Selenial Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 When was it ever confirmed or denied that Revan was weaker then the exile or the exile was weaker then him, in the novel it was described as a student/mentor kind of relationship right? (something like that) Not that big of a stretch since Revan was commanding..everyone during the Mando Wars. Doesn't mean he was stronger or weaker, is there some kind of list of Star War's character power level's I missed? lol When fighting nyriss, the exile was being beaten, then revan comes and in one move beats the living crap out of nyriss. When fighting the emperor revan had to bail her out... Besides, even if it was described as mentor student, the mentor has to be more powerful to teach the student. However my love for revan was slightly restored when reading the novel for the second time, seeing his relationship with the exile was touching, and I realized he had a bond with her as strong as his bastillas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 They may not have been a family, but the Son clearly cared for the Daughter. He even does the whole "looking at his hands in grief" thing, and mournfully buries her later. To say that he PLANNED her death is pretty ridiculous. This might be the single best example for the Dark Side being a "side" of the force, and not a corruption. Here is the physical embodiment of the Dark Side, and he DOESN'T want to kill the Daughter, the embodiment of the Light Side. In fact, his entire goal is to kill the Father and escape Mortis, and it's obvious that he never intended the death of the Daughter. He wanted the Father, a person HE saw as a kind of jailer, to die, so that he and the Daughter could regulate themselves. Basically, he wanted freedom; The most core of Sith tenants. Quick note: Abeloth is the embodiment of chaos and corruption, far, FAR more then the Son. Hehe, you actually agreed with her there when you said he only wanted to kill the father... The father was e balance, the grey, when he tried to kill him he wanted to disrupt the balance, and when he got out he'd make it so the disruption leaned the way of the the dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 When fighting nyriss, the exile was being beaten, then revan comes and in one move beats the living crap out of nyriss. When fighting the emperor revan had to bail her out... Besides, even if it was described as mentor student, the mentor has to be more powerful to teach the student. However my love for revan was slightly restored when reading the novel for the second time, seeing his relationship with the exile was touching, and I realized he had a bond with her as strong as his bastillas... Except, you know, Meetra Surik was a Jedi Master that completely rebuilt the Jedi Order and Revan was only a Master in name, since he didn't even consider himself a Jedi anymore (he didn't follow the Code, at least). Drew has a tendency to crap all over other people's characters when he feels like it, not to the extent of She Who Must Not Be Named, but he still stands out for it a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Nice to see some like minded people who realise the disservice done to her character. And its nice to see people agreeing with me... And might I say, I fully enjoy bashing wits with you You seem to have a vast knowledge of star wars lore, so might i ask... Did revan and Carth onasi have a falling out after they killed malak? I mean, back when canderous and revan were trying to figure out who to bring on their trip during the revan novel, they ruled out mission, zaalbar, hk, bastille, juhani, jolee bindo, but never carth, was it because he was a military man????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Except, you know, Meetra Surik was a Jedi Master that completely rebuilt the Jedi Order and Revan was only a Master in name, since he didn't even consider himself a Jedi anymore (he didn't follow the Code, at least). Drew has a tendency to crap all over other people's characters when he feels like it, not to the extent of She Who Must Not Be Named, but he still stands out for it a bit. Except meetra didn't, her followers did she left right after destroying the sith triumvirate (granted she talked to bastilla first) And I agree with the drew karpyshyn part, in the part at the front of the brook outlining the characters meetra was listed as "Jedi knight" and lil old revan was listed as "Jedi master" but you have to remember, she was exiled, and the Jedi order never welcomed her back, so unless her companions made her a master even though she was no where to be found, then she technically wasn't even that... Let alone a knight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) Except meetra didn't, her followers did she left right after destroying the sith triumvirate (granted she talked to bastilla first) And I agree with the drew karpyshyn part, in the part at the front of the brook outlining the characters meetra was listed as "Jedi knight" and lil old revan was listed as "Jedi master" but you have to remember, she was exiled, and the Jedi order never welcomed her back, so unless her companions made her a master even though she was no where to be found, then she technically wasn't even that... Let alone a knight. I should have qualified that as "rebuilt the Jedi Order through her students", but you're right about that. You gotta remember though, there wasn't even a Jedi Order to welcome her back into, it was pretty much gone with the exception of the aforementioned students. And the only reason Revan was even considered a Master