WoWers, you're ruining this game

[tonysnod]

I'd like to suggest something that's going to get me murdered.

 

The WoW veterans are ruining Star Wars: The Old Republic.

 

Yes, this is my first MMO. Despite that, I've managed to level a War Hero INQ Sorcerer.

 

1) I had to google for a guide to read the forums (QQ, QFT?). Is typing really that difficult for you all? It's like playing mad-libs.

 

2) With my handy translation guide, I've been reading the forums. Sadly, the developers are reading them, too. Hence the rushed glitched/crashing 1.1 patch, and now the nerfing of classes in 1.2... The developers are reacting to YOU guys. This is my 6th-7th post ever?

 

3) This is speculative, but I'm willing to bet the majority of the player-base are not WoW veterans and do NOT post in the forums. These are arbitrary values, but SWTOR is changing radically because 10% of the player population is doing 99% of the complaining. Well, the other 90% of the player-base is silently suffering the changes and will not jump to renew their subscriptions. I know I'm rethinking mine.

 

4) This is for the veteran gamers: If Bioware only caters to the wants of you 'hardcore' gamers, the pedestrians like me (who are also paying monthly) will go away. In fact, that's in progress, isn't it? You'll be all out of 'newbs' to kill of you don't '****'.

 

5) This is for Bioware: If you continue to re-shape this game for the veterans, you're going to lose the non-veterans. You know, the ones veterans smite in the forums by saying "Well I guess you just suck lolz". It'll devolve into WoW with lightsabers. That's not why I started playing, tho it will be why I stop.

 

6) As far as I know, WoW is still running. I hear Diablo III is going to be released soon. If you hate this game so much, go play another.

 

WoWers, like I mentioned, you may think your opinions should carry more weight because you burned away your youth playing WoW, but you're wrong. Sorry, you just are. You're paying just as much per-month as I am, and I'm tired of your narcissistic delusions of entitlement. My opinion matters, too.

 

So please, for the rest of us who would like to enjoy this game for a while, quit your ************. I really enjoyed the INQ storyline. I enjoy(ed) pvp (before my character was nerfed). I'm looking forward to an expansion. I'm curious to explore the legacy system. I don't like having game features present at release TAKEN AWAY.

Edited April 13, 2012 by tonysnod

[wormington]

Umm... I'm guessing this is not what you are talking about?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_field_theory

[Scerge]

I used to play WoW but I've tried to steer Bioware away from the typical Blizzard stuff but as the guy says in the space battle of naboo in episode one.

 

"There's to many of them!" Them being whining WoWfans.

[pimabread]

I used to play WoW but I've tried to steer Bioware away from the typical Blizzard stuff but as the guy says in the space battle of naboo in episode one.

 

"There's to many of them!" Them being whining WoWfans.

 

I agree!

[Asavar]

PEOPLE ruin this game. WoW or not.

[kashaun]

This game is a standard gear treadmill, what sort of players do you expect? It's not some utopia in game, it's the same type of people you'll group with that are on these forums.

[JacenHallis]

6) As far as I know, WoW is still running. I hear Diablo III is going to be released soon. If you hate this game so much, go play another.

Not that I don't agree with the sentiment, but there are two things you might have overlooked with this statement. First of all, WoW is not Star Wars. It's not even sci-fi. People who hate fantasy games are not going to want to play WoW. There's also the fact that Blizzard likes to balance the game with what I call the "See-Saw method." That is, they nerf into oblivion with one patch, then overpower with the next. They never find the middle ground, and that's a major reason why I'll never play WoW again.

 

Second, Diablo III is not an MMORPG. Diablo II was not an MMORPG, either.

 

So please, for the rest of us who would like to enjoy this game for a LITTLE longer, QFT

Apparently, your guide was not too great. "QFT" stands for "Quoted For Truth." You were probably looking for "ST*U," which is pretty self-explanatory, and, it seems, filtered.

 

Now...

 

You have a point, but I wouldn't say it's the WoW players that are ruining TOR. I'm a n ex- WoW player, and I love the game. It's just a very vocal group of people that like to complain. Some people have very valid concerns, and those concerns need to be voiced. Some, however, like to complain, and they can be very loud.

Edited April 13, 2012 by JacenHallis

[Boritoo]

I'd like to suggest something that's going to get me murdered.

 

The WoW veterans are ruining Star Wars: The Old Republic.

 

Yes, this is my first MMO. Despite that, I've managed to level a War Hero INQ Sorcerer.

 

1) I had to google for a guide to read the forums (QQ, QFT?). Is typing really that difficult for you all? It's like playing mad-libs.

 

2) With my handy translation guide, I've been reading the forums. Sadly, the developers are reading them, too. Hence the rushed glitched/crashing 1.1 patch, and now the nerfing of classes in 1.2... The developers are reacting to YOU guys. This is my 6th-7th post ever?

 

3) This is speculative, but I'm willing to bet the majority of the player-base are not WoW veterans and do NOT post in the forums. These are arbitrary values, but SWTOR is changing radically because 10% of the player population is doing 99% of the complaining. Well, the other 90% of the player-base is silently suffering the changes and will not jump to renew their subscriptions. I know I'm rethinking mine.

 

4) This is for the veteran gamers: If Bioware only caters to the wants of you 'hardcore' gamers, the pedestrians like me (who are also paying monthly) will go away. In fact, that's in progress, isn't it? You'll be all out of 'newbs' to kill of you don't '****'.

 

5) This is for Bioware: If you continue to re-shape this game for the veterans, you're going to lose the non-veterans. You know, the ones veterans smite in the forums by saying "Well I guess you just suck lolz". It'll devolve into WoW with lightsabers. That's not why I started playing, tho it will be why I stop.

 

6) As far as I know, WoW is still running. I hear Diablo III is going to be released soon. If you hate this game so much, go play another.

 

WoWers, like I mentioned, you may think your opinions should carry more weight because you burned away your youth playing WoW, but you're wrong. Sorry, you just are. You're paying just as much per-month as I am, and I'm tired of your narcissistic delusions of entitlement. My opinion matters, too.

 

So please, for the rest of us who would like to enjoy this game for a while, quit your ************. I really enjoyed the INQ storyline. I enjoy(ed) pvp (before my character was nerfed). I'm looking forward to an expansion. I'm curious to explore the legacy system. I don't like having game features present at release TAKEN AWAY.

 

Actually mate it's not WoW player's specifically, this is pretty much all MMOs

 

You always have the pareto of 20% of your base making 80% of your complaints.

BW are used to this as it isn't specific to MMOs - go through the archices of the forums for their single player games and it was much the same.

 

One suggestion I can make to a newcomer to MMOs is that you do need to learn the lingo if you want to understand what people are saying to you in game. "I speak english not illiterate" won't get you teams

[tonysnod]

Umm... I'm guessing this is not what you are talking about?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_field_theory

 

Whoops! I thought the F stood for something else.

[DaxCloudchaser]

Oh, this is your 7th post?

 

Let me direct you to The search function.

 

There just MIGHT be a discussion about this topic, and certainly, someone who types in yellow will agree, and there goes your post that you thought was going to change the minds of ...who again?

[pmeeps]

i don't even know what it is you're protesting. you have every freedom to come to these forums and tell Bioware what you think the game should be like.

[Xurk]

I'd like to suggest something that's going to get me murdered.

 

The WoW veterans are ruining Star Wars: The Old Republic.

 

Yes, this is my first MMO. Despite that, I've managed to level a War Hero INQ Sorcerer.

 

1) I had to google for a guide to read the forums (QQ, QFT?). Is typing really that difficult for you all? It's like playing mad-libs.

This is an indication of a failed game design. you should never have to leave the game itself to learn to play properly.

