1.2 analysis, post-PTS

[Marqhill]

You dont need mobility thats why you have freeze force. If you pick the right skill tree you have an unlimited amount of that ability.

 

Actually, it doesn't matter what skill tree you pick. You can very easily spec into it in any of them. I used to use it before for my Vigilance skill tree. But then I just learned to manage my focus better and time my snares better.

[Valant]

You and Cap out to make a guild called Circle Jerk.

 

Tell you what..go play another Tank class this game. Go play any of them, at a high level, at level 50, and you'll begin to understand why we point certain things out. It's not that they're game breaking, its not that I'm NOT good at killing people- give me any class and I would do well because I'm a good player that, despite our gimpyness, excels at the worst and most uselessly complex class in SWTOR right now.

 

But you guys have trouble seeing the real core issues, here, so I'll stop responding to you since its obviously too hard of a concept to get.

[Cave_Dweller]

Apparently, I'm using some kind of hack, because I'm doing better than I was before. The top DPSers and healers on my server generally run around 200-400k for their particular role. I generally do about 75k protection and 125k damage, depending on the event. In huttball, I do significantly worse, because I'm either carrying the ball and spamming cc, or guarding the carrier and spamming cc. I generally got about 6-10 medals, depending on the game and on whether or not we were playing a premade. I run a mixture of Cent/Champ gear that I had been swapping DPS mods into, although once the patch hit, I was able to afford my first peice of BM leggings.

 

When I got the free respec after 1.2, I utilized it, and went full Vig, which I had never played before. I had used full Def, and the Def/Vig hybrid up until that point. The patch remapped some of my keys, which I didn't know about, and wasn't smart enough to anticipate, and so when I queued up, I was surprised when, every time I utilized Leap, my Legacy menu came up. Some powers didn't work unless I moused them. I was severely hamstrung.

 

I came out of Alderaan Civil War, PUG v PUG, with a win, 14 medals, 180k damage, and 65k prot.

 

I fail to see the logic of all the QQing going on.

[GarfieldJL]

Enjoy! 30% Dispatch? 15 - 23% damage increase to uninterruptable Master Strike? Sundering throw? Stagger at the bottom of our skill tree? Yes please! Yes to all of it! Oh GOD YES!!

 

Oh master strike is not interruptable, that explains why I've had it constantly interrupted by critters in PVE. Any knockback will disrupt master strike.

Edited April 14, 2012 by GarfieldJL

[Marqhill]

Oh master strike is not interruptable, that explains why I've had it constantly interrupted by critters in PVE. Any knockback will disrupt master strike.

 

broken record much? Quit ************ dude. In pvp enemy players can no longer use their 8 second cool down interrupt to stop your 30 second cool down channeled dps nuke. Now if someone wants to stop it then they have to burn one of their stuns or knock backs to stop it. which is balanced. As far as PvE is concerned you're doing pre programmed boss fights. just learn their pattern and make sure you're doing master strike when you're not about get knocked back before you use it. Its not rocket science. There are abilities in the game called "interrupts" they are specifically for interrupting things as the name implies. Master strike is immune to those. Master strike does NOT make you immune to CC. That would be broken.

[CapuchinSeven]

broken record much?

 

You've pretty much hit the point that I did with them, you're bored of reading the same old qq over and over again from the same few players who are simply unable to accept that most of the problems they have with this class lay firmly with them.

 

They won't be happy with Master Strike until it roots, bleeds, throws force flames, stuns and can be used from orbit like a Kung Fu Hustle Buddha Palm.

 

Cap....where are your screenshots at? Let's see just how good you are.

 

Oh look, yet another post calling me out on screenshots like I've not been here before. I wonder what the reply back will be when I post, "yeah well that doesn't prove anything" or the classic, just don't reply and pretend it didn't happen. :roll eyes:

 

You and Cap out to make a guild called Circle Jerk.

 

u mad bro?

