

 

Even among the "variety" there is a further degree of separation in severity. If the changes were happening across the board, and equally distributed, I would care far less. The inequality is what bothers me.

 

Maybe it's just me but developer behaviour and methods to develop the game aren't reasons I choose to play or quit any game.

Developer methods and behavior shape the game they develop. I am not entirely sure why you might think otherwise. (if you do)

 

As a result, developer methods and behavior have an impact on game play. How the game plays is indeed a reason to play (or not play) a game for many players. If you use a separate metric on choosing which game to hand your money to, then more power to you, of course.

 

While I haven't come to the point of quitting, I have found the increasingly erratic and unpredictable changes in gameplay due to developers abandoning basic design precepts in favor of "mob rule" to be distressing and tiring.

[FluxWing]

These last few posts reminds me of this comic strip:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/10/24

I guess he wasn't alone wishing for such a class.

 

I think much of the balance problems for this AC originates from Hidden Strike. In a PvE setting it is such a small part of the battle it can be neglected.

 

But at the same time in PvP Hidden Strike is such a large part of the battle, that if coupled with equal sustained damage potential of the other classes, it sways the battle way too far in the Operative's favor.

 

Seen from the victim point of view of a 4k Hidden Strike, you start the fight stunned at 75% HP. With a double hidden strike you start at 50% HP stunned. You can't control your character nor influence the battle in any way.

 

Even if the victim is in a group, the initial hit is unstoppable and uncounterable since it is the first hit from stealth. You can not preemtively taunt the attacker or use defensive CDs to diminish Hidden Strike's effect.

 

If the battle then resumes with 1 player at 50-75%, with other factors such as damage potential and survivability of all other players involved being equal out of stealth. Would such a battle scenario not heavily favor the operative's team?

 

If Hidden Strike was simply removed, I'm convinced that the out of stealth combat potential of the Operative could be more easily improved.

[Rikeryo]

they should just copy more from the WoW rogue, what's the problem?

[Migrayn]

I give you one reason why to continue playing the class. Because it is fun. A lot of fun to play. I have no issues healing or dps. I am 5% behind the mauraders in my guild on OPS. A lot of belly aching going on here but these are gaming forums. I believe this has to do with entitlement.

 

So you thinks its even to be 5% behind in damage to a class that has more mobility and better decence then a dps operative? Usually higher defence means lower offence in mmo's. So why does a maurader have higher defence and higher offence and you call it fair.

 

Ill tell you how bad dps operatives are. I usually play heal spec and a laugh when they attack me. Their burst does not hurt me enough to kill me. I jusg stun and run or heal up. Now i hate when assassins mauraders or bh/commandowesdecide.to attack me. That is usually death.

[mulzii]

The problem is not the DPS of operatives making players complain, its the knockdown. There is absolutely no defense for it. When you combine it with burst dps, people are at 50-25% health before they can even get up and do anything (def cd, heal, run, etc).

 

The fixes are quite simple really.

1. change Hidden strike (the knockdown) to be used only when NOT stealthed

2. Make the knockdown require a buff from a different skill that cannot be used while stealthed.

That would make the operative have to fight the person while visible and give the target some recourse to avoid,

mitigate the knockdown.

3. remove the knockdown all together and buff the dps a bit.

4. Change the knockdown to a stun, so people can use their anti-cc to get out of it.

 

Being an operative myself, i'd prefer #4.

 

Nothing makes people QQ more then suddenly getting knocked down and half their health or more gone, with no method to mitigate/avoid the knockdown and the incoming dmg while they slowly get up.

[Migrayn]

The problem is not the DPS of operatives making players complain, its the knockdown. There is absolutely no defense for it. When you combine it with burst dps, people are at 50-25% health before they can even get up and do anything (def cd, heal, run, etc).

 

The fixes are quite simple really.

1. change Hidden strike (the knockdown) to be used only when NOT stealthed

2. Make the knockdown require a buff from a different skill that cannot be used while stealthed.

That would make the operative have to fight the person while visible and give the target some recourse to avoid,

mitigate the knockdown.

3. remove the knockdown all together and buff the dps a bit.

4. Change the knockdown to a stun, so people can use their anti-cc to get out of it.

 

Being an operative myself, i'd prefer #4.

 

Nothing makes people QQ more then suddenly getting knocked down and half their health or more gone, with no method to mitigate/avoid the knockdown and the incoming dmg while they slowly get up.

 

Maybe your hiddenstrike hits for 7k or more but mine doesnt. The knockdown is 1.5s the same as the gcd. Tbey stand up as you are debilitate stunning them or backstabbing them. The knockdown is hardly game breaking.

 

It is no worse then getting pushed 500 ft away and on your face or getting knocked back every time you get into melee range with no way to get back to the fight.

 

I laugh when dps operatives or scoundrels open up on my healer now. Every other class im afraid of.

