On Warzone Scoring and Rewards

[Ritterific]

First of all, thank you for the reply and acknowledging some of the problems with the current system. Thank you also for making some changes. Hopefully they work better than the system now in place.

 

To refresh everyone's memories, one of the most important aspects of the new changes is that your team's performance inside the Warzone has a direct impact on a portion of the rewards you are given at the end of the Warzone. Even if your team is losing, the closer you can make the game the better your rewards will be - so don't give up hope! Giving up and letting the other team 'win faster' is now the worst possible route you can take to rewards.

 

Unfortunately, I'm a little confused about the reasoning for the bolded statement. If you are on a team that is losing, in most cases the BEST thing you can do is just huddle up on a turret or capture point and soak up defender points. Huttball of course is the obvious exception, but if you're outmanned/outgunned in Huttball, the only thing you can do is wait for the other team to win.

 

Since losing only gets you commendations for the medals you earn, standing around and getting 3-4 defender medals is better than hopelessly attacking a node and just getting killed.

 

I also thought that the PvP daily quest was being changed to collecting a certain number of WZ medals to incourage players to stay for the end of the match instead of leaving early. If that wasn't the plan, it should be. Something like earn 30 WZ medals would be perfect. If you win, most of the time it's still going to take 3 WZs to get 30. And if you lose, you still get credit for playing. Make sticking around for the end of a WZ WORTH doing and that will keep people from quitting matches early.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Ritterific

[xLittleWingx]

Unless the reward system is fixed. I just hit 50 on my main just prior to 1.2. Without gear I cannot compete. I get no rewards so I get no coms and therefore no gear. So what's the point? !.2 ruined PVP.

 

Considering going to DIII when it releases.

 

The shame is I used to love this game. Now I'm saddened at the changes.

 

[Coldin]

I also thought that the PvP daily quest was being changed to collecting a certain number of WZ medals to incourage players to stay for the end of the match instead of leaving early. If that wasn't the plan, it should be. Something like earn 30 WZ medals would be perfect. If you win, most of the time it's still going to take 3 WZs to get 30. And if you lose, you still get credit for playing. Make sticking around for the end of a WZ WORTH doing and that will keep people from quitting matches early.

 

Yeah. I don't know what happened to that. I don't know if that medal PVP quest even made it to the PTS. (Didn't have a level 50 to check).

 

But I'd much rather have a set of medals that I have to go and get, rather than see if I can get lucky and not go up against a full battlemaster team with half of my team still dressed in blue and green gear.

[VonFinklestein]

Is this coming in the patch tonight?!

[Zocat]

To refresh everyone's memories, one of the most important aspects of the new changes is that your team's performance inside the Warzone has a direct impact on a portion of the rewards you are given at the end of the Warzone. Even if your team is losing, the closer you can make the game the better your rewards will be - so don't give up hope! Giving up and letting the other team 'win faster' is now the worst possible route you can take to rewards.

 

http://i.imgur.com/Z3qho.jpg

 

Yep, my team was really *********** bad that we deserved 0 valor, 0 commendations, 0 credits.

Oh wait ... it was a *********** draw...

[islander]

http://i.imgur.com/Z3qho.jpg

 

Yep, my team was really *********** bad that we deserved 0 valor, 0 commendations, 0 credits.

Oh wait ... it was a *********** draw...

 

What are you complaining about again? You got your valor and comms. You RNG lost a tie, too bad, so sad. Here's an idea - open a second door next time.

Edited April 17, 2012 by islander

[Malanoth]

I've had enough of this crap. My Operative has been nerfed to the point that its incredibly weak in PvP once the opener has been done and I am sitting there out of stealth only having taken 10-15% of their HP (and often less) away, then I am cannon fodder to anyone that is is bothered to hit me two times.

 

MY stealth is talented 3/3 yet I get spotted way too easily and once I stop hitting someone it takes me up 18 seconds sometimes to drop combat so I can restealth. My abilities are on silly long cooldowns so I resorted to cost free spammable attacks way TOO much. So, having all but wriiten DPS off I respec healer because at least that spec is pretty damn decent now.

 

I've just done 4 WZ's as a healer having got home from a hard (stressy) day at work. I blasted into SWTOR believe it or not to unwind for an hour or so. Each game was crap. Players dont care anymore. In Civil War most of the team just ran to one turret, capped it and then stood there geting defender points so they could get 3 medals. Meanwhile I am running round trying to heal people but getting caught by 3+ opposing players and dying. I could not get more than 2 medals (mostly 1) as a healer in these games I joined. They were horrendous.

