Pathetically Underwhelming

[Raeln]

I have to agree with the OP.

 

From http://www.swtor.com/news/blog/20120320 -- one of two high-profile postings on the subject that both appeared to the vast majority of readers to promise the feature would be widespread, not extremely limited to endgame items:

 

 

 

Clearly, that final point was extremely misleading at best, and patently false at worst. "Wide variety" my left foot!

 

Even if they retracted/clarified this, most people missed it. I was looking for information about this promised feature pre-launch, and I certainly didn't see any retraction. For such an important correction, they should have made it a higher-profile announcement.

 

What makes things even worse, even the existing mod gear schematics you can learn result in items you can't RE to at least get materials back. That leaves crafters trying to crit for augment slots with potentially huge piles of junk orange gear shells that aren't good for much other than vendor selling for token amounts of credits.

 

At least with purple gear, you can RE extras to try to get back some materials.

 

All around, it just seems like the ideal we were led to believe would be delivered is nothing like the true state of the crafting changes introduced.

 

Not that makes it right, but you can stuff low level armorings into moddable gear and RE them back for a pathetic amount of materials. By pathetic, I mean like 5% of the mats it took to make them. As an example, the War Hero gear I was making last night required 8 to 12 durasteel, 6 to 10 zal alloy, 4 thermoflux things and some ciridium. I was RE'ing them and getting back a whopping 2 zal alloy.

 

Whoo.

[Kiyoma]

Your argument is invalid. You CAN RE artifacts for the orange shell of the gear. For example if you like the look of the columi sage chest (banana powers ftw) you could RE it and get an orange version. I have orange shells of pretty much every Exotech light and medium armor recipie available already (i raid a lot and have been stockpiling,) so yes, your argument is invalid.

 

I'm pretty sure this is untrue....anything I've tried to RE as Artifice shows no message concerning research and has yielded zero gear.

 

Maybe it's different for exotech gear? Your argument is invalid until you show me orange shells of previous Artifact level gear that came from REing.

[Raeln]

Agreed.

 

Just another person that doesn't get to have everything he wants the way he THINKS he should have it in game.

 

There are plenty of Orange schems available and obtainable. Don't expect EVERYTHING to be dropped in your lap please.

 

I ran several underworld trading missions last night, didn't see a single schematic.

 

Only schematics I was able to get my hands on last night came from the PvP vendors - and those were fairly pricey, considering every combine is useless unless it crits. Seemed I had to make 5 pieces on average to get a crit combine.

[Raeln]

Your argument is invalid. You CAN RE artifacts for the orange shell of the gear. For example if you like the look of the columi sage chest (banana powers ftw) you could RE it and get an orange version. I have orange shells of pretty much every Exotech light and medium armor recipie available already (i raid a lot and have been stockpiling,) so yes, your argument is invalid.

 

I RE'd some exotech gear and got only a pathetic amount of materials.

 

My Rakata/Columi gear also gave no percent chance to learn on the tooltip - I wasn't about to try it. I also RE'd several pieces of other moddable gear and learned nothing.

 

I'm not saying that I don't believe you, but ....

[KanderRennik]

This is a very fine example of an all too frequent issue with MMO players

 

"The devs SAID that they will do something in this way, but that's obviously not what they mean, right ?"

 

So the player then carries on in the firm belief that his/her interpretation of what was written is actually correct, and is later bitterly disappointed and angry when what was written IS actually implemented !

 

Until such time as devs start writing 10,000-word blogs explaining in ultimate detail every nuance of impending changes or new features, there will always be "ambiguity" in the often brief descriptions and explanations that we are given. We, as players, often interpret volumes from these scraps of info, especially when we want something to mean what WE want it to mean...

 

So, using the logic of your argument, if a person went to an Italian restaurant, and ordered a pasta dish that the menu stated came with chicken, but when it was served, had only two small pieces of chicken in the entire entree, the customer's dissatisfaction would be their own fault for misinterpreting what the menu stated.

 

In any business, customer satisfaction is key, and if BW had sufficiently satisfied their customers with update 1.2, they wouldn't be comping players' subscriptions for a month.

 

It would have taken 250 words or less to clearly state what would, and would not, be part of the crit-crafted custom gear system. BW would not only escaped the blowback that is building in the crew skill forums over this, but also would have received valuable, positive feedback from the community.

Edited April 13, 2012 by KanderRennik

[Ravaran]

If there is no % to learn schematic, you will ONLY get mats back.

 

 

I just want to add, either the chance to crit oranges is very low, or critting oranges only works on newly acquired schematics..or certain ones. I made 20 low-level orange pants (light armor) yesterday, and not one crit. This was a schematic I learned before 1.2. I believe it was Sith Apprentice Leggings or something.

 

Normally at that level you will see several crits out of 20 crafts.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Ravaran

[BrotherKarr]

I just want to RE my failed Oranges and get back more then 5% materials. The other Fail I feel is that the Augments should have been things I go to the Trainer to pick up at a price. Then the augment schematics from UT could be for some of the more exotic Augments.

 

But the Basic Greens I should get from the trainer. I have already seen on Augment Schematic for 100k on the GTN 2 hrs after the Servers went live yesterday. That is a stupid price for something that should be a new feature for a Crafter.

 

I will stick with it and I will get the schematics in time, but I am really kind of disappointed in the 1.2 so far.

 

UI Customization + Pass

Research Schematics - Fail

Reverse Engineering Orange Items for Materials - Fail

Augment Schematics - Fail

Legacy - Overpriced (dont tell me to go go run my dailies, I already do)

[CapuchinSeven]

Sorry can someone clear this up for me,

 

Can we or can we not RE an item for a chance to get an orange schematic back? Am I right in thinking if you see a % then there is a chance to get an orange schematic?

Edited April 13, 2012 by CapuchinSeven

[Ravaran]

Sorry can someone clear this up for me,

 

Can we or can we not RE an item for a chance to get an orange schematic back?

 

Campaign gear only I believe. These drop from the new raid on heroic difficulty. It may be black hole gear as well, but I do not think we know for sure yet.

[Invic]

Overall I commend Bio-ware for the content and Legacy system in general.

 

That being said, Prior to finding out crafting was just a massive credit sink I spent a couple million REing and grinding to make epics and tier 2 RE'd epics. At the end of that I got a couple that were useful many that had stats that made no sense, and a overall production cost so high it offended me to even put them on the GTN and hope some "sucker" would buy them.

 

Then I hit some PvP replaced all my work in a week with better gear for PVE. Then I hit a some HM's and a Ops. I then acquired for PVE better gear then I could ever RE grind to. With the hopes of crafting either A) Being fun to make orange stuff for appearances that could be modded from Ops gear to be competitive Or B) I could RE schematics with enough work and compete with low to mid level Ops/HM gear. What we ended up with is simple. If you can get the Highest end gear, you can do stuff with it. If not then well you just waste your credits.

 

Hell I was hoping to make normal oranges of some of the trainer green/blue gear since I liked the look. The "new" Mission schematics better be more then a handful because right now I see unless your at the top end of Ops content you get basically nothing.

 

Not seeing any real reason to grind anything much at all. Shoveling money into a Crit and RE money pit is a waste of time. Legacy unlocks many of them take cash and give more of a benefit then hours of RE/Crit crafting.

 

I know many guildmates that love crafting. They do it for the fun of making neat stuff not some money making GTN goal. I saw a good number of them last night. They tried some things and laughed and all said let them know when crafting is useful and fun again then they will come back. Myself Crafting is a big part of the game that I enjoy but not the biggest, so I can understand how those that make that their focus and get most of their enjoyment from it, just log out and cancel until new hope appears on the horizon.

 

Worst part is about to start my 3rd character, and literally haven't since I can't figure out what crafting profession to do. The problem is none of it is really worth much beyond a couple of cosmetic pieces. Its easier/faster/cheaper by far to ignore crafting and just get far superior gear from PVP or HM's. That content level is the only place anyone is profiting from it too, which I find kinda funny.

[KanderRennik]

Sorry can someone clear this up for me,

 

Can we or can we not RE an item for a chance to get an orange schematic back? Am I right in thinking if you see a % then there is a chance to get an orange schematic?

 

No, what the % chance is on green or blues, is the chance to get the next level schematic. Once you craft an Artifact quality, you cannot RE them again to get a Custom schematic. You also cannot RE orange gear to receive the schematic. The only exceptions are the new top-level gear.

 

Very disappointing.

[Yazule]

well hmm,

 

i logged in after patching, and within 20 min had 3 crit crafted low level orange chests... there is NO difference between a level 11 crit craft orange heavy armor and a level 49.

