I don't think we are in Warhammer situation.

[Snibb]

I always find it friggin' hilarious when people name D3 as an MMO killer.

 

...

 

Are you inSAYAN? Srsly, you need a reality check, why even name it in the same breath with completely different game categories.

 

I'm 100% sure that *insert random multiplayer game here* will kill all MMO's. *trollface*

 

You doomsayers need to get out of here.

 

Your point of view is quite flawed... they are in the same catagory for me, which is big name releases. If I play D3 and it takes up most of my time, why pay for a SW sub?

 

If it takes up even a portion of time that D2 took, I won't have time to pay to play anything else. Heck, I've lost guildies to LoL which isn't a MMO, but is another popular PVP game out there.

 

TLDR, the whole viewpoint of games in other catagories not affecting any MMO is pretty ignorant since gamers don't stick to just one catagory.

[DSPD]

(Allow me to be a bit sceptical about TERA, which is another Asian MMO that make the concept ''grind'' get a whole new meaning, and whose engine will be even more awful than the Hero one)

 

I have to disagree with you on this one. While I'm not a huge Tera fan or supporter, I did just play the Closed Beta weekend and I have to say, the Unreal engine works flawlessly. It looks beautiful and runs smooth on max settings, something this game has serious trouble with. I'm not bashing ToR here but even the devs have said that 'chat bubbles' (just using this as an example) had to be pulled for the instability it caused with the engine. The other thing that was refressing with Tera was that it felt like an MMO. Was it a bit grindy? Sure, but it was open world, it wasn't lifeless, and it had most, if not all of the features that people come to expect of an mmo.

 

Again, don't get me wrong. I'm not leaving to play Tera anytime soon but I would imagine that there are a good few that will. It's not a bad game. That's not saying that ToR is, it's just that they're 2 different types of games. Honestly I wouldn't classify ToR as an mmo.

[savagepotato]

Atleast Warhammer online has the Best RvR system to-date, i can face 100vs100 without it lagging, which is kinda neat. the PvP is also superior in every way... It has Collision Detection, and that my friends is crucial for any PvP game, atleast when you try it out.

 

You can't run through anyone to get to the healer, you actually need to take out Tanks, and dps that are in the way.

 

So a good group of 6 can facepwn 20+ players easily, if not more.

 

Warhammer online with collision detection gives us | Strategy, tactics and teamplay.

 

Too bad the rest of the game sucked, the mechanics were awful. But i still play RvR from time to time, and it's so awsome, sure hope Gw2 copies alot of it.

 

I was pleased to learn Tera online has collision detection when I tried the CBT last weekend.

 

I have hopes that it might pan out to be a really good game.

[Wolfgarrex]

But what could have been had SWTOR not been released in its buggy state? ALOT MORE. That's what COULD have been. But who needs money anyways, let's throw it away..

 

If you are of this point of view, you are just kidding yourself.

There are few games that are released bug-free from the get-go, most have to have some kind of patch pretty shortly after release.

 

With MMOs those bugs are exercerbated due to the sheer amount of content and the non-linear gameplay. Also player against other players that might have an 'op' class makes it feel worse.

 

It wasn't the release of SWTOR that left is behind where it could have been, it was the real lack of innovation.

[Noctis_XZ]

Not everyone has the time to spam chat for hours trying to get a group formed and all to the starting point. I end up just playing solo because of this. There would be more group playing if /when they add LFG instance finder that forms the groups and transports you to/from your current location as is done with warzones.

Even with WZ if I want the daily I have to leave my quest area and travel to the fleet and then back to my quest area.

If I leave SWTOR it will probably be due to this factor and the time consuming interplanetary travel.(and don't say 'lazy' because who wants to spend their alotted game time hunting for groups and traveling.. not worth it)

 

While I do agree that the majority of someones game time shouldn't be spent looking for a group.. for anything for that matter. I still adhere to what I said earlier.

 

I had mixed feeling about Looking For Group Finders. If not implemented correctly they can have an overall negative effect on the community in the long run.

 

Cross-server finders are a horrible idea and should only be used when an MMO is taking a\it's dying breath. I can say that much at least.

 

Now a finder that only groups you with people on your server? That I can live with. You're still playing with people on YOUR SERVER at least. Though being warped to whatever dungeon you want to do or whatever I don't agree with you. Not wanting to travel to where you have to go to IS just being lazy.. unless traveling in whatever game is just horrible. In which case it is in SWTOR.

