This spec is by far the most effective solo spec I've tried. Energy management is easy with cheap BS, healing is strong enough to use a DPS companion (I prefer Vector .. Temple is just annoying), and you have decent DPS with Laceration + CS. Improved Stealth is also awesome for bypassing trash safely. I tend to keep HoT's running on me and my companion all the time, so usually have 2-3 TA's available right at the start of the fight which makes trash go real fast.

Riiight ... you came up with this brilliant concept all on your own? Genius.

Hmm ... Deadly Poison much? *yawn*

Excellent video as always - the caps with your assassin friend were amazing. My assassin friend and I rarely attempt to cap against more than 2 defenders - we will have to give it a try next time.

Concealment all the way - Kaliyo to begin with and then Doc Lokin as soon as you get him. H2+'s and some H4+'s are easily soloed if you head straight for the objective in stealth rather than trying to kill your way there. Before picking up the Doctor, I occasionally used the ship robot to heal for particularly tough heroics.

As I said, the lower tier Med talents are all pretty equal. The 2 Endorphine Rush points in particular, and I often move them around. Surgical Steadiness is a great talent as well, but I tend to only go hybrid for solo-defending and then I rely on HoT's, SP spam and stun+heals so it's of limited value given that playstyle. I think you should do the math on Inclement Conditioning because you seem to favour it and it's really poor. In full WH gear I have just under 20k HP fully buffed. 2% of that is 400 HP - or about 1/2 the damage of a single Rifle Shot per point ... It's a terrible talent. Staying with the group during attack phase is fine, but the real strength of the spec is in solo-defending. When you're with the group you will get focussed if it looks like you're casting heals, but having Laceration means you can get the target off you faster. I prefer to play as a DPS and only self-heal if I'm in the main battle, or the spec can also be good when teamed with another DPS (Conc Op or Decep'sin are best) to attack the off-node because you can HoT up the other DPS so they can go all-out without worrying about dying. TBH I often just respec pure heals / dps for the attacking phase though - they are generally much more useful than hybrids during that part of the match. Toxin Scan is really really good, and should pretty much be used on CD against Bounty Hunter/Warrior/Agent classes. Tox Screen allows the removal of Awe/Intimidating Roar and Mind Trap (there might be others), and more importantly the heal is instant and hits for around 800HP for 10e, that alone is worth the point. Edit: Fixed Tox Scan -> Tox Screen.

I think you are maybe under-estimating how much attention you will generate with this playstyle. The only ability people don't really notice is Corrosive Dart, all the others will get people running at you (also, iirc snipe is the worst DPE ability we have - definitely not worth using given you have to be static while casting). Expect to get hit, and expect to have a tough time getting away ... Surgical Probe spam is the main reason that hybrid / kite specs work because there is no way to escape for long enough without it unless you're playing against someone *really* bad. Energy is frustrating for Lethality spec, but mostly because of cooldown convergences (i.e. every 110s or so) and because of the spiky nature of your regen since it's based on DoT crits (you will cap energy as often as you run low, and the only energy dump is Overload Shot which is pretty terrible). The "mid-range" is a common misconception for Lethality - it is a melee spec and using BS and Shiv on cooldown should be a priority for any Lethality DPS. Yes, you can kite in-and-out during melee ability CD's, and I sometimes do the same in Concealment spec, but it is much harder than just staying in range and controlling your target. DoT's alone will be less than 50% of the damage potential of a full Lethality spec if your don't go up to Weakening Blast - particularly in PVP unless you're spamming Dart on multiple targets - and they don't tick hard or fast enough to make kiting someone with 20k HP who's chasing you down a viable strategy (imo). This is the core of the problem with the spec imo. I suspect you might take 25 - 30% less damage, but you're giving up a good 50% damage by staying out of melee range. Remember - people assume that Operatives who are attempting to stay out of range are healers Also remember that not having TA's for Stim Boost up is going to really hurt your DPS because you're giving up (at minimum) 1 energy / second. Corrosive Dart spam can get your energy income high enough to make up for the lack of TA's, but it has a prohibitively expensive or slow setup time. You also shouldn't expect to get many TA's from killing blows since low health targets are pretty much always focussed by other DPS classes who are much more likely to get an execute move off for the kill than for your once-every-3-second DoT ticks. TL;DR: DoT spam / ranged only damage is much too low to make the spec useful in PVP. You might pad your numbers through multi-dotting, but you would generally be more effective if you were able to actually finish off your targets quicker. There is only 1 multi-dotter that I've seen play effectively in PVP (my forum arch-nemesis Morbius ) and that is because he is able to split his focus between multi-dotting and moving in for the kill on priority targets.

While BS and Shiv are on CD there is no reason to stay inside melee range unless you have a TA for Laceration. Staying in the sweet spot (5 - 10m from the target) can decrease your incoming damage quite a bit at the times when you're just using RS to keep your energy high. It's not easy though, and I don't do it on most fights unless it's lasting a while and/or I need to position for a knockback / LoS / whatever anyway.

