Color crystals and the lore

[Belpheghor]

And there are also Force users on BOTH sides that use Orange and Yellow Lightsabers. Don't forget them.

 

Neither are traditional colors in the canon, yellow is Sentinel in the original KoToR and in some RPGs, but it's not core canon, so frankly I could care less.

 

The ONLY colors that shouldn't be mixed up are the canon colors, red, blue and green. There are a million and one (and counting) colors Bioware is adding to this game (like Magenta) so why can't the core canon colors remain with restrictions?

 

Bioware has already given TONS of colors for customization, but that's not enough for you guys, next you'll want to wear the gear of the opposing faction and fly their ships, cause "I WANNA".

[Ranadiel_Marius]

NO, you guys are making up your own rules and using a few exceptions in the EU to justify it. The EU ISN'T canon either btw, Lucas officially said he doesn't view it as such, he considers it "seperate".

 

Just because this is an MMO doesn't mean everyone should suddenly get to invert the universe and do whatever they want to, whenever they want it.

 

Hey guess what the game is part of the EU, so by your logic the game exists outside of canon and therefore can do whatever the hell it wants since it won't become canon! Quick someone inform the devs of this so we can get rainbow crystals, pure black crystals, and lightkatars!

[Rhudian]

You're never going to sell the idea that colors should be absolutely restricted and unusable by the traditionally opposing alignment. Heck, I'm kinda miffed that my consular can't pick up a blaster and use it to prove that he's a miserably poor shot.

 

What you've got to sell instead is the idea of using the traditional alignment provides bonuses to the player, without taking away any of their current pride and happiness.

 

Your +41 power blue crystal being +42-46 for Light I-Light V isn't so large a difference that people will get kicked out of groups for using the wrong color, but it would get min-maxers to use crystals attuned to their alignment.

 

You could take it one step further and say black-core crystals don't attune to any alignment at all. And maybe make purple, yellow, and orange give bonuses based on how close to neutral a character is, as opposed to the more polar alignments. Or make the bonuses hinge on the distance from Light I, Neutral, and Dark I.

 

The point is this: give people an almost meaningless incentive, and they'll gravitate towards it. Deny them an opportunity to break from the crowd, and they'll only want to tear off your privates and feed them to you.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Rhudian

[DeutschGamer]

Your argument has been defeated many times over on previous pages, bumping the thread and starting fresh changes nothing.

[VanorDM]

Your argument has been defeated many times over on previous pages...

 

He'll never admit to that. Every case, every bit of lore, every argument made simply doesn't matter to him unless it somehow agrees with his current opinion on how things should go.

 

He even seems to think that the playerbase should have some say over what color you use, because only people who have "earned it" should be able to break with tradition.

 

Debating this issue with him is not much different then beating your head against a brick wall, expect that hurts less.

 

Any lore that proves him wrong, does not count. Any argument counter to his opinion is invalid. He is not interested in a discussion all he wants to do is proselytize his opinion.

[Wolfninjajedi]

28 pages later....

[Angel_of_Cain]

Actually, the Jabba's Sail Barge and Sarlacc scene was filmed by Yuma, AZ.

 

Did they take the 3:10 to get there?

[Velaran]

NO, you guys are making up your own rules and using a few exceptions in the EU to justify it. The EU ISN'T canon either btw, Lucas officially said he doesn't view it as such, he considers it "seperate".

 

Just because this is an MMO doesn't mean everyone should suddenly get to invert the universe and do whatever they want to, whenever they want it.

 

This makes no gosh darned sense, and you know it.

 

If this universe isn't canon to Lucas, or the movies, then we should be able to do whatever the Hell we want.

 

Edit: Huh. It auto-edited that "gosh darned" into my post.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Velaran

[Captain_Zone]

Did they take the 3:10 to get there?

 

They were on it with Christian Bale and Russell Crowe.

[VanorDM]

The EU ISN'T canon either btw, Lucas officially said he doesn't view it as such, he considers it "seperate".

 

If that is true, and he did in fact say that. Then anything that happened in the movies doesn't matter and has no more weight in terms of what we should or should not do then anything else.

 

Because based on Lucas' statement then everything in SWTOR is part of the EU and as such is separate from the movie lore. So in this case the only thing that counts is EU lore.

[Kilikaa]

What the kriffing hell?!?! This thread isn't dead? Dude, you lost the argument, let it go. Lore is not being broken. You have been proven wrong many times over. Just let it go and move on.

[EicyLightrider]

Every example anyone has brought up are from the novels, but the vast majority of the player base basically knows Star Wars from the films and TV shows.

 

Sure, there is no going back I know, Bioware has already caved into this and I doubt they'd risk losing even more subs putting back restrictions, just voicing an opinion.

 

There is no "debunking", I've read the novels, but imho true canon is the films, what Lucas himself made. There are lots of novels and RPGs that have some pretty bizarre stuff that differs from the movies and that's fine, creative license I suppose and all, but it simply feels out of place to see sooooooooooo many Sith using green/blue and Jedi with red, such a thing should be a RARITY, NOT THE NORM!!!!

 

If you're right, why didn't Bioware make their first game cinematic "sacking of coruscant" have the Sith appear from their shuttle with a rainbow of colors and the Jedi pop out all manner of colors as well???

 

In fact, no Bioware cinematic or game video/picture EVER has a Sith with a non red/purple blade from what I've seen, didn't they make the game??

 

All I'm trying to do is keep the proper order, some semblance of sanity here. It may be "fun" for some to turn everything upside down and inverted for kicks which is why I'm sure most do it, to be cute and all, but it's wrong and Bioware shouldn't have ever allowed it to begin with.

 

Don't know where you guys get off saying how the novels are canon, don't think Lucas wrote 'em., sorry.

 

It has been cited, examples like Exar Kun with his blue saber are EXCEPTIONS to the rule, they AREN'T the rule, nor the norm. Do ANY of the Sith npcs in SWToR have green or blue lightsabers???? Any??? Can't remember one.

 

Do any of the Jedi npcs have RED lightsabers? It's not Lucas arts or Bioware that want this, it YOU GUYS, you're writing your own canon basically.

 

You do know that the novels are considered canon right?

[EicyLightrider]

You're missing the whole point, everyone keeps giving the "It's the Old Republic Era so I can do what I want to" excuse, but again, I ask you, do you EVER see ANY of the Sith npcs in the game using non red/purple sabers????

 

But, but, it's the Old Republic Era right? Shouldn't they have a virtual RAINBOW of colors?

 

EVERY Sith npc in this IS "waiving a banner that says "here I am, whoops, i guess im evil and all"", what game are you playing? Every Sith npc I come into contact with from Darth Malgus on down is basically using the traditional Sith colors.....but that's not until "4000" years later right?????

 

NO, you guys are making up your own rules and using a few exceptions in the EU to justify it. The EU ISN'T canon either btw, Lucas officially said he doesn't view it as such, he considers it "seperate".

 

Just because this is an MMO doesn't mean everyone should suddenly get to invert the universe and do whatever they want to, whenever they want it.

 

You do know that half of the jedi i mentioned earlier in the thread are from the movies? One master Jedi uses a crimson red saber, another uses an orange one, windu uses purple. Stop trying to force your reasoning on people. I hardly see anyone here agreeing with you, what does that say?

[EicyLightrider]

Hey guess what the game is part of the EU, so by your logic the game exists outside of canon and therefore can do whatever the hell it wants since it won't become canon! Quick someone inform the devs of this so we can get rainbow crystals, pure black crystals, and lightkatars!

 

You win

[Angel_of_Cain]

Hey guess what the game is part of the EU, so by your logic the game exists outside of canon and therefore can do whatever the hell it wants since it won't become canon! Quick someone inform the devs of this so we can get rainbow crystals, pure black crystals, and lightkatars!

 

You forgot white and red sabers (candy canes!!!!!) and Brown sabers (use your imagination:D)

[Captain_Zone]

You forgot white and red sabers (candy canes!!!!!) and Brown sabers (use your imagination:D)

 

I still want the POODOO SABER OF DOOM!!!!

 

EDIT: As someone once said, a Brown Lightsaber is the ultimate, since it cares not for fashion, and shows that the fighter is truely serious. I believe the exact quote is: "This ain't no fashion show. You're goin' down, son!"

Edited May 12, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[Ranadiel_Marius]

You forgot white and red sabers (candy canes!!!!!) and Brown sabers (use your imagination:D)

 

I also forgot the most powerful of all lightsaber crystals, that's right the almighty PLAID CRYSTAL!!!

[Belpheghor]

What the kriffing hell?!?! This thread isn't dead? Dude, you lost the argument, let it go. Lore is not being broken. You have been proven wrong many times over. Just let it go and move on.

 

I could "move on", and I've tried, but every time I see Sith with green and blue sabers my blood pressure rises.

 

The WoW kids have ruined this game, Bioware had sensible alignment restrictions in place and the whiners QQ'd until they removed them, that's the sad reality.

 

I'm mad because Bioware doesn't have the backbone to stick with what's right, they HAD it more or less right and screwed it all in fear or losing some subs, period.

 

Bioware has failed so hard in this game, they have screwed up the lore with non alignment crystals and even worse with the Legacy system, blending the factions together in a hodgepodge in order to get peeps to constantly reroll since there is little endgame in this MMO.

 

What they SHOULD do is merge servers, allow free transfers like Rift did (but it's EA so likely no, they will be paid), set up cross server warzones, cross server LFG for Flashpoints/Operations and set reasonable restrictions that DON'T break traditional lore.

 

edit: Since Mythic is a part of this game, would be nice to see some RvR for the factions to fight one another, assuming in a few months we'll even be able to tell them apart with how Bioware is letting the kids mix everything up.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Belpheghor

[DeutschGamer]

I'm mad because Bioware doesn't have the backbone to stick with what's right, they HAD it more or less right and screwed it all in fear or losing some subs, period.

 

Right is subjective, and as others have pointed out on previous pages there is plenty of "right" for it to be non-alignment based.

 

Legacy was never meant to make lore, its called making a game mechanic so people can have fun. Same idea with black cores and such. ITS A GAME SO THEY NEED TO MAKE FUN THINGS THAT DON'T ALWAYS HAVE TO DO WITH CANON. Otherwise the game wouldn't sell well except for die hards like you who have to get out their lore rulebooks (which are flawed and don't apply here btw) to try and tell everyone else how to properly play the game.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Right is subjective, and as others have pointed out on previous pages there is plenty of "right" for it to be non-alignment based.

 

Legacy was never meant to make lore, its called making a game mechanic so people can have fun. Same idea with black cores and such. ITS A GAME SO THEY NEED TO MAKE FUN THINGS THAT DON'T ALWAYS HAVE TO DO WITH CANON. Otherwise the game wouldn't sell well except for die hards like you who have to get out their lore rulebooks (which are flawed and don't apply here btw) to try and tell everyone else how to properly play the game.

 

The OP isn't a "die hard" if the OP was, they would know there have been countless sources in SW lore showing that crystals were not alignment based nor were colors banned from any jedi/sith.

[DeutschGamer]

The OP isn't a "die hard" if the OP was, they would know there have been countless sources in SW lore showing that crystals were not alignment based nor were colors banned from any jedi/sith.

 

Good point. I was debating the use of traditionalist or die hard but felt the former had been used too often and that the latter was more suiting of his tenacity on the subject.

[Guildrum]

I'm mad because Bioware doesn't have the backbone to stick with what's right, they HAD it more or less right and screwed it all in fear or losing some subs, period.

 

Except it wasn't sensible. Tell me, should my trooper NOT be able to shoot red blaster shot because he's not a psychopathic jerk? Or if we align it based on faction, then he still cannot, and then if we do it by classes, then by that point it's ridiculous. Should then Troopers not be allowed to shoot yellow or blue crystals because those are "Jedi" colors? Obviously, you are not a fan of Sith using blue and green, so you want Bioware to change something that obviously, a lot of players are enjoying because you don't see it as "sensible" or "lore-abiding". If a Sith decided that he was going to troll the Jedi and put a green crystal into his saber, would the crystal scream at him and say, "You're too evil!" And roll into the great unknown?

 

No. It's a crystal. Deal with it. More variety = more fun in my view, and I know other players share that view.

[Captain_Zone]

The OP isn't a "die hard" if the OP was, they would know there have been countless sources in SW lore showing that crystals were not alignment based nor were colors banned from any jedi/sith.

 

^This. Traditionalists, or as I like to call them, "Traddies", are not die hards. Traddies go off the movies, and that's pretty much it. They MIGHT have read a few post-RotJ novels, but they know next to nothing of the Tales of the Jedi and other Old Republic ExU lore.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Except it wasn't sensible. Tell me, should my trooper NOT be able to shoot red blaster shot because he's not a psychopathic jerk? Or if we align it based on faction, then he still cannot, and then if we do it by classes, then by that point it's ridiculous. Should then Troopers not be allowed to shoot yellow or blue crystals because those are "Jedi" colors? Obviously, you are not a fan of Sith using blue and green, so you want Bioware to change something that obviously, a lot of players are enjoying because you don't see it as "sensible" or "lore-abiding". If a Sith decided that he was going to troll the Jedi and put a green crystal into his saber, would the crystal scream at him and say, "You're too evil!" And roll into the great unknown?

 

No. It's a crystal. Deal with it. More variety = more fun in my view, and I know other players share that view.

 

Lol the last part put a great image in my head.

 

Green Crystal: "You're too evil! I am not gonna help you, good day sir!"

 

*Crystal rolls away, while the jedi and sith watch it roll and then stare at one another awkwardly*

Edited May 12, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Kilikaa]

I could "move on", and I've tried, but every time I see Sith with green and blue sabers my blood pressure rises.

 

The WoW kids have ruined this game, Bioware had sensible alignment restrictions in place and the whiners QQ'd until they removed them, that's the sad reality.

 

I'm mad because Bioware doesn't have the backbone to stick with what's right, they HAD it more or less right and screwed it all in fear or losing some subs, period.

 

Bioware has failed so hard in this game, they have screwed up the lore with non alignment crystals and even worse with the Legacy system, blending the factions together in a hodgepodge in order to get peeps to constantly reroll since there is little endgame in this MMO.

 

What they SHOULD do is merge servers, allow free transfers like Rift did (but it's EA so likely no, they will be paid), set up cross server warzones, cross server LFG for Flashpoints/Operations and set reasonable restrictions that DON'T break traditional lore.

 

edit: Since Mythic is a part of this game, would be nice to see some RvR for the factions to fight one another, assuming in a few months we'll even be able to tell them apart with how Bioware is letting the kids mix everything up.

 

For the love of God! Free transfers are coming soon. The server selection will be limited however. Paid transfers will be implemented afterward. Those will be unrestricted. Bioware has NOT broken lore in any shape, way or form. Lore does not suppoet faction/alignment restriction. Crystal colors DO NOT blend factions together. Why can't you accept the fact that there is nothing lore breaking here and nothing to support your view?

 

If my Guardian wants a red crystal because it's my favorite color then I will use it. Nothing in the lore restricts me from doing so. Colors are NOT faction based. If you can't accept that lore is not being broken and factions are not being blurred then stop playing. I am 38 years old. I grew up on Star Wars. I see nothing wrong with what Bioware did by removing restrictions. They were stupid to begin with. For the record my Sorceror uses a magenta crystal as does my Shadow. My Jugg will use anything but red and my Guardian will use red since it is my gavorite color, so it will be hers as well.