Guild Minimum Age Req

[mousestalker]

On a side note, anyone who relies on what they have read on a gaming forum for legal advice is asking for trouble. Always, always, always take such information with a grain of salt.

 

The same probably applies to medical advice as well.

[Momerath]

I happened upon this thread in the search of a mature 30+ guild to join. Republic side. On the Maw. Since the conversation seems to have run its course I figured I'd hijack it ;-) If I'm jumping in too early I apologize.

 

I'd be willing to reroll and hop servers if any of you old fogies already in guilds are looking for members. Having a hard time even finding pugs on the Maw for FP's and Heroics and such. You can PM me if you like. Thanks!

[Esproc]

I happened upon this thread in the search of a mature 30+ guild to join. Republic side. On the Maw. Since the conversation seems to have run its course I figured I'd hijack it ;-) If I'm jumping in too early I apologize.

 

I'd be willing to reroll and hop servers if any of you old fogies already in guilds are looking for members. Having a hard time even finding pugs on the Maw for FP's and Heroics and such. You can PM me if you like. Thanks!

 

I checked one guild spot I looked at, but it is 40+ guild, and I have rolled the idea of creating some toons there as well (Old Fogie that I am ) sorry.

 

On a different not, although all guilds are not listed, there is a spot to go to that may help you in your quest.

 

It is on page 5 or 6, but I took the liberty to cut out a section for you, and others, to help in you search.

 

The Ideal Guild Quiz is back and better than ever!!

 

You can take the quiz here: http://www.tortoolbox.com/quiz/

 

I hope that this helps. Only guilds that have listed themselves are in its choice of selection.

 

The actual title for the thread should be "The Ultimate Guild Quiz".

 

Happy Hunting

Edited April 14, 2012 by Esproc

[ciociosan]

 

If a minor obtains a fake ID and uses it to purchase age-specific substances, the business owner is not liable for the result. The guardians' inability to control their child is entirely to blame.

 

 

The business can be and sometimes is sued for this in civil court, as well as potentially losing their liquor license or FFL (alcohol and guns being the two age-specific substances that came to mind.) The business owner can also be sued for any damages that result from the use of said age-specific substance. I know it happens, and happens often. So this statement, fact-checking with your attorney friend notwithstanding, is not true.

[sheheradze]

As a parent I wouldn't want my child in any mmo unsupervised until at least 16 and then only if they were involved with people I knew and trusted. Even at 18 you're only an adult in numbers and you have a LOT of growing up time to do.

 

I prefer age restricted guilds myself as I find that this is my escape time and I don't want to have to worry that I'm corrupting or upsetting someones child, much less have to deal with the inevitable temper tantrum that always comes with most players under 21. Nor do I want to find myself standing in as parent when 'yours' fail to notice your behavior or the fact that you're on line at omg-o'clock.

 

You have a valid point OP but you're going to find that most people really don't feel comfortable with the restrictions that playing with younger gamers puts on us. An example, when Second Life merged the Teen Grid with the 'Regular' grid. They put safeguards in place to keep younger users out of some areas and this failed horribly. You find, should you log in there that now you are not at all comfortable with an adult RP situation unless you see a valid photo id first. Now not all servers are RP, and not all people do things of a sexual nature in mmos, but even causal flirting becomes creepy when you could be the parent/grandparent of the person you find yourself talking to.

 

Also as a parent, where ARE the parents of most of these kids, I have a schedule that lets me play late in to the night and early morning and I can name at least 5 under 20 who are still in school and are still on at 3am or later on school nights.

 

I'm 39 and my generation was supposedly raised by television, gods helps us all if this generation is raised by computers and the internet. Granted it would explain a lot of the behavior I've seen in all the ones I've played. ( The Realm (bet no one remembers that one) to UO to DAOC to COH/COV to WOW to EQ II and back to WOW, so I've seen a lot of younger players and I've seen a lot of why people want age restricted guilds. Yes, it's exclusionary and may seem unfair but guess what darlin, life isn't fair.