TA's for Med last 16s not the 10s a DPS build has. This means you can self-heal+1-stack HoT+Stealth as soon as you see someone coming and start the fight with 2 - 3 TA's ready to go. Those TA's can also be vital later on in the fight after a stun+heal (the stun being the main reason why Surgical Steadiness isn't required unless you're fighting in the main group and have multiple incoming damage sources). Incisive Action is another option but I find it fairly meh given my play-style (I sometimes take those points over Endorphine Rush though). There are really quite a few options in the lower tiers of the med tree because all the talents are reasonably strong in PVP / Hybrid builds, so it comes down to where you think the points will have the best effect for you. Agreed - I only switch to it if I'm full heal spec'd to begin with but the opposing team has 3 healers and our team is a little low on DPS (i.e. very rarely) Without Cull, there is nothing really to use the TA's though (unless you're saving them for heals) ... so there is no point in generating them other than survivability. Going high enough to pick up Cull basically puts you in the position that it's better to fill out the tree than to go into a hybrid at that point since you miss all the really good abilities in the other trees. I understand what you're trying to build here, but I think you'll be disappointed ... The DPS/DPS hybrid builds for Operative just miss out on way too much damage from the top of both trees, the Acid Blade DoT alone for example is worth between 15 and 25% of our damage over a 5 min fight (PVE), so for shorter PVP fights that number is significantly higher. The same goes for Weakening Blast which is not only a significant boost to DoT's and Cull, but also an important energy management tool for Lethality. In this particular build you also have literally nothing to use TA's on except Kolto Infusion and Carbine Burst (although I suppose you're not trying to generate any with that play-style). If you really want to give it a try though, I'd suggest moving a couple talents around - the extra damage will more than off-set the slight loss in survivability for when you are caught. Regarding Scouting - it is a great talent when you're attacking a node that is defended by 1+ stealthers. As mentioned, while attacking you will be hitting sneak when you get close to the node, but it helps quite a lot in finding the hidden defenders which can give you the edge in the fight. However, for this spec I think it would be a waste, and in-fact in any hybrid spec your strength is in solo-defending rather than solo-attacking (better to attack with the main group).

6% higher Carbine Burst and an extra grenade which should get 1 - 3 ticks on most groups is not the same as a healer though. That's not to say that it's particularly good, but Lethality is probably marginally ahead of Concealment for trash pulls with 2+ mobs provided they can be grouped up. The only real issue with Lethality on trash is that multi-dotting a-la WoW Warlock is not viable due to the horribly slow DoT tick times and extremely high energy costs.

Also just "hybrid" and limited to the Operative thread. I agree that there is a fair bit of fluff to work through in the returned threads, and that much of the information is old (although the spec's haven't changed much since 1.2), but one of the reasons for this is that we get new threads like this one popping up all the time and diluting the pool You are welcome to turn this thread into an up-to-date "All things Hybrid" thread - just do some digging and experimenting and then edit your original post. To get things started, this is my preferred Hybrid build, but I also occasionally run with this one. The two play fairly differently, the first being a solo-defender / un-killable / PuG spec where I'm only really healing myself and mostly doing damage. The second is if I'm staying with the group and primarily healing, but can add some decent damage through Laceration when you have an extra TA or two (this is a great spec when you're grouped with a great dedicated healer - particularly another Op healer - and a second full healer isn't really required ... usually not viable for rated though). Talent choices I believe are fairly self-explanatory, but feel free to ask if you have any questions. The most important thing is to get up to Surgical Probe (with Surgical Precision) in the Med tree. Having access to 3x TA's and SP spam is the only thing that makes hybrids viable imo. This is the reason why I'm not a big fan of Lethality Hybrid as well - their TA-consuming ability (Cull) is too high up the tree.

Wow - I do believe you're right! When 1.3 hit we had a lengthy discussion in the guild about the changes and we were basically told to leave the boosts for healers since it doesn't effect damage any more, but looking at the patch notes the change only effected Adrenals, not the boosts on the maps. Thanks for bringing this to my attention and apologies for the error!

The "significant" was referring to the 35% in-combat boost, not the 15% OOC boost which is nice but not fantastic. I agree it'll usually not be worth using Vanish just for the speed boost, but with the 30s reduction in CD I do think we'll be using it much more often for Offence than we were previously. What I like about this in PVP is that it allows us to weave in and out of melee range much more effectively which could really change the dynamic of fights against other Melee classes. For that purpose a longer-but-slower speed boost is preferable to a shorter-but-faster one imo. In PVE where you just want to get back on target ASAP then a short fast boost would probably work better.

Lethality specs should all have increased strength Carbine Burst from Cut Down, and if your tank(s) are half decent trash should be nicely grouped and nuked with your 2 'nades and Carbine Burst (and Orbital Strike if appropriate). If you're trying to set up for Cull on trash you're probably not maximising your potential output. But really, no-one selects their group based on trash pulls do they?

Not really ... 50% speed boost out of combat with basically no CD is still 15% faster than any other class, and this is a significant boost to in-combat mobility. Coupled with the speed boost from Debilitate (talented) and Advanced Cloaking we can maintain in-combat speed boosts for a whopping 22 seconds which is huge in PVP (Sneak 50% > Vanish 50% > Sneak 50% > Deb 35%).

