Mar/Sents

[pwnshoppe]

You sir are a dishonest ****

 

maybe its hard to decide which defensive cooldown to use?

 

I usually start with 25% damage red then move to 50% dodge/parry. If they arent dead yet ill take a few hits then pop 99% damage reduction. Still not dead, warzone medpack + 25% damage reduction again. They are definately dead by now, if not force camo, wait for heal and repeat all over

 

not really hard. The dps aspects are even easier.

[Narfirill]

I was tempted to say sent/mars need nerf.

Well now i think they don't.

Their class just receive an overhaul that make it easier to play. Yea im quite frustrated about them going around nuking people (im one of their favorite target playing a sniper) but truth is their damage is big but still i parameters.

To those that say l2p and stun/KB/mez/avoid i have to say there is not so many abilities in one class to interrupt all your devastating attacks.... but still those attacks are not the real problem.

Observing how mars/sents attacking in wz i saw pre 1.2 that they were trying to single out targets, scouting around and looking for a cut off one.

Now they just attack anybody . Most of the time i have less than 50% guys jumping on me, or some skilled ones on groups of 2-3 players and killing one or 2 easy before either killed or stealth and run.

My personal conclusion is that they are to durable... their survivability was boosted way to much when all others with the def decrease from expertise went down.

I think now they are one of the most well build classes with well laid out trees and BW should do the same job to all other classes.

till then just make them bit more vulnerable.

[broganthomas]

I was tempted to say sent/mars need nerf.

Well now i think they don't.

Their class just receive an overhaul that make it easier to play. Yea im quite frustrated about them going around nuking people (im one of their favorite target playing a sniper) but truth is their damage is big but still i parameters.

To those that say l2p and stun/KB/mez/avoid i have to say there is not so many abilities in one class to interrupt all your devastating attacks.... but still those attacks are not the real problem.

Observing how mars/sents attacking in wz i saw pre 1.2 that they were trying to single out targets, scouting around and looking for a cut off one.

Now they just attack anybody . Most of the time i have less than 50% guys jumping on me, or some skilled ones on groups of 2-3 players and killing one or 2 easy before either killed or stealth and run.

My personal conclusion is that they are to durable... their survivability was boosted way to much when all others with the def decrease from expertise went down.

I think now they are one of the most well build classes with well laid out trees and BW should do the same job to all other classes.

till then just make them bit more vulnerable.

 

So instead of nerfing one class to put them inline with other classes, you want BW to redesign all the other classes to put them on par? Good luck with that.

[Dacer]

I rolled a sage from day one of early access and have played it in pvp since the second day of that access. If you would care to explain how a sage tools completley counter a maras I'm all ears. Resolve kicks in far quicker using sage cc on a mara to make it effective, you have two froms of cc unless you spec deep into balance and use sever force (resolve free), but even that is not enough now, you do that you run into force depletion issues, thats the biggest issue with heavy balance builds.

 

That leaves you with hybrid options, and then only decent root is one on the knockback, which is actually a mezz and breaks on damage, or the stun from when the shield breaks. Neither are that effective.

 

When are sorc/sage supposed to use their "amazing cc" (which in fact is one instant mezz for 60 seconds if specced for, a 4 seconds stun, a knock back with a mez effect, or sever force root). As you say stupid sorc fill the resolve bar, well my friend "stupid sorc" dont have much choice if they are trying to keep you off them, they will inevitably use some cc or some form of "uber utility" that simply breaks when its hit by another douchebag on your team who is also probably filling the maras resolve bar. So yes unless the mara is incredibly stupid you are not kiting anything to a decent standard, and are usually worm food for a competent player using that ac.

 

I see what you are saying to a point, but you are sort of missing what many maras are saying about combating us.

 

You have to use your knockbacks and CC intelligently. Dont do it right away at the open of a fight( tho if a warrior jumps to you in huttball on a ramp obviously you are going to KB) - or painic and try and spam them all at us.

 

When you start to see the ravage animation - knockback/mezz/stun whatever you can use.

-----

[Dacer]

maybe its hard to decide which defensive cooldown to use?

 

I usually start with 25% damage red then move to 50% dodge/parry. If they arent dead yet ill take a few hits then pop 99% damage reduction. Still not dead, warzone medpack + 25% damage reduction again. They are definately dead by now, if not force camo, wait for heal and repeat all over

 

not really hard. The dps aspects are even easier.