[JefferyClark]

I don't think Jeff is saying you can't get your attacks off on a moving target- I think he's pointing out that our DPS lowers on targets that are highly mobile. Its pretty obviously some of you haven't tried to 1v1 a good Merc or Sorc, so I'll leave it at that.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. Any other class with more than 1 form of CC will beat us with all other things being equal, because they can constantly hover around that deadzone between force leap's min range and max melee range (which is where 99% of our attacks work, even the AOEs). Get slowed by force lightning? Can't get to range w/o force leap. Get rooted, gotta pop your cd to get free, and that's if you have resolve, otherwise you are just back in the same shape; or wait, all the while doing no real damage.

 

Slows/Snares/Roots are the worst, since they don't generate resolve (broken). Only a hard stun or a knockback generates resolve, and even then, you have to get hit with 2 of them to get a full resolve bar... so that's generally at least 10-15s under a stun in order to get resolve enough to pop your cd and get free... all the while you are getting hammered.

Edited April 15, 2012 by JefferyClark

[GarfieldJL]

broken record much? Quit ************ dude. In pvp enemy players can no longer use their 8 second cool down interrupt to stop your 30 second cool down channeled dps nuke. Now if someone wants to stop it then they have to burn one of their stuns or knock backs to stop it. which is balanced. As far as PvE is concerned you're doing pre programmed boss fights. just learn their pattern and make sure you're doing master strike when you're not about get knocked back before you use it. Its not rocket science. There are abilities in the game called "interrupts" they are specifically for interrupting things as the name implies. Master strike is immune to those. Master strike does NOT make you immune to CC. That would be broken.

 

Hate to break this to you, but I'm getting knocked back by standard strong critters in the new Corellian sector.

 

Further, it wouldn't surprise me if (based on Jeffery Clark's statements), that this carries over to PvP too.

 

Boss fights?!?! If it were only bosses I wouldn't be complaining, but this is regular guys you run into near the roadway.

[JefferyClark]

Hate to break this to you, but I'm getting knocked back by standard strong critters in the new Corellian sector.

 

Further, it wouldn't surprise me if (based on Jeffery Clark's statements), that this carries over to PvP too.

 

Boss fights?!?! If it were only bosses I wouldn't be complaining, but this is regular guys you run into near the roadway.

 

Yep, any knockback/push/pull (even a friendly one) interrupts master strike.

 

I played my Guardian some more in pvp the other day... I must say, damage is finally feeling right... but I still feel squishier than I did before, and now kiting is even more of an issue, especially in the new warzone (which is fun, but not as a Guardian).

 

I've also tested Force Freeze and it still isn't lasting for 6s. We're lucky to get 3 out of it, since the countdown starts instantly, but the affect doesn't. *bugreported*

 

WoW Warriors have 2 slows... 1 AoE w/ 50% slow for 6s, and 1 single-target w/ 50% slow for 15s that they get at level 8 and has a talent low in the Arms tree that gives it a chance to also apply a 5s immobilize...

 

Hamstring is a 10 Rage skill that slows an enemy target 50%. The snare effect lasts 15 seconds and the only cooldown on the ability is the generic global cooldown

 

That is what we need. Once we can finally stay on target, we can see exactly how much of a boost to survivability we need.

[TomC]

The master strike interrupt complaint is just baffling. There is literally no channeled skill in the game that doesn't get interrupted by knock backs and pulls. BUT we can spec to be IMMUNE to pulls and knock backs for 4 seconds after Force Leap. Are you skipping these talents and playing a PvE spec in PvP or something? Y U NO master strike while immune???

 

"Force Leap has a 100% chance to grant Unremitting, reducing all damage taken by 20% and granting immunity to interrupts and all controlling effects for 4 seconds."

[CapuchinSeven]

Yep, any knockback/push/pull (even a friendly one) interrupts master strike.