 

2) With my handy translation guide, I've been reading the forums. Sadly, the developers are reading them, too. Hence the rushed glitched/crashing 1.1 patch, and now the nerfing of classes in 1.2... The developers are reacting to YOU guys. This is my 6th-7th post ever?

the devs are not stupid. they verify claims. if the majority of players have the same issue, regardless of how YOU feel about it, it needs to be addressed. if its only a few forum whiners however, the stats will not prove out their complaints and the devs ignore them.

 

3) This is speculative, but I'm willing to bet the majority of the player-base are not WoW veterans and do NOT post in the forums. These are arbitrary values, but SWTOR is changing radically because 10% of the player population is doing 99% of the complaining. Well, the other 90% of the player-base is silently suffering the changes and will not jump to renew their subscriptions. I know I'm rethinking mine.

of the games that have ever posted statistics, less than 5% of the player base ever posts on their forums.

again, you assume the devs are incompetent, they are not.

they have charts and graphs and logs. you do not. players posting here do not.

 

4) This is for the veteran gamers: If Bioware only caters to the wants of you 'hardcore' gamers, the pedestrians like me (who are also paying monthly) will go away. In fact, that's in progress, isn't it? You'll be all out of 'newbs' to kill of you don't '****'.

having content for, and catering to, are far different things.

 

5) This is for Bioware: If you continue to re-shape this game for the veterans, you're going to lose the non-veterans. You know, the ones veterans smite in the forums by saying "Well I guess you just suck lolz". It'll devolve into WoW with lightsabers. That's not why I started playing, tho it will be why I stop.

receiving feedback, confirming the issue that your veteran players are bringing to your attention, then deciding to act on them, is an appropriate business model. again, your personal dislike of a change doesnt mean that a change isnt warranted.

 

6) As far as I know, WoW is still running. I hear Diablo III is going to be released soon. If you hate this game so much, go play another.

I hate my car too, but i cannot afford a new car. i can go do things about what i hate about my car, things like a steering wheel cover, a new stereo, etc. the same is true of the game. things that i dislike arent always things that are flavor, often they are bugs or balance that the devs also agree are "wrong" and want to fix.

 

WoWers, like I mentioned, you may think your opinions should carry more weight because you burned away your youth playing WoW, but you're wrong. Sorry, you just are. You're paying just as much per-month as I am, and I'm tired of your narcissistic delusions of entitlement. My opinion matters, too.

 

So please, for the rest of us who would like to enjoy this game for a while, quit your ************. I really enjoyed the INQ storyline. I enjoy(ed) pvp (before my character was nerfed). I'm looking forward to an expansion. I'm curious to explore the legacy system. I don't like having game features present at release TAKEN AWAY.

veteran players typically have a concept of what balance is and can see issues more readily than a new player can. if you dont like a balanced game, go play KOTOR on EASY DIFFICULTY. you can be the hero, and no one will change your game play.

 

but when you want to be in a dynamic world with hundreds of thousands of other players, then be prepared for balance.

 

the best definition i ever heard is simply this:

 

everyone is pissed of equally.

[Valkirus]

I'd like to suggest something that's going to get me murdered.

 

The WoW veterans are ruining Star Wars: The Old Republic.

 

Yes, this is my first MMO. Despite that, I've managed to level a War Hero INQ Sorcerer.

 

1) I had to google for a guide to read the forums (QQ, QFT?). Is typing really that difficult for you all? It's like playing mad-libs.

 

2) With my handy translation guide, I've been reading the forums. Sadly, the developers are reading them, too. Hence the rushed glitched/crashing 1.1 patch, and now the nerfing of classes in 1.2... The developers are reacting to YOU guys. This is my 6th-7th post ever?

 

3) This is speculative, but I'm willing to bet the majority of the player-base are not WoW veterans and do NOT post in the forums. These are arbitrary values, but SWTOR is changing radically because 10% of the player population is doing 99% of the complaining. Well, the other 90% of the player-base is silently suffering the changes and will not jump to renew their subscriptions. I know I'm rethinking mine.

 

4) This is for the veteran gamers: If Bioware only caters to the wants of you 'hardcore' gamers, the pedestrians like me (who are also paying monthly) will go away. In fact, that's in progress, isn't it? You'll be all out of 'newbs' to kill of you don't '****'.

 

5) This is for Bioware: If you continue to re-shape this game for the veterans, you're going to lose the non-veterans. You know, the ones veterans smite in the forums by saying "Well I guess you just suck lolz". It'll devolve into WoW with lightsabers. That's not why I started playing, tho it will be why I stop.

 

6) As far as I know, WoW is still running. I hear Diablo III is going to be released soon. If you hate this game so much, go play another.

 

WoWers, like I mentioned, you may think your opinions should carry more weight because you burned away your youth playing WoW, but you're wrong. Sorry, you just are. You're paying just as much per-month as I am, and I'm tired of your narcissistic delusions of entitlement. My opinion matters, too.

 

So please, for the rest of us who would like to enjoy this game for a while, quit your ************. I really enjoyed the INQ storyline. I enjoy(ed) pvp (before my character was nerfed). I'm looking forward to an expansion. I'm curious to explore the legacy system. I don't like having game features present at release TAKEN AWAY.

 

You hav'nt played WoW..so what makes you knowledgable about it? And the odds are....the great majority of the TOR players have played WoW sometime in the past. Besides..it is the players and game companies that ruin any game. Do not Blame Blizzard.

[PanthersSolo]

I agree with everything you said except the part about nerfing. A game like this is always going to be constantly getting balance changes. Nerfing a class is often over-exaggerated by the class getting the nerf and is typically a necessary change. One class should never have the advantage over every other class.

 

Nerfing is one thing you will have to get used to as every class will undergo constant change for as long as this game is continued. Some moves will get buffs as others get nerfs. Just roll with the punches and try to overcome them. Dont get discouraged.

[LeonBraun]

The WoW veterans are ruining Star Wars: The Old Republic.

 

Yes, this is my first MMO.

 

I quoted the important parts here...

 

First of all, veteran WoW players are still playing WoW... Second, this is your first MMO and clearly are not familiar with WoW players...

 

Who you are refering to are not WoW players, but the perpetually transient base of MMO players that jump from game to game and ruin them each time there is a new MMO.

 

So please don't make a blanket statement accusing a segment of players that are not causing issues.

Edited April 13, 2012 by LeonBraun

[Gungan]

I'd like to suggest something that's going to get me murdered.

 

The WoW veterans are ruining Star Wars: The Old Republic.

 

Yes, this is my first MMO. Despite that, I've managed to level a War Hero INQ Sorcerer.

 

1) I had to google for a guide to read the forums (QQ, QFT?). Is typing really that difficult for you all? It's like playing mad-libs.

 

2) With my handy translation guide, I've been reading the forums. Sadly, the developers are reading them, too. Hence the rushed glitched/crashing 1.1 patch, and now the nerfing of classes in 1.2... The developers are reacting to YOU guys. This is my 6th-7th post ever?

 

3) This is speculative, but I'm willing to bet the majority of the player-base are not WoW veterans and do NOT post in the forums. These are arbitrary values, but SWTOR is changing radically because 10% of the player population is doing 99% of the complaining. Well, the other 90% of the player-base is silently suffering the changes and will not jump to renew their subscriptions. I know I'm rethinking mine.

 

4) This is for the veteran gamers: If Bioware only caters to the wants of you 'hardcore' gamers, the pedestrians like me (who are also paying monthly) will go away. In fact, that's in progress, isn't it? You'll be all out of 'newbs' to kill of you don't '****'.

 

5) This is for Bioware: If you continue to re-shape this game for the veterans, you're going to lose the non-veterans. You know, the ones veterans smite in the forums by saying "Well I guess you just suck lolz". It'll devolve into WoW with lightsabers. That's not why I started playing, tho it will be why I stop.

 

6) As far as I know, WoW is still running. I hear Diablo III is going to be released soon. If you hate this game so much, go play another.

 

WoWers, like I mentioned, you may think your opinions should carry more weight because you burned away your youth playing WoW, but you're wrong. Sorry, you just are. You're paying just as much per-month as I am, and I'm tired of your narcissistic delusions of entitlement. My opinion matters, too.

 

So please, for the rest of us who would like to enjoy this game for a while, quit your ************. I really enjoyed the INQ storyline. I enjoy(ed) pvp (before my character was nerfed). I'm looking forward to an expansion. I'm curious to explore the legacy system. I don't like having game features present at release TAKEN AWAY.

 

I dunno who you think is leaving... but it's the hardcore that are leaving because this game has nothing hardcore.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Gungan

[Talorya]

1) Internet lingo, not exclusive to MMOs.

 

2) People who post have their opinions heard or at least looked at, people who don't post have no feedback the developers can see and make changes on. It's only natural that they change things based on what people post, after they check with ingame data on their side and decide which adjustments needs to be made, and whether it actually produces a change or just a superficial one to sate the community.

 

3) Speculative or not, the people who do post a lot of constructive feedback on valid issues still provide feedback on valid issues. It doesn't matter if the majority of the population is not at certain levels or posts as much, these changes the so called "veterans" cause will go on making your experience "better" in the long run. Such as the many class story mission bugs that have been fixed in the early months where many people were unable to progress due to buggy spawns, buggy terrain causing enemies to reset constantly, or line of sight issues when there isn't any object in the way. They got through the content and caught the problems so it can be fixed, and there are plenty more problems to go before this game is problem free.

 

4 & 5) Vets and newbs never really mixed except maybe on the forums, even then it's only if one side is intentionally inciting the other to provoke the responses. Again, without the vets you'll still have buggy content, except you'll have less people to catch it early and make it a priority for them to fix content. By reshaping the game for the veterans, they can see how one end of the player base will react to the content, and then readjust it as time and demand goes on to fit all other players.

This is a practice done by many other games, introduce content for the endgamers to plow through, and fine-tune it and adjust it in the following weeks/months for the non-hardcore to enjoy with much less bugs.

 

6) WoW is indeed still running, but the reason why people go to other games is because they wanted to try something else. Many came to SWTOR because it promised to be different, it promised to be unique and non-traditional. For a time, that was true. But as time went on the direction the game took became more and more similar to the MMO progression of past games, and that's not great for those games let alone this one.

From what I can remember though, WoW subs didn't actually consisted of mostly "young" people, but a good portion of the game were occupied by the working population of all ages.

As for voices carrying more weight, people with more experience will always have more "weight" behind their opinions than those without. And as WoW has become the sole MMO to survive this long and actually profited during the MMO wars, their customers are what publishers want, people who will fork over money each month whether there are new content or not.

 

 

This is your first MMO, so while you may think this is the best MMO ever, it is not the first MMO (nor was WoW) to be made and played. "WoWers" as you put it, are not ruining the game, while there are some players that don't treat others as well it doesn't mean "WoWers" always mistreat others and voice "narcissistic delusions of entitlement" but valid feedback on how to improve the game beyond outdated designs from 2005.

 

Play as you like, and think how you want, but there are many more people out there who may or may not share your view on things, that won't change anytime soon. Get some more games under your belt, maybe even try WoW out sometime down the line, then I invite you to think about whether their feedback are "narcissistic delusions of entitlement" or do some of them actually have a point.

[tonysnod]

Not that I don't agree with the sentiment, but there are two things you might have overlooked with this statement. First of all, WoW is not Star Wars. It's not even sci-fi. People who hate fantasy games are not going to want to play WoW. There's also the fact that Blizzard likes to balance the game with what I call the "See-Saw method." That is, they nerf into oblivion with one patch, then overpower with the next. They never find the middle ground, and that's a major reason why I'll never play WoW again.