 

Thats an hour of my time for absolutely nothing but a ton of frustration. Bioware you have all but destroyed PvP. You deploy patch 1.2 then call us beta testers (effectively). Your Dev's just aren't cutting it, certainly as far as PvP goes, its horribly unbalanced. Certain AC's of the Bounty Hunter, Inquisitor , and Warrior (and their Republic counterparts) are still unfairly dominating PvP and then you do this to the player base.

 

Well I've had enough so I am voting with my feet. You know I used to think that the WoW Devs had a fairly big disconnect with the community, and on some things they did (which they later admitted) but I was msotly wrong, looking back. It pales into comparison to you guys. Your really do know how to destroy gamers souls.

[Coldin]

What are you complaining about again? You got your valor and comms. You RNG lost a tie, too bad, so sad. Here's an idea - open a second door next time.

 

Sometimes you just can't. 2-2 scoring games are pretty common in voidstar against equal teams.

 

And the poster is complaining about getting 0 credits for the warzone, even though they put in the time, and got medals.

 

 

I was hoping these pvp changes would be in the patch today. I guess not.

[Xygoz]

We need a solution to the current state of PVP in TOR... Best i've read so far its here --------> http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=414472

[islander]

Sometimes you just can't. 2-2 scoring games are pretty common in voidstar against equal teams.

 

And the poster is complaining about getting 0 credits for the warzone, even though they put in the time, and got medals.

 

 

I was hoping these pvp changes would be in the patch today. I guess not.

 

Credits in warzones are negligible. In fact they are too low. Still, in the end its 50/50. Although I agree perhaps they should split the credits on tie, in the end, you are going to win 50% of ties as it is, so over time it will work itself out.

[nevva]

Today at 1:00 pm est

Server: Mind Trick

Civil War - zone started with republic- 3 players - Imps 8. All 3 of us went to one side - got rolled. 2 minutes later others are added - by this time its to late to win, they had the defensive position and was just farming us as we got off platform.

 

We tried - 0 valor, 0 commendation, 0 credit. just frustrating.

[islander]

Today at 1:00 pm est

Server: Mind Trick

Civil War - zone started with republic- 3 players - Imps 8. All 3 of us went to one side - got rolled. 2 minutes later others are added - by this time its to late to win, they had the defensive position and was just farming us as we got off platform.

 

We tried - 0 valor, 0 commendation, 0 credit. just frustrating.

 

Now this is messed up.

Why do they even let a team field 3. They shouldn't even pop you into a WZ unless you have 6, and even then, it should shut down if the other team has 8 for more then 60-75 seconds.

 

If I were in your shoes, I'd have bailed on the zone as soon as it started.

[Rabbitfoot]

First of all, rest assured we are keeping a close watch on the results of our reward changes to Warzones in 1.2 and we will continue to pull constant metrics to make sure they are going in the right direction as players get used to the new rules..

 

Theres lies, damn lies and statistics. - Mark Twain (or in this case 'Metrics').

[PhilthE]

1.2 PvP reward changes are TERRIBLE for the game and driving off the casual players which make up the majority (i.e. more then 50%) of the playerbase.

 

When the changes were announced I could not have been more happy. Incentives for winning, yes please! Incentives for winning fast, yes please! Changes to discourage afk'ers, yes please! Changes to discourage trolls, yes please!

 

I WAS massively excited.

 

Now that it has been released the sad sad sad truth has been exposed. If you solo queue for a warzone, do not troll, play your hardest, use chat to try and help coordinate with teammates, and do other positive things you still end up with 0 reward. Not less for losing but still trying hard... not less for being bad bu stillt doing your best... ZERO. 90% + matches are huttball. 90% + of the huttball has a premade team. Pre-made team vs. Pug = a loss 99% of the time... and 90% of the time it is a 6-0 loss in under 5 minutes netting 0 xp, 0 comms, 0 valor, 0 credits.

 

I applaud the design theories and intentions but the execution is terrible as it punishes anyone who solo queues regardless of how hard they try or how well they do in comparison to their own team. If the guild summit and subsequent interviews are any sign..."We are monitoring metrics" means the same thing as what Georg said at the guild summit.... "We are gathering metrics and spinning them in a similar fashion that good politicians do making the statistics LOOK favorable to our pre-determined opinion of how things should be whether the metrics actually mean that or not."

 

I can't blame Bioware for doing this... every business skews and miss-represents statistics to their own advantage and they should continue to do so in order to be successful or appear successful in their choices. Nobody wants to look wrong... especially when they ARE wrong... especially when money and jobs are on the line. I get it... I really do. The fact of the matter, however, is that Bioware is punishing every casual non group queue PvP'er because they want to weed out a few bad eggs that are afk'ing, trolling, or slacking in PvP.

 

Throwing out the baby with the bathwater comes to mind.

 

While I am certain some customer service reps and mods on these forums care about the players it is very obvious that the decision makers do not. At all. YOu would think they do... you would think it was in their best interests to... but ego is a funny thing. It makes very smart people defend and support horrible decisions because they don't want to look stupid or think their 'philosophy' is correct.

 

I applaud the intentions of rewarding better players.. I applaud the intention of harming trolls, bots, slackers, and afk'ers... but the way Bioware has chosen to do this is just straight out #^@&'ing anyone who solo queus... especially in huttball the most common WZ. I'm not going to cry about cancelling my sub or any such foolishness but PvP is no longer enjoyable for many. That makes the game less enjoyable for many. That makes many play the game less. That makes many try other games. Inevitably this causes many to lose interest or move on to the next game and inevitably stop giving Bioware their money.

 

Perhaps this is too much QQ mixed in with the hard truth... but the 1.2 PvP changes are as bad as Bioware lying for months about releasing ranked and then canceling it right before 1.2 released. Together... these facts are making me reevaluate my choice to support this game which I loved pre - 1.2. A sad state but there it is.

[SinnedQWERTY]

BigRedJedi mostly points out the issues as I also see em, but way better written then I could. Worth a read, http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=414472

 

I used to keep playing losing matches because it was worth it, I even saw some nice turn arounds. But my time is limited these days and I won't waste that much time for the current rewards. Even more so that premade's seem to be farming pugs more then ever.

 

They are all about skill and all ... but farming fresh 50's / pugs seems the way to prove it on our server.

 

I have actually stopped pvp'ing all together, so BW, this is your chance to dazzle me with PVE content in such a way I wont get bored before quiting all together. I'm not trying to be overly dramatic, I know I wont be missed by BW but I doubt Ill be the only one in the long run - and BW will care about that.

 

As I said, my time is limited these days and running through Alderaan one more time with alt number #X will push me to the edge of building a DeathStar myself ASAP and blowing it the hell up while singing "The hills are alive with the sound of music..."

[Terrimal]

Now this is messed up.

Why do they even let a team field 3. They shouldn't even pop you into a WZ unless you have 6, and even then, it should shut down if the other team has 8 for more then 60-75 seconds.

 

If I were in your shoes, I'd have bailed on the zone as soon as it started.

 

Warzones have been doing it since 1.2 went live it seems. I'm on Rakata Mind Prison, rep side - which is fairly low pop in relation to the imp side. Ive been in a number of matches on a few of my characters like this. My 50 at least can pump out enough damage to get some dps medals and occasionally kill medals in these situations, but going in at 20 when it's 3-7 in, Denova for example, is impossible to get enough medals to claim any worthwhile reward.

 

As for bailing... I probably would myself if half the time I wasn't waiting almost 20 minutes for the queue to pop.

[Bluestang]

Sorry, just in hopes devs actually read these posts I had to pile on. I am not going to repeat 90% of what people are saying because it has been said and I 100% agree about the inability to earn WZ coms. Contrary to what some people think, I play on the Imp side on my server and a lot of Rep's might find this amusing but, I get ganked and pwnd and put on teams that are 5-8 against some 4 man pre build Rep teams only to walk off game after game with nothing to show for it after 1.2. I just wanted whomever to know it hasn't just impacted just one side. I gained 50 recently and am STUCK with the recruit gear with little hope of getting better gear. PVP dailies have turned into weeklies, weeklies into monthlies, and my enjoyment of the game into frustration and anger. I find myself avoiding the game instead of looking foward to playing it. It is not reasonable to think people will keep paying for this. Who you won't hear complaints from? The pre-made geared out PVP guilds that are kicking everyone elses asses. Take a lesson from PVP games that have been around for decades. Merge your servers (at LEAST for PVP singles), don't put single players in with teams of 4 or more, and give us SOME reason to stick around a blowout, because I am finding it difficult to find a reason to stick around until next month. Edited April 17, 2012 by Bluestang

[Wugglesworth]

I'm glad that you are looking at this BW because this is intolerable. I know that the best way to go is not always so cut and dry and I sympathize with you having to juggle so many different factors but you need to get your act together because if you don't fix pvp I and a lot of others like me will have no reason to stick around.