 

yea - good try.

 

you don't even know what you are saying. First if you really did play the class that well and have a 50 mara you would know cloak of pain is 20% not 25% ( its a small thing to pick at but someone who as lvled a mara and supposedly pvps with one would know.

[Serrowherrow]

So instead of nerfing one class to put them inline with other classes, you want BW to redesign all the other classes to put them on par? Good luck with that.

 

Have to look at things both ways.

 

Which is better? Nerfing all classes repeatedly in an attempt to get a sense of balance, or trying to buff each one so all classes are within an effectively interchangeable range of each other?

 

I prefer the latter, considering the former has already been shown to **** things up severely. 1.2 attempted the Philosophy of 'nerf down' rather than 'buff up' and look where that brought us.

[Narfirill]

no if you read what i say you will find that i propose a nerf to their durability not their dps...

i would like BW to redesign the other classes not to make them more powerful, as mara/sents are now but as sollid, comprehensive and user friendly as they are now

[SinnedWill]

no if you read what i say you will find that i propose a nerf to their durability not their dps...

i would like BW to redesign the other classes not to make them more powerful, as mara/sents are now but as sollid, comprehensive and user friendly as they are now

 

In all honesty they don't have that much durability. 5s bubble (90s cooldown) might let them stim (and if they're Annihilation specced, maybe regain an additional 16% health) so that alone doesn't help since most classes can deal 30% of a maras HP with a burst cycle in 4-6s. Cloak of Pain is the primary defensive CD, but maras are still squishier than heavy armor wearers and tankassins/shadows with it up (against energy/kinetic damage). Saber Ward lasts 12s (3m cooldown) and is employed situationally. Yes, maras/sents are tough to kill for a brief window of duration if they can use all 3 defensive cooldowns, but once they're gone, the marauder is squishy and their only true means of survival actually comes from killing quickly. Furthermore, you can usually kill them outright if you don't fill their resolve and save your stun for when they're at ~35% health - this gives enough time to burst them down to death. If a Mara/Sent DOES get their bubble up or happens to pop cloak of pain + sabre ward, simply use a stun followed by a mez or a long root if you have one (stun alone is sufficient in forcing cloak of pain to burn off if noone hits them and they don't stun-break). Stun time or long roots cause the bubble to go wasted. Recognizing a marauder's spec + buffs are vital to make ANY class more successful against marauders. Hell, I'm yet to lose to a marauder/sentinel of any spec in a proper 1v1 as a Sorcerer (which happens to be the easiest class for maras/sents to kill).

[Bloodtau]

Played correctly, pt will outdps/burst a sent/mara. Learn to cc during damage reducton.

 

complete BS. stop making false rumours.

[celebrei]

Have to look at things both ways.

 

Which is better? Nerfing all classes repeatedly in an attempt to get a sense of balance, or trying to buff each one so all classes are within an effectively interchangeable range of each other?

 

I prefer the latter, considering the former has already been shown to **** things up severely. 1.2 attempted the Philosophy of 'nerf down' rather than 'buff up' and look where that brought us.

 

So to buff up would mean that procs like wrath+cl for sorcs be returned, it would then appear that the devs will be shooting themselves on the foot when that happens for it would be an indirect admission to their lapse in judgment to nerf the other classes, no, it is not a retraction that's needed, it is a nerf for the marauder/sentinel class that is the only logical step.

[Moosestick]

complete BS. stop making false rumours.

 

1: get pvp gear

2: stop being bad

[mightycount]

Ravage does like 10k dmg now. It's op as ****. But yeah it won't one shot you, but it comes damn close if you stand in it.

 

No, no, it does 20k damage at least! No, 35k damage even!!1!!!

 

Come on, get real. The nominal value with full BM and some WH gear is 4k-5k ENERGY damage. Considering the fact that armor plus mitigation are generally more effective than attack buffs, it's very hard to exceed 5k.

[Odahviin]

complete BS. stop making false rumours.

 

PT burst is massive atm, i think it is you who is making false rumours

 

see what i did there?

[Odahviin]

No, no, it does 20k damage at least! No, 35k damage even!!1!!!

