how do sith lose this war?

[Roshe]

Hmm, how do the Sith lose the war?

 

According to the Jedi Knight storyline, the JK kills the Emperor. Now, I don't think they (or the majority of the Empire) realize it's not his real body, so the Republic see's this as utter victory while the Empire see's it as a major demoralizing blow.

 

The Jedi Consular storyline defeats the Children of the Emperor which I think were intended to subvert the Republic from within. Another victory that spells the end of the Empire. (Not sure how the Empire side views this, at the moment. Haven't played that far along on that side).

 

At the end of the JK storyline, Darth Malgus claims the Dark Council has been dissolved and that he's creating a new Empire. I haven't gone into this part yet, but according to Wookieepedia, he loses and has to flee into the Unknown Regions (or something to that affect).

 

Those are just 3 points that I can name off the top of my head that reveal that the Empire lost this war.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Roshe

[Aloro]

Not sure if there is any official story regarding the outcome of this specific war yet.

 

There is no official story regarding how the current Sith Empire ends, or what happens to the Emperor. In game, it's around 3641 BBY by the end of the current storylines.

 

 

We know that this Empire won't be around in 1641 years, because Darth Ruin led the New Sith Empire at around 2000 BBY. It is unclear though whether this Empire lasts until then and is destroyed, or falls sometime between now and then. We also don't know why, precisely, this Empire falls. We don't know when the Emperor dies, or how. And no, the Jedi Knight didn't kill the Emperor in their class story. Sorry; that was just the Voice of the Emperor. Look it up.

 

We know that the Galactic Republic continues to exist in one form or another until Palpatine turns it into the Galactic Empire.

 

 

Other than that, we have a LOT of speculation, much of it masquerading as fact. The fact is, this part of Star Wars history isn't yet defined, which is one of the reasons Bioware chose to use this setting.

[Aloro]

According to the Jedi Knight storyline, the JK kills the Emperor. Now, I don't think they (or the majority of the Empire) realize it's not his real body, so the Republic see's this as utter victory while the Empire see's it as a major demoralizing blow.

 

 

According to the Sith Warrior storyline, that was merely the Voice of the Emperor. The Emperor remains alive. There are some detailed threads discussing exactly this point in great detail so I won't belabor it. The facts overwhelmingly support the interpretation that the Emperor is alive.

 

 

At the end of the JK storyline, Darth Malgus claims the Dark Council has been dissolved and that he's creating a new Empire. I haven't gone into this part yet, but according to Wookieepedia, he loses and has to flee into the Unknown Regions (or something to that affect).

 

 

The Dark Council has not been dissolved. The SI becomes a member of the Dark Council, and the Sith Warrior meets with them, at the end of their respective storylines.

 

 

Meaning no offense, but you seem to only play one side, and believe all their propaganda. I have chars on both sides and it's pretty clear to me that things are not remotely as one-sided as you claim.

[georgethomtas]

Okay I'm gonna say the obvious. The Sith lose the war they couldn't overthrow the republic until ep3 because in the films it clearly states that the republic had stood uninterrupted for over 23,000 years

[Aloro]

Okay I'm gonna say the obvious. The Sith lose the war they couldn't overthrow the republic until ep3 because in the films it clearly states that the republic had stood uninterrupted for over 23,000 years

 

The Republic continues to exist in some form, yes. That doesn't mean the Sith lose this war. We simply don't know.

[Listerman]

The Sith just sort of thrive on a dynamic that makes it very hard for themselves. Backstabbing, plotting, removing those that might circumvent them, paranoia...A fragile powerbase at best.

The Empire would have stood a better chance if their society wasn't governed on the whims of sorcerors cracked out on their own power. They are indeed their own worst enemy.

[Roshe]

According to the Sith Warrior storyline, that was merely the Voice of the Emperor. The Emperor remains alive. There are some detailed threads discussing exactly this point in great detail so I won't belabor it. The facts overwhelmingly support the interpretation that the Emperor is alive.

 

 

 

 

 

The Dark Council has not been dissolved. The SI becomes a member of the Dark Council, and the Sith Warrior meets with them, at the end of their respective storylines.

 

 

Meaning no offense, but you seem to only play one side, and believe all their propaganda. I have chars on both sides and it's pretty clear to me that things are not remotely as one-sided as you claim.

 

No offense taken.

 

The point I was trying to make in the first part was that from the point of view of the general populations of both Republic and Empire, I feel that it is believed that the Emperor is dead. That's just the feeling I get from having looked at both sides. On the Republic side, even the title scroll that you see when logging in says that the Emperor is dead (for my JK, anyway), so I think that's what the majority of the Republic believes. On the Empire side, I get the feeling that the SW story makes it seem like ONLY the SW (and those closely associated with that storyline) understand that the Emperor is, in fact, alive. I could be mistaken, but that's how it looks to me.

 

As for the second part, I understand that the Inquisitor becomes a member of the Dark Council, but in my Jedi Knight after-50 storyline, the quest I get after killing Lord Loyat and Darth Arho, Darth Malgus makes an Empire-wide announcement that the Republic picks up where he declares the Council has been disbanded. I know the Sith are notorious for misleading people, so while the Council does, in fact, continue on with the SI as a part of it, he's making a very public announcement to the contrary. That was the point I was trying to make in how the Republic and Empire might perceive their respective statuses and how it could lead to Empire losing the war.