is because the Senate bullied the council into it, al a Skywalker. And on the Drew thing, I honestly think he has a thing about making his characters the biggest kids on the playground if he can get away with it, remember, this is Drew "Darth Bane is Just as Strong as Darth Vader" Karpyshyn. Edited April 15, 2012 by Aximand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElrohirEluchil Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 When fighting nyriss, the exile was being beaten, then revan comes and in one move beats the living crap out of nyriss. When fighting the emperor revan had to bail her out... Besides, even if it was described as mentor student, the mentor has to be more powerful to teach the student. However my love for revan was slightly restored when reading the novel for the second time, seeing his relationship with the exile was touching, and I realized he had a bond with her as strong as his bastillas... Beaten in a fair fight =/= Ambushed by suprise. Besides Nyriss intended that lightning attack to be a finishing move against foes who was half beaten. Yes she did put up a force barrier but it was a hasty one and Revan didnt have to charge any attacks just fling it back in her face. Errr... the Exile had to bail Revan out from being killed by the Emperor (in the process giving up the chance for victory >.<) And yes, i really disliked the treatment the Exile got in the Revan novel even if i personally like Revan better then the Exile. But people gotta stop using the Nyriss example, it doesnt prove anything other then that ambushes still works no matter how powerful someone is and that Revan knew Tutaminis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I should have qualified that as "rebuilt the Jedi Order through her students", but you're right about that. You gotta remember though, there wasn't even a Jedi Order to welcome her back into, it was pretty much gone with the exception of the aforementioned students. And the only reason Revan was even considered a Master is because the Senate bullied the council into it, al a Skywalker. And on the Drew thing, I honestly think he has a thing about making his characters the biggest kids on the playground if he can get away with it, remember, this is Drew "Darth Bane is Just as Strong as Darth Vader" Karpyshyn. (lol at the last part, we all know bane was stronger vader was a *****.... I was joking but if u think about it bane was the only reason the sith survived,with the rule of two and all, so his power is really the power of the entire sith order... In terms of prowess in battler though, vader wins lol) I don't remember the senate bullying the council into it, I do believe it was the fact that the Jedi needed the tale of "revan, the prodigal knight" to keep people from hating the Jedi, they were the cause of the Jedi civil war, and the only way people were gonna forget that would be thinking that the Jedi saved the galaxy from it, when all they really did was cause it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Beaten in a fair fight =/= Ambushed by suprise. Besides Nyriss intended that lightning attack to be a finishing move against foes who was half beaten. Yes she did put up a force barrier but it was a hasty one and Revan didnt have to charge any attacks just fling it back in her face. Errr... the Exile had to bail Revan out from being killed by the Emperor (in the process giving up the chance for victory >.<) And yes, i really disliked the treatment the Exile got in the Revan novel even if i personally like Revan better then the Exile. But people gotta stop using the Nyriss example, it doesnt prove anything other then that ambushes still works no matter how powerful someone is and that Revan knew Tutaminis. Yes but being Able to redirect anothers power IS incredible, and powerful.... However there were multiple moments where revan was made out to be more powerful, but it'd not just that. It was mainly rust the exile was made out to be a companion character, as meaningless as Mako, Doc, Qyzen or Andronikos. Revan was the bounty hunter, Knight, Consular and Inquisitor respectively... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElrohirEluchil Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) (lol at the last part, we all know bane was stronger vader was a *****.... I was joking but if u think about it bane was the only reason the sith survived,with the rule of two and all, so his power is really the power of the entire sith order... In terms of prowess in battler though, vader wins lol) I don't remember the senate bullying the council into it, I do believe it was the fact that the Jedi needed the tale of "revan, the prodigal knight" to keep people from hating the Jedi, they were the cause of the Jedi civil war, and the only way people were gonna forget that would be thinking that the Jedi saved the galaxy from it, when all they really did was cause it. The Jedi were the cause for the Jedi civil war? Not really, Revan was the cause for ignoring the council's warnings. Waging a war were he was slowly being pulled to the dark side, then getting controlled by Vitiate without even telling anyone in the Order what he was doing. Not a great tactical decision tbh And yes, the jedi did save the galaxy even if it was via Revan cleaning up his own mess Edit: Yes but being Able to redirect anothers power IS incredible, and powerful.... However there were multiple moments where revan was made out to be more powerful, but it'd not just that. It was mainly rust the exile was made out to be a companion character, as meaningless as