1.2 The Baffling patch

[Avorex]

I agree, the commendations you get for losing is a slap to the face.

That means on my server in which one side usually wins about 80% of the war-zones will be getting twice the commendations which means they will receive gear twice as fast and continue to pummel the losing faction into the ground.

I get rewarding a team that does extremely well or taking a few comms off a lazy team that just stands there but I don't think giving the losing team close to nothing even if they did alright is going to get a lot of positive feedback.

[DarkHelsing]

Good post, which means it will soon be locked, this is SWTOR Nazi world didn't you know...

 

Bioware needs to revert back to 1.1.5 and do a LOT more testing with 1.2 before pushing it out again!

Edited April 19, 2012 by DarkHelsing

[RogueSatyr]

50 new merc alt here. I hit 50 day before patch 1.2 ( I saved 1000 merc comms and wz comms doing 10-49s), bought full set of recruit gear and started queuing solo WZs. Week after the patch I'm 5/5 BM with few off pieces and that's only from doing dailies/weekly and WZs for 2-3 hours a day.

So no, I do not agree with people saying getting gear is harder and that the gear gap will be even bigger. If you pvp you will get your gear sooner or later.

 

And how many rofl /ragequit repub games did you get to get that gear???

 

Soon you will have nobody to play against.. GG

[MrXen]

Who am I:

50 Sentinel Full BM Valor rank 80, Ajunta Pall, Guild: Maven (So I don't have to listen to all the "just buy the recruit gear noob" or "If you can't find friends..." or "What ever personal attack because the person commenting is made of WIN and I am apparently not")

 

I'll start off and say I like this game and don't plan to unsub yet. But I'm growing ever more confused on bioware's direction for pvp. What's baffling is at release the majority of the press praised the game for how balanced the classes were and how long fights would last because they weren't bursty like another game they were accused of copping. People were mad about having a pvp stat but when they found out that it simply canceled it self out since the damage increase was offset by the damage reduction, people where fine with it. But soon found fault in a few things which is going to happen. Those were Ilum and queueing 50's with low levels that had little or no expertise. They fixed the 50's in WZ by bracketing them off and fixed Ilum somewhat. But now we see that they once again forgot anything they learned from before.

 

We have-

 

-People who are in full Champ or Centurion gear getting face rolled by people in full BM because they didn't get their expertise doubled like the rest of the gear. And anyone who can't afford the new recruit gear and rolling in their pve gear just being obliterated. Then on top of that the damage reduction doesn't cancel out the damage increase so you have everyone doing a flat 4% more damage to everyone else that are wearing full BM. So we went from what people praised to almost an exact copy of that other game.

 

-Now add to that the new gearing system. NO MOR BAAGGASSSZ! Lets have a party! "Hold up. Did i just do a complete WZ and got nothing? Did i just do 3 WZ and got 45 comms because we lost all 3 to a pre-made. Hold on, did i just use 5 medpacs in that last WZ we won but now have to spend all my winnings to buy 5 more?" I know you NEVAR use medpacs or just don't buy them or roll biochem. Oh and for those who do say that if your not biochem good luck living in pvp if your not a healer then again good luck even if you are. Oh and if you say go buy the recruite gear I'll just say "I hope you like doing PvE because it will be a long time before you save it through WZ"

 

So we have the new face of SWTOR pvp. Fast pace deathmatch style pvp. And a penalty system that perpetuates gear imbalance by making it near to impossible to catch up with the top geared players. I know we have people who love to face roll all the time because they need they have personal issues but that doesn't make fun game play. If my advantage over you or your advantage over me is simply gear then I'd rather not play. I don't mind having better gear or some one else having better gear as long as that advantage isn't continually perpetuated though the fact that if I don't win I'll never catch up.

 

Bioware, even out the damage reduction and increase so that in cancels itself out and fix the dang champ and centurion gear. Also, fix the reward system so that people can actually save comms or even get them in some cases.

 

They did. Before 1.2 damage reduction was outperforming damage bonus from expertise.

 

 

I can prove this mathematically with simple math, but this would be the 4th time I've tried to educate a forum warrior tonight and I just can't bring myself to do that. But know that damage increase and damage reduction = 0 net gain on expertise.

