Mar/Sents

[AmonSWTOR]

So, he blows all his CDs in one fight and is now gimp for 1-3 minutes?

 

Must be fun having the best survivability! /sarcasm

 

Jebus, in combination with the rest, as in what the class has to offer >_>

You know exactly what i was talking about and if you play Sent/Mara, you know it just is like that.

[SturmUndSterne]

Why would you want a knockback as a melee class? If anything you want your opponent as close as possible. For CC you have "awe" and "pacify" is a nice debuff too. Personally I feel like I have plenty of skills at my disposal but many are situational so you can't just macro a rotation and expect it to work all the time. I haven't played other classes but does anyone have a stun not broken by combat?

 

1. PvE.

 

2. When there're four or five people on you at once, having some means to mitigate them all might give you a bit more survivability. Granted, we have the defensive buffs for that, but .. one extra second of knockback to *hit* those buffs would be nice (and yes, OP)

 

3. Knockback + force leap = focus gain.

 

4. Knockback = interrupt. (Not that sents need another one of those)

Edited April 18, 2012 by SturmUndSterne
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[AngusFTW]

Why would you want a knockback as a melee class? If anything you want your opponent as close as possible. For CC you have "awe" and "pacify" is a nice debuff too. Personally I feel like I have plenty of skills at my disposal but many are situational so you can't just macro a rotation and expect it to work all the time. I haven't played other classes but does anyone have a stun not broken by combat?

pretty sure the majority of classes especially of the shadow/sage variety have a stun that isnt afffected by combat. Knockback, guardians get one. Its useful in huttball to stop a tank from scoring... if a sentinel is the only guy going after someone attempting to score unless you kill the guy you're pretty screwed.

 

I'm not saying its abilities we need but i'm saying its the kind of abilities we don't have in comparison to other classes which is why i don't think its particularly oped for us to have gbtf/force camo.

[iiell]

its funny how simple this line is thinking is. When people cried for op nerfs, just use your cc breaker. Marauder just use your stun. The fact of the matter is that Marauder destroy almost every class but sniper and a well played OP/Jugg with relative ease. That is the problem, I don't think big nerfs need to come, minor tweaks, either 10% less damage or 10% less survivability would do it.

 

Only bad players complain that OP stuff is alright.

 

 

If you take away their survivability, most will never beat their class story. People fail to realize that PVP isn't the only aspect of this game and all those little abilities people cry about in PVP are, believe it or not, necessary in PVE.

[unicornfive]

simply root/stun them.

 

Example: When I see a marauder do his DR I do awe as a fake stun just in case he has is escape off CD. Force him to break then do force stasis...Bam he just wasted his "awesome" ability. If either of those are on CD I camo. The same can be applied with other classes that have roots/stuns. Healers do this same thing with their heals. Cast one to force someone to waste an interrupt then cast their good heal. Its called playing smart.

 

Only bad players complain about stuff that isn't OP.

 

Mara does ravage i do awe

Mara use cloak of pain, i do awe

Mara does 99% dmg reduce spec, i do awe

Mara does -90% acurancy debuff on me, i do awe

 

I got sick of watching these fail posts...

Awe has 1 min cd...and u can use it once....u choose what spell of his to interrupt...

If he trinkets at start and dot u like a christmas tree...have fun using choke and other thing to stall the fight....

You would be dead in no time

Also they first dot, and then use defensive cds...

 

2nd....Mara/sent, has awe too...And he can use it easily to counter your +30% hp cd...or ur new worthless "defensive" cd that guardian / sents got. Or to interrupt your Ravage....

3rd Mara has stealth too to cancel your +30% hp , your saber ward and Your ravage.

 

4th, even if the u manage to negate all his defensive cds...Mara would still outdmg u...

 

I beat maras too as jugg...I beat so many backpedlers, keyboard turners, clickers, etc...

But never ever managed to beat a mara that has a clue how to play his class...

