jmdatcs Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 The Secret World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space-Guerrilla Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 You're expecting an intelligent response to an unintelligible topic... I'd ride on a unicorn to White Castle with Neil Patrick Harris any day. Unicorns are gangsta. Witty remark... /youcandobetter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portichae Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Witty remark... /youcandobetter You should consider not prefacing your topics with "You should all agree with me because..." That's how a child or politician begins a discussion /youcandobetter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohpleasework Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure where I go from here...I'll let this sub get close to the end and then decide. What about you guys? What do you think? Are these just growing pains or signs of something much more severe? This isn't EA's first time around in the MMO genre (yes, although Bioware is the lead development studio there are plenty of EA staff contributing and making management decisions, as they do with all of their MMOs). So I wouldn't say it's growing pains. We're also about four months out in a game that spent years in development, so it's not like the environment is new to any of them. It appears to be a fundamental lack of proper testing prior to implementation into the live environment, mixed with a healthy dose of rushing things, and probably just plain bad management of the various development and/or infrastructure teams. On one hand this team has had some serious unexpected downs, even for updates that weren't very sophisticated or broad. On the other hand, unlike just about every other MMO publisher/maintainer, they typically conduct their extended maintenance periods during sensible hours in regards to their customers (I.E. unlike Blizzard, who takes down their servers once a week during an entire morning and most of the afternoon). It's refreshing to play a major MMO that does their maintenance in the middle of the night. So I think they clearly have some challenges internally. Edited April 13, 2012 by ohpleasework Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BebopX Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I was there for WoW vanilla. I'm well aware of growing pains, but things are clearly being mismanaged. Sorry, but you don't release a game early in order to make a Christmas deadline. Numerous bugs from Beta that were screamed about made it into release. You don't rush a Patch out on a Wednesday when your scheduled downtime is Tuesday. (Today happens when you do.) The MMO landscape has greatly changed, mainly due to Blizzard, and a certain level performance is required now. It is no longer 2004. Don't get me wrong, I think BW did a lot of things right with 1.2, but they should have been done 2 months ago. Not for my sake, but the community they were creating. If anything, they should have held back release till the could fix things before charging into treacherous waters (ie MMO gamers are the sharks.) The 30 days to level 50's was a clear sign that they are losing their max level player base due to neglect. Too many other games are coming out that could damage their player base. They need to act efficiently to maintain and continue to grow the community. Sadly, they have lost my trust for the moment. Hopefully they can regain it. The customizable UI and higher res character textures were a move in the right direction. Explosive Conflict is better scaled to the community it feeds and I have high hopes for Nightmare. BW/EA, you have bought yourself (with roughly 15 million dollars) only a short amount of time to save face and learn from this. The current downtime is nothing compared to the bigger picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melcus Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) You forget that EA owns BW now and i bet that many people of the old team that created once the company and delivered quality things are gone since a long time. Its just the brand that EA holds and uses to earn money. The SW theme and BW brand is a good way to realize this goals. Thats it. Not nice but how business works. Edited April 13, 2012 by Melcus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portichae Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 You forget that EA owns BW now and i bet a lot of the old team that created once the company and delivered quality things are gone since a long time. Its just the brand that EA holds and uses to earn money. The SW theme and BW brand is a good way to realize this goals. Thats it. Not nice but how business works. I don't want to believe this but after seeing the MassEffect3 ending I am just as skeptical of the licensing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilosoldier Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Before I go off on my rant here I would like to state that this is not a troll or QQ thread, and the trolls are expected to be kept at bay! Sure it is. It is a "QQ" thread. It is amazing the sense of entitlement that appears in the MMO community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermagnussen Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Sure it is. It is a "QQ" thread. It is amazing the sense of entitlement that appears in the MMO community. It is amazing the amount of mediocrity many in the community are willing to put up with. I think you are absolutely entitled to an opinion if you are paying for a product which has lots of competition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djhots Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) I am a Star Wars fanboy and a long time MMO player. I grew up during the original films and was very excited for the release of this game. I defended the game against friends, guildmates, and forum posters bent on trashing the game and BW. However, I cannot defend BW anymore. I enjoy the game very much and feel the sky is the limit, but I also know the lack of endgame in both pve and pvp