 

 

Also I am personally astounded at the number of apparent "professional game balancer's" that visit these forums with amazing knowledge on all aspects of the game and the grand scale of cause and reaction associated with drastic proposed changes. It appears my elementary math skills are needed more than ever to help these folk and their cause since they are obviously above working with silly percents.

Edited April 19, 2012 by MrXen

[RogueSatyr]

This is a really good thread.. I hope that the PVP design folks are reading this!

 

Who am I? I have a 50 BM geared Vanguard and a 50 Shadow, geared in BM/Champ. I play in a small guild of RL friends who are about 90% PVP focused. We're on Ajunta Pal (same server as OP) on the repub side. Given the social dynamics of the patch we're now losing 90% of games. (instant WZ deserters, growing gear gap, net % of games against imp pre-mades rising quickly, etc.)

 

Quotes from my vent server tonight (I really wanted to record them and youtube it.. but didn't have the tech at hand)

"Maybe they are playing Grinch? 'Hahaha, we took your fun PVP game away. MUHAHAHA'"

"I guess I got a name as a healer, so I get focused down and get no medals"

"I was having so much fun playing PVP in this game... now I just want to play alts"

"You have NO idea how hard it is to get medals as a healer! You! YOU click a focused target and guard and you get 3 medals.... I WORK MY *** OFF TO GET THAT!!!!!"

"Every game that Moretsu (pre-made that wins all of the games) wins is carrying 4 scrubs into WH gear.... How are we ever going to catch up?"

"I have no Fing idea what they were thinking when they took out the ilum dailies/weeklies??? They wrote a bunch of code to make the game ****** for the people who lose WZs?!?... Was that a goal of the design? Make the game **** for 1/2 of the people who play it? I used to go to ilum.. why would I ever go there ever again?"

"If this game didn't have the Star Wars IP it would be so F'ing dead"

 

On our server we've pretty much all agreed that we will PVP in the sub 50 bracket until this BS, broken patch is fixed..... IMO I don't know how you do it.... You've no path now that doesn't involve pissing off the people you've designed for in this patch (the winners)....

 

You've all now locked us to our servers with the legacy system..... How are you going to save the PVP game? Cause right now if you are on the losing side the only option is /reroll until you've seen all of the stories.. and then its /unsub?

 

 

 

Our Sage healer refuses to PVP on his main,

[vrgadin]

hmmm, have u seen how many comms bm gear is now??? its pathetically cheap, fresh 50 alt i rolled minute i turned 50 i had all recruit gear AND a bm piece already. i get 40 comms even when i lose soooo, yeh its ez

[RogueSatyr]

They did. Before 1.2 damage reduction was outperforming damage bonus from expertise.

 

I can prove this mathematically with simple math, but this would be the 4th time I've tried to educate a forum warrior tonight and I just can't bring myself to do that. But know that damage increase and damage reduction = 0 net gain on expertise.

 

Also I am personally astounded at the number of apparent "professional game balancer's" that visit these forums with amazing knowledge on all aspects of the game and the grand scale of cause and reaction associated with drastic proposed changes. It appears my elementary math skills are needed more than ever to help these folk and their cause since they are obviously above working with silly percents.

 

I'm shocked that you haven't already learned this truth... SO FYI, math doesn't matter **** all in user experience… This is some illusion that some CompSci or Math prof that influenced the PVP designer (and you) which has cursed us all with this terrible set of changes to the PVP game.

 

How people feel when playing the game MATTERS way more then MATH. What the healers are saying on my server is that "f Qing for the 50 game, I'm on my alt, I'm not going to queue anymore..."

 

Yes, the math might say that it all works out.. but the user experience for the healers is "ROFL, I'm re-roll someone who can get 4 tank medals in 2 clicks"

 

.... they tried to fix something that wasn't broken really... I went from a 5 hour a day habit to a … "eh, might as well roll an alt..."

[RogueSatyr]

hmmm, have u seen how many comms bm gear is now??? its pathetically cheap, fresh 50 alt i rolled minute i turned 50 i had all recruit gear AND a bm piece already. i get 40 comms even when i lose soooo, yeh its ez

 

and what pre-made carried you to your gear? Cause at 30 to ZERO coms a game it's a long road....

[Selai]

There are definitely strange directions being taken by BW in this patch but I do think it's time to dispel the myth that there will be a widening of the gap between people with gear and those that don't.

 

1. Most people that do reach 50 that intend on PVPing have some credits or the means to get those credits. Let's be honest, completing all the belsavis dailies alone net enough to buy 2 pieces of recruit gear. That's not small change and it's not unreasonable costs either.

 

2. In case people aren't aware, the PVP dailies and weeklies yield WZ comms. Surprisingly, they yield enough that it's probably FASTER than it has ever been to get BM gear when comparing how many comms you needed to get a single BM commendation pre 1.2.

 

3. No valour Req on BM gear. So basically, if I know I'm going to PVP at 50, I can easily earn the credits, get Recruit gear and then immediately start completing dailies for WZ comms to get BM gear. If you complete your dailies each day, that's a BM chest piece in the first week of starting to PVP at 50.

 

So basically, I'm calling Bull on all the crying about the growing equipment stats gap people are talking about. Simply doing ANY WZ's will get you BM gear, even if you lose every single time and eventually you will get your set.

 

Biggest problem with your post is...

1. I'm a pvp'er... I don't want to do PVE dailies so I can PVP. That is stupid. How would PVE'ers like to do hours of PVP a day just so they can PVE? PVP in general should provide income similar to PVE content in my opinion.

 

2. It is much faster to get BM gear, but the stat gap is huge, and having a fresh 50, vs BM/warhero 50 is painful. You are completely useless most of the time and typically just get face-rolled. You pvp to have fun. No matter who you are, dieing over and over again for a week or more (depending on if you work or live in your moms basement), until you start to get equivalent gear, is not fun. They stretched things a bit too much.

[PutinDoesJudo]

I don't want to have people rewarded for being in PVE gear, or being poor sods who can't even afford recruit gear.

 

Don't even pretend like you can't sell your rag DNA samples for 4k+ a piece. Not to mention the crazy AH money making potentials right now. You have no reason to be in POS cent or champ gear.

Edited April 19, 2012 by PutinDoesJudo

[Selai]

I don't want to have people rewarded for being in PVE gear, or being poor sods who can't even afford recruit gear.

 

Don't even pretend like you can't sell your rag DNA samples for 4k+ a piece. Not to mention the crazy AH money making potentials right now. You have no reason to be in POS cent or champ gear.

 

I get on maybe get 3-4 hours to play on a good day, typically 1-3 hours. I like to pvp, so I pvp, leaves me little time for money farming in between, and they're are many like people that. Just because you can spend hours farming mats, and crafting, and doing PVE dailies, doesn't mean the entire PVP population, has the time, nor PVE desire to.

[Niil]

I get on maybe get 3-4 hours to play on a good day, typically 1-3 hours. I like to pvp, so I pvp, leaves me little time for money farming in between, and they're are many like people that. Just because you can spend hours farming mats, and crafting, and doing PVE dailies, doesn't mean the entire PVP population, has the time, nor PVE desire to.

 

Granted I get what you're saying, but what raider loves to do dailies? Really? I'd be willing to bet most people do dailies because they don't have anything else to do since they need to have 7+ other people to raid and/or we're locked out once we do it so we can't do it again until the weekly reset. PvP is a different ballgame. You want to pvp, pvp. You want to group pvp, get a group and group pvp. 24/7 if you want. I absolutely hate doing dailies. I refused to do them until this patch. The only reason I started doing them is because I want a miralian operative. As soon as I have that, I'll never look at them again.

[FireSomething]

Learn your classes there is no tank merc its a powertech which was not hurt in any way in 1.2

 

Learn to read. I was saying that a Comm/Merc healer with a tank was next to impossible to kill. Funny you didn't actually say anything about the content of what I've posted in the thread.

 

It's actually kind of funny that people that considered themselves "skilled" don't think that they could overcome a 10% differential in damage dealt/received which is what occurs when someone in the recruit set that costs about two rounds of dailies worth of credits faces some one in full war hero gear. Perhaps the difference between the players is actually class familiarity and skill in addition to the gear.

 

Also I'm not sure why everyone is crying stat inflation already since the new tier of gear has roughly a 2-3% stat increase over previous gears with the obvious exception of expertise.