[Valastia]

its funny how simple this line is thinking is. When people cried for op nerfs, just use your cc breaker. Marauder just use your stun. The fact of the matter is that Marauder destroy almost every class but sniper and a well played OP/Jugg with relative ease. That is the problem, I don't think big nerfs need to come, minor tweaks, either 10% less damage or 10% less survivability would do it.

 

Only bad players complain that OP stuff is alright.

 

It's not that this is a simple line of thinking, it's that fighting a sent, even a good one, is a pretty easy thing to do with just one strategy: run in a circle. That's it. It blows my mind how many sorcs/ops/mercs just stand there and let me beat them to death. I duel my guildies all the time to help them know how to fight a sent, and the best one by far is the scoundrel. He runs in a circle. I slow him, I leap and root him, but he stays just out of my melee range enough to heal himself up. In WZs, the people who give me fits are the mobile ones. If they're running around and use any CC on me, it's a much more fair fight, and I lose about as often as I win. It's when other classes expect that staying stationary and trying to go toe-to-toe with me is going to let them win that I appear OP.

 

In other words, move around, use CC, don't let me beat on you uninterrupted, and you'll have a pretty good chance of surviving.

[iiell]

Jebus, in combination with the rest, as in what the class has to offer >_>

You know exactly what i was talking about and if you play Sent/Mara, you know it just is like that.

 

And if you played a Sent/Mara you'd know they need the abilities they have for the other aspect of this game...you know PVE/ class story. Well at least the Sent anyways...can't say for Mara cuz I haven't played one through their class quests yet.

[mordredz]

when you combine it with the fact the marauder can do 70% of a persons health in damage at that moment.

 

ROFL to a nakid person yes? logic still amaze's me!

[mordredz]

its funny how simple this line is thinking is. When people cried for op nerfs, just use your cc breaker. Marauder just use your stun. The fact of the matter is that Marauder destroy almost every class but sniper and a well played OP/Jugg with relative ease. That is the problem, I don't think big nerfs need to come, minor tweaks, either 10% less damage or 10% less survivability would do it.

 

Only bad players complain that OP stuff is alright.

 

Hmm a full stun lock kill vs something you can avoid? ROFL your logic is still the best on the internet! keep it up!

[Sookster]

In response from the other thread that got closed; if you're having trouble fighting snipers/gunslingers, then you aren't using force camo properly. Camo and run right up to them and demolish them with CoP active and since most of their attacks are weapon based- saber ward + defense relic, they aren't hard. Edited April 18, 2012 by Sookster

[mordredz]

In response from the other thread that got closed; if you're having trouble fighting snipers/gunslingers, then you aren't using force camo properly. Camo and run right up to them and demolish them with CoP active and since most of their attacks are weapon based- saber ward + defense relic, they aren't hard.

 

You realize they can knock you back with 2 things right? root you in place also right? so 1 force camo vs 3 = gud? k

[AngusFTW]

Well played ones are a pain for us enough said if we do beat them we are usually one shotted by someone else afterwards

[iiell]

In response from the other thread that got closed; if you're having trouble fighting snipers/gunslingers, then you aren't using force camo properly. Camo and run right up to them and demolish them with CoP active and since most of their attacks are weapon based- saber ward + defense relic, they aren't hard.

 

Play a Sent/ Mara, level to 50 and let me know how this works out for you. In fact, Fraps it for us!

[AmonSWTOR]

And if you played a Sent/Mara you'd know they need the abilities they have for the other aspect of this game...you know PVE/ class story. Well at least the Sent anyways...can't say for Mara cuz I haven't played one through their class quests yet.

 

It's in my Sig you know, not hard to spot.

Life pretty much sucks from Alderaan till you get Doc, u need as much Interrupts as you can get (which is why i can't understand anyone not using Watchmen/Annihilation for lvling) and of course i know how important those skills are.

What exactly has that to do with what I and other people here said?

That you do need those skills for your story does not change the fact that we DO have the best survivability in pvp, aside from Tankassins, does it?

[iiell]

It's in my Sig you know, not hard to spot.