 

You are way overprotective, I'm 16 and I've been playing MMO's since 2005, starting from WoW to Lotro, my parents didn't really pay attention to what I played and did It negatively affect me ? No it didn't, it did the opposite. I met new people from different countries and cultures, I also improved my english (Live in Sweden) Hell I could even say that MMO's have helped me mature more than other people in my age.

 

And also, I've been reading the reasons on why you want to have age requirements, and excuse me but they are kinda silly. One of the reasons that bothered me was the cussing issue, seriously, cussing doesn't affect ''kids'' as you call us, as much as you think it does.

Edited April 17, 2012 by sheheradze

[Avinshara]

But the responses of the Adult community, while understandable, are not all the fair in my opinion.

Here is an example of the wisdom that experience brings: you seem not to understand the arbitrary nature of the beast. Put simply, you want 'fairness' where no such thing exists: people are free to decide the criteria for guild membership any way they choose, and no amount of argumentation will change that.

 

You are correct when you say that an age limit does not fulfill its purpose very well- there certainly are many immature and undesirable players at every age level: some of the "older" gamers you meet are just as cliquish, selfish, and hypocritical as the younger players they wish to avoid.

 

So certainly, an age limit does not ensure mature players, but it is a useful tool for weeding out many immature types.

 

I dislike complaining as well, so just so everyone knows, this thread was created purely for responses from the 18+ community on my opinions and thoughts. I would love to hear constructive feedback on my predicament and whatever else comes to mind.

As for advice, I can only say that I think you would be much better off if you focus on being a mature player instead of posting about what you think is 'unfair'.

 

In my opinion, you're much more likely to win over friends and supporters through mature in-game behavior than through a forum post.

 

You are way overprotective, I'm 16...

Since you're learning English, you should know that it is important to preface such remarks with a qualifier such as "In my opinion" or "I think." This is especially important because 16 year-olds rarely have an idea of what 'overprotective' is.

 

And also, I've been reading the reasons on why you want to have age requirements, and excuse me but they are kinda silly.

Again, this is a matter of opinion, and requires explanation (how are they "silly"?) if you want to be taken seriously.

[Feran_Feitwo]

That's a legitimate reason. However, could there be an alternative to filtering that way? Why not in the guild application, just give a warning that the conversations that may or may not occur could contain adult language?

 

Just as an example, children choose to watch TV-MA shows (South Park, Tosh.0, etc). They can't blame the show for ruining their innocence, it was their choice to watch it. The simple fact that there was a warning about it (even in fine print- it wouldn't matter) would protect if not justify the adults responsible for the content.

 

Yes, I realize that for many people, it just isn't acceptable no matter what the circumstances to do something you consider to be unethical.

 

So I have one question. What difference is there between a 17 year old with under 2 months to go till 18, and 18 itself? (keeping in mind that the 18 years of age= adult law does not exist world-wide).

 

This is America, and what makes sense is mostly thrown out the window. This is why you can sue McDonald's for serving you hot coffee (how dare they), or sue your co-worker for sexual harrassment for complimenting your outfit. For the longest time, companies have forgotten about the profanity filter built into the game, and still hand out temporary and permanent bans for profanity. The excuse? "Just because it's there doesn't mean you get to abuse it."

[sheheradze]

Here is an example of the wisdom that experience brings: you seem not to understand the arbitrary nature of the beast. Put simply, you want 'fairness' where no such thing exists: people are free to decide the criteria for guild membership any way they choose, and no amount of argumentation will change that.

 

You are correct when you say that an age limit does not fulfill its purpose very well- there certainly are many immature and undesirable players at every age level: some of the "older" gamers you meet are just as cliquish, selfish, and hypocritical as the younger players they wish to avoid.

 

So certainly, an age limit does not ensure mature players, but it is a useful tool for weeding out many immature types.

 

 

As for advice, I can only say that I think you would be much better off if you focus on being a mature player instead of posting about what you think is 'unfair'.

 

In my opinion, you're much more likely to win over friends and supporters through mature in-game behavior than through a forum post.