 

I wasn't exactly speaking about that kind of thing though. Casualness is running MMOs period. I can understand only being able to play for an hour or two a day and that's fine. But if you WILLINGLY purchase an MMO, which are just giant time-sinks, you should not expect to get everything/do everything the game has to offer. Plain and simple

[Goretzu]

For a while if you mean first two months i agree. AOC and WAR are known for the fastest decline in player base after release for a reason.

 

WAR had an initial decline which levelled off, then another after a bad patch, which again levelled off, with slow declines in-between.

 

1.4 was that last big decline and really finished off the game.

 

 

The problem was there was very little speed of improvement or listening to players (Bioware are doing a much better job so far), in fairness though WAR development staff was destroyed in late beta, so it's no real surprise it was so slow after Live.

 

I think if WAR had had SWTOR current Dev budget things might have been very different indeed.

[savagepotato]

I have to disagree with you on this one. While I'm not a huge Tera fan or supporter, I did just play the Closed Beta weekend and I have to say, the Unreal engine works flawlessly. It looks beautiful and runs smooth on max settings, something this game has serious trouble with. I'm not bashing ToR here but even the devs have said that 'chat bubbles' (just using this as an example) had to be pulled for the instability it caused with the engine. The other thing that was refressing with Tera was that it felt like an MMO. Was it a bit grindy? Sure, but it was open world, it wasn't lifeless, and it had most, if not all of the features that people come to expect of an mmo.

 

Again, don't get me wrong. I'm not leaving to play Tera anytime soon but I would imagine that there are a good few that will. It's not a bad game. That's not saying that ToR is, it's just that they're 2 different types of games. Honestly I wouldn't classify ToR as an mmo.

 

Also tried the CBT and I will echo what this guy is saying. The engine was awesome. The game was far from perfect but it looked very promising and interesting.

[RachelAnne]

Warhammer was unplayable at release and months after, to do pvp was impossible because of an engine bug that caused every player to lag horrible.

 

The community had to fix this by releasing an addon called "Buff throttle" so that you could play atleast a bit more fluent.

 

 

SWTOR was playable from day 1, no major lagspikes steady 100 fps on modern pc´s.

 

 

Warhammer did also close servers, forced you to rename your chars on a strange server where you didnt want to be at all. At this point I stopped playing, months wasted and still no fix for the engine bug was in place by the puplisher.

 

 

 

SWTOR has some issues, like the grass pop up, tiny draw distance and high rez textures that still dont seem to work properly. But atleast you can log in and play the game

[Shingara]

You keep changing the goal post bro.

 

what are you on about, i said that the rvr system in warhammer was a great concept but the servers were trash, so which goal posts are you on about exactly.

 

Look back over the full topic and tell me i said something different, i dare you.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Shingara

[savagepotato]

Warhammer was unplayable at release and months after, to do pvp was impossible because of an engine bug that caused every player to lag horrible.

 

The community had to fix this by releasing an addon called "Buff throttle" so that you could play atleast a bit more fluent.

 

 

SWTOR was playable from day 1, no major lagspikes steady 100 fps on modern pc´s.

 

 

Warhammer did also close servers, forced you to rename your chars on a strange server where you didnt want to be at all. At this point I stopped playing, months wasted and still no fix for the engine bug was in place by the puplisher.

 

 

 

SWTOR has some issues, like the grass pop up, tiny draw distance and high rez textures that still dont seem to work properly. But atleast you can log in and play the game

 

Your memory is a bit selective.

 

Tor had months of complaining and threads outlining ability delay, with arguing back and forth. People getting horrid performance even with good pc's only to be dismissed. And ultimately they removed ilum pvp from the game because they couldn't rectify the performance issues.

 

SLI still doesn't work right with Antialiasing turned on. If I enable it I still get the corrupted load screens and crashes, so I have to run on just one card if I want AA.

Edited April 13, 2012 by savagepotato

[Dawgtide]

If you were serious, I'd get behind that.

 

I'm here for KOTOR 3. It seems the devs took KOTOR 3, tried to mash in enough to call it an MMO so they could get subs...

 

I'm no MMO fan... like at all... but by reading posts, it seems they failed.

