Color crystals and the lore

[Darth_Solrac]

The EU backs up the fact that Dark Jedi use other colored sabers and same to Jedi. I think you meant Original Trilogy, which is set 3000 years after this game. That allows some divergence from what you believe to be the "right" way of doing things.

 

And as I said, its in your opinion that it isn't doing the Originals justice. I think its doing them more of a justice by elaborating on everyone's thoughts and wishes for other colors than just green, blue, and red.

 

Just because the constitution is stretched to incorporate new situations doesn't mean we've thrown it out entirely. Same thing with the game.

 

And if nothing else, this is for entertainment. People are much more entertained with a variety of colors and more choices rather than being halted by restrictions that even George Lucas says are not real. Lore explains why Red, Blue, and Green were the only colors during the Originals, and why its possible for other colors to exist now.

 

Everyone has a right to play the way they want, especially when there is nothing lore-wise stating otherwise.

 

By EU I mean anything expanding outside the TOR universe & timeline, so yes, OT indeed. This is where this 'freedom' ***** on the feel, history, etc. of said EU. Dark Jedi have ONLY EVER used purple & red that I've seen.

[DaveMallonee]

I agree 100%

 

If they made another Star Wars movie and the Sith all used a rainbow of colors I guarantee you the audience would freak out, you guys are forcing your justification on us because there is no written rules for saber crystal colors and some goofy Star Wars novel here or there may have had a contradiction to the norm.

 

I grew up with Star Wars (37), saw the original trilogy in the theatres, had all the toys (btw, NEVER saw a toy figure Sith with a non red saber, or a Jedi with a red), and yes the prequels had some contradictions to the norm color wise, but that was basically Samuel Jackson demanding he have purple for his saber.

 

Sith red, Guardian blue, Consular green, Sentinel yellow, not hard to figure out.

 

Why not have WW2 toys of US soldiers have Nazi colors and symbols on them, or have the germans wears the US green lol, were does all this end?

 

I don't care about a novel here or there with some crazy author who wanted to break all the rules, your justifications are weak, your arguments shallow.

 

No true Star Wars fan would support this stuff.

 

Bioware has blended the factions into a hodgepodge mess. Pretty soon there will be no point in having Imperial and Republic since the races and equipment and powers/abilities will all be blended together with the Legacy system.

 

The Legacy system was a good idea for getting peeps to reroll new toons, but a BAD idea for the Star Wars lore, in a year everything will be so mixed up there will be little point to having 2 factions at all at this rate.

 

 

While I would like to go through your post point by point and explain all the ways that I feel you are wrong it isn't important enough to me to invest the time it would take to do that properly. But as a 35 year old Star Wars fan who remembers Empire as the first movie I ever saw in a theater, who also had all the toys as well as the Marvel Comics and rediscovered a love of Star Wars as a teenager when Timothy Zahn wrote Heir to the Empire I take personal offense at you defining a true Star Wars fan in a way that excludes me and anyone else who has enjoyed portions of the Expanded Universe.

 

By the way, the Guardian Blue, Consular Green, Sentinel yellow thing originated with the first KOTOR as a way to distinguish between 3 different types of Jedi Knights, was only ever really explored (that I know of) in the tabletop RPG material related to that era, and is at least as weak and shallow an argument for why certain people should have certain colors as any "goofy Star Wars" novel written by some "crazy author who wanted to break all the rules."

 

Furthermore the delineation between the three types of Jedi Knight using the three colors you associate with them from KOTOR does not carry over to SWTOR very well and is therefore much less simple then you seem to realize. Instead of three types of Jedi Knight we have 2 kinds of Jedi which are then divided between two specializations. Consulars aren't Jedi Knights anymore, they are a separate and equal type of jedi complete with their own two specializations. Shouldn't we therefore have 4 colors instead of three, one for each advanced class? Because if Sentinels carry yellow and guardians carry blue why should Sages and Shadows both carry green? And if one gets green and the other gets some other color is the one with green more of a Consular because of it? Or maybe one color for each class and just force the Sentinels to give up yellow and carry blue like the Guardians? Fans of KOTOR who play SWTOR and have yellow lightsabers might not enjoy that but it shouldn't matter because by your definition they aren't true Star wars fans, right?

 

The truth is that because George Lucas designed (retconned actually) Star Wars to have different layers of official canon we as fans are empowered to choose our own interpretation of Star Wars based on which stories we like and enjoy. The lore is like a pool that different people choose to swim in at different depths. Just because we choose to swim at different depths doesn't mean either of us is or is not a true Star Wars fan. We already demonstrated that we were that by choosing to swim in the pool at all. That being the case I believe that if we all like swimming in the same pool of Star Wars lore we should at least respect the different depths that other people swim at.

