Combat Spec is a Support Role

[Dawginole]

I have said this a couple of times and been shrugged off, but the truth of the matter is that Combat is a DPS support role.

 

I have played Combat since launch. I have rebuilt and played the Combat tree in 1.2. They did not hand us equivalent Watchman dmg. They did increase our dmg.

 

Believe it or not, but I was actually melting opponents in WZ via Precision Slash > Strike spam rather than going with Blade Rush.

 

Blade Rush spam in theory still pulls the most dmg, but it still feels like there is a hesitation with this ability.

 

Combat requires a lot of wind up to be able to have Zen and Combat Trance and using prep-abilities like Precision and Blade Storm before you can start pounding Blade Rush.

 

The payoff at the moment is, well, not good. I don't mind the build up. But if a proper rotation of these abilities is done to set up the highest dmg Blade Rush proc, Blade Rush should simply destroy the opponent.

 

Watchman works like it is supposed to. i.e. Sustained high damage. Combat is however still broken.

 

IMHO, the way Combat should work is that we should be a relatively weak DPS class while we build up all these buffs via our ability rotation. BUT if a player is good enough to get through that rotation without dying, then his set up should lead to HUGE HUGE damage procs from Blade Rush.

 

The result would be that the enemy would see Combat as a big bomb with a very long fuse. Their opportunity to take you out would be an ever decreasing window. And if they couldn't do it by the time Blade Rush was set up, they simply would not live. Period.

 

As it sits, Combat is still broken as a pure DPS class. However, it seems to shine in a Watchman support role. Kiting, rooting, stunning, and keeping opponents busy until a Watchman arrives to faceroll them.

 

I have had a tremendous amount of fun playing Combat. I do wish it did more damage. For one the spec's role is tremendously misunderstood which leads to arrogant players making comments that a Combat player is not good because they are not doing 500k dmg a match. With a pocket healer, I can still do 300k a match with ~3 deaths and 30-40 kills. That's great for one thing. MY PRIDE. But pride doesn't win matches.

 

Whereas I believe the more informed player will begin to recognize that what the Combat spec player does is increase the opportunity for other DPS players to do good dmg and get kills, which ultimately leads to area control. And when teams (not single players) are in control of areas, teams get wins. Wins get more comms and more comms leads to better gear and better play.

 

That's my post 1.2 Combat spec assessment. Take it how you like, and please feel free to post any other observations you are having today with the spec in 1.2.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Dawginole

[BolttVanderhuge]

That is a good way of putting everything. When I started playing I began as combat tree and I really enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun and I could mix up abilities freely and still dish out a lot of damage. I recently re-speced to watchman to try it out. I do enjoy this and it definately does better damage (I really enjoy the self heal as well), but doing the same exact rotation all the time gets a little old for me. I have been waiting to see if the combat spec would become better in 1.2 and I will probably try it again at some point as well as the third tree at some point.

 

I do like your idea of having all the skill build up over time to make Blade Rush incredibly powerful though, hopefully that will happen in 1.3.

[Crawelc]

The fact that 4.2k crits is the best we can get and then only under the perfect circumstance is a joke, I have never min/maxed my gear but surely with full BM I should be able to get the 5k crit in perfect conditions.

[GodSentKiller]

I really think you summed up combat very well. This is great because I enjoy the play style of combat much more than watchman, but it’s hard to find people arguing to why it’s not a “broken” spec. (I didn’t have fun as focus the week I played it so I kind of ignore it as a spec)

 

I am biased towards combat so I hope my comments don’t come across as rude, I just want some insight.

 

I don’t know if you meant to say spamming “slash” when you said you get more damage from spamming “strike”. You getting more damage spamming slash rather than blade rush makes sense to me. Unless I read the tooltips wrong blade rush along with the automatic ataru proc does close damage to what slash does, but after your blade rush having 6 seconds of 50% chance to proc ataru form it would make much more sense to spam slash. It’s like you’re doing more damage with a huge chance to do even more. My question is why do you want blade rush to be the huge damage procs? It’s a great move but isn’t the main move supposed to be blade storm? Along with that you have an immobilizing master strike. My centering goes to transcendence since I’m constantly moving so I’m not using zen much, but when I do I start with a blade rush then switch to slash while the buff is active.