 

That's confusing; I always considered Fantasy a subsidiary of the greater umbrella Science Fiction. Tho I agree. On the flip-side, I have no interest in dwarves. What you say about the "See-Saw Method" is VERY disconcerting!!! I really don't enjoy being jerked around like that, especially after spending almost four months leveling a character with a consistent play-style. If you're right, I will definitely unsubscribe. I enjoy consistency.

 

Second, Diablo III is not an MMORPG. Diablo II was not an MMORPG, either.

 

Ah, you're right.

 

Apparently, your guide was not too great. "QFT" stands for "Quoted For Truth." You were probably looking for "ST*U," which is pretty self-explanatory, and, it seems, filtered.

 

Indeed, and already corrected in the original post. I was assuming that F if QFT was the same old F I've seen abbreviated elsewhere.

 

Now...

 

You have a point, but I wouldn't say it's the WoW players that are ruining TOR. I'm a n ex- WoW player, and I love the game. It's just a very vocal group of people that like to complain. Some people have very valid concerns, and those concerns need to be voiced. Some, however, like to complain, and they can be very loud.

 

Again, I'm with you. I'm not suggesting we revoke their 1st amendment rights just yet. I want the developers to know they should do a comparison between player stats for posts vs player stats for unsubscribing... I'd lay down dollars to donuts that the ones who use the word "unsubscribe" in their posts are not unsubscribing with the frequency the "quiet" non-posting players are unsubscribing.

 

I feel as though this game is being supported by a vast majority of players who are being silently marginalized by the over-vocal minority. Although I admit, it's definitely too pressumptive to say they're all WoWers (hindsight is always 20/20).

[tonysnod]

I quoted the important parts here...

 

First of all, veteran WoW players are still playing WoW... Second, this is your first MMO and clearly are not familiar with WoW players...

 

Who you are refering to are not WoW players, but the perpetually transient base of MMO players that jump from game to game and ruin them each time there is a new MMO.

 

So please don't make a blanket statement accusing a segment of players that are not causing issues.

 

I agree, it was pressumptive to assume all the obnoxious people are from WoW. Your explanation of 'transient players' is much better, as I've been rethinking my original post. That being the case, I wish they'd hurry up and transition.

[tonysnod]

Oh, this is your 7th post?

 

Let me direct you to The search function.

 

There just MIGHT be a discussion about this topic, and certainly, someone who types in yellow will agree, and there goes your post that you thought was going to change the minds of ...who again?

 

Thank you, but I'm familiar with it. Searched for posts by people who don't post, didn't find anything. Go figure.

[LeonBraun]

I agree, it was pressumptive to assume all the obnoxious people are from WoW. Your explanation of 'transient players' is much better, as I've been rethinking my original post. That being the case, I wish they'd hurry up and transition.

 

I agree on that... For sure =)

[tonysnod]

Actually mate it's not WoW player's specifically, this is pretty much all MMOs

 

You always have the pareto of 20% of your base making 80% of your complaints.

BW are used to this as it isn't specific to MMOs - go through the archices of the forums for their single player games and it was much the same.

 

One suggestion I can make to a newcomer to MMOs is that you do need to learn the lingo if you want to understand what people are saying to you in game. "I speak english not illiterate" won't get you teams

 

That's for damn sure! Although I'd never say "I speak english not illiterate" because my dialect of english is a little more tactful. I'm picking up on the language slowly, but it's not going well. Frankly, I group infrequently because of the language barrier. It was February before I knew I was DPS. I told folks "I kill things from far away".

[Emoglobin]

So what do you call the people who have a sub to this game AND WoW?

 

Just curious.

 

There is no monopoly in MMORPG anymore so stop crying.

[BlindRapture]

You guys need to find a better scapegoat, WoW is not the source of all your woes. You act like everyone who has played or currently plays WoW is a terrible human being.

 

This is the internet, look around. We're ALL terrible human beings.

[Lightmaguz]

" I don't like having game features present at release TAKEN AWAY."

 

What the hell was taken away? If you mean nerfs then uh... Those are necessary and a part of the never ending balancing process.