 

If people do not have the orange schem's already then i am sorry, but i have like 15 heavy and 12 light orange schematics, i can make chest legs head and hands (still no boots)

 

i also now have a purple tank augment that will sell well as well

 

all in all i am completely happy with the crafting changes, armormech which was arguably the worst crafting class in game is now viable and profitable.

 

I am sorry that others had such high expectations, from reading the patch notes and info from dev's i got exactly what i expected.

 

but i did not make assumptions like a lot of people.

 

+1 to 1.2 from me

[MaverickXIV]

well hmm,

 

i logged in after patching, and within 20 min had 3 crit crafted low level orange chests... there is NO difference between a level 11 crit craft orange heavy armor and a level 49.

 

If people do not have the orange schem's already then i am sorry, but i have like 15 heavy and 12 light orange schematics, i can make chest legs head and hands (still no boots)

 

i also now have a purple tank augment that will sell well as well

 

all in all i am completely happy with the crafting changes, armormech which was arguably the worst crafting class in game is now viable and profitable.

 

I am sorry that others had such high expectations, from reading the patch notes and info from dev's i got exactly what i expected.

 

but i did not make assumptions like a lot of people.

 

+1 to 1.2 from me

What orange hands can you craft?

[Yazule]

What orange hands can you craft?

 

at work (lunch) right now. I will post when i get home my hands, only have one of those, not sure where i got it

[TxDragonMaster]

Crafted a pair of 'Sith Dueling Pants' level 11 modifiables that I have been making selling pre-patch 1.2, first pair I made got critical success 'Augmented'. Granted good luck on my part, but have gotten a lot more crits on other items during the day that added augment slots to regular gear as well. Good run actually.

[GnatB]

I read the dev tracker daily.

I read numerous patch notes.

I seen the trailers.

I browsed the PTS forums.

 

Until last night, I thought I would be able to reverse engineer my Columi and Rakata gear and receive schematics to remake them.

 

I thought I would be able to go through the lower flashpoints/heroic quests, gather up all those moddable (or even blue) pieces and RE them for schematics.

 

Oh, I got to work on making new gear alright - I spent all night making critted War Hero gear for a fellow guildie that I can't even wear. He got to buy his schematics in a box.

 

Then you lie or have a serious reading comprehension problem. It was ABUNDANTLY obvious from both patch notes and the PTS forums that only the new 1.2 stuff would possibly be researchable into orange schematics.

[Ravaran]

So it seems schematics for orange gear learned before 1.2 can now produce augmented versions. I must have been extremely unlucky making 20 pairs of pants with no crits with maxed companions.

[Raeln]

Then you lie or have a serious reading comprehension problem. It was ABUNDANTLY obvious from both patch notes and the PTS forums that only the new 1.2 stuff would possibly be researchable into orange schematics.

 

Negative.

 

I do remember them stating they released several new moddable schematics as rewards from missions but it was not ABUNDANTLY obvious that the RE mechanic was not implemented as stated.

 

If it was ABUNDANTLY obvious, this thread would not have been created. Nonetheless, it is a disappointment. Bioware did not do a good job communicating how RE was going to behave.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Raeln

[Lopok]

i haven't made up my mind as to how i feel about the crafting changes...

...but i do have a question that I'd love an answer to...

 

the new schematic Elegant somethingorother Lightsaber was the first thing i got, and got it multiple times (which i GTN'd), and then went about crafting as many of the suckers as i could...i was able to craft 20 (level 43 crafter here: 4comp's x 5 items in queue) sabers, which netted me 3 critted pieces (1 i am keeping, and the other i have already sold, and at too shallow a cost, but that's my own stupidity!), and left me with 17 of the new sabers that i had intended to RE for mats and keep the process of $$$$ flowing...

 

....however, the option never came up. Is it because the item is lev 50, and I am only 43 (but i saw no notice about the required RE levels)? or are these new items RE-proof?

 

granted, i have been unable to log in yet to check these options, but if anyone has in fact RE'd the new Elegant sabers, I'd love to hear about what i am doing wrong!!

[Ravaran]

No, un-crit versions are a near 100% loss, you can only vendor it...or use it.

[Lopok]

a major drag...glad i bought up all the crystals and artifact fragments the GTN had to offer when i had the chance!

 

thanks for the fast reply!

[Anecdote]

Then you lie or have a serious reading comprehension problem. It was ABUNDANTLY obvious from both patch notes and the PTS forums that only the new 1.2 stuff would possibly be researchable into orange schematics.