Mako, Doc, Qyzen or Andronikos. Revan was the bounty hunter, Knight, Consular and Inquisitor respectively... While it is certainly an impressiv feat within Tutaminis, the move requires more control then actual power And yes, the fact Revan was made out to be so much more powerful then the Exile was kinda sad Edited April 15, 2012 by ElrohirEluchil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 (lol at the last part, we all know bane was stronger vader was a *****.... I was joking but if u think about it bane was the only reason the sith survived,with the rule of two and all, so his power is really the power of the entire sith order... In terms of prowess in battler though, vader wins lol) I don't remember the senate bullying the council into it, I do believe it was the fact that the Jedi needed the tale of "revan, the prodigal knight" to keep people from hating the Jedi, they were the cause of the Jedi civil war, and the only way people were gonna forget that would be thinking that the Jedi saved the galaxy from it, when all they really did was cause it. Actually, Bane is the weakest member of the Banite Sith because he was the first. And I think you're forgetting that the Sith were fine and flourishing (though there was in-fighting) until Bane started killing a bunch of them. With the successive apprentices being stronger than their masters for over a thousand years, Vader would tear Bane a new one without much trouble at all. Uhm, Revan caused the Jedi Civil War. Revan went to war against the Mandalorians against the Council's orders. Revan persuaded many of the Jedi's promising Knights and apprentices to go to war with him. Revan went into the Unknown Regions and confronted the Sith Empire (that the council had sensed, hence the order not to go to war) and came back and started the Jedi Civil War. It was all Revan's fault (and Vitate's to some extent). There wouldn't have been a Jedi Civil War if Revan had heeded the Council's orders and not gone to war. In fact, that actually shows that Revan was more loyal to the Republic than he was to the Jedi Order. All Revan did was clean up his own damn mess during the events of Knights of the Old Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElrohirEluchil Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Actually, Bane is the weakest member of the Banite Sith because he was the first. And I think you're forgetting that the Sith were fine and flourishing (though there was in-fighting) until Bane started killing a bunch of them. With the successive apprentices being stronger than their masters for over a thousand years, Vader would tear Bane a new one without much trouble at all. Uhm, Revan caused the Jedi Civil War. Revan went to war against the Mandalorians against the Council's orders. Revan persuaded many of the Jedi's promising Knights and apprentices to go to war with him. Revan went into the Unknown Regions and confronted the Sith Empire (that the council had sensed, hence the order not to go to war) and came back and started the Jedi Civil War. It was all Revan's fault (and Vitate's to some extent). There wouldn't have been a Jedi Civil War if Revan had heeded the Council's orders and not gone to war. In fact, that actually shows that Revan was more loyal to the Republic than he was to the Jedi Order. All Revan did was clean up his own damn mess during the events of Knights of the Old Republic. ^^ More eloquently put then my post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) ^^ More eloquently put then my post Also: Revan didn't even have the force of will to redeem himself from the Dark Side, he had to be mind wiped in order to go back to the Light, and then he fell right back to the Dark Side during the events of TOR. You know, that whole genocide episode of his. Edited April 15, 2012 by Aximand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElrohirEluchil Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Also: Revan didn't even have the force of will to redeem himself from the Dark Side, he had to be mind wiped in order to go back to the Light, and then he fell right back to the Dark Side during the events of TOR. You know, that whole genocide episode of his. There is that aswell, doesnt seem like he mastered either side of the Force like so many like to belive, he was mastered by the Dark side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invictos Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Also: Revan didn't even have the force of will to redeem himself from the Dark Side, he had to be mind wiped in order to go back to the Light, and then he fell right back to the Dark Side during the events of TOR. You know, that whole genocide episode of his. That's a very good point. I'm willing to accept that Revan's situation is unique, but it seems to me that the uniqueness of his situation doesn't lend him a unique ability to control the Dark Side without being tainted by it. If anything, the opposite would seem to be true, because he doesn't fully remember who he was when he fell the first time. That's in contrast to all of the other Jedi who've done the alignment-switch shuffle, and subsequently preach that the Dark Side is not controllable. Given Revan's past, if I were in his position I would be far more careful about flirting with the Dark Side, not less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 That's a very good point. I'm willing to accept that Revan's situation is unique, but it seems to me that the uniqueness of his situation doesn't lend him a unique ability to control the Dark Side without being tainted by it. If