 

EA is also alienating people like me, who wanted a single player game all along, and the only topics I hear about is... PVP... raids... and not one damn word about chapters 4+

 

I was a big defender of the game, but it's gone now. I’m guess EA is backpeddling and trying to put in more MMO stuff in TOR at the last minute.

 

I’m not saying everyone, but, from my impression…

 

MMO fans are upset, because any semblance to MMO content and features is being added at a “too little too late” pace.

 

RP / Story fans like myself are upset because there is barely a mention about new chapters, new planets with new stories, etc… now all advertising is about WZ, and ranked PVP (pulled), and new raids, and… argh…

 

(It bears repeating = Legacy has nothing to do with Story. It’s a treadmill. MMO fans can speak for themselves. But this RP / Story player isn’t happy with Legacy. That money should have gone to getting chapters / levels / planets in sooner… at least IMO)

 

EA managed to upset both sides of the playerbase… at once.

 

Maybe I’m having a bad day, but I’m really REALLY sick the whole thing. Spacebar people that talk loud enough that EA / BW is now focusing on PVP / Raids. EA / BW not even saying squat about future story plans.

 

Was a big defender of TOR… but now… EA / BW should have done an either / or.

 

Made TOR pure MMO, no story to keep the spacebar people happy, and just do a great MMO, and I wouldn’t have wasted my money here.

 

or Made TOR an SPOG, no raids / no PVP to keep people like me happy, and do a great online single player game (to BLANK pirates), and MMO people wouldn’t have wasted their money here.

 

But story / MMO… it’s chocolate and tuna fish. Doesn’t go together. Because, just as I’m sure some people don’t want to hear about “new stupid story they’d have to spacebar through”, I don’t want to hear about “new stupid PVP / raids that I’ll never play in”.

 

Oh well. My guess is, that by the time I’ve done all 8 character arcs, the re-focus on PVP / Raids will have chased off most of the KOTOR-3 fans… but, since the MMO part feels like an “add on” to a single player game, it’ll be “too little to late” for the MMO crowd.

 

I’d love to be wrong.

 

I play like you do, but I have to disagree. When I saw MMO, I knew going in that the story wouln't progress much if any until the first expansion. I mean there are 8 stories to continue and that takes time. I am just enjoying each of the 8 stories now.

 

You have the right to your opinion, but this was advertised as an MMO and we should know that things like raiding are going to get priorities too. Considering, we have 8 stories we can do as soloers and they only have a couple of operations and 11ish flashpoints, (And we can do the flashpoints solo above level I might add) I don't see the problem with this patch for one more operation and flashpoint. Same thing for PVP and warzones.

 

Bioware will continue the story, but it may be 6 more months away. Honestly, that is what I expected knowing it said MMO. I want to assure the developers that not all soloers are upset. Heck, we got 8 Mass Effects or Dragon Ages already. Although I will say none of the 8 stories are as long as the great one, Dragon Age Origins.

[LordRaeth]

WaR died because of lack of funding, funding which was stripped when EA took over Mythic.

[Holden_Dissent]

Your memory is a bit selective.

 

Tor had months of complaining and threads outlining ability delay, with arguing back and forth. People getting horrid performance even with good pc's only to be dismissed. And ultimately they removed ilum pvp from the game because they couldn't rectify the performance issues.

 

FPS and ability delay were argued extensively. That leads me to believe it didn't affect everyone.

[Gorrdan]

what are you on about, i said that the rvr system in warhammer was a great concept but the servers were trash, so which goal posts are you on about exactly.

 

Look back over the full topic and tell me i said something different, i dare you.

 

Sigh..the guy i originally quoted was talking about 100 vs 100 battles without lagging. I called bull on that so you jump in to his defense saying he is talking about system and not server play ability. Even though he mentioned 'lag free'.

 

But in order to have a 100 vs 100 player battle you do need as good server stabillity as much as you need a good system. Both are related to each other.

 

You are just trying to mind f*** me right now on purpose.

[Goretzu]

Your memory is a bit selective.

 

Tor had months of complaining and threads outlining ability delay, with arguing back and forth. People getting horrid performance even with good pc's only to be dismissed. And ultimately they removed ilum pvp from the game because they couldn't rectify the performance issues.