has left many with a sour taste. Working in management of a consumer based company I know the dangers of providing a bad product and poor custmoer service to the customers. The lack of feedback during this latest beta testing lead to many players testing the patch on the PTS to quit testing. These forumns were filled with threads begging for a real response. Therefore, while the game is fun and I do think is will go on in one form or another, the real question for me is what are those in charge of this game thinking? The bottom line of course is profit, but even with that said a real salesman knows he cannot sell something that people will not come back and buy again. Therefore, I understand the OP's concern regarding the direction that devs and management teams have taken this game. I have real concerns moving forward about those in charge of the game. I have played many MMO's before this one and feel some of the issues that have dogged this game is poor management. I played wow since beta and while it had several problems early on, I never felt about Blizzard's dev or management teams the way I feel about Bioware's. That being said Blizz didn't get a real handle on their game until a full year after it's release and some would argue two. Thus, I will give BW the time I gave wow, but my excited optimism from December 20th has changed into a dread filled hope that all these warning signs are nothing more than growing pains. Edited April 13, 2012 by Djhots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BebopX Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Sure it is. It is a "QQ" thread. It is amazing the sense of entitlement that appears in the MMO community. Sorry people are utilizing their First Amendment right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoicraven Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Sorry people are utilizing their First Amendment right. do not apply to private corporations..............have a nice day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermagnussen Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 do not apply to private corporations..............have a nice day Um yes, corporations in the US do have to submit to our laws...BUT I get what you intended. You have the right to free speech, just not on a forum owned by someone else. We get that. But since these are CUSTOMER complaints, I would think Bioware would want to encourage feedback so they can improve their product. And if Bioware shut down these forums for complaints, they would just move to another venue....so pick your poison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space-Guerrilla Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Ultimately though, I think in this instance very few people will go to the extreme of leaving the game, because the game is a lot of fun and these problems, while very very annoying, are forgivable. I agree and hope you are right. This game is young and definitely needs more time to develop. I forgive like you (not that my forgiveness really matters!). My faith in a company to come to its full potential in a genre has been knocked down a peg though. The game is so young...just so many bad things in a row! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermagnussen Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Servers up all is forgiven... /bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotDonnaReed Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 You really need to put things in perspective. BioWare developed a game of epic proportions that has managed to please both Star Wars nerds and MMO fans, and 90% of the game was bug-free. If you've ever implemented a multi-million dollar software project, you'll understand this is quite an achievement. While BioWare has made quite a few missteps in terms of configuration management and customer relations, they're no better or worse than any other game developer. Pretty much every game I've ever played has had similar installation issues, bugs, and marketing snafus. What makes BioWare's situation different is the community. They pounce on every problem, real or imagined, and rip it to shreds in social media: Facebook, Twitter, blogs, forums. MBA programs across the country will probably use this as a case study for how NOT to market a product. Part of the blame goes to greed and hubris. Every game in the last five years has positioned itself as the WoW killer. They're all gunning for 2 million subscribers in the first year, which sets up unreasonable expectations for a perfect product. They would've been better off launching in November or January and skipping the media blitz. The game could've worked through its growing pains discreetly, and the player base would've grown at a more manageable pace. The only thing they can do now is damage control: merge the depopulated servers, offer character transfers, and rebuild the game's reputation. It's a great game. It's not a WoW-killer, but maybe in two or three years it could be. Everyone just needs to be patient. Also, people need to remember that they're only paying $15/month for this game. That's one trip to the cinema (counting concessions) or three venti lattes. I don't know where we all got the notion that our $15/month entitles us to unlimited, unmitigated joy in front of the computer screen and a seat on the board of directors. I'm not saying we don't have a right to offer constructive feedback, but I am saying we need to take a deep breath and calm down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 What a disaster these past couple days have been! SWTOR's 1.2 update has not rolled out very well. Can you do better? Honestly Folks, more aggravating then a day or so of patching is coming to the boards for information and finding yet another title wave of posts filled with conjecture, hyperbole, and plain ole misinformation. What we see here is normal. It has happened, and will continue to happen with every major game and every early content release. The amount of code involved is simply staggering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Sorry people are utilizing their First