[Heideggar]

hehe, they -did- flop pretty bad on letting us police people in our warzones. A vote to send a message if they're afk? No, we want them gone. We vote for them to be gone, not for them to have a chance to click on a button, or become anti-afk by your system's standards. If you didn't understand that from your early design perspective of the feature you're obviously out of touch with PvP in general, let alone what's going on in your game.

 

I should only need 50% of the group to boot someone.

 

 

btw Devs... have you ever thought about increasing people's stats and/or abilities if one side has fewer players than the other? Incease expertise, % to stats, reduction to timers, increased slow/root/stun effects, and things like this can temporarily replace a player so that when someone leaves the team isn't hosed?

 

btw Devs... have you ever thought about giving players a grace period if they lose connection from your game? Your own game has bugs that drops me from warzones sometimes, noteably huttball.

 

I keep getting this feeling Bioware has a novice, unanalytical, PvE'er working on this.

 

Also, your proposed fixes aren't enough. Not by a long shot. It's honestly best you revert back to pre 1.2 and spend another 6 months looking for someone to hire with PvP development experience. There is nothing in the 1.2 PvP changes that is an improvement.

 

It's really not difficult to improve the pre-1.2 PvP system. You don't employ me so I can't really give you much time to help. You're already using me as a beta-tester, which is insulting to say the least. But hey, I gave you 3 bones in this one post, and they're all known to work. You gave me a free month to play, which in all honest doesn't mean much considering it'll be a month of me not playing your game because the part of the game I enjoyed is hosed.

 

Also, patch 1.2 didn't fix the missing raid frame bug. You'll see 7 of 8 people in your group. We relogged everyone affected, and it still occurs. It's on Bioware's end. We put in tickets months ago.

[Timadan]

they should try juggling three balls instead of seven every time they add content to the game. Maybe just maybe they can catch one instead of dropping all seven.

 

I used to be in the camp that thought that given time they would get it right. I was wrong yet again.

[T-Assassin]

BW be f*ckin' up.

 

[DarthLodur]

Two things that really bug me about the system right now.

 

1) Being placed into an in progress losing game. I have been placed in a game 90% over where every other player on my team quit - so I zone in to be the only one on my team. This sucks. I get no rewards for a quick loss - no time to get any metals, and when done am at the back of the PVP queue when I requeue. Basically all I get out of that is losing my place in the queue. Not cool when PVP queues are slow. Please find a point in the WZ progress to lock the game to new / replacement players.

 

2) Starting game imbalances. We often start matches 6 vs 8. In some warzones this imbalance can make all the difference depending how long it lasts. Please look at your WZ starting procedures and find a way to keep it within X vs X (+-1).

[akenatoth]

To refresh everyone's memories, one of the most important aspects of the new changes is that your team's performance inside the Warzone has a direct impact on a portion of the rewards you are given at the end of the Warzone. Even if your team is losing, the closer you can make the game the better your rewards will be - so don't give up hope! Giving up and letting the other team 'win faster' is now the worst possible route you can take to rewards.

 

Mr Erickson, at first I clicked the "Report" button, since I thought u were just trolling.

Then I realized you really believe what you wrote.

 

Do you realize that most people plays with 7 other complete strangers and that they can't do nothing to keep them in the wz (since there is no debuff for leaving) ? People leave if things don't go the way they want in the first minute, then the wz is normally compromised.

 

Moreover, if you are so lucky to join a wz and end up filling a spot left by a quitter in a losing warzone, even if you're GOD or CHUCK NORRIS you'll hardly get what you deserve. It just keeps happening. I queue, I click enter and there's Civil War my team 90 other team 450.

 

Have some respect for the players time, they need to get something for their efforts even if they're so unlucky to end up playing with noobs and quitters.

 

If I can only play that much per day, I don't want to be punished because of "chance".

 

The players message was clear on PTS forum and it was ignored. The quicker you realize you have to change this the better.

 

Moreover, 8-players premades ARE NOT POSSIBLE, so there's no pug-free WZ!

 

Aken

[Kilnik]

These Warzones play more like an FPS. They are repetitive and boring, with no over-arching goal. If winning warzones actually advanced some war effort, tied in with open-world PvP...?

 

The stats in the queue window are weak. I want more numbers. What is my total valor? I don't know; every time I rank up, it resets. What's the point of Valor? I get a title. It's not enough incentive to continue.

[Canduril]

I wanted to add my voice to the chorus of displeasure at these changes.

 

Specifically this: Before when I was on the losing side of the deal I still felt as if I was making progress by getting something for my time and effort. Now that I play for ~10 minutes and often get little to nothing PvP is becoming tedious and frustrating.

 

I can get tedious and frustrating for free.