Life pretty much sucks from Alderaan till you get Doc, u need as much Interrupts as you can get (which is why i can't understand anyone not using Watchmen/Annihilation for lvling) and of course i know how important those skills are.

What exactly has that to do with what I and other people here said?

That you do need those skills for your story does not change the fact that we DO have the best survivability in pvp, aside from Tankassins, does it?

 

I think Ops/Scoundrels have great survivability as well...

[SinnedWill]

Sorry, but Marauders/Sentinels really arn't too terribly OP'd. They die every time 1v1 against a player that knows to save their stun and when to apply it. The real OP'd class is tank-Assassin/Shadow. They have more damage mitigation than a marauder does even with cloak of pain active, a shield generator to even further mitigate damage, a 45 second CD 5s duration IMMUNITY to everything (including stuns, roots, DoT's and debuffs) which also removes all previously existing conditions and doesn't cost them half their current health to activate, solid burst damage, better self-healing, and better CC.

 

Marauders are vulnerable to DoT's, Roots, Slows, stuns (slows/roots require using force camo's cooldown to break once every 45s), there is no method to remove DoT's, so even if undying rage is used the DoT's will finish marauders off. Roots act like a stun - can't force charge/obliterate while rooted, so unless someone's in melee range, marauders are free targets while rooted.

 

As for survivability: marauders MUST have the best gear possible to be able to survive even a 2v1 (in the marauder's favor) before killing that single target without wasting a defensive cooldown. Undying Rage is nice for extending our lifespan an extra 5s (more if we have a pocket healer), but has a 90s cooldown (60s if rage specced). Cloak of Pain is our best defensive cooldown (+20% mitigation) but is easily recognizable and a single stun or root (without further attacks during the stun/root) will cause it to vanish, so don't put a DoT on a marauder when this is active unless you're intentionally trying to extend their survival. Saber Ward lasts a whopping 12s, with a 3 min. cooldown and is worthless unless used in the right situation (usually against another marauder or gunslinger/snipers -whom still land most of their attacks-). Marauder without any defensive cooldowns = easy kill.

Here's how each spec plays out:

 

Annihilation: Very good sustained DPS, good burst DPS, moderate survivability. Easiest spec to kite with slows/roots.

 

Carnage: Very good burst DPS, moderate-to-good sustained DPS, low survivability. This is the spec that everyone is crying about getting melted by. Difficult to kite, due to roots and passive movement speed increase, but dies in 10s (15s every 90s with the usage of Undying Rage). Furthermore, gore seems to bug out and lose its effect often if stunned, knocked back, or rooted after its application even if there is still time remaining on it. Good players wait for them to gore before applying any of these to effectively counter the burst damage - while gore is on cooldown, this spec is only dealing moderate-to-good damage to single targets or applying roots+heal debuffs on healers. Easily killed by 3 strong attacks.

 

Rage: Very Good burst DPS (especially against clustered groups), moderate sustained DPS, moderate-to-low survivability. The one trick pony of marauders. Very easy to avoid its empowered smashes (simply check their buff bar for stacks of "shockwave" buffs to know when to avoid the smashes. Force Crush's Slow + Damage can be removed with purges, smash can be avoided with a well-timed stun, knockback, root,and can often be avoided by merely moving away and jumping (if you don't happen to have any other means to counter it). DPS from this spec is moderate while smash is on cooldown (usually doesn't even break a sorcerer's bubble). Slightly better overall survivability compared to carnage spec. Stun them at 40% health to ensure that they can't stay alive an extra 5s with undying rage.

Edited April 18, 2012 by SinnedWill

[AmonSWTOR]

I think Ops/Scoundrels have great survivability as well...

Thats cool and all, doesn't change what I said either...again.

I'm not saying "go screw up Sents/Maras!" (even tho that will probably happen lol), just saying that we do not have what we clearly have won't get us anywhere.

People need to stop beeing all defensive about their classes, if you can play, you will adapt.

If you have something with as much tools like a Sent/Mara, it doesn't take a genius to see that you got more than others.