 

Good. If they couldn't it would be overpowered to make up for bad players (AND if we want to we can actually spec to become immune to all CC, I'm L O L just how much more easy mode do you want Bioware to make it?!). It's actually impossible to keep a straight face while you read crap like this. SERIOUSLY, can you be this bad and still be totally oblivious?

 

So it should be, un-interuptable, un-CC-able and you should be able to move while channelling it? It's comical that you just do not see how bad you are which wouldn't matter even in the slightest if you didn't seriously think that you're the bench mark, that your issues are issues with the Guardian class.

 

and now kiting is even more of an issue.

 

Seriously? Are you honestly posting on the Guardian forums that Guardians are easy to kite? Are you a clicker or something?

 

WoW Warriors have....

 

WoW is that way --->

 

Once we can finally stay on target.

 

Just. Wow. Utter wow.

Edited April 16, 2012 by CapuchinSeven

[JefferyClark]

The master strike interrupt complaint is just baffling. There is literally no channeled skill in the game that doesn't get interrupted by knock backs and pulls. BUT we can spec to be IMMUNE to pulls and knock backs for 4 seconds after Force Leap. Are you skipping these talents and playing a PvE spec in PvP or something? Y U NO master strike while immune???

 

"Force Leap has a 100% chance to grant Unremitting, reducing all damage taken by 20% and granting immunity to interrupts and all controlling effects for 4 seconds."

 

Hrmm, let's see... how about when I hit master strike, I leap, but by the time I make it to the enemy, he's 5m+ away because of stupid server lag... or better yet, I get kb'ed after I start to force leap, so cooldown is on, and I'm farther away than I started... or even how about that talent doesn't work 100% of the time, similar thing with the kb, if they cast a CC on you before you land, you get the full CC...

[Marqhill]

Yep, any knockback/push/pull (even a friendly one) interrupts master strike.

 

You mean just like literally EVERY CHANNELED ABILITY IN THE GAME? Yeah, Master Strike is like that. Accept in PvP it can't be interrupted. So that makes it slightly better doesn't it?

 

I've also tested Force Freeze and it still isn't lasting for 6s. We're lucky to get 3 out of it, since the countdown starts instantly, but the affect doesn't. *bugreported*

 

Grats that you're finally starting to use what is arguably the best snare in the game. It's an AoE, with no cool down and it costs anywhere from 2 Focus to Free. So yeah, incredibly frustrating for enemies to deal with. Learning to use this ability at the beginning of a fight makes it damn near impossible for you to be kited.

 

Also, no idea what you're talking about with the "bug." I use it all the time and it works like a charm. As soon as it's about to come off I just cast it again and again and again for as long as I need to until the target is dead, usually only twice. Unless the target uses their CC breaker they can't get away from me. If they use their 2 minute cool down cc breaker to get out of Freezing Force then guess what I do. I just use it again... because it has no cool down...

 

That is what we need. Once we can finally stay on target, we can see exactly how much of a boost to survivability we need.

 

Don't know what you're doing wrong bro. I'm sticky as glue. People crap their pants and burn every knock back/stun trying to get away from me and they don't succeed more often than not. With 2 leaps, an AoE snare, 4 seconds of CC immunity, 2 stuns (one of which is a DOT and a Force attack) and a knock back that resets the cool down on force leap we can be incredibly sticky.

 

Keep in mind that this is all from a PvP perspective. If you're having trouble dealing with strong mobs then I don't know what to tell you buddy. I mean, if you KNOW that your attack is going to get knocked back by that particular strong then don't use that attack on them... am I right?

 

EDIT:

 

BTW, to all Guardians who feel squishier, this is NOT a class issue. DPS in general got a significant buff in PvP. ALL classes are squishier now because the bonus given to Damage from Expertise is higher then the bonus given to Damage Reduction. If you're a tank spec'ed Guardian then you need to do a better job of sticking with your healer and protecting the crap out of that guy. If you're a DPS spec'ed Guardian then you need to be more efficient with your rotatio and make sure you're killing people faster than they kill you. It's been working for me.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Marqhill

[TomC]

So now you don't like master strike because of bugs? Dude just stop playing video games.