[manlysnowball]

The problem is not the DPS of operatives making players complain, its the knockdown. There is absolutely no defense for it. When you combine it with burst dps, people are at 50-25% health before they can even get up and do anything (def cd, heal, run, etc).

 

The fixes are quite simple really.

1. change Hidden strike (the knockdown) to be used only when NOT stealthed

2. Make the knockdown require a buff from a different skill that cannot be used while stealthed.

That would make the operative have to fight the person while visible and give the target some recourse to avoid,

mitigate the knockdown.

3. remove the knockdown all together and buff the dps a bit.

4. Change the knockdown to a stun, so people can use their anti-cc to get out of it.

 

Being an operative myself, i'd prefer #4.

 

Nothing makes people QQ more then suddenly getting knocked down and half their health or more gone, with no method to mitigate/avoid the knockdown and the incoming dmg while they slowly get up.

 

You can use your Trinket to quick stand out of Operative knock down, if you were an Operative you'd know that.

[Ryemfoh]

You can use your Trinket to quick stand out of Operative knock down, if you were an Operative you'd know that.

 

As an Operative I would love it if more people used their CC break to get out of our 1.5s stun ... that would leave them vulnerable to a Debilitate and Flashback - much more effective CC's than a single GCD during which time I can do no damage to them.

 

We are a stealth class - we thrive on making our opponents panic. Jarring Strike is just part of the fear-factor, already substantially reduced by the undocumented animation fixes of 1.2 (stand no longer prevents ability casting for an additional 1 - 1.5s after Jarring Strike)

[txfooz]

Been an OP since beta and just canceled my sub. Bought another MMO that I won't mention.

 

I may return if they ever balance the class.

 

Adiós Amigos!

[Juggler]

you can use your skill when your knocked down after a hidden strike

you can shield you can force jump as you like

 

the concept of that class has been removed since the first nerf

thats why it is a broken class and no fun to play on pvp

the only thing thats left for us are the nearly dead opponents the real dps classes have left over

 

and bioware knows that. its the reason why we never get a reply from a dev to our requests or questions

we are the bastards that no one wants to care about

Edited April 30, 2012 by Juggler

[Fallenturtle]

you can use your skill when your knocked down after a hidden strike

you can shield you can force jump as you like

 

the concept of that class has been removed since the first nerf

thats why it is a broken class and no fun to play on pvp

the only thing thats left for us are the nearly dead opponents the real dps classes have left over

 

and bioware knows that. its the reason why we never get a reply from a dev to our requests or questions

we are the bastards that no one wants to care about

 

I totaly agree, there has been SEVERAL good suggestions on how to fix our class on the forums, and we don't even get a fracking dev on this forum except when we mention rage about marauders.. it shows that they don't care about 1/4th of their community.

[Pexalottle]

Being a sawbones scoundrel I've noticed a few problems:

- During PVP after I've taken a lot of damage and try to heal up I use dodge to try and negate attacks while I heal up but it seems that if my heal is interrupted with that move that every class has that gives it a 4 second CD to whatever move was used. DODGE COMPLETELY STOPS WORKING AND I AM PRONE TO WHATEVER ATTACKS THEY THROW AT ME. PLEASE FIX THIS.

- Another is that Defense Screen seems to do very little or nothing at all. At first I tried using this ability before dodge and the probe would come down but nothing would happen, the enemy would still shred through me like paper. As a healer this ability is on a 45 second CD and doesn't come anywhere close to comparing with the sage ability; force armor which is usable on teammates and has no CD.

- Not one gap closer other than stealth. I also have a Vanguard and a Sage and they have such awesome abilities like charge, grapple, rescue and force wave, as a scoundrel I have not one ability that lets me move the enemy around a little. My vanguard has storm which during huttball lets me charge at an enemy on the scaffolding, if I were a scrapper I would have to find the nearest ramp to get all the way up there, or pray that the air vent would put me up there somewhere.

 

I've been annihilated by some DPS operatives who basically just keep hitting but now that I think about it every one of them has been well geared and it just doesn't compare to the sents/maras who storm in with recruit gear and slaughter everything.

[NismoGThirtyfive]

Seems like everyone is complaining about classes right now, I've actually wandered out the trooper forum to try and find a class who aren't complaining as I plan on starting a new character. My journey continues ...

 

if people will complain they will. I use to read the forums alot but they just get really annoying to read. Just play and enjoy

[revial]

9. Infiltrate is Totally Useless: Tell me honestly how many times you've use it for something actually meaningful...

 

Infiltrate is not useless. The amount of nerdrage you can instill in your PUG in Voidstar as you use it while half your team just finished clearing the defense at a door is of epic lol proportions.

[Escarrabutxaques]

Infiltrate is not useless. The amount of nerdrage you can instill in your PUG in Voidstar as you use it while half your team just finished clearing the defense at a door is of epic lol proportions.

 

xD I should try that