Amendment right. Horse hockey. Your first amendment right has nothing to do with posting on a private message board first of all. Second of all, this is a fine example of the typical hyperbole, and misinformation we see here so often. You assume that the first amendment covers what is being said here, so you attempt to promulgate that into law, very possibly without ever in your life reading the actual wording, just parroting what may or may have not been said before. Except for a very few well thought out and supported posts criticizing an aspect of the game, the entirety of the complaints that I read here boil down to little more then whining. Most have no idea what they are talking about. Heck, we had a guy with an "OMG the world is ending" post yesterday because he claimed that we cannot change quick bars from horizontal to vertical. He never even checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BebopX Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Wow, once a troll always a troll. This thread was a constructive criticism about a game we "ALL" play and a customers concern for its future. Not once did he slander someone else's opinion of which you did. I'm sorry my hyperbole retort so soured you, or that you are unable to constructively communicate your opinion with OP. It is very hypocritical of you to come here and "complain" about a "QQer." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandtrooper Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Like the fact that every headpiece makes me bald now? lol It's gettin' me down, too. But they have bigger fish to fry right now. Sand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space-Guerrilla Posted April 14, 2012 Author Share Posted April 14, 2012 Can you do better? Honestly Folks, more aggravating then a day or so of patching is coming to the boards for information and finding yet another title wave of posts filled with conjecture, hyperbole, and plain ole misinformation. What we see here is normal. It has happened, and will continue to happen with every major game and every early content release. The amount of code involved is simply staggering. Me personally? No, probably not. That's kind of a silly question though isn't it? I'm giving my thoughts and opinions of the current state of the game, and I enjoy reading others opinions. Also, "normal" MIGHT not be the correct word. Don't get me wrong I've seen things like this...just, maybe not on this scale! I've seen quite a bit to. I started with Anarchy Online nearly 8 years ago. Things there have been rough...to say the least. For example: A promised engine upgrade that is nearly 4 years in the making! You may not be able to relate to that but...I digress. Thank you for your input on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsx_two_four_one Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Honest questions, but why shouldn't we expect more? Just because every previous MMO has had major screw ups early on, all future MMO's must have them as well? Why should we always compare every MMO that launches with WoW's launch (that was almost a decade ago). Why is that the bar, not the present WoW, which is what SWTOR is actually competing against? I really don't get this mentality, as it implies you're resigned to accepting an inferior product, and let corporate America continually screw the consumer out of our hard earned income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Edge_Ender Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 When someone pretty much sets a standard in an industry, it's pretty hard to get away with anything below that bar. It's not like these guys at BW didn't do their homework. There are just key features that the mmo community comes to expect in a massive game like this; not to mention the fact that paying 15 bucks a month to play something is asking a lot. So if you ask me, make that 15 bucks worth it at the very least. I am only chuffed at the lack of attention to multiplayer PvE. Guys, at least make a way for us to talk to the whole galaxy when we search for party for group content. We STILL don't have a viable "looking for group" chat. Even if you don't plan on implimenting a group finder utility in the near future, AT LEAST make it easier for us to make groups of our own... Would it really be so hard to make a galaxy wide chat channel that pops up when we flag ourselves for LFG? Nearly every other mmo in history has a LFG channel. Wake up -- it's just common sense. There are other examples of ways this game has failed to live up to its own standards, but I will leave those complaints to better people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space-Guerrilla Posted April 14, 2012 Author Share Posted April 14, 2012 (edited) Guys, at least make a way for us to talk to the whole galaxy when we search for party for group content. We STILL don't have a viable "looking for group" chat. Even if you don't plan on implimenting a group finder utility in the near future, AT LEAST make it easier for us to make groups of our own... Couldn't agree with you more. This really needs to come with the next major patch. Edited April 14, 2012 by Space-Guerrilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabbra_cadabra Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Honest questions, but why shouldn't we expect more? Just because every previous MMO has had major screw ups early on, all future MMO's must have them as well? Why should we always compare every MMO that launches with WoW's launch (that was almost a decade ago). Why is that the bar, not the present WoW, which is what SWTOR is actually competing against? I really don't get this mentality, as it implies you're resigned to accepting an inferior product, and let corporate America continually screw the consumer out of our hard earned income. No one is saying every major MMO should come with major hiccups at the start. What they're saying is that it's foolish and naive to believe a particular game will run 100% fluid without any major setbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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