1.2 First impressions (Commando)

[BoMbY]

Well, at least today I still took the most damage from Trooper Grav Rounds in PvP. I'm a Vengeance Juggernaut with full BM gear, and today I took 12.3% damage from it, followed by 5.3% Tracer Missile damage. (Damage total 764985, Grav Round 93941, Tracer Missile 40597). Okay, maybe we've just to many Troopers on our server ...

[SeloDaoC]

Well, at least today I still took the most damage from Trooper Grav Rounds in PvP. I'm a Vengeance Juggernaut with full BM gear, and today I took 12.3% damage from it, followed by 5.3% Tracer Missile damage. (Damage total 764985, Grav Round 93941, Tracer Missile 40597). Okay, maybe we've just to many Troopers on our server ...

 

Or you batman fly to all the commandos and bh, forcing them to spam tracer/grav with the little utilities they have to fight you back :/

[Diebacca]

PVP

 

healing is a joke now, if you get targeted you die within 1 stun. if you're lucky enough to get your shield up before that you last as long as your shield.

Its not like im under geared . full bm healing 1100+ expertise.

 

DPS dont even need to try interrupt your heals now. You just fall over for them.

 

Ammo, just wow how stupid can bw get? maybe they think well you're useless after 5 heals cos you have no ammo anyway may aswell die right?.

 

PVE

 

Ammo again is a massive problem. i did lost island hard mode this morning. Ive got mostly Rakata gear. i found it a lot harder than it would have been last patch. Saying that

we cleared it all. And now knowing the fights it would be a bit easier.

Lost island would be a walk in the park for an Operative/Scoundrel.

 

So really for troopers nothing good came out of 1.2 as a healer anyway.

[Thekze]

nevermind this post. Edited April 12, 2012 by Thekze

[Roundtable]

i m full BM gear commando , tried in warzone after 1.2 , i hit 500-900dmg on maraudor with my grav-round , *** of this nerf .......... remember that GR 1.3s cast time needed

 

 

after 3 match warzone , i unsubbed

[Flying-Brian]

My observations are about the same as what has been said.

 

Crit chance is lower right now, from the nerf to the skill tree and the re-stating of BM gear. I noticed a big hit from having to pull the crit/surge enhancements I was using, to go back to the 110% accuracy for everyone that bioware thinks the gear should have. It's going to take almost 2 more full sets of BM gear, to pull enough mods and enhancements to get my stats back where they should be.

 

Damage from grav round seem off. It was lower, but not as low as I was expecting, most likely from the damage increase from the extra expertise.

 

Demo round had a noticeable damage increase. It would hit for 5k+ most of the time, but not enough to make up for the lost damage from grav round.

 

Mortar volley. This was the hardest hitting nerf I observed. While it was nice that damage starts at the beginning now (like how DFA has always been), the damage and radius reduction makes this useless as an aoe attack. I noticed when it hit, I would see about 3 ticks of damage for about 600 each. It was also lucky to hit more then 1 person (that the reticle was directly over) with any damage in the radius. It not seem to be able to cover the entire area around the cap points on alderaan.

 

Full auto did proc alot more, but I think that was one of the reasons for the higher ammo usage, as it was not crit'ing as much when used, to build ammo back up.

[MrDeda]

Pvp Commando healer here, I run full BM gear at 1150 Expertise and I'm seriously considering quitting the game. While the healing throughput could even be alright after the huge nerf, the damage I take is not even close to feeling balanced. Especially Marauder and Powertechs are tearing me apart.

 

I could get used to be more careful with my ammo (although the nerf is hugely overdone), but not having any tools to avoid damage, build range or simply get a few seconds to heal myself is just not any fun. The way I see it I'd be more of an asset to a team as a DD, instead of a healer who can't heal.

[SpaniardInfinity]

PvP (Valor 77 Combat Medic) - There is one thing that is clear: battles end ALOT faster now. If that's Bioware's intention, mission accomplished.