They should have clarified that then, or not released the following post.

http://www.swtor.com/node/313998

 

EXAMPLE

Armormech crafters may now reverse engineer almost any modifiable outfit into an empty custom (orange) shell of the same name and appearance, which may now gain an augment slot when crafted with critical success.

 

Reverse engineering and Research

 

...

 

We have also added new content for both the leveling and end game:

 

• Players with the appropriate professions are now able to reverse engineer random loot items and acquire materials from them - including Operations materials from end game items.
  
• Reverse engineering and research is now available for tier 2 end game items (and will automatically happen if the player wins a 'disassemble' loot in a group).
  
• Mods from tier 2 end game items may now be extracted and researched. However, Armorings that provide a set bonus can only be extracted. They do not yield research schematics.
  
• Modifiable weapons and armor can now be reverse engineered and researched into empty, custom (orange) shells with the same name and appearance, adding a wide variety of new outfits to the game.
  

Edited April 13, 2012 by Anecdote

[goldhtown]

I wasn't just underwhelmed...I was severly disappointed about synthweaving, and re-engineering, and the entire so-called custom look system right now.

 

Here are my main concerns:

 

• There aren't enough orange patterns. Forget for a second the apparent misleading posts by devs about re-engineering to get orange custom items, but I still distinctly remember devs saying there would be new patterns added to compensate for some items not being able to be re-engineered. If this is still true, then boy are they rare.
   
  
• Currently, for each armor type there are about 11 sets, but most of them are very similar, and even more ridiculously ugly (especially for Sith light armor). If you want crit-craft augmented gear, you're probably gonna have to wear a level 10 Dark Acolyte robes or something else low-level and potentially lame looking. That's cool if you like that look, but it should be a choice...your choice, you shouldn't be forced into having only a few options.
   
  
• What happened to the whole notion about "letting you look like your iconic unique look"? Right now, sure, you can look like you want in some cases, unless you want to have minimal stat gear. Unless you're a casual gamer, this is a big deal.
   
  
• You pretty much can't re-engineer anything worth bothering with. Huge dissapointment, and I feel the devs were very misleading on this issue. The "tool-tip" telling you the % chance to learn schematic is sorta hiding on the gear, and very rarely comes up for anything other than useless green or blue gear.
   
  
• Set bonuses are locked in Rakata gear and below. As a raider this is a HUGE disappointment because the end-game sets are terrible looking. I guess you could argue that this issue is only temporary since I'll likely be getting the new campaign gear soon (which supposedly you can carry the set bonus with the armor mod), but for now, it's very lame that if you want a crit-crafted orange gear you lose the set bonus.
  

 

 

Overall, it seems that an overwhelming portion of the population feels that the look of their character and gear is important to them, and the Devs have specifically said they seem to understand this, and yet, they continue to disappoint or put barriers in place inhibiting us to have the look we want with gear that can be min/maxed for end-game content.

 

The entire so-called "custom" look the devs seemed to understand got basically thrown out the window as far as i'm concerned and i'm hoping they will fix what seems to be a very simple issue they could address.

Edited April 13, 2012 by goldhtown

[WarpedWiseMan]

i haven't made up my mind as to how i feel about the crafting changes...

...but i do have a question that I'd love an answer to...

 

the new schematic Elegant somethingorother Lightsaber was the first thing i got, and got it multiple times (which i GTN'd), and then went about crafting as many of the suckers as i could...i was able to craft 20 (level 43 crafter here: 4comp's x 5 items in queue) sabers, which netted me 3 critted pieces (1 i am keeping, and the other i have already sold, and at too shallow a cost, but that's my own stupidity!), and left me with 17 of the new sabers that i had intended to RE for mats and keep the process of $$$$ flowing...

 

....however, the option never came up. Is it because the item is lev 50, and I am only 43 (but i saw no notice about the required RE levels)? or are these new items RE-proof?

 

granted, i have been unable to log in yet to check these options, but if anyone has in fact RE'd the new Elegant sabers, I'd love to hear about what i am doing wrong!!

 

I'm not positive, have not tried it myself, but if you put low level mods (all slots) into the orange item, you can then RE the item, but for less matts then the cost of even level one mods.

[Assaultrooper]

Just a quick question.... RE-ing say Quest Given Orange gear CAN give you the schematics to it right?? The problem been its only like 0.1% chance, right?

 

Please tell me I didn't wasted all my orange gear yesterday