 

Come on, get real. The nominal value with full BM and some WH gear is 4k-5k ENERGY damage. Considering the fact that armor plus mitigation are generally more effective than attack buffs, it's very hard to exceed 5k.

 

Wrong, wrong, wrong. A friend of a friend of a friend of a monkey told me Ravage does 50k damage no matter what gear / spec / and thru heals.

 

I mean that monkey really knows his stuff he and all his friends are on here every day posting interesting tidbits like what my mate told me.

 

Hey I like monkeys, but seriously it's getting out of hand.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Odahviin

[Narfirill]

In all honesty they don't have that much durability. 5s bubble (90s cooldown) might let them stim (and if they're Annihilation specced, maybe regain an additional 16% health) so that alone doesn't help since most classes can deal 30% of a maras HP with a burst cycle in 4-6s. Cloak of Pain is the primary defensive CD, but maras are still squishier than heavy armor wearers and tankassins/shadows with it up (against energy/kinetic damage). Saber Ward lasts 12s (3m cooldown) and is employed situationally. Yes, maras/sents are tough to kill for a brief window of duration if they can use all 3 defensive cooldowns, but once they're gone, the marauder is squishy and their only true means of survival actually comes from killing quickly. Furthermore, you can usually kill them outright if you don't fill their resolve and save your stun for when they're at ~35% health - this gives enough time to burst them down to death. If a Mara/Sent DOES get their bubble up or happens to pop cloak of pain + sabre ward, simply use a stun followed by a mez or a long root if you have one (stun alone is sufficient in forcing cloak of pain to burn off if noone hits them and they don't stun-break). Stun time or long roots cause the bubble to go wasted. Recognizing a marauder's spec + buffs are vital to make ANY class more successful against marauders. Hell, I'm yet to lose to a marauder/sentinel of any spec in a proper 1v1 as a Sorcerer (which happens to be the easiest class for maras/sents to kill).

 

well i primarily play MM sniper (yea i know I'm a sadist /masochist) and their shields are devastating my attacks and last too long. its a personal view as i said. now of coarse every one will kill anyone if his defencive cool downs are gone. So i think if you come back and read your post will agree with me. they are dps and should dps as one but their durability is of the charts because i they are to good and too long .... see the ones of a sniper which suppose to be the range mirror. we just bust our mitigation not avoid attacks all together or throw damage done, by any attack, out of the window juts because. imagine a sniper with such defence cool downs ... cheat personified.

[Odahviin]

well i primarily play MM sniper (yea i know I'm a sadist /masochist) and their shields are devastating my attacks and last too long. its a personal view as i said. now of coarse every one will kill anyone if his defencive cool downs are gone. So i think if you come back and read your post will agree with me. they are dps and should dps as one but their durability is of the charts because i they are to good and too long .... see the ones of a sniper which suppose to be the range mirror. we just bust our mitigation not avoid attacks all together or throw damage done, by any attack, out of the window juts because. imagine a sniper with such defence cool downs ... cheat personified.

 

hahahha your complaining about mara / sent shields?

 

your basic talent cover give you amazing damage reduction and if you spec into entrench more so.

 

and i'm pretty sure your cover isn't on a cooldown.

 

snipers rip mara / sents to shreds if played correctly. You have the same access to tools with shatter shot now that the melee have.

 

I would suggest a healthy dose of situational awareness would improve your game.

[Guioki]

hahahha your complaining about mara / sent shields?

 

your basic talent cover give you amazing damage reduction and if you spec into entrench more so.

 

and i'm pretty sure your cover isn't on a cooldown.

 

snipers rip mara / sents to shreds if played correctly. You have the same access to tools with shatter shot now that the melee have.

 

I would suggest a healthy dose of situational awareness would improve your game.

 

Actually to counter a sniper you take 2 steps, and all his cooldowns are wasted, then just trap him out of cover with snares when he moves to get LoS and its GG.

 

To counter a Mara you have to know which spec your fighting to pick which abilities to CC or try avoid. People used to say it was the hardest class to play, but in all honesty you have to know more about the class then the person playing it to be able to counter it.

[Odahviin]

Actually to counter a sniper you take 2 steps, and all his cooldowns are wasted, then just trap him out of cover with snares when he moves to get LoS and its GG.