anything, the opposite would seem to be true, because he doesn't fully remember who he was when he fell the first time. That's in contrast to all of the other Jedi who've done the alignment-switch shuffle, and subsequently preach that the Dark Side is not controllable. Given Revan's past, if I were in his position I would be far more careful about flirting with the Dark Side, not less. He does seem to be far more susceptible to the Dark Side than most other Jedi, which really hints towards an almost total lack of self control where it really counts on his part. I find that kind of hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Solrac Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Haters gon hate, simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velaran Posted April 15, 2012 Author Share Posted April 15, 2012 Hehe, you actually agreed with her there when you said he only wanted to kill the father... The father was e balance, the grey, when he tried to kill him he wanted to disrupt the balance, and when he got out he'd make it so the disruption leaned the way of the the dark side. And now your agreeing with me. The Father kept both the Son and Daughter trapped on Mortis, indicating that an overabundance of EITHER side would be bad for the galaxy. If the Light Side was the true, pure, REAL side of the Force, why didn't the Father just let her out? Because there is a balance between the two sides, the Dark Side can't be a corruption. As for the Son wanting to kill the Father; Well, it's been said already. He just wanted the freedom to find his own way in the galaxy. If he and the Daughter had escaped Mortis, there's nothing saying that they wouldn't have been able to find a balance of their own, without the Father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Haters gon hate, simple. Fanboys gonna fan. Your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 And now your agreeing with me. The Father kept both the Son and Daughter trapped on Mortis, indicating that an overabundance of EITHER side would be bad for the galaxy. If the Light Side was the true, pure, REAL side of the Force, why didn't the Father just let her out? Because there is a balance between the two sides, the Dark Side can't be a corruption. As for the Son wanting to kill the Father; Well, it's been said already. He just wanted the freedom to find his own way in the galaxy. If he and the Daughter had escaped Mortis, there's nothing saying that they wouldn't have been able to find a balance of their own, without the Father. The Mortis Trilogy showed you that The Dark Side(Son) didn't want to or didn't mean to, but still brought imbalance. It does it, even if it doesn't want to. It brings imbalance, the Chosen Brought Balance to the Force by ridding the galaxy of the Dark Side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velaran Posted April 15, 2012 Author Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) The Mortis Trilogy showed you that The Dark Side(Son) didn't want to or didn't mean to, but still brought imbalance. It does it, even if it doesn't want to. It brings imbalance, the Chosen Brought Balance to the Force by ridding the galaxy of the Dark Side. YMMV. I got something completely different from that Arc. And if you are correct, then I ask again: Why didn't the Father just release the Daughter? She has no real reason to be there in that case. Or, hell, why not just kill the Son? It would solve every problem right? The entire arc just proved to me that not only is a balance between the Dark Side and Light Side possible, but that it's better then any alternative. IE, the Dark Side needs to exist. Edited April 15, 2012 by Velaran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 When fighting nyriss, the exile was being beaten, then revan comes and in one move beats the living crap out of nyriss. When fighting the emperor revan had to bail her out... Besides, even if it was described as mentor student, the mentor has to be more powerful to teach the student. However my love for revan was slightly restored when reading the novel for the second time, seeing his relationship with the exile was touching, and I realized he had a bond with her as strong as his bastillas... What is funny is that the Exile fully mastered everything Light Side, she even knew the Sever Force ability. Karpyshyn decided to ignore all of that and all the other established canon just to make his baby seem more relevant, Revan was the poster boy, Surik was the real Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Solrac Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Fanboys gonna fan. Your point? I prefer to call myself an ardent admirer, of one of the most unique Dark Lords in SW history, mind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I prefer to call myself an ardent admirer, of one of the most unique Dark Lords in SW history, mind you. Funny thing is, people still refer to Revan as either a Jedi or a Sith, in reality he was neither, he stood alone, Darth Malak said it himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 What is funny is that the Exile fully mastered everything Light Side, she even knew the Sever Force ability. Karpyshyn decided to ignore all of that and all the other established canon just to make his baby seem more relevant, Revan was the poster boy, Surik was the real Jedi. I don't think she mastered the Light-Side. I don't think its possible to master either side unless your someone like Abeloth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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