[GarfieldJL]

You mean just like literally EVERY CHANNELED ABILITY IN THE GAME? Yeah, Master Strike is like that. Accept in PvP it can't be interrupted. So that makes it slightly better doesn't it?

 

Master Strike was supposedly getting the uninterruptable attribute that the Focus tree had, it was taken out of the skill tree and was supposedly there simply because one was a guardian.

 

So you're telling us we should be okay with not having something, that Bioware clearly stated it would be there.

 

Grats that you're finally starting to use what is arguably the best snare in the game. It's an AoE, with no cool down and it costs anywhere from 2 Focus to Free. So yeah, incredibly frustrating for enemies to deal with. Learning to use this ability at the beginning of a fight makes it damn near impossible for you to be kited.

 

You gotta be kidding if you're suggesting Force Sweep is an AoE that stuns everything. It only works on weak, and some standard critters. Same with Blade Storm.

 

Also, no idea what you're talking about with the "bug." I use it all the time and it works like a charm. As soon as it's about to come off I just cast it again and again and again for as long as I need to until the target is dead, usually only twice. Unless the target uses their CC breaker they can't get away from me. If they use their 2 minute cool down cc breaker to get out of Freezing Force then guess what I do. I just use it again... because it has no cool down...

 

As a PvE guardian, last time I used freezing force was over a month ago, there is little to no point for me to use that skill.

 

Further, freezing force doesn't change the fact that knockbacks, interrupt a skill that supposedly can't be interrupted and leaves that skill on a cooldown.

 

Don't know what you're doing wrong bro. I'm sticky as glue. People crap their pants and burn every knock back/stun trying to get away from me and they don't succeed more often than not. With 2 leaps, an AoE snare, 4 seconds of CC immunity, 2 stuns (one of which is a DOT and a Force attack) and a knock back that resets the cool down on force leap we can be incredibly sticky.

 

You only have 2 attack leap skills if you are in the focus tree. Guardian Leap is defensive oriented. While you can use force leap twice if you use the force push for the insta cooldown. The 2nd attack leap skill is in the focus tree, in the 3rd level of said tree.

 

Keep in mind that this is all from a PvP perspective. If you're having trouble dealing with strong mobs then I don't know what to tell you buddy. I mean, if you KNOW that your attack is going to get knocked back by that particular strong then don't use that attack on them... am I right?

 

I'm managing to kill them, though a lot of my attacks are often generating less damage than they did prior to 1.2 now (and I even have upped the hilt I have, and have an augmented saber (simply transfered the old upgrades to the new weapon).

 

I noticed I'm a substancially more squishy and relying on having Doc out to heal me up as fast as I'm losing HP.

[Invictusthetaru]

Gotta agree with the people saying Vig is amazing here. Just read through this entire thread and a lot of things are being left out / looked at in black and white. I'll go through a few.

 

I run a 7 / 33 / 1 for the free freezing force and now I'm specced into zen strike...guys...we are amazing.

 

1. Guardians are team players. Period. If you get the jump on someone in a 1v1, congratulations, if you're competant now in vig spec they are ****ED. Seriously ****ed. No enemy now has been able to kill me AFTER I jumped to them except once when my CC breaker wasn't up, and that was an assassin tank w/ dps mods.

 

You NEED to be where the group is though. Our 1v1 capability is severely hindered against people that START attacking us. If we don't initiate, and it's a good player, we won't win a 1v1 unless we burn all our CD.

 

2.That being said, what I do is taunt the melees (juggs / marauders / ops), and jump to the ranged. Always. I can kill any sorc / merc / powertech (unless they pop bubble) in 1 rotation now. 1 rotation.

 

If I get knocked back after the 4 seconds I just guardian leap to a friendly and LoS. Remember, we excel in group play, you should have at least 2-3 people around to jump to in a WZ.

 

Seriously there is no reason to complain anymore. We have to be squishy because of how fast our enemies are going down, lol.

[Marqhill]

Garfield, it's pretty clear that you have little to no understanding of what you're talking about nor do you care to understand any of what I'm saying to you. You're just bad and you want to keep reading your own gripes. Allow me to explain how I know this.

 

Master Strike was supposedly getting the uninterruptable attribute that the Focus tree had, it was taken out of the skill tree and was supposedly there simply because one was a guardian.

 

So you're telling us we should be okay with not having something, that Bioware clearly stated it would be there.

 

Clearly you never used the ability nor did you understand how it would work. The ability that was in the focus tree works now EXACTLY like it did before they removed it and made it standard for all Jedi Knights. The 8 second cool down interrupt couldn't be used to stop Master Strike. That was it. Bioware never said anything about making you immune to CC during Master Strike. They made it uninterruptable. Which explicitly states that the class of abilities called "interrupts" wouldn't work on Master Strike. Stuns and CC's are a whole other class of abilities that work on all channeled abilities. So clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

You gotta be kidding if you're suggesting Force Sweep is an AoE that stuns everything. It only works on weak, and some standard critters. Same with Blade Storm.

 

Either you're purposefully trying to make me look bad by misquoting me or your reading comprehension is woefully lacking. Nowhere in that entire quote did I say anything about Force Sweep. As a matter of fact, what you're quoting was ALL in reference to Freezing Force. If you knew anything about Jedi Guardian abilities then you'd have understood that. Particularly considering that it was the first thing under your comments about Freezing Force and having experimented with it. Everyone knows that Force Sweep doesn't stun in PvP. If you can't win a debate based on the validity of your own argument don't purposefully misrepresent your opponents argument in order to attempt to gain some sort of advantage. It only ends up making YOU look like you don't know what you're talking about. And if you weren't do that then well... learn to read?

 

Further, freezing force doesn't change the fact that knockbacks, interrupt a skill that supposedly can't be interrupted and leaves that skill on a cooldown.

 

 

Freezing Force is more of a PvP ability then a PvE ability. That's true. Additionally, it doesn't have anything to do with master strike. Which is why in this particular section I didn't mention anything about Master Strike. I just wanted to make it clear that if you're having trouble keeping people from kiting you in PvP then we have a ridiculously good AoE snare that is most assuredly not bugged as you claim.

 

You only have 2 attack leap skills if you are in the focus tree. Guardian Leap is defensive oriented. While you can use force leap twice if you use the force push for the insta cooldown. The 2nd attack leap skill is in the focus tree, in the 3rd level of said tree.

 

I'm sorry, when I mentioned that you have 2 leaps I wrongly assumed that we were operating on a level of skill that was anywhere near the same. For that I apologize. You see, when I'm in a war zone and we're operating as a team I'm usually not the only person who is attacking my target. If I've been knocked back and there is a friendly target who was near the enemy in question then I'll Guardian Leap to him and then hit the tab key which allows me to target the enemy who knocked me back. It's really quite simple. It's just like if a friend is under attack and then you Guardian leap to the friendly target and begin attacking whomever is attacking them. It's one of those things that you do in this game when you're functioning as a team.

 

I'm managing to kill them, though a lot of my attacks are often generating less damage than they did prior to 1.2 now (and I even have upped the hilt I have, and have an augmented saber (simply transfered the old upgrades to the new weapon).

 

I noticed I'm a substancially more squishy and relying on having Doc out to heal me up as fast as I'm losing HP.

 

Can't say for PvE. In PvP I'm doing about 10% more damage on average per hit then I did pre 1.2 now that they changed up the way that Expertise works. It's pretty big difference.