People who saw that stayed with the class since the start, others jump the (really mainly due to the Expertise changes) OP wagon and roll poeple when they have CD's and their opponents don't.

People who sucked before, still do, even (or especially) with a Sent/Mara against decent players.

Edited April 18, 2012 by AmonSWTOR

[Serrowherrow]

Thats cool and all, doesn't change what I said either...again.

I'm not saying "go screw up Sents/Maras!" (even tho that will probably happen lol), just saying that we do not have what we clearly have won't get us anywhere.

People need to stop beeing all defensive about their classes, if you can play, you will adapt.

If you have something with as much tools like a Sent/Mara, it doesn't take a genius to see that you got more than others.

People who saw that stayed with the class since the start, others jump the (really mainly due to the Expertise changes) OP wagon and roll poeple when they have CD's and their opponents don't.

People who sucked before, still do, even (or especially) with a Sent/Mara against decent players.

I forgot about our pull/forcespeed/knockback/ranged-stun/ranged-dps. Oh wait..

A lot of people seem to be under the impression that sents/maras have a lot of utility and 'tools'. All they're really equipped with is the ability to survive, and do damage. Beyond that, all they have is tiny 1% group heals when specc'd and some decent group buffs that are on cooldown timers.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Serrowherrow

[iiell]

T

I'm not saying "go screw up Sents/Maras!" (even tho that will probably happen lol)

 

I agree. It will happen.

 

And I guarantee that people will still cry and complain. Just like they do about other, previously nerfed classes... BioWare cannot fix the "chair to keyboard interface"

[Raansu]

-Mara does ravage i do awe

-Mara use cloak of pain, i do awe

-Mara does 99% dmg reduce spec, i do awe

-Mara does -90% acurancy debuff on me, i do awe

 

-Walk away...

-Why would you waste it on that?

-As a sentinel you have several choices. Pacify,awe,camo,stasis, never counter with your own GBTF, thats just fail. Other classes have several choices to avoid DR/GBTF as well.

-Sure, why not.

 

I got sick of watching these fail posts...

Awe has 1 min cd...and u can use it once....u choose what spell of his to interrupt...

If he trinkets at start and dot u like a christmas tree...have fun using choke and other thing to stall the fight....

You would be dead in no time

Also they first dot, and then use defensive cds...

We have more then just awe... And that goes for other classes as well. They have more then just one ability to stop a marauder. If he trinkets and you cast force choke then you essentially just made him waste his DR. So whats the issue here? He wasted his defensive cool down, he's now an easy kill...

 

This is just a case of you being a bad player.

 

But never ever managed to beat a mara that has a clue how to play his class...

 

This can be said about any class. Despite all the nerfs to scoundrels I still see a few of them tear people up pretty badly.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Raansu

[Raansu]

its funny how simple this line is thinking is. When people cried for op nerfs, just use your cc breaker. Marauder just use your stun. The fact of the matter is that Marauder destroy almost every class but sniper and a well played OP/Jugg with relative ease. That is the problem, I don't think big nerfs need to come, minor tweaks, either 10% less damage or 10% less survivability would do it.

 

Only bad players complain that OP stuff is alright.

 

It's not a simple line of thinking, its a simple fact. Just because you are a bad player and don't know how to counter stuff does not make a logical strategy into a "simple line of thinking." Fact is, you don't know how to play so you cry OP.

 

Oh and for the record, I never had a problem with scoundrels/ops at launch and I think it's ridiculous that they have been nerfed so many times. They were squishy at launch and they are squishy now. The difference now is even extremely good players struggle to kill people because they have been nerfed so bad. At least at launch a good scoundrel could catch a slacker off guard, which was the entire point of that class. But thats in the past and an entirely different subject so meh.

[unicornfive]

-Walk away...

-Why would you waste it on that?

-As a sentinel you have several choices. Pacify,awe,camo,stasis, never counter with your own GBTF, thats just fail.

-Sure, why not.