 

To counter a Mara you have to know which spec your fighting to pick which abilities to CC or try avoid. People used to say it was the hardest class to play, but in all honesty you have to know more about the class then the person playing it to be able to counter it.

 

Your right and an automatic knock back on ambush doesn't help at all. There are many ways to approach an unaware sniper / gunslinger and burn em down. However those with adequate situational awareness will start moving before or directly after they get jumped and kite then cover stun then kill.

 

If you can keep em at range you can burn em down easy, and don't give me that "i can stealth up to them garbage" Snipers and gunslingers have more than enough cc to deal with melee classes i know because i roll an IA MM.

 

anyone can kill an AC if they are persistent enough, as a sniper you

 

A) rip the melee to shreds

B) make killing you more trouble than it's worth.

 

besides all that, i posted to his complaint about defensive proc's, he was complaining about temporary shielding abilities on a COOLDOWN when he has automatic shielding abilities built into his class ie COVER.

 

It's kinda like the pot calling the kettle black.

[Macroecon]

Whether we think Mara/Sent needs a nerf or buff is irrelevant. BW thinks we need a buff and that is all that matters. We are only midway through the melee buffing process. Next classes to get nerfed will be Merc dps and Sorc dps. It's a virtual certainty. Edited April 29, 2012 by Macroecon

[Guioki]

Your right and an automatic knock back on ambush doesn't help at all. There are many ways to approach an unaware sniper / gunslinger and burn em down. However those with adequate situational awareness will start moving before or directly after they get jumped and kite then cover stun then kill.

 

If you can keep em at range you can burn em down easy, and don't give me that "i can stealth up to them garbage" Snipers and gunslingers have more than enough cc to deal with melee classes i know because i roll an IA MM.

 

anyone can kill an AC if they are persistent enough, as a sniper you

 

A) rip the melee to shreds

B) make killing you more trouble than it's worth.

 

besides all that, i posted to his complaint about defensive proc's, he was complaining about temporary shielding abilities on a COOLDOWN when he has automatic shielding abilities built into his class ie COVER.

 

It's kinda like the pot calling the kettle black.

 

All your automatic abilities your talking about are spec dependent. And all you have to do is remove you from cover and you lose it all.

I know what you mean though, but a mara is much harder to counter then a sniper.

 

(PS engi > marks for pvp)

[Arox]

nerf marauder/sentinels.

 

 

thanks.

[Isislol]

While I agree mara/sentinels need few nerfs I also think alot people were just used to facerolling in Huttball as ranged and spamming knockbacks/killing melee before they could make it back to them.

I still see ranged trying to hard cast vs marauders when they pop master strike/ravage and then crying on forums. I play few different classes not only marauder but when I'm on him I almost never see people using knockbacks/stuns/CC when I pop my CDs. Most will just tank me in melee range because that random knockback didn't work.

[Guioki]

While I agree mara/sentinels need few nerfs I also think alot people were just used to facerolling in Huttball as ranged and spamming knockbacks/killing melee before they could make it back to them.

I still see ranged trying to hard cast vs marauders when they pop master strike/ravage and then crying on forums. I play few different classes not only marauder but when I'm on him I almost never see people using knockbacks/stuns/CC when I pop my CDs. Most will just tank me in melee range because that random knockback didn't work.

 

One of the problems is the posts were trying to balance the entire pvp experience around huttball, which is now played far less so ranged classes have much less use and generally nowhere to run.

[Narfirill]

To get clear

My game is quite good actually thank you very much, as is my situational awareness.

I don't complain, but in a thread that discus sentinels i say that their current defences are too good. 50% , 99% damage mitigation 25% damage mitigation and avoidance are to good. In comparison snipers you get 20% damage mitigation +20 with area shield. and the shield probe that does some mitigation for 1-1,5k. and then you have to be creative with push backs and routs/mini stuns... it takes practise but you learn it... but the effectiveness is situational and not granted as in maras/sents.

If you read my very first post you will see that in a thread that discus sents/maras i say they dps OK but their defences are a bit too effective now.

now we can discus the subject correctly i hope.

And when you post on forums attack other guys ideas not them personally.

[TonyDragonflame]

Nerf mara's.

 

Then nerf sorcs and sins please.