 

You don't have to like or agree with the existence of my orange bladed dark side Sentinel, you can even tell me why you feel the way you do, but the fact that I disagree with you should have no correlation with whether or not either of us is a True Star Wars fan. A true Star Wars fan, IMHO, is simply someone who enjoys the universe because it connects with them in some personal way. And anyone playing SWTOR or posting in the message boards dedicated to it probably meets that criteria.

[DeutschGamer]

Red is a common theme, it doesn't make it the rule.

 

Ulic Qel Droma and Exar Kun for example used sabers that were not red or purple. They are the ones I'm most familiar with, but I'm sure there are more.

 

Jedi who have fallen from the light just as often continue using their old color rather than switch to red, but some do switch to red. It makes neither right or wrong to use. I'm sure you could say the same to Sith who have come to the light.

[WingedRayeth]

My fear is this may only be the beginning, that Bioware may have opened a Pandora's Box and the lore of the factions will suffer, the crystals were only the beginning, the Legacy system is interesting in concept, but so much of it just feels wrong, it's blurring the lines between the factions and races.

 

You know, if you don't like it, you don't HAVE to play the game, no one is forcing you to pony up the $15 a month. As well, no one is forcing you to accept this game as being cannon. If you want to live in a box where the Original Trilogy is all that matters, that is fine, you are free to have your own opinion. As for me, I want neon purple sabers with blue cores, so I can have something cool to go clubbing with.

[Captain_Zone]

Wow, you are so nerdy it's embarrasing to read. Mace Mutha****in Windu. You know it Samuel L Jackson right?

 

Go someplace else if you don't like it. You're free to leave anytime you want.

 

Proud to be a nerd, and I make damn good money at it. Chew on that for a while, bro.

 

Also, it's a given that it's Sam Jackson. Herp Derp!! Why do you think I put the "mutha****in'" part in there? It's his catch phrase.

[Belpheghor]

Yes, & they were WRONG to do so. Tradition is tradition for a right reason here. Firstly, TCW is mostly for kids, more geared to them. So they wouldn't know or even care why/how HE LOOKED RIDICULOUS using Ventress' saber. On Master Windu, Vaapad is mostly a DARK SIDE lightsaber combat style. This is common knowledge. Windu also has darkness in himself, also kinda obvious. It's said that 2 other masters tried to master that style, & fell to the Dark Side in the process. It speaks to the fact that Windu was 1 of the greatest Jedi Masters ever in that he managed to master it without falling & containing said darkness within him. Hence purple really being a Sith/Dark Side color, overall.

 

The color alignment system needs to be stricter, as soon as Dark/Light I are hit, you shouldn't be allowed to use the opposing order's colors. Sith use red & purple, those are already 2 of the best anyway, we don't need anymore.

 

Also, pretty sure Kun used blue only till he fell & became Sith. If not, then he deserved his fate even more, failure, & death. Blurring the lines like that discredits the whole SW franchise frankly.

 

Call me a traditionalist here, don't bother me.

 

Agree 1000% and it's good to see another person here with respect for tradition.

[Belpheghor]

Just because a dumb precedence has been set by the Star Wars EU doesn't make it right, IMO. If so, thanks to the Star Wars Christmas Special, Chewbacca has a father named Itchy and a son named Lumpy. There have been Star Wars EU that further expanded on the stuff introduced from the Christmas Special.

 

Sith with non-Red sabers goes flying in the traditional sense established by the look, feel, and theme of the movies just as much as Chewie having a son named Lumpy and his dad called Itchy. It's just wrong.

 

It is wrong, morally and ethically.

[Belpheghor]

While I would like to go through your post point by point and explain all the ways that I feel you are wrong it isn't important enough to me to invest the time it would take to do that properly. But as a 35 year old Star Wars fan who remembers Empire as the first movie I ever saw in a theater, who also had all the toys as well as the Marvel Comics and rediscovered a love of Star Wars as a teenager when Timothy Zahn wrote Heir to the Empire I take personal offense at you defining a true Star Wars fan in a way that excludes me and anyone else who has enjoyed portions of the Expanded Universe.

 

By the way, the Guardian Blue, Consular Green, Sentinel yellow thing originated with the first KOTOR as a way to distinguish between 3 different types of Jedi Knights, was only ever really explored (that I know of) in the tabletop RPG material related to that era, and is at least as weak and shallow an argument for why certain people should have certain colors as any "goofy Star Wars" novel written by some "crazy author who wanted to break all the rules."

 

Furthermore the delineation between the three types of Jedi Knight using the three colors you associate with them from KOTOR does not carry over to SWTOR very well and is therefore much less simple then you seem to realize. Instead of three types of Jedi Knight we have 2 kinds of Jedi which are then divided between two specializations. Consulars aren't Jedi Knights anymore, they are a separate and equal type of jedi complete with their own two specializations. Shouldn't we therefore have 4 colors instead of three, one for each advanced class? Because if Sentinels carry yellow and guardians carry blue why should Sages and Shadows both carry green? And if one gets green and the other gets some other color is the one with green more of a Consular because of it? Or maybe one color for each class and just force the Sentinels to give up yellow and carry blue like the Guardians? Fans of KOTOR who play SWTOR and have yellow lightsabers might not enjoy that but it shouldn't matter because by your definition they aren't true Star wars fans, right?

 

The truth is that because George Lucas designed (retconned actually) Star Wars to have different layers of official canon we as fans are empowered to choose our own interpretation of Star Wars based on which stories we like and enjoy. The lore is like a pool that different people choose to swim in at different depths. Just because we choose to swim at different depths doesn't mean either of us is or is not a true Star Wars fan. We already demonstrated that we were that by choosing to swim in the pool at all. That being the case I believe that if we all like swimming in the same pool of Star Wars lore we should at least respect the different depths that other people swim at.

 

You don't have to like or agree with the existence of my orange bladed dark side Sentinel, you can even tell me why you feel the way you do, but the fact that I disagree with you should have no correlation with whether or not either of us is a True Star Wars fan. A true Star Wars fan, IMHO, is simply someone who enjoys the universe because it connects with them in some personal way. And anyone playing SWTOR or posting in the message boards dedicated to it probably meets that criteria.

 

Such an odd point to try and make isn't it, to say that KOTOR, the FOUNDATION of this MMO states that Blue=Guardian, Green=Consular, Yellow=Sentinel, Red=Sith and these do not apply to SWTOR in any way?? Are you mad?

 

If your first movie was Empire I'm happy for you, indeed, I agree and have a similar background, my first movie was episode IV so our beginnings were similiar, but that's about it I'd say.

 

And yes, the RPGs I've played also structure the colors and roles in a similar fashion.

 

The blade color identifies the role of it's user, so why on earth would we mix all the colors up into a chaotic hodgepodge where each faction's spacefleet looks and feels like a rainbow of nonsense, there is no rhyme or reason, no logic, just pure, selfish, silly vanity without purpose.

 

Restrictions need to be made, a set of colors needs to be set up for each faction, so there will be NO mixing of colors between the 2. I should be able to tell by the blade color alone which faction someone is on, divisions are necesarry for the lore.

 

Stop trying to justify this silly vanity by saying this isn't the movies and rules don't apply, if the very game that STARTED this MMO had colors for different roles and common sense restrictions, why shouldn't this game as well?

[ScarletBlaze]

Such an odd point to try and make isn't it, to say that KOTOR, the FOUNDATION of this MMO states that Blue=Guardian, Green=Consular, Yellow=Sentinel, Red=Sith and these do not apply to SWTOR in any way?? Are you mad?

 

If your first movie was Empire I'm happy for you, indeed, I agree and have a similar background, my first movie was episode IV so our beginnings were similiar, but that's about it I'd say.

 

And yes, the RPGs I've played also structure the colors and roles in a similar fashion.

 

The blade color identifies the role of it's user, so why on earth would we mix all the colors up into a chaotic hodgepodge where each faction's spacefleet looks and feels like a rainbow of nonsense, there is no rhyme or reason, no logic, just pure, selfish, silly vanity without purpose.

 

Restrictions need to be made, a set of colors needs to be set up for each faction, so there will be NO mixing of colors between the 2. I should be able to tell by the blade color alone which faction someone is on, divisions are necesarry for the lore.

 

Stop trying to justify this silly vanity by saying this isn't the movies and rules don't apply, if the very game that STARTED this MMO had colors for different roles and common sense restrictions, why shouldn't this game as well?

 

I play a Shadow and I don't use a green one. Atm I'm using the pre-order one. I would rather use a Silver one. So judging my blade by my color you would not be able to do.

 

On all my rp it is known I use a silver one. Even my background is such.

[zuile]

I like being able to use any saber colour the restrictions were annoying and just limited player fun except for uptight canon obsessed control freaks I suppose, but overall you guys are few in number so it doesn't matter.

[Velaran]

This isn't difficult. If my Warrior wants to put a blue bloody crystal in his lightsaber, there is no good reason why he shouldn't.

[DeutschGamer]

This isn't difficult. If my Warrior wants to put a blue bloody crystal in his lightsaber, there is no good reason why he shouldn't.

 

Oh but silly, you would look absolutely atrocious. Look at this pretty red one, or this pretty red one it is so much better looking for you. -Random Sith Crystal Salesman.

[Velaran]

Oh but silly, you would look absolutely atrocious. Look at this pretty red one, or this pretty red one it is so much better looking for you. -Random Sith Crystal Salesman.

 

Sadly sir, I already happen to be using a red lightsaber, so no sale.

 

Edit: Two, actually.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Velaran

[WingedRayeth]

Stop trying to justify this silly vanity by saying this isn't the movies and rules don't apply, if the very game that STARTED this MMO had colors for different roles and common sense restrictions, why shouldn't this game as well?

 

 

You do know that KOTOR started you off with a class specific color saber, but you could slot any color you wanted after you found the appropriate crystal right? In much the same way, you start with a class specific saber in SWTOR, but once you find another color crystal, you can do what you want. Just thought I'd point that out. KOTOR had no class/alignment restrictions on saber color other than what you initially started with.

Edited April 16, 2012 by WingedRayeth

[Captain_Zone]

Ahhh, the self-righteous QQing from all the traddies... Now that's just good TV.

 

 

The color/alignment restrictions aren't coming back. Deal with it.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[Angel_of_Cain]

This again? oh well, i'll bite:D

 

By EU I mean anything expanding outside the TOR universe & timeline, so yes, OT indeed. This is where this 'freedom' ***** on the feel, history, etc. of said EU. Dark Jedi have ONLY EVER used purple & red that I've seen.

 

Actually, Vader's original (pre-re-release) Lightsaber color was orange in EP IV before they switched it to red.

[Rayla_Felana]

The only reason the Sith even used red lightsaber crystals was because they were the only ones originally available to them in the Horuset system, the Jedi used blue and green predominantly and to a lesser extent Yellow, because they were the most common back on Tython.

 

Black lightsabers should be our true enemy, F U The Farce Unleashed, F U.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[ShawnTheWeirdo]

where's my red and white striped lightsaber, i want to beat someone with a candy cane

[Rayla_Felana]

where's my red and white striped lightsaber, i want to beat someone with a candy cane

 

Lol. +1 to you good Ser.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Captain_Zone]

where's my red and white striped lightsaber, i want to beat someone with a candy cane

 

^Gets my vote for Best Post On This Thread. +1

[G_Vega]

The Clone Wars: Obi Wan uses Ventress' Red Light Saber http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w4HPXa8BxQ

 

Anakin uses a Blue Light Saber to Wipe out Tusken Raider settlement

 

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/5/5f/Anakin_Vengeance.jpg

 

Anakin as the New Darth Vader Fights Obi Wan using a Blue light saber

 

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091201143805/starwars/images/a/a6/Anakin_vs_Obiwan.jpg

 

A still heroic Anakin cuts off Dooku's head using a red and a blue saber (wouldn't be able to do that)

 

http://mimg.ugo.com/201006/46452/cuts/dookuvsanakin3_288x288.jpg

 

 

Anakin wipes out the Jedi Temple using a blue saber.

 

in Return of the Jedi, Vader says to Luke, I see that you have constructed a new light saber, and activates the green saber (In this game, he wouldn't be able to do that)

 

Han Solo uses Lukes light saber on Hoth(in this game he can't do that).

 

Time to let the crystal fight go to bed.

[Angel_of_Cain]

Any news on brown lightsabers?

[testszag]

Just because a dumb precedence has been set by the Star Wars EU doesn't make it right, IMO. If so, thanks to the Star Wars Christmas Special, Chewbacca has a father named Itchy and a son named Lumpy. There have been Star Wars EU that further expanded on the stuff introduced from the Christmas Special.

 

Sith with non-Red sabers goes flying in the traditional sense established by the look, feel, and theme of the movies just as much as Chewie having a son named Lumpy and his dad called Itchy. It's just wrong.

 

you know what else we got out of that christmas special?

 

how about the most famous bounty hunter in the movies:

 

The Holiday Special features the first appearance of bounty hunter Boba Fett, in an 11-minute animated sequence, and the first reference to Kashyyyk.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Eu

 

fact is, crystal color is a choice, get over it.

[Captain_Zone]

Any news on brown lightsabers?

 

Not that I know of, but I wants me a POODOO SABER OF DOOM!!!

[Belpheghor]

This isn't difficult. If my Warrior wants to put a blue bloody crystal in his lightsaber, there is no good reason why he shouldn't.

 

Actually, there bloody is. You're a Sith and a part of the Imperial army are you not? Would a US soilder in WWII put on a gestapo, Nazi uniform just because he feels it's his "choice" and it looks "cool"? No.

 

Your blade color helps to identify your role and faction, it helps to create order, without order there is chaos.....and FREEDOM without restrictions will ultimately lead to anarchy and collapse.

 

Wierd how you don't throw a fit about the npcs in the game wearing the proper uniforms and using the proper saber crystals, I'm actually surprised you kids don't call for all the Jedi npcs to have red sabers and the Sith to use green with bright shiny sparkles.

 

End point is Bioware caved in and SOLD OUT the lore to make a buck, but personally I'd rather have lost the subs of those who wanted this nonsense and had a smaller, yet saner game population.