 

 

We have more then just awe... And that goes for other classes as well. They have more then just one ability to stop a marauder. If he trinkets and you cast force choke then you essentially just made him waste his DR. So whats the issue here? He wasted his defensive cool down, he's now an easy kill...

 

This is just a case of you being a bad player.

 

 

 

This can be said about any class. Despite all the nerfs to scoundrels I still see a few of them tear people up pretty badly.

 

You DO realise that for mara , u are much easier kill than him?

He can kill u as fast as hot knife cuts through butter...

You dont have his dps to kill him faster than he ll kill u.

And you dont have even half of his defensive cd's to use..

 

Mara cant choke u while u use endure pain?....he can, and he made ur endure pain wasted...

Mara cant "awe" you while u do saber ward? He can, and he made ur saber ward wasted...

 

Now if he dot u from start before doing these and before using any defensive cd....you are dead before u realise it..

Edited April 18, 2012 by unicornfive

[Fdzzaigl]

99% Damage reduction should come with a 99% healing reduction. It should be an ability that you use to prolong your life a little bit further to finish opponents etc, not something that you can use as a free getaway when the enemy team has (finally) got you hammered. Part of the problem with marauders is that they're one of the few targets that are pointless to focus at the start of a warzone, because they can get away (twice even) anyway, allowing them to run amok.

 

More so, this is not their only defensive cooldown, they've got saber ward and cloak of pain as well, making fighting a Marauder a fight against layers of defense. Only tank assassins can somewhat compare.

 

Fighting teams with 5-6 Mara's & Jugg's who go about smashing you for 4k and blowing up whole teams, while being able to get away from burst themselves is getting seriously old, especially because they can all root you several times over and over as well.

 

Making Ravage uninterruptable then is a completely unneeded buff, it's not like other classes have it that easy (for example: Pulse Cannon only being uninterruptable after 5 stacks and with an investment right on top of the tree).

[AmonSWTOR]

I forgot about our pull/forcespeed/knockback/ranged-stun/ranged-dps. Oh wait..

A lot of people seem to be under the impression that sents/maras have a lot of utility and 'tools'. All they're really equipped with is the ability to survive, and do damage. Beyond that, all they have is tiny 1% group heals when specc'd and some decent group buffs that are on cooldown timers.

 

For a melee class, they have so much tools to do what they need to compared to others, its awesome.

I dunno, you make it sound like i'm just imagining those tools i have lol

We got stuff no one else has, something that is really really rare in MMO's nowadays.

When you're used to playing a Warrior in WoW, u can't do anything but jiggle at what we actually got here.

Especially as Watchmen/Annihilation, where u gather Centering really fast, Transcendance/Predation is simply awesome.

Transcendance/Predation (especially for Melee's) is not just decent, our Bloodthirst si not just decent, our MS debuff is not just decent, they're simply awesome.

If u think our utility is just average/decent, i would like to know what you're used to play to.

[Audenlol]

99% Damage reduction should come with a 99% healing reduction. It should be an ability that you use to prolong your life a little bit further to finish opponents etc, not something that you can use as a free getaway when the enemy team has (finally) got you hammered. Part of the problem with marauders is that they're one of the few targets that are pointless to focus at the start of a warzone, because they can get away (twice even) anyway, allowing them to run amok.

 

More so, this is not their only defensive cooldown, they've got saber ward and cloak of pain as well, making fighting a Marauder a fight against layers of defense. Only tank assassins can somewhat compare.

 

Fighting teams with 5-6 Mara's & Jugg's who go about smashing you for 4k and blowing up whole teams, while being able to get away from burst themselves is getting seriously old, especially because they can all root you several times over and over as well.

 

Making Ravage uninterruptable then is a completely unneeded buff, it's not like other classes have it that easy (for example: Pulse Cannon only being uninterruptable after 5 stacks and with an investment right on top of the tree).

 

Haha, the infamous 31/31/31 marauder spec.

 

Get 1 sorc, stand near a ledge, cast a knockback.... take 1 step out of los ...there goes 5-6 warrior classes

 

Watch out! :wea_03: