The penalties for losing are TOO severe

[Varicite]

with the cost of the new gear and the low amount you get from losses, it could literally take years of playing hours every day to get the gear if you are losing a large % of games (which will be the case if you are a pug on the minority faction).

 

that is a huge problem. not for you, i'm sure. but for many people.

 

I assure you it will not take years before Rated WZs actually do come out and the "grind" everyone is complaining about gets cut in 1/3.

 

The current grind was designed to be supplemented by Rated WZ comms, which obviously don't exist right now.

 

I think it would be fine if they added an alternative method to gearing UNTIL RATED WZs COME OUT, and then go back to what we have now.

 

Yes, you'd still not get much for losing, but you would be getting more per win to balance it out.

 

By the way, I am always a pug, and while my faction isn't the "minority" since my server is balanced, my side loses far more often than they win.

[Krazed]

Enjoy your longer queue time.

[Darth-Malkaevian]

your post would only make sense if people are usually losing because they are not trying and that they would be winning if they try.

 

that is largely not the case. there are big gear, faction, and grouping imbalances, not to mention that any individual is just one of 8 players (ha, on my server, it was more like 1 of 4 people on my teams!).

 

because your premise is incorrect, the rest of your post is incorrect as well.

 

Actually my premise is not incorrect, the unavailability of players does not have an effect on my post as it is an outside source, rather then a function of the game itself.

 

In addition, if you have a small team due to people leaving, then again my post is still correct as it is the choice of the player to leave and thus not be a team player which causes you to loose.

 

So my post is entirely accurate. Logic, is not something you want to debate with me.

 

My suggestion to you is to find a guild with lots of pvpers in it, or a larger more populated server. Either will solve the issues you listed.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Darth-Malkaevian

[KhamonLightStar]

This is an interesting situation and at first I was completely against this updated version of the pvp comm system. I think the devs are onto a better concept with pvp but im going to point out the pros and cons from a lvl 50 stand point.

 

pros

___________

 

will encourage and motivate players to work more as a team to complete the objective and secure the win.

 

discourages solo types from just acting on their own accord for personell gain

 

will make players better in the long by teaching teamwork and rewarding those who go above normal ability as long as their team wins.

 

 

cons

____________

 

slows the underdog team from progressing due to lack of sufficiant rewards for runner up so to speak.

 

losing team will have members halfway through focusing on getting their three minimum medals so they dont walk away empty handed, secures defeat for themselves by getting side tracked from main objective which is to try to win as a team.

 

uneven teams due to late comers and slow pvp activity will not stay if their team is already losing and becomes extreamly counter productive when were trying to encourage more pvp especialy on the Soresu server ( Soresu FTW ).

 

 

all in all this hurts the pvp community and favors those who are better equipped as a team, it seems in my oppinion more powerfull pvp equipment > a well organised party or team in my book I see it fail everyday. I encourage devs to tweek this system slightly and definitely do away with minimum comm req. Comms are easy but with late commers to many will leave in the middle and re que for a chance at starting at the beginning.

 

Thanks for listining:)

[Bukker]

I been playing this game from the begining. I am on a very lopesided server. (empire)

I ve been playing pvp and have toons on both sides. So I see the difference. Empire wins about 90% of all warzones.

 

I played my republic side yesterday pvping. Did a total of three before I quit for good. All three we got trounced. I did fairly well on our team and still recieved little to no rewards. The last match I received zeros across the board. After sticking out the whole match. With many people quitting due to losing. I spent about 10 minutes in the match for zero rewards.(And yes I fought the whole time)

 

So the idea of pvping is out. They broke it badly. People are quitting warzones as soon as they think they may lose. Which leaves those of us who stick it out to get basicly spawn camped. Killed within seconds, with "0" rewards for my time spent in the warzone. repeatly killed and outnumbered. Thats not what I call fun. And yes the game must be fun to be played.

 

I like many other refuse to pvp now. In fact I have already cancelled my subscrip.

Way to really break the pvp game BW.

[Tchotchke]

Oh no, you got 10 less comms than half. 6k credits every 15 mins is nothing; go gather for 5 minutes and you can top that. Do 1 daily for 5 minutes and you'll get 4x that much.

 

Cry me a river.

 

 

Slow progression = Players have no fun in PvP

.

.

They stop PvPing

.

.

The eventually stop playing

.

.

They eventually stop subscribing

.

.

Fewer players = Fewer Warzone queues for remaining players

.

.

Fewer warzone queues = slower progression for remaining players

.

.

Slow progression = remaining players have no fun in PvP

.

.

They stop PvPing

.

.

All of this leads to game death.

 

 

Here's a political undertone for ya....

 

If the poor people leave, the rich people who remain aren't rich anymore. The only thing that makes them rich is the vast difference between them and the poor. Most of these people will leave for a place where the contrast can still exist.

 

The thing that is most confusing to me is that the people who should be most upset by these changes.... are the elite PvPers. The ones who win more often than lose. Without the casual player base, they don't progress either. They need the casual player base more than the casuals need them.

[Varicite]

Who's cry? Stop trying to defend a horrible game design.

 

I complete all dailies whenever I can. But that doesn't mean I will be a selfish human being like you, and not think about other people who only play this game to PvP.

 

I only play this game to PvP atm. It's pretty much all I do, and all I've done for months now.

 

I don't win all the time, and I definitely don't lose all the time. Maybe it's around 60/40, I dunno.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm in the same boat that most other people are, I just don't think it's terrible not to give the losers in a match hefty rewards.

 

They shouldn't be pretty much equal to winning, because then there is no incentive to win. You just play for whatever gets you the most comms, etc. Everyone has witnessed this.

 

I don't think that makes me selfish, I think it just makes winning more sweet.

[Jeopardydd]

I assure you it will not take years before Rated WZs actually do come out and the "grind" everyone is complaining about gets cut in 1/3.

 

The current grind was designed to be supplemented by Rated WZ comms, which obviously don't exist right now.

 

I think it would be fine if they added an alternative method to gearing UNTIL RATED WZs COME OUT, and then go back to what we have now.

 

Yes, you'd still not get much for losing, but you would be getting more per win to balance it out.

 

By the way, I am always a pug, and while my faction isn't the "minority" since my server is balanced, my side loses far more often than they win.

 

it sure can take years.

 

if you are usually getting between zero and 30 coms a match, have to wait for warzones to pop, etc, then it can certainly take that long.

 

people are reporting playing for 6 hours and ending up with a hundred coms.

[Varicite]

Truncated for length. Sorry : o

 

I don't honestly think that this is going to be the reason everyone leaves the game. There are plenty of other far better ones already. <.<

[PullinStuff]

and if you had lost said wf and got next to nothing for your attempts? what if you were on a faction that statistically lost a greater number of times and was then further reduced in it's capabilities to fight back?

 

Remember this is a game in which "we" are the consumers. If the majority of us arn't satisfied then we will leave. If enough of us leave, this game will fail.

Losing constantly do to circumstances that are beyond our control, ie~ our incompetent team mates, is not fun and we will leave as a result.

 

your post would only make sense if people are usually losing because they are not playing as a team and that they would be winning if they play better.

 

that is largely not the case. there are big gear, faction, and grouping imbalances, not to mention that any individual is just one of 8 players (ha, on my server, it was more like 1 of 4 people on my teams!).

 

because your premise is incorrect, the rest of your post is incorrect as well.

 

The both of you, I run with no special gear for PVP, I do not carry expertise bonuses, the gear is not the issue, it is the players in my observations...

 

My premise is not invalid by your Randian logic, as it is an observation of what has been happening in wz, based on the fact I am not decked in BM gear, run WZ without expertise. I am sorry no one on your server likes playing your faction, but that is not the problem, the problem is equality for equality's sake makes winning pointless. A participation trophy cheapens the win, especially when it equals the winners trophy.

 

And yes we are the consumers... if you are unhappy no one is forcing you to stay.

[Jeopardydd]

Actually my premise is not incorrect, the unavailability of players does not have an effect on my post as it is an outside source, rather then a function of the game itself.

 

In addition, if you have a small team due to people leaving, then again my post is still correct as it is the choice of the player to leave and thus not be a team player which causes you to loose.

 

So my post is entirely accurate. Logic, is not something you want to debate with me.

 

My suggestion to you is to find a guild with lots of pvpers in it, or a larger more populated server. Either will solve the issues you listed.

 

wrong. your premise is incorrect.

 

there are tons of reasons that people lose besides that they, personally, played badly, such as not having full teams, getting stuck on bad teams and being outgeared.

 

your premise is incorrect and your conclusions are therefore incorrect.

[Tchotchke]

I don't honestly think that this is going to be the reason everyone leaves the game. There are plenty of other far better ones already. <.<

 

True! Just wanted to make a point that it will be the reason for me hehe.

[Jeopardydd]

The both of you, I run with no special gear for PVP, I do not carry expertise bonuses, the gear is not the issue, it is the players in my observations...

 

My premise is not invalid by your Randian logic, as it is an observation of what has been happening in wz, based on the fact I am not decked in BM gear, run WZ without expertise. I am sorry no one on your server likes playing your faction, but that is not the problem, the problem is equality for equality's sake makes winning pointless. A participation trophy cheapens the win, especially when it equals the winners trophy.

 

And yes we are the consumers... if you are unhappy no one is forcing you to stay.

 

 

it not equality for equality's sake.

 

it is simply not practical to give certain people big disadvantages prior to stepping foot into the match.

 

they don't start chess matches with one side having both more pieces and better pieces. there's a good reason for that.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Jeopardydd

[Darth-Malkaevian]

This is an interesting situation and at first I was completely against this updated version of the pvp comm system. I think the devs are onto a better concept with pvp but im going to point out the pros and cons from a lvl 50 stand point.

 

pros

___________

 

will encourage and motivate players to work more as a team to complete the objective and secure the win.

 

discourages solo types from just acting on their own accord for personell gain

 

will make players better in the long by teaching teamwork and rewarding those who go above normal ability as long as their team wins.

 

 

cons

____________

 

slows the underdog team from progressing due to lack of sufficiant rewards for runner up so to speak.

 

losing team will have members halfway through focusing on getting their three minimum medals so they dont walk away empty handed, secures defeat for themselves by getting side tracked from main objective which is to try to win as a team.

 

uneven teams due to late comers and slow pvp activity will not stay if their team is already losing and becomes extreamly counter productive when were trying to encourage more pvp especialy on the Soresu server ( Soresu FTW ).

 

 

all in all this hurts the pvp community and favors those who are better equipped as a team, it seems in my oppinion more powerfull pvp equipment > a well organised party or team in my book I see it fail everyday. I encourage devs to tweek this system slightly and definitely do away with minimum comm req. Comms are easy but with late commers to many will leave in the middle and re que for a chance at starting at the beginning.

 

Thanks for listining:)

 

These are good points, but are easily solvable with the "Social" aspect:

 

1. * Join a guild where PvP team leaders are varied, and Skill is balanced on teams, so as to train new pvpers on how to play and win.

 

* Voice Coms.

 

* Community strategy.

 

All of those issues are completely resolvable without Bioware changing anything. The problem is players are lazy, want the easy way, this is messed up, fix it for me because I don't want to take the time to convo someone to help teach me about strategy, or how to better play the thing.

 

2. If the individuals focusing on only trying to get their individual 3 medals, these are the ones causing you to loose to begin with, I feel sorry that you were placed in a group with such individuals, but it happens. (See number 1).

 

3. Even if you start with a small team, you can still gain rewards if you put forth the effort, (I actually ended up being 1 v 4 yesterday and I still managed 40 Coms), so I know for a fact you can do it.

 

4. Eventually those without the team mentality will leave and those with the team mentality will stay, PvP will become fun and enjoyable, rather then a spam rush for coms.

 

I support this patch.

[TheronFett]

The game is no longer rewarding individuals who do not pull their own weight, if you can not learn how to gain medals and pull your own weight in a team game then you will not get rewarded.

 

Fail.

 

Re-read the post a few above yours. First Novare Coast match yesterday, I rake in 14 medals. Top damage, kills, and protection, on top of only a single death. But my team lost. Just barely, but we lost. My rewards for outperforming 15 other people? Jack squat.

 

Some guy on the other team got more comms and credits that I did, despite joining the match late, doing next to zero damage, less than 50k healing, and he died 7 times.

 

So, explain to me and the rest of the community how pulling your own weight is being properly rewarded in this game now?

Edited April 13, 2012 by TheronFett

[MattKay]

Its not broken its just set up to where you have to be more aggressive and work harder. I am not the best PVP player on this game nor do i want to be,but i am willing to work for all the cool gear,and I know i will get some kills along the way and I will be killed along the way its all part of the game,so get out there play some pvp and just enjoy the game.

[Darth-Malkaevian]

wrong. your premise is incorrect.

 

there are tons of reasons that people lose besides that they, personally, played badly, such as not having full teams, getting stuck on bad teams and being outgeared.

 

your premise is incorrect and your conclusions are therefore incorrect.

 

I believe my previous post covered the (NOT ENOUGH TEAM PLAYERS).

 

The game does not control how many people que for your sever, or whether or not a player leaves your game. This is the choice of the "PLAYER".

 

These are things Bioware has absolutely NO control over. Therefore my post is accurate.

[Jeopardydd]

I believe my previous post covered the (NOT ENOUGH TEAM PLAYERS).

 

The game does not control how many people que for your sever, or whether or not a player leaves your game. This is the choice of the "PLAYER".

 

These are things Bioware has absolutely NO control over. Therefore my post is accurate.

 

youa re claiming that it's any particular player's fault if not enough people on their side join warzones? seriously?

 

ok, now I've heard anything.

[Nosphuratu]

I am baffled by everyones posts here. You can tell everyone who is a premade player posting in this thread. Of course life is grand when your winning. Of course the patch is awsome when you have a group of consistant players you can hop on vent with and destroy an opposing pug team.

 

The bottom line is this;

 

No new/casual player is going to hop into wz's and be farmed for months. Ask all the new people who quit warhammer once they reached t4.

 

Below are all the reasons this current pvp system supports the above statement.

 

- Allowing premades vs pugs just causes players to be farmed (believe it or not there is more casual players then the hard core elites)

 

- The lack of rewards for losing defeats the purpose of queing for all of us poor slobs who are being farmed by you elite premades.

 

There is no ignoring these glaring issues. It has killed games in the past it will kill this game as well pvp wise that is. People play games for fun not to be frustrated and unhappy.

 

This is a mmo you need to appeal the game to everyone whether they suck or rock or are somewhere inbetween, as the fundamental concept to a MMO is a large PLAYER base.

 

Its unbelievable that even the rich get richer and the poor get poorer concept applies in mmo mentality these days. Flame all you want but anyone with an iq over 1 knows im right. heck ask any 5 year old kid and they will tell you the your elitist ideals are wrong.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Nosphuratu

[Darth-Malkaevian]

Fail.

 

Re-read the post a few above yours. First Novare Coast match yesterday, I rake in 14 medals. Top damage, kills, and protection, on top of only a single death. But my team lost. Just barely, but we lost. My rewards for outperforming 15 other people? Jack squat.

 

Some guy on the other team got more comms and credits that I did, despite joining the match late, doing next to zero damage, less than 50k healing, and he died 7 times.

 

So, explain to me and the rest of the community how pulling your own weight is being properly rewarded in this game now?

 

You dont seem to get that it is not about "YOU" and what YOU did. It's about what YOU did FOR your TEAM, pursuant to the OBJECTIVE.

 

You can get 20 medals and top the kill board in all stats and areas, but if you did it without bothering to focus on helping your team complete the objective, the game isn't going to reward you much. (And yes I realize many players do not understand the simplistic differences in your actions for such to occur, this is ok).

 

I loose many battles and always come out with 5-12 medals, and about 59 - 65 Coms. If you are getting less then that it's not the game, it's simply "YOU".

[Darth-Malkaevian]

youa re claiming that it's any particular player's fault if not enough people on their side join warzones? seriously?