 

I presently have 1095 Expertise (my BM gear was itemized in 1.2) which nets me 11.71% healing done in warzones. That's slightly higher than what I had before, which was 10.98% (note that I dropped the BM glvoes and relics for Rakata). That's all well and good, until you look at the fact that damage now does 21.71% at the same level of expertise. That is almost double what it was before 1.2 and you feel every bit of it. Suffice to say healing feels incredibly disadvantaged to damage, and that's before I even consider class nerfs.

 

Our effective healing costs are up and that means we have to budget our ammo more. But there is so much more damage, it is pretty much impossible to budget if you expect to keep people alive. So far, I don't see this as a nerf. I see this as a crippling of the healer classes. (Smugglers aren't immune to this either, even with their buffs. They are facing the exact same PvP global change to healing).

 

PvE (Full Rakata) - I have not done the new Flashpoint or Op as of this post, but my guild is planning on the Ops later tonight. I have run a few dailies and a FP from pre-1.2 and found that ammo management is a lot more complex, but is fairly manageable assuming everything goes according to plan. Will update again as I face more content with this new setup.

Edited April 13, 2012 by SpaniardInfinity

[Diebacca]

i think this thread should be name

 

"1.2 Last impressions"

 

seeing as a lot of ppl will ether leave or play another class.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Diebacca

[BlackBaronUK]

i m full BM gear commando , tried in warzone after 1.2 , i hit 500-900dmg on maraudor with my grav-round , *** of this nerf .......... remember that GR 1.3s cast time needed

 

 

after 3 match warzone , i unsubbed

 

What, you couldn't just wait to see if they changed it or patched it again?

[Diebacca]

What, you couldn't just wait to see if they changed it or patched it again?

 

Im pretty sure ppl are over "waiting and seeing" with bw.

[NeverRose]

Do I DARE logging on my Commando alt...?

[RuQu]

What, you couldn't just wait to see if they changed it or patched it again?

 

All of these impressions exactly match what we were saying from the PTS.

 

BW didn't care then, what makes you think they care now?

[IIIDCManIII]

Played for only a little, could not stand how much weaker the Commando has been made to satisfy a random number BW created to judge us on. If they actually cared they would've seen the outcry that this was causing during the PTS and at least attempted to fix it. But who really cares, they are still going to be getting money as long as people still subscribe... Edited April 13, 2012 by IIIDCManIII

[ASHxHOUSWARES]

THIS PATCH IS COMPLETE CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hEALERS ARE NOW USELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I CANT HEAL ANYONE NONE OF MY HEALS WORK RIGHT, MY ABILITY TO GET FORCE POWER WITHOUT COST IS GONE.... MY CAST TIMES HAVE ALL INCREASED...

HEALERS WERE WEAK TO BEGIN WITH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE PVE IS COMPLETELY RUINED BECAUSE OF SOME STOOPID PVP GARBAGE???????????????? THE PVP SUX ANYWAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i WANT MY MONEY BACK i SPENT MONTHS WORKING HARD FOR YOU TO RUIN MY HEALER WHO WAS ALREADY TOO WEAK TO BEGIN WITH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ASHxHOUSWARES]

btw IF THIS ISNT FIXED FAST i WILL NOT GIVE YOU ONE MORE RED CENT!!!!!!!!!!!

NOT TO MENTION EVERYONE ELSE IS COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW YOU RUINED THE GAME AS WELL, OH WAIT THE TANKS ARENT COMPLAINING

Edited April 13, 2012 by Moitteva
avoiding language filter/edited

[Nitromonger]

Well, I appear to be in the minority here, but healing was OP overall. I have been playing as assault (rank 71), and will continue to play as assault. I a damage-fest such as voidstar, I have been top damage each time I've been in one. The nerfs hit Grav Round/Tracer Missle, but I've still had well played Gunnery commandos tear me apart. No knee jerk from me. I have a rank 55 shadow and I prefer to play my commando still.