 

Mind you, these are all events that take place after the 3rd chapters are completed and are optional quests, but I was using them as examples.

[Aloro]

The point I was trying to make in the first part was that from the point of view of the general populations of both Republic and Empire, I feel that it is believed that the Emperor is dead. That's just the feeling I get from having looked at both sides. On the Republic side, even the title scroll that you see when logging in says that the Emperor is dead (for my JK, anyway), so I think that's what the majority of the Republic believes. On the Empire side, I get the feeling that the SW story makes it seem like ONLY the SW (and those closely associated with that storyline) understand that the Emperor is, in fact, alive. I could be mistaken, but that's how it looks to me.

 

I had the opposite impression. It seemed to me that only the Jedi Knight knows about the confrontation with the Voice, and only the Jedi Knight believes the Emperor to be dead. No other mention of the Emperor's death appears anywhere in game that I am aware of. No planetary arcs mention it, no other class stories mention it, no flashpoints mention it, and no operations mention it. There's a complete absence of news about it, except for the Jedi Knight's storyline. Well, and the Sith Warrior's storyline of course, where it's explained that the Emperor is not in fact dead.

 

As for the second part, I understand that the Inquisitor becomes a member of the Dark Council, but in my Jedi Knight after-50 storyline, the quest I get after killing Lord Loyat and Darth Arho, Darth Malgus makes an Empire-wide announcement that the Republic picks up where he declares the Council has been disbanded.

 

Yeah, that's immensely misleading. Now I see where you're coming from.

 

Here's the quote to which you refer:

"Fellow Sith, citizens of the Empire, too long the strength of the Empire has been beholden to the infighting of the Dark Council and the disappearance of an apathetic Emperor. Sith, children of Sith, warriors everywhere, I declare a new Empire opened to all who long the conquest, freedom from inhibition and the right to follow that passion. The Dark Council is dissolved, those who will join Darth Serevin and supporting me, cast aside your titles and let me lead you to victory."

 

 

Darth Malgus basically tried to stage a coup and split off his own Empire. That didn't work out for him and his plans were foiled, although he appears to have escaped with his life. Regardless, the Dark Council remains in place, and the Emperor remains the Emperor. Time will tell what next comes of Darth Malgus.

 

 

Edit to add: There's a rather HUGE clue in the name of the flashpoint where you defeat Darth Malgus. It's called "The False Emperor".

Edited April 18, 2012 by Aloro

[Heavyblaster]

2,000 years is a very long time. Heck, Palpatine's empire only lasted for around 20 some years. For all we know, the Sith could of won the war. Over 2,000 years countless events could have occured that would have lead to ending of the of the Sith Empire , leaving plenty of time for the Republic to rise again. Just my 2 cents.

[Menthro]

Time warp. Or the fourth Doctor steps in.

 

But in all seriousness this sith empire loses the exact same way all the sith empires lose. They stab each other in the back.

 

Reven's Empire?

Palpatine's?

Thrawn's?

Whateverthe****isgoingonafterwards?

 

Each of them got back stabbed by a loyal compatriot.

[Girdeux]

2,000 years is a very long time. Heck, Palpatine's empire only lasted for around 20 some years. For all we know, the Sith could of won the war. Over 2,000 years countless events could have occured that would have lead to ending of the of the Sith Empire , leaving plenty of time for the Republic to rise again. Just my 2 cents.

 

You dont seem to know much about EU if you think there is 2,000 years of unwritten lore. They got at max maybe 400 years to play with until the next Dark lord shows up who has NO affiliation to the Sith Empire. His a fallen jedi. With the republic still intact and thousands of jedi still around.

 

Even then, approximately 200 years from the game events now its been referenced in the Atlas Book that the Old Republic founded a planet and they joined the Old Republic.

 

Its pretty obvious the Sith Empire will be obliterated, with some Genocide weapon that destroys the Sith Species.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Girdeux

[Habushun]

Well if we look at the jedi knight story line:

 

 

The emperors ultimate going being the devouring of the entire galaxy, empire and republic alike

 

 

knowing that its quite easy to see that at some point the other sith went: now wait a minute!

[MORTTUUM]

Regardless of the whole "rule of two" thing, the Sith would eventually lose anyway. The Sith apply their dogmatic philosophy to their strategic outlook. That is always a losing plan...

[DeadlyScythe]

do they lose the war. In the end I have to say yes. As only Darth Ruin and Darth Sidious every fully controlled the galaxy as sith. But for now they are not realy losing the war.

 

all the imperials did was lose some battles like Correlia.

 

but i understand why you would say as the empire is breaking up a bit with, Malgus went his own way with the empire that is not hatefull against Aliens and the latest betrayel

 

 

The Dread Master. Yes it can be seen at the end of the EC ops. And with the leaks torhead had it is more that the Op from karagga palaca untill a future point will all go about the Dread Master lore. ( don't flame me for this)

 

 

so yea. Losing the war. not yet, not known.

lost some battles. Yea they did.