 

 

Since you're learning English, you should know that it is important to preface such remarks with a qualifier such as "In my opinion" or "I think." This is especially important because 16 year-olds rarely have an idea of what 'overprotective' is.

 

 

Again, this is a matter of opinion, and requires explanation (how are they "silly"?) if you want to be taken seriously.

 

You're treating me like a five year old, also I explained why I thought It was silly if you bothered to pay attention to my post.

 

And also, where did I state that I was learning English ? I merely stated that It had improved my english 6-7 years ago.

Edited April 15, 2012 by sheheradze

[ProKsnNwk]

Hey.

I'm also 17 years old, I joined a guild which had a age req. 18+, but I'm from a country in which your an adult fro 16 years old... So when I said that, they said it's ok. and invited me to their guild.

[grfu]

In a way, we're all learning English, as it is an ever-evolving cesspool of a language.

 

Back on topic.

 

The age restriction is there for a reason. It is to protect the older guild members from potential legal ramifications. In my guild, we do discuss topics that are considered inappropriate for people under the age of 18, in vent and in guild chat, especially when we all get drunk and play. Make no mistake, it's not to protect you. It's to protect us.

[sheheradze]

In a way, we're all learning English, as it is an ever-evolving cesspool of a language.

 

Back on topic.

 

The age restriction is there for a reason. It is to protect the older guild members from potential legal ramifications. In my guild, we do discuss topics that are considered inappropriate for people under the age of 18, in vent and in guild chat, especially when we all get drunk and play. Make no mistake, it's not to protect you. It's to protect us.

 

What kind of legal ramifications are we talking about, you can't hardly go to jail for cussing infront of a minor can you ?

[JPLaro]

I agree, I am 70 and still not mature at all lawwww

[mousestalker]

What kind of legal ramifications are we talking about, you can't hardly go to jail for cussing infront of a minor can you ?

 

Potentially yes, depending upon the country. There are players from both Americas, Europe, the Middle East, Asia and Oceania. There may even be players from Antarctica.

 

In some countries nudity is perfectly acceptable. In others it is not. In some countries casual profanity is routine. In other casual blasphemy is acceptable. In others one, the other or both may be illegal. Attitudes towards acceptable levels of violence are equally diverse.

 

Your customs and mores are not those of the rest of the world.

[Kabjat]

I am positive there HAS to be a progressive, FAMILY ORIENTED guild on your server. What I mean by that is this: if they are family friendly, then they won't care how old you are and are likely a safe environment for children. Not that you are a child, but you get my meaning.

 

My point is, there is a large population of adults who play with their teenage kids in this game and I am struggling to understand your dilemma. Unless you really don't WISH to join a family friendly guild?

 

If I were your mother, I would be thankful for the diligence of the guilds who reject you. You don't belong there and furthermore, there are better alternatives for someone who is underage.

[Kabjat]

According to your 4th reason, you also believe there are exceptions to the age directly influencing maturity generalization. Why restrict the few people who are mature from joining because of the silliness of their peers?

 

As an extreme example, that's akin to convicting an entire group of people for a crime that one member committed; because as similar beings, they're potentially going to commit it as well.

 

I'm sorry, sir, but no matter how cleverly you break the mold in terms of maturity, if your driver's license says you are too young for that six pack of Mike's Hard Lemonade then you aren't going to be walking out of the convenience store with it.

 

I suspect that you will not see a connection with my example and yours, but I maintain hope.

[Avinshara]

You're treating me like a five year old, also I explained why I thought It was silly if you bothered to pay attention to my post.

 

And also, where did I state that I was learning English ? I merely stated that It had improved my english 6-7 years ago.

 

To be honest, I was being polite. It sounded much better than simply to say "you're wrong, and not old enough to understand why."

 

Here's an example of something you fail to understand:

In some countries casual profanity is routine. In other casual blasphemy is acceptable. In others one, the other or both may be illegal. Attitudes towards acceptable levels of violence are equally diverse.

 

Your customs and mores are not those of the rest of the world.

Put simply, responsible adults know better than to expose children (which you still are) to questionable practices- it's not silly, it's common sense.

 

The bottom line is that regardless of how well you can rationalize and argue, people will rightly view your age as a barrier to participation.

 

Sorry if you feel this is unfair, but I suggest that rather and try to persuade people that you are more mature than others your age, you simply act that way, and some more perceptive individuals may make an exception for you.

[ellrochell]

my guild is 16+ plus, every time I seem to play the majority of under 18's they just seem to act like noobs always asking question after question.

[ellrochell]

and its under 16 because I'm part of a clan that has all there games set to 16.

[Hangingbrain]

I do not like playing with kids. Kids are exactly that, kids. From my experience, the childish attitude comes out the second something does not go their way. Being behind a monitor, kids and adults alike, think they have the right to type and say whatever they wish to. What if you were on the street and insulted someone or called them an idiot or whatever? You may get a beating or at the very least put in your place. Kids are immature brats for the most part and playing a game with them is not my cup of tea at all. In all honesty, parents are the ones to blame. Most are working too much, and not there for the child. They sit them down in the chair, to play or watch tv and them dont pay them no mind. Kids these days are left to do whatever it is they want to do, I see it everyday. Im 38 and my mother owns a daycare. I get to hear of the way kids act nowadays and its terrible.

 

So, I am sorry, if you feel most people do not want to play with children. You may be the one in the crowd that is different, but years of bad apples will not help you. I am all for age restrictions, not just on guilds but the game itself.

 

Quantumn

Edited April 16, 2012 by Hangingbrain

[vertibird]

I am all for age restrictions, not just on guilds but the game itself.

 

Quantumn

 

I think its pretty sad and selfish that you would want under 18's blocked from this game because you generalise them all to being immature and snotty nosed brats. You were a kid once before you know.I doubt if you were (lets say 16) right now you would be supporting this.If you want to stop people playing who are under the actual ESRB/PEGI rating then fine

 

 

But my opinion on the whole Guild age restriction is that if they don't want to put an age limit there then that's up to them i completely understand if its because they want to talk about topics and other things that are not for under 18's. But if the age limit is there because they think that every one of them out there are immature then that's not the best of reasons. If someone acts like an idiot just kick them simple

Edited April 16, 2012 by vertibird

[MORTTUUM]

...at this point, lying about my age is just what I'm used to...

 

I have no problem behaving like a mature adult...

 

Those two statements are contradictory, and a big part of why, if I were inclined to join a Guild made up of people I didn't know IRL, I'd want a 30-years+ Guild.

 

What it really comes down to, however, is freedom of choice. There are lots of guilds to join. If one of them is, say, 30+, then that's the choice of the founder/officers, and no-one has a right to dispute it; find another Guild to join.

 

My Guild (which is out-of-game, as it were) requires that you work at the same place we all do. If you don't work here (which legally means 21+), You can't "join" if you don't work here, period (although if someone quit working here they probably wouldn't be booted from the "guild" after the fact...).

Edited April 16, 2012 by MORTTUUM

[JohnnyD_]

This whole thing with "legal ramifications" just sounds silly to me. I'd love to see any kind of proof that a person was convicted of a crime for using "naughty" words or drinking alcohol while an underaged person was in the channel. I didn't spend long searching, but I didn't even see anything about it being illegal to glorify alcohol usage to a minor.

 

We invite anyone that truly wants to join our guild (not people just looking for a random guild.) Age has never mattered, and has only been a problem once or twice with raiding, as one of our members had a bed time. We replaced him, he stayed in the guild, problem solved. We never watch our language, subjects, or what we consume because if a person fits in with the group and how we interact, their age is irrelivant.

 

It's not my responsibility, nor any leader's responsibility, to act as the underage person's parent. If the parent doesn't want their child in that environment, it's their responsibility to remove them from it.

 

The other major argument, age and maturity being linked, is immediately shot out of the water because it's impossible to judge a person's maturity level based on the day they were born. It's just as absurd as assuming character traits based on race.