[RuQu]

Well, I appear to be in the minority here, but healing was OP overall. I have been playing as assault (rank 71), and will continue to play as assault. I a damage-fest such as voidstar, I have been top damage each time I've been in one. The nerfs hit Grav Round/Tracer Missle, but I've still had well played Gunnery commandos tear me apart. No knee jerk from me. I have a rank 55 shadow and I prefer to play my commando still.

 

You aren't in the minority at all. It is very common for DPS players to complain that healing was OP.

 

Then again, it is very common for them to have no idea what they are talking about.

[erei]

Tested the 1.2 on my DPS commando, PVE only so far.

 

Mortar volley : useless. I'm happy if I hit more than 2mobs.

Grav round : I think I made a 1K hit once or twice... With a fully columi+rakata geared trooper. Also, the rakata/columi bonus (+15% crit chance with grav round) is now far less important.

HiB : less stacks, less use, less DPS

muzzle fluting : dear Bioware, if we avoid alacrity there is a reason. please, don't trade an energy management feat for an alacrity one, that's the most stupid thing ever.

 

In the end, the ammo management is more difficult, and damage dealt is less than before. Overall DPS is low (compared with my lvl50 agent, with far less gear). Relying more on FA than grav round.

 

Bioware want us to change our DPS rotation (that's a good idea), but they didn't think almost half the gunnery feat are linked to grav round, in one way or another. Nerf grav round to oblivion if you want to, but we will still need to spam it to increase both survivability and DPS. In the end, we won't change our rotation, because we can't, we will just be nerfed hard.

 

 

I used to have a DPS commando, I will play my sniper more from now on.

[AzKnc]

Gunnery destroyes people, tried it again today and i've seen 5-6k + demos left and right, with 2.5-2.7k full auto ticks, but as soon as someone targets you, you're done. 0 survivability 0 utility. It's good damage wise, but if people actually target you, you need HEAVY baby sitting or you're worse than useless. So it's still a very "meh" spec from where i stand tbh. There's classes doing the same or more damage which also have insane survivability and a wide variety of clownish cds.

 

Medic is basically the same as before except it's easier to run out of ammo, it's not a bad spec but as soon there's some dps with 2 fingers and half a brain on the opposite team you're going to cry since healing in this game is pitiful compared to the damage that flies around all over the place. And if the character attacking you is a sentinel/marauder and you don't get help within 5-10 seconds you're probably dead.

 

Assault synergies with the ac were terrible before 1.2 and they remained terrible, plus it got nerfed with -10 on bolts and the 6sec internal, absolutely not worth it. If you have to be a gimp standing around doing damage until someone targets you and make his little ***** out of you, you might aswell pick gunnery cause it's better.

 

That's all from a pvp perspective ofc, in pve gunnery is probably better than before, while medic is harder/less effective because of the ammo nerfs, they were really uncalled for.

Edited April 13, 2012 by AzKnc

[SpaniardInfinity]

Did want to update y'all on my preliminary experience through Explosive Conflict. I have found that ammo management in PvE has changed, and it pretty much requires Supercharged Cells. In fact, I no longer use Supercharged Cells for its healing buffs/Kolto Shield; I only use it for keeping my ammo supply up. My trick so far has been the following:

 

As soon as Supercharged Cells comes up (if ammo is less than 8), activate it. Use AMP > MP > AMP. Cast MP and while casting, cancel the Supercharge by clicking on its icon. Doing so means the MP in progress will have a reduced cost, and will also build 6 charges of the next Supercharge. Also, because of the way SCC works, doing this means that you'll next AMP will be off CD immediately after. That means you can chain up another AMP/MP.

 

So far, this has kept me ammo neutral most of the time. Low-cost abilities obviously help significantly.