[Skwinkles]

I would normally have a short novel's worth to reply to all of the fail in this thread. But thankfully Capuchin and Marqhill (on my phone sorry if i spelled wrong) have done the work for me. One thing that I will add since no one seems to have specified in the correct way:

 

JUST BECAUSE A KNOCKBACK CAN INTERRUPT A MS DOES NOT CLASSIFY IT AS AN INTERRUPT, THATS WHY YOU'RE CALLING IT A KNOCKBACK INSTEAD OF AN INTERRUPT.

 

If you read what you already wrote, you will see how BW changed MS to be immune to interrupts. No where does it day knockbakc. We are also the oenly class with a channe wl that cant be interrupte withd. I might agree with your complaints about it if MS didnt hit for a ton of dmg and was hard to pull off, except that it hits for a ton and is easy to pull off.

[CapuchinSeven]

Master Strike was supposedly getting the uninterruptable attribute that the Focus tree had, it was taken out of the skill tree and was supposedly there simply because one was a guardian.

 

......seriously...? This is your reply?

 

SERIOUSLY?

 

Garfield, it's pretty clear that you have little to no understanding of what you're talking about nor do you care to understand any of what I'm saying to you.

 

I've been saying this for around two months now, how you manage to hold it is is a wonder to me and you're a better man than I am. What they present as facts and views on our class is basically laughable.

 

I mean, can you keep a straight face when you're told we're easy to kite?

[Onager]

They won't be happy with Master Strike until it roots, bleeds, throws force flames, stuns and can be used from orbit like a Kung Fu Hustle Buddha Palm.

 

Golden reference is golden.

 

In fact it is routinely interrupted in PvE despite Bioware claiming it can't be interrupted. Any successful knockback will disrupt Master Strike.

 

Force Kick is an interrupt. Force Push is not an interrupt.

 

CC still stops master strike, but CCs aren't Interrupts.

 

Also Zen Strike is great. It improves your focus dump in both PVE and PVP and Master Strike is worth chaining with Leap root and Freezing Force for huge damage.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Onager

[RDeanOU]

I would normally have a short novel's worth to reply to all of the fail in this thread. But thankfully Capuchin and Marqhill (on my phone sorry if i spelled wrong) have done the work for me. One thing that I will add since no one seems to have specified in the correct way:

 

JUST BECAUSE A KNOCKBACK CAN INTERRUPT A MS DOES NOT CLASSIFY IT AS AN INTERRUPT, THATS WHY YOU'RE CALLING IT A KNOCKBACK INSTEAD OF AN INTERRUPT.

 

If you read what you already wrote, you will see how BW changed MS to be immune to interrupts. No where does it day knockbakc. We are also the oenly class with a channe wl that cant be interrupte withd. I might agree with your complaints about it if MS didnt hit for a ton of dmg and was hard to pull off, except that it hits for a ton and is easy to pull off.

 

This.

 

GarfieldJL doesn't have a clear understanding of how our class works and his posts are only serving to confuse anyone coming to this thread looking for information.

 

Capuchin and Marqhill are handling this one though. Other than to say that they are right and GarfieldJL is 100% wrong I don't feel like much needs to be added.

[JefferyClark]

Capuchin and Marqhill are handling this one though.

 

The same people who've been saying since launch (at least in Capuchin's case) that Guardians are fine, yet twice now BW has said that things aren't right (one in a post in January, and then again by basically revamping the AC).

 

1.2's changes tried to fix things, but our survivability and mobility are still seriously lacking, even when compared with the other tank classes. You have even mentioned it yourself -- unless you have all your tools/cd's available, you didn't have a chance against an Assassin/Shadow tank w/ dps mods 1v1. They tried moving things around and it gave us a band-aid, the problem is is that we're bleeding internally. We have a lot of *minor* things that are all causing issues. Are we completely broken? No, and we've said this for a while, but the bottom line is that we need major surgery to fix these multiple *minor* problems, otherwise, they will eventually overcome us and knock us out, because when you start adding many minor things on top of each other, it becomes a major issue. All these little things adding up are making Guardian _____ (insert role here) work 10 times harder to achieve the same results as any other _____ (insert same role here). That is making the class not fun - especially when any other tank or dps can do that job better.