Here's one of my favourites, and here is the rest of a very simple search (36 thread results)

Last time I checked, Lethality spec sim'd only slightly below Concealment spec for single target PVE DPS, and above in all AoE / multi-target scenarios. It can be really fun, but is also very frustrating because of the number of cooldowns and DoT's you need to manage, and the terrible UI for doing so. Priorities for Lethality are not as simple as "Use this ability on CD ahead of this other ability" or even "Use this ability on CD if you have > x energy" - it's more like "Use this ability on CD as long as this other ability has more than x seconds left on its CD and you have energy above y and DoT z has <more or less than> xx seconds left in duration" ... this kind of multi-dimensional decision making needs to happen on almost every button-press. As a DoT spec, however, messing up these decisions has less of an impact on your DPS than messing up a decision in Concealment spec as long as you stay in the max regen zone. That said, my main issue with Lethality spec is the spiky'ness of energy regen and usage (you have cooldown convergences which force you to use too many abilities in a short amount of time) which makes it much more difficult to maintain max regen while still keeping a good ability rotation. As others have mentioned, Lethality in PVE should be played as a melee spec, with the same positional requirements as Concealment. If you are spec'd for pure DPS (which you should be in PVE) with your off-tree talents in Concealment, rather than going into the Med tree for extra TA's which some people advocate, then Backstab is still one of your most efficient / effective GCD's and should be kept on cooldown as much as possible.

Hehe - the PVP buff hasn't increased damage since 1.3 - that change was pretty much the last "OMG THEY NERFED OPS AGAIN !!11!1" crying point for all those that claim general game mechanics like the surge nerf effects Operatives more than any other class. Definitely agree that some other specs/classes have instant big-hitters that seem a little OP given their other perks, but a lot of these can be countered with good class knowledge (e.g. knowing that you're going to be in trouble once you hit 30% health against any assassin spec and saving CD's / medpacks appropriately really does make a difference) This is something that the decreased CD on vanish will have an immediate impact on, but also I think it can be largely mitigated by using the right abilities at the right time. E.g. Yes, using a grenade or Overload Shot to finish off someone that's trying to bolt might take 1 GCD less than killing them with RS, but both of these abilities are not worth their energy cost (unless grenade hits 2+ targets), and hitting RS twice instead may just leave you with enough energy for your next engagement. I generally try to stay in the max regen zone at all times, even in PVP, unless I need to finish off a high priority target ASAP or I am 1v1 vs someone that I know for certain I can kill with enough time to regen before support arrives. In PVP the way to stay high in energy is to use CC and LoS'ing around mini-burst phases. We have 12s between each AB+BS during which time only really Laceration (with DoT on target) should be prioritised ... well, possibly Corrosive Dart near the start of the fight as long as you don't anticipate an early FB. Totally agree on DoT/RS damage and I do remember seeing you post something to that effect in another thread.

Try using the forum search function .. there have been quite a few posts (including videos) of the various hybrid specs. Some may be a little out of date, but in general the play style hasn't changed much since 1.2

Definitely L2P issues if you think that the PVP buff still increases damage ... FYI: HS+AB (also BS+AB) is almost certainly doing more than 5k damage with your gear, it's just that it's spread over 6 seconds. The problem with Concealment spec isn't our burst damage or our energy management, it's our sustained damage. In PVP this isn't a problem once you learn when to use your abilities appropriately, but in PVE where most fight lengths require the use of a sustained damage rotation we just can't put out high enough numbers to compete with the PT's / Mara's out there. A simple tweak to RS or maybe adding a few ticks to the AB DoT would be a simple fix to this issue for Concealment without breaking the other specs (RS buff would help Lethality as well). 30s off Vanish should actually help PVE's damage numbers - but we will need to be extra careful with energy management since we won't be able to use AP every time anymore.

That's not my video - I just remembered seeing it. I generally play a full 31pt Concealment spec with off-tree points in Slip Away, but I believe the spec in the video was something similar to this one that I use when toying around as hybrid from time to time.

The main problem with Lethality isn't TA generation - it's energy management. Also, Lethality needs to be in melee range in order to Backstab so it really shouldn't be a problem keeping Shiv on cooldown. I will grant you that on trash or in PVP where you can multi-dot to boost your energy management, extra TA's might be viable - but in PVE boss fights you wouldn't have the energy for the extra Cull's anyway.

The roll isn't instant - so you can lose a second or so ... also, sometimes the little green man is out of my field of view and I roll when I don't intend to.

Here you go: It is basically a specialist solo spec. I've played it a few times, and it's really strong, but when the battle heats up I'm never sure whether to focus heal or focus damage which probably makes me a bit less effective in this spec than others who aren't used to specializing. As a solo PVE spec it is simply unstoppable. You can easily solo all of the dailies (including Ilum and Black Hole heroics), even in mixed Tionese / Columi gear.

Yes, this is how it works .. I think he meant if they move out of the 10m radius of the target before the heal lands (i.e. it only hits 1 target to begin with). In my experience it is very hard to only hit 1 target with this ability.