 

In my opinion watchman has just as much build up as combat. It takes quite a bit of focus to put all the dots on a target and finish with a merc slash and it can be broken up awkwardly with the need to leg slash. Although with 1.2 focus building in watchman might not be so difficult with the force generation talent now located firmly in the middle of the tree and no longer needing focus to interrupt. My point is that the both take a bit of time to unload damage. The only difference I see is that if you get CC’d in combat you have to start all over again, but in watchman you can usually just pick up where you left off.

Unless you’re talking about the buildup required for zen. Then yes it takes a bit to get there and it seems like the payoff is greater for a watchman.

 

I’ve never been in a game with a sentinel hitting 500k damage, but I have seen videos so I guess they are out there. With a pocket healer and honestly playing the best I ever have I hit 400k as combat. I do average about 300k, anything more or less depends on if I’m focusing on damage or actually trying to win. That really is just a pride thing.

To crawelc in perfect conditions (inspiration, precision slash, trinket, full buffs, combat trance, and possibly opportune attack because I wasn’t sure at the time) I have hit over 5k with a blade storm. That was yesterday in 1.2 with full champion gear and BM weapons.

 

Honestly I said all this is because I’m looking for reasoning why it’s broken. I don’t feel useless when I play combat, why is it called a broken spec? Like the reasoning for being able to hold someone still for a watchman to come in and kill them is solid, but it’s not like you don’t have the damage output to kill them yourself. If I’m holding them there I’m going to wail on him/her. An average person playing sentinel doesn’t hit 600k damage in a warzone, just because the best player on the server does it in watchman doesn’t mean it’s the only viable spec.

[OdamanPrime]

I was beating my watchman damage into the dirt as combat last night. I died more than I did as watchman sure, but the damage seemed great to me. I only played watchman before 1.2, but I went combat after a few wfs as watchman to get my 80% speed back. I'll be sticking with combat now, just because I wreck more face with combat burst and get the utility of 80% speed back. Edited April 13, 2012 by OdamanPrime

[babiegirlla]

I`ve also played combat since I hit full champion gear months ago, and while I agree with the support feeling with us having a group trans, crippling throw root and MS strike root, I strongly disagree with your statement elsewhere.

 

Our damage has and always has been amazing, I played combat because I felt our job as a pure dps should be simple : as much damage as possible as fast as possible.

 

People are so incredibly clueless on these forums about combat, they think you should precision slash and then master strike. That`s great, except you can still get stunned, knock backed, not only by your target but by other people, and there goes your big burst. You should Precision slash, blade rush, blade storm and the master strike, if you`re lucky you`ll get a tick or two of MS with PS up. It`d even be smart to crippling throw root them before you do what rotation.

 

And even running around with blade rush + bladestorm, the damage is pretty great when you get your crits. I can understand why you say everything you are and I do agree with you in a lot of ways, I`d really like the spec to become less reliant on precision slash because of the filthy amount of stuns/kbs in this game making it difficult to use it to its potential, considering the CD it has.

[Stalzy]

Jedi Sentinel Here. Valor 75. Over 30 hours played on my guy. Pre 1.2, Watchman and Focus reigned supreme by far. I would destroy any Combat spec that came accross me.

 

But now the game has changed. Combat's front load DMG is MASSIVE. Bar-non the best single target DPS. Leap --> Precision Slash --> Zealous --> Masterstrike --> Follow by a quick Blade storm and watch people's heath go from 15k-3k just in time for my dispatch.

 

I'm out DPS'ing Rage/Focus and Annhilate/Watchman Sentinels. And this is ONLY with SINGLE target damage. It's really a hectic spec to play. Going untouched is an absolute nightmare in Combat.

 

Master strike's dmg is going to be nerfed. It can hit anywhere from 6k-9k. Always followed up with a Blade Storm.