Edited April 13, 2012 by SpaniardInfinity

[RuQu]

Did want to update y'all on my preliminary experience through Explosive Conflict. I have found that ammo management in PvE has changed, and it pretty much requires Supercharged Cells. In fact, I no longer use Supercharged Cells for its healing buffs/Kolto Shield; I only use it for keeping my ammo supply up. My trick so far has been the following:

 

As soon as Supercharged Cells comes up (if ammo is less than 8), activate it. Use AMP > MP > AMP. Cast MP and while casting, cancel the Supercharge by clicking on its icon. Doing so means the MP in progress will have a reduced cost, and will also build 6 charges of the next Supercharge.

 

So far, this has kept me ammo neutral most of the time. Low-cost abilities obviously help significantly.

 

Thanks for this. You lose out mathematically on the % healing buff that way. With 2 APs and one MP cast during SCC, that is 1.5*2+2 = 5s of SCC cast time. The charge-up time on CSC takes 15s and equates to an average of 1.65% healing buff. With 5s of 5% from SCC, this means your average healing % buff from CSC/SCC is 2.49%. That's notably worse than simply sitting on 30 stacks of CSC, and substantially worse than the 5.46% average of 13s SCC used every chance in 1.1.5.

 

Also worth pointing out this strategy makes the set bonus worthless.

 

That said, while this strategy really seems to negate the whole design of the healing bonuses on those two abilities, if it is the only way to maintain enough Ammo, then that is what you have to do.

 

I'll update the Combat Medic Guide stickies with this advice.

[DeevBach]

When I saw all the posts complaining about the "nerf" I was a bit nervous about logging in. From a purely PVE standpoint I really don't see that much of a nerf. DPS is down a little, but I was still able to solo both the Ilum and Belsavis +2 heroics. The fight against the first "boss" on Belsavis was a little tougher, but hardly what I would call an epic nerf.

[RuQu]

Did want to update y'all on my preliminary experience through Explosive Conflict. I have found that ammo management in PvE has changed, and it pretty much requires Supercharged Cells. In fact, I no longer use Supercharged Cells for its healing buffs/Kolto Shield; I only use it for keeping my ammo supply up. My trick so far has been the following:

 

As soon as Supercharged Cells comes up (if ammo is less than 8), activate it. Use AMP > MP > AMP. Cast MP and while casting, cancel the Supercharge by clicking on its icon. Doing so means the MP in progress will have a reduced cost, and will also build 6 charges of the next Supercharge. Also, because of the way SCC works, doing this means that you'll next AMP will be off CD immediately after. That means you can chain up another AMP/MP.

 

So far, this has kept me ammo neutral most of the time. Low-cost abilities obviously help significantly.

 

This is what I put in, let me know if you agree with how I'm depicting your experience:

 

Note: SpaniardInfinity reported back with early results of the new Operation, Explosive Conflict. He found that Ammo management was sufficiently tight he had no choice but to use SCC every time it was available for the 1 Ammo returned. He would pop SCC, cast AP/MP/AP and then manually click off the SCC buff so the next MP would generate 6 CSC charges and allow him to use SCC again sooner.

 

This strategy completely negates the 2pc set bonus, decreases your average healing bonus % from CSC/SCC to a mere 2.46%, and largely prevents the use of SCC for the utility of KB's DR shield (the strength of which was cut in half anyway). However, with all of the reductions to our Ammo efficiency in this patch, it may be that this is how we are forced to play.

 

I will also add in an option in my simulator to set a maximum manual duration for SCC to simulate clicking it off.

[SpaniardInfinity]

This is what I put in, let me know if you agree with how I'm depicting your experience:

 

 

 

I will also add in an option in my simulator to set a maximum manual duration for SCC to simulate clicking it off.

 

Should be worth noting that the rotation there is in a high-damage situation. In lesser damage situations, I click off sooner and resume healing. I am also working in Hammershot and/or Bacta Infusion whenever possible to keep ammo costs down. Ideally, have one of these free abilities as every other GCD to help keep track of my ammo cost (this is a habit I've gotten used to).

 

I'll pay a little closer attention to my patterns as I go forward.

Edited April 13, 2012 by SpaniardInfinity