 

SLI still doesn't work right with Antialiasing turned on. If I enable it I still get the corrupted load screens and crashes, so I have to run on just one card if I want AA.

 

 

 

Warhammer Online at Live played better than Ilum at Live, that is for sure.

[Shingara]

WaR died because of lack of funding, funding which was stripped when EA took over Mythic.

 

Warhammer was always under ea, it was goa that did the most damage to warhammer and it took years for ea to get rid of goa and try and sort it out.

[Agemnon]

For MMOs, there are different degrees of sucesss.

 

On top of the scale, there is ''that other game''

 

On the bottom, there is Warhammer Online and FFXIV.

 

Can't believe I wanted to play FFXIV so badly! I've never actually played it but the races look so cute! I love the anime style but I hear it's very unresponsive and the crafting's a nightmare based on Moon cycles or something.

[DalrisThane]

Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig. Edited March 31, 2013 by DalrisThane

[theskurGe]

WAR had an initial decline which levelled off, then another after a bad patch, which again levelled off, with slow declines in-between.

 

1.4 was that last big decline and really finished off the game.

 

 

The problem was there was very little speed of improvement or listening to players (Bioware are doing a much better job so far), in fairness though WAR development staff was destroyed in late beta, so it's no real surprise it was so slow after Live.

 

I think if WAR had had SWTOR current Dev budget things might have been very different indeed.

 

WAR had a massive hemorrhaging of subscribers early. Then they lost more subs when the one month, 3 month, and six month pre-paid subs ran out.

WAR had a roughly 100 million dollar budget, half that of the SWTOR budget, and they still failed.

[vingmotor]

so basicly they should ignore the pvp ppl. or they have a warhammer game on their hands?

[Agemnon]

Also, I plan on trying out Tera. The biggest problem I see with it so far is worrying about not being able to rebind "F" for pick up items to a skill, and make right click pick up items instead and finding a way to mouse turn.

[gamersub]

I think that Bioware has done a great job of this game. It is engaging and fun to play, there is always something to do and I never run out of quests to fill my gaming time. As someone who has just finished Chapter 1, I found the story lines of main and single quests to be enjoyable enough not to spacebar through them. Having said that, I can tell you that after the 50th quest in WoW, all I was doing was clicking to get the thing into my log and the same with other games. What Bioware did is a vast improvement.

 

What people seem to conveniently forget about WoW is the days of downtime at the beginning with little or no compensation. You want to talk bugs, remember the mail bug or being stuck on a taxi? How about falling through the center of the world entering dungeons or being shut out of dungeons altogether? Every game has launch bugs. Just because people forget this crap doesn't mean it didn't go on.

 

SWTOR has a lot going for it. Grow up and have some patience.

[Noctis_XZ]

Can't believe I wanted to play FFXIV so badly! I've never actually played it but the races look so cute! I love the anime style but I hear it's very unresponsive and the crafting's a nightmare based on Moon cycles or something.

 

I too was looking forward to playing the game at launch. Have the CE still unopened. Waiting for version 2.0 when it "relaunches". The difference between that game and SWTOR though is that while FFXIV had a pretty bad launch.. it's been steadily improving and I'm genuinely excited about any new information that comes out about on it. Where as with SWTOR 1.2 did nothing for me. What did it really add to the game besides some fixes that need to be fixed. A new OP and a new FP? They'll keep you busy for a whole week before the new paint smell wears off.

[Rudrash]

mythic should start working on TOR.. for future RvR based expansion,rvr lakes on planets,capital siege,etc...

 

 

WAR was great game and was better mmo than TOR,but forgotten by EA masters in start.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Rudrash

[Goretzu]

WAR had a massive hemorrhaging of subscribers early. Then they lost more subs when the one month, 3 month, and six month pre-paid subs ran out.

WAR had a roughly 100 million dollar budget, half that of the SWTOR budget, and they still failed.

 

It stabilised post Xmas after release, but then they brought in a hugely bad balance patch in april-ish which caused another exodus.

 

WAR had a decent development budget, but it wasn't read to be launched (it doesn't matter how much was spent, it doesn't alter that reality) and then EA destroyed the Dev team in late Beta so it didn't have the Dev resources it desperately needed to bring to bear once Live.

 

EA seem to have learnt that lesson with SWTOR, at least, they've kept a very strong development budget post-Live (so far anyway).