 

The mobility with this spec is bar non! Now that Transcendence Actives the entire WZ group. Denova and Alderaan are easy caps. Everybody loves you and wants you on their team. Heal's can't get away from my Displacement or my Master Strike root.

 

I was a hardcore Watchman/Focus specc'ed Sentinel. Combat is my new home.

 

TL;DR - You need to have the gear to really make Combat Shine. Otherwise it's lackluster dmg and geared healer's will be able to survive and get away from you. Get this spec and take a week to learn it. You'll be suprised how beast mode. Literally BEAST MODE this spec is.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Stalzy

[Ainianu]

People are so incredibly clueless on these forums about combat, they think you should precision slash and then master strike. That`s great, except you can still get stunned, knock backed, not only by your target but by other people, and there goes your big burst. You should Precision slash, blade rush, blade storm and the master strike, if you`re lucky you`ll get a tick or two of MS with PS up. It`d even be smart to crippling throw root them before you do what rotation.

 

But now the game has changed. Combat's front load DMG is MASSIVE. Bar-non the best single target DPS. Leap --> Precision Slash --> Zealous --> Masterstrike --> Follow by a quick Blade storm and watch people's heath go from 15k-3k just in time for my dispatch.

 

both say different things and neither are what i would do myself.

 

firstly Babiegirlla = Precision Slash > Blade Rush > Blade Storm > Master Strike.... Your master strike will not be delivering its big hit in precision window.

 

secondly Stalzy = Precision Slash > Zealous > Master strike > Blade Storm... neither the final hit on master strike, nor the blade storm will be in precision window.

 

Both of these examples are wasted opportunities (Babiegirlla's example still has Blade Storm inside the window at least though)

 

I find Zealous to be better used prior to precision slash personally to keep the big hitters inside that window. I generally go with pre-built focus and hit Precision > Master Strike > Blade Storm (If combat trance was triggered, if not go with Blade Rush and then Blade Storm) and Precision > Blade Rush > Blade Storm > Blade Rush-spam whilst in Zen (i mostly alternate between those two uses of Precision)

 

If you can get it within combat trance the Precision > Master Strike > Bladestorm is very potent and all hits within the precision window (if no combat trance and you have to blade rush first then the blade storm will miss the window, but its better to have it crit outside than hit normal within imo)

 

Getting that final hit from master strike within the precision window requires it to be the next attack after precision.... and i have got the 5k medal from master strikes final hit a few times PRIOR to 1.2

 

Also note... i NEVER hit precision if i have just leaped someone, nor if i have just run at someone. I give my target a short time to 'panic' and hit their CC/Stuns and blow them first, Precision comes after that. (unless its a target that has limited or no knockbacks and such that will likely spoil it)

[Dawginole]

Precision > Zealous is an awful idea. Youre wasting time with a move that does nothing but build focus.

 

I rarely used MS except to root someone for a big hitter. But I may alter this after some of your comments post 1.2.

 

Generally my rotation would be leap > zealous > zen > precision > blade storm > spam blade rush

 

That should keep your big procs inside precision buff and land some blade rush in combat trance.

 

Happy to experiment with getting MS in there.

[thepilk]

I do a few different things, based on whats available.

 

Often Ill do Blade Rush---> Precision--> Riposte (during the GCD)--->Master Strike--->Blade Storm--->and if the cooldowns play out I can occasionaly squeeze in a second Riposte during BS's GCD right as the buff vanishes.

 

Then, Precision will be available before Master Strike's cooldown is back around I often do

 

Blade Rush, Precision Slash, Riposte (during GCD), Storm, Rush-spam, and if opportunity presents, a Riposte on the way out the door during the last Rush's GCD

 

I try to drop a Rush before Precision to have the buff active going in, thus increaseing the chances of my Precision Slash and Riposte openers trigging an armor penetrating Ataru hit, also every hit of Master Strike can trip an Ataru attack too (other than the 1.5 recourse)

 

I try to have Riposte active when I go into my into the Precision combos... 3 seconds of the buff is lost to GCDs, so the ability to attack during those times is really handy (if you have the extra Focus for it). Its hard to control when you proc, but you can usually force it to become available by useing Pacify to drop their accuracy.

 

Also, if Im being attacked I try to use my Precision attack windows when Rebuke is active, if they trip every damage proc possible, 4 procs can trigger during Precision's duration on top of your other attacks.

 

A Precision window can potentially have your combo of choice, 4 Ataru procs (in addition to the freebees generated by Blade Rush), 4 Rebuke procs, and 1-2 Ripostes. (Riposte is weird, because it has a 6 second cooldown...so only 1 should fit, but Ive had it come back in time to just barely get a second one before. ) Either way, all that ontop of inspiration or any relics/adrenal buffs, theres a lot you can squeeze into that 6 second burst window.

[Hizoka]

I was beating my watchman damage into the dirt as combat last night. I died more than I did as watchman sure, but the damage seemed great to me. I only played watchman before 1.2, but I went combat after a few wfs as watchman to get my 80% speed back. I'll be sticking with combat now, just because I wreck more face with combat burst and get the utility of 80% speed back.

 

then you are crappy as hell as watchmen

[Funick]

combat is great for huttball... that said its not very good for anything else... a combat sentinel also in BM gear tried to fight me 1v1... I won with over half health remaining after his guarded by the force ended. combat is far more susceptible to well timed stuns/pacifies than watchman and it does less damage even if uninterrupted, its only advantages are movement speed and roots. but watchman has better interrupts and more than enough snare and leaps to stay on a target, not to mention the self heals.

 

I'd say watchman is still easily the best if you are trying to kill people especially healers by your self. combat is best in huttball because of the mobility.

 

focus i dislike because of its dependence on sweep and with how easily people can anticipate the sweep and either use defensive cool downs or run out and avoid it. that said it can smash a bunch of noobs all at once, while watchman is busy killing them one at a time.

 

I would agree combat is decent support and if you are really undergeared go combat so you can at least speed boost me and root my targets.

[KruelhandJorb]

i'm going to try combat this week sometime for a few days to see where it all stands. But if that's the 'burst' tree and I hit someone for 5.3k with merciless slash in watchman, I dunno... seems to me like they missed the boat.

 

Although I am very interested to see what rooted Masterstrike is like because that buff was a really really big buff imo

[EssFerret]

I played Combat for the first time last night and did not feel under-powered at all. I played 1-50 and am pvp valor 66 with watchman so I know the rotation very well. Combat I didn't know the rotation at all and still didn't feel like I was giving too much up. I loved the root from the trauma skill and masterstrike. 15% movement bonus from defensive + 80% from transcendence makes the game seem like everyone else has speed debuffs on them.

 

I am running a PvP focused build that looks like this:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501rcZGMrRRMrdGzZM.1

 

I drop righteous zeal and steadfast in an attempt to keep rebuke up more, since I can cast pacify from 10m and 0 focus there are lots of ripostes. The more rebuke is up the stronger you are.

 

I am not sure about Master Focus. 8% damage buff on an interrupt-able skill that takes 27 seconds to CD may be a waste of 2 points. Putting them into Righteous Zeal may mean more damage over the long run as that would reduce the number of strikes I would have to do.

 

Anyway I felt like this spec had a ton of utility, decent enough survivability and huge amounts of burst DPS, and I was just mashing the buttons. I liked it a lot and I'm going to stick with it to see what it's like once I master the rotation. I think every team is going to need 1 of these guys just for the 80% speed boost at roundstarts.

[ProfessorWalsh]

firstly Babiegirlla = Precision Slash > Blade Rush > Blade Storm > Master Strike.... Your master strike will not be delivering its big hit in precision window.

 

secondly Stalzy = Precision Slash > Zealous > Master strike > Blade Storm... neither the final hit on master strike, nor the blade storm will be in precision window.

 

I like:

 

Blade Rush -> Blade Storm -> Precision Slash -> Master Strike

 

Myself.

 

Really melts through people.