Edited April 18, 2012 by DeadlyScythe

[Velaran]

You dont seem to know much about EU if you think there is 2,000 years of unwritten lore. They got at max maybe 400 years to play with until the next Dark lord shows up who has NO affiliation to the Sith Empire. His a fallen jedi. With the republic still intact and thousands of jedi still around.

 

Even then, approximately 200 years from the game events now its been referenced in the Atlas Book that the Old Republic founded a planet and they joined the Old Republic.

 

Its pretty obvious the Sith Empire will be obliterated, with some Genocide weapon that destroys the Sith Species.

 

Great! Now i'll actually have evidence that the Republic and Jedi are irredeemable monsters.

 

Edit: Well, more evidence anyway. They already tried the genocide thing once.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Velaran

[Aloro]

You dont seem to know much about EU if you think there is 2,000 years of unwritten lore. They got at max maybe 400 years to play with until the next Dark lord shows up who has NO affiliation to the Sith Empire. His a fallen jedi. With the republic still intact and thousands of jedi still around.

 

And who would this be? As far as I am aware, there is about 1600 years of (largely) unwritten lore to work with between current in-game events and the rise of Darth Ruin's New Sith Empire. Could you provide citations please?

 

Wookiepedia is of course unreliable, but the timeline posted there for this period really shares little of importance between ~3600 and ~2000 BBY. We can tell that the Republic still exists at a few points in between, and the Jedi Temple on Coruscant is expanded a little, but there's absolutely nothing in there about what the Sith are up to during this period.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Inter-Sith_Wars_period

[Roshe]

I had the opposite impression.

 

I read that and the first thought that came into my mind was Ben Kenobi's quote about 'from a certain point of view'. I actually laughed out loud when I realized it.

[Aloro]

I read that and the first thought that came into my mind was Ben Kenobi's quote about 'from a certain point of view'. I actually laughed out loud when I realized it.

 

Heh, good one. The Jedi Knight did kill the Emperor... from a certain point of view. Darth Malgus did indeed dissolve the Dark Council... from a certain point of view.

[Eillack]

Heh, good one. The Jedi Knight did kill the Emperor... from a certain point of view. Darth Malgus did indeed dissolve the Dark Council... from a certain point of view.

 

Someone nees to make a [insert coment] and end it with "...from a certian point of view"

[TORPlayer]

The Jedi put together all of their resources to make an advanced AI child with circular logic. It will give the sith the option to either

 

A) Try to control the Jedi, but in the process all of the sith will die.

B) Attempt to destroy the republic, but send the empire into a dark age instead.

C) Merge Jedi and Sith to turn all Force-Sensitives into Jolee Bindos.

[Pathlight-]

The Jedi put together all of their resources to make an advanced AI child with circular logic. It will give the sith the option to either

 

A) Try to control the Jedi, but in the process all of the sith will die.

B) Attempt to destroy the republic, but send the empire into a dark age instead.

C) Merge Jedi and Sith to turn all Force-Sensitives into Jolee Bindos.

 

 

You win buddy. EA/BW will be trolled about their crappy ending for a long time.

[RDeanOU]

I don't think it's cliche to say that infighting is probably the primary cause. That's always the problem the Sith run into. You can see it playing through the Sith storylines as your main enemies are often not the Republic or Jedi, but other Sith.

 

So we have the Republic and the Jedi attacking the Sith and we have the Sith attacking each other.

 

Seems pretty obvious to me how that is going to go for the Sith.

[Timo]

I don't think it's cliche to say that infighting is probably the primary cause. That's always the problem the Sith run into. You can see it playing through the Sith storylines as your main enemies are often not the Republic or Jedi, but other Sith.

 

So we have the Republic and the Jedi attacking the Sith and we have the Sith attacking each other.

 

Seems pretty obvious to me how that is going to go for the Sith.

 

sign

 

I think it will and up in a great civil war were every Sith fights Battles of Glory against the other lords with their hired Mercenarys and Agents.. And then a wild republican Fleet appeared

 

1. Fight > 2. Run

3. Item 4. Sthlrds

Edited April 19, 2012 by Timo

[Velaran]

Okay, after some thought, I think I have something.

 

They'll simply retcon Darth Ruins Empire (which has almost total control of the galaxy just 1600 years after TOR) into this Sith Empire. Boom. The Old Republic era rapped up, Sith players satisfied they won the war, Republic players satisfied they win out eventually. Everything is good for everyone.

[Temeluchus]

Okay, after some thought, I think I have something.

 

They'll simply retcon Darth Ruins Empire (which has almost total control of the galaxy just 1600 years after TOR) into this Sith Empire. Boom. The Old Republic era rapped up, Sith players satisfied they won the war, Republic players satisfied they win out eventually. Everything is good for everyone.

 

Probably not. The only solace Imp players can have is that when Phanius becomes Ruin, he goes around bringing various displaced Sith clans into his Empire. These Sith are thought to be survivors from either TOR's Empire or stranded Sith from Revan or Exar Kun's empires. So maybe a few of our descendants live on for a while.