Edited April 16, 2012 by JefferyClark

[RDeanOU]

The same people who've been saying since launch (at least in Capuchin's case) that Guardians are fine, yet twice now BW has said that things aren't right (one in a post in January, and then again by basically revamping the AC).

 

1.2's changes tried to fix things, but our survivability and mobility are still seriously lacking, even when compared with the other tank classes. You have even mentioned it yourself -- unless you have all your tools/cd's available, you didn't have a chance against an Assassin/Shadow tank w/ dps mods 1v1. They tried moving things around and it gave us a band-aid, the problem is is that we're bleeding internally. We have a lot of *minor* things that are all causing issues. Are we completely broken? No, and we've said this for a while, but the bottom line is that we need major surgery to fix these multiple *minor* problems, otherwise, they will eventually overcome us and knock us out, because when you start adding many minor things on top of each other, it becomes a major issue.

 

There is always room for improvement, but that doesn't mean that we haven't been "fine."

 

Saying we aren't okay means that you think we are broken. The class has been playable. It has been behind, but playable. I think 1.2 was definitely a buff. Might we still be behind some other classes? Sure.....maybe. That doesn't mean we need major surgery or that we are broken and saying that we are not fine means that we are broken.

 

So I guess I'm saying that I agree with Marqhill and Capuchin that our class is very viable right now.

 

Although, my post was in regards to them being factually correct in their criticisms of GarfieldJL's misinformation. I wasn't commenting on the state of the class as a whole as much as saying that they are factually correct and GarfieldJL is not.

[Teioh_White]

I do well enough Veng spec Jugg, and unlike my Pyro PT, if hutt ball comes up I can flip over to tank stance and run the ball with out a great deal of functionality loss. Pyro slapping on tank stance loses the majority of things that make him a Pyro, so I do like that about my Jugg a lot.

 

Still can't wreck face any where near what my Pyro can, having a 10m range with few 30m heavy hitters is over mostly 4m is a fairly big deal, and Jugg doesn't get a ton to make up for it. Pyro can still taunt, and does it better normally, as people always seem to focus on my Jugg when he's up in the business, while Pyro can normally skirt the edges of a brawl for a few GCD.

[Invictusthetaru]

The same people who've been saying since launch (at least in Capuchin's case) that Guardians are fine, yet twice now BW has said that things aren't right (one in a post in January, and then again by basically revamping the AC).

 

1.2's changes tried to fix things, but our survivability and mobility are still seriously lacking, even when compared with the other tank classes. You have even mentioned it yourself -- unless you have all your tools/cd's available, you didn't have a chance against an Assassin/Shadow tank w/ dps mods 1v1. They tried moving things around and it gave us a band-aid, the problem is is that we're bleeding internally. We have a lot of *minor* things that are all causing issues. Are we completely broken? No, and we've said this for a while, but the bottom line is that we need major surgery to fix these multiple *minor* problems, otherwise, they will eventually overcome us and knock us out, because when you start adding many minor things on top of each other, it becomes a major issue. All these little things adding up are making Guardian _____ (insert role here) work 10 times harder to achieve the same results as any other _____ (insert same role here). That is making the class not fun - especially when any other tank or dps can do that job better.

 

Because we ARE NOT A 1V1 CLASS!! Can assassins jump to a friendly target AND give them 20 percent dmg reduction? No. Can assassins peel you off a healer? Yes, but they have to leave their healers side to pull, we can stay close by and push.

 

We have different roles and uses. Assassins are good for guarding the nodes less people are on. Guardians are great at being at the node w/ a bunch of people. This isn't to say assassins can't shine in group settings, but we really aren't a 1v1 class.