 

ok, now I've heard anything.

 

No I am simply claiming that it is not BIOWARES or the GAMES, fault that your server is not populated. It is in fact No ones fault. People will either choose to play or not.

 

Move servers as I said before and you wont have that issue as much.

 

Hell come to Jung-Ma, this thing is packed. I never run into an issue with there not being enough people for PvP.

[PullinStuff]

Fail.

 

Re-read the post a few above yours. First Novare Coast match yesterday, I rake in 14 medals. Top damage, kills, and protection, on top of only a single death. But my team lost. Just barely, but we lost. My rewards for outperforming 15 other people? Jack squat.

 

Some guy on the other team got more comms and credits that I did, despite joining the match late, doing next to zero damage, less than 50k healing, and he died 7 times.

 

So, explain to me and the rest of the community how pulling your own weight is being properly rewarded in this game now?

 

I want to see a screenie with this information...

 

Until then I am going to assume you are full of ****.

 

How about a video? I am sure it will be a video of you owning a bunch of people that are NOT anywhere near an objective....

 

This is my experience with superstars like yourself, great you can get top damage, too bad the objective is not to do more damage to the other team, for that you want open pvp.

[Darth-Malkaevian]

I am baffled by everyones posts here. You can tell everyone who is a premade player posting in this thread. Of course life is grand when your winning. Of course the patch is awsome when you have a group of consistant players you can hop on vent with and destroy an opposing pug team.

 

The bottom line is this;

 

No new/casual player is going to hop into wz's and be farmed for months. Ask all the new people who quit warhammer once they reached t4.

 

Below are all the reasons this current pvp system supports the above statement.

 

- Allowing premades vs pugs just causes players to be farmed (believe it or not there is more casual players then the hard core elites)

 

- The lack of rewards for losing defeats the purpose of queing for all of us poor slobs who are being farmed by you elite premades.

 

There is no ignoring these glaring issues. It has killed games in the past it will kill this game as well pvp wise that is. People play games for fun not to be frustrated and unhappy.

 

This is a mmo you need to appeal the game to everyone whether they suck or rock or are somewhere inbetween, as the fundamental concept to a MMO is a large PLAYER base.

 

Its unbelievable that even the rich get richer and the poor get poorer concept applies in mmo mentality these days. Flame all you want but anyone with an iq over 1 knows im right. heck ask any 5 year old kid and they will tell you the your elitist ideals are wrong.

 

I am in a Guild of 1.. Me. I solo que and Never run in a pre-made. Just so you know my posts come from some random guy with a casual life and play style who pvps and solo ques for "fun".

[Darth-Malkaevian]

I'll take a screenshot of the rewards for loosing at the end of the next PvP match when the servers come up and Post it so everyone can see it. (I dont have fraps.. need to get it at some point though...on my list of things to do) Edited April 13, 2012 by Darth-Malkaevian

[Naserick]

The both of you, I run with no special gear for PVP, I do not carry expertise bonuses, the gear is not the issue, it is the players in my observations...

 

My premise is not invalid by your Randian logic, as it is an observation of what has been happening in wz, based on the fact I am not decked in BM gear, run WZ without expertise. I am sorry no one on your server likes playing your faction, but that is not the problem, the problem is equality for equality's sake makes winning pointless. A participation trophy cheapens the win, especially when it equals the winners trophy.

 

And yes we are the consumers... if you are unhappy no one is forcing you to stay.

 

I play this game to pvp. I play some pve content as well but it normally isn't very exciting in my opinion. I wouldn't mind not getting anything for losing except that it gives the winners more of an advantage towards winning the next match. If they simply gave everyone the same gear rating I would be more than willing to suck it up heh. But that is not the case. Every match my opponent wins it makes it more difficult for me to compete in the next match.

If this were a sport, as they seem to be trying for, Then this should be unacceptable. After all this isn't an open world pvp game like eve online, where imbalance between factions is to be expected and even encouraged. This games pvp is more equatable to football or Baseball. Where both teams optimally have the same amount of players. One team may have more talent which will lead them to win more often, but they certainly don't get better equipment that increases their capabilities.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Naserick