Expertise and Healing

[KaneCG]

I'm wondering how healers fair at getting medals in warzones with these changes

 

well before patch 1.2 a healer could actually keep hims self up with 2 people on him ( could not heal anyone else) but could heal yourslef at least . Now a single person can take out a sorc healer one on one anyone one can

 

stwor really screwed that up

[Vouda]

They should add the ability to get medals for being killed lol

[JediDuckling]

So not only did you nerf Sage healing in WZ's, you nerfed all healing via Expertise bonus?

 

***????

 

Obviously no one wants healers in thier DPS WZ's....lol

 

healing was already hard enough as you can be killed solo.but now healing got nearfed across the board and expertise nerfed and as im a commando healer got screwed over.

 

lol there is going to be no healers in warzones. people will cry and then damage will get nerfed across the board

 

 

sort it out lol

[JediDuckling]

I was always under the impression that a healer was just supposed to prolong someones death not "I know 3 people are beating on one guy but imma throw out this magic beam of energy that turns you into superman"

 

There have been numerous times where in a warzone me and another guy would pound on a healer and they (operative) would just stand there and click a button on a remote and pop half there health is magically back.

 

lol you on crack ?

 

if a healer is spamming everything he has on someone i think it will onl prospone his death as a healer would not be able to out heal 3 dps attacking a player.

 

you must be bad if you cant kill 1 person being healed by 1 healer that you have you and 2 others attacking

[Khoraji]

Im sorry but this patch for pvp changes blows. Don't say that healing is fine and it all equals out, it doesnt. I understand the exploit (double dipping) needed a nerf but BW just wrecked healing all together. Not only did u nerf Sorc/Sage to ground (aside from fixing the bug) but they also increased Dmg from expertise AND lowered Healing output in pvp....really?

 

Don't expect very many healers in Wz's, and if you do find 1, they won't be for long.

 

They didn't lower it. From the numbers I am seeing. +healing % is about the same as it was. DMG just got buffed enough so that DMG mitigation now cancels it out completely, instead of scaling ahead.

[DasHillBilly]

They didn't lower it. From the numbers I am seeing. +healing % is about the same as it was. DMG just got buffed enough so that DMG mitigation now cancels it out completely, instead of scaling ahead.

 

As an imperial operative healer with 1,000 expertise with new stats on gear healing bonus is now approx 10%

 

Before in the same gear it was 13%.

 

Dmg went from 13% to 20%

 

Dmg reduction from 13% to 16%.

 

So yes overall healing have been nerfed. Before the nerf I had some great fights with good players, some took me down and sometimes I got away while trying to heal someone else.

 

Now it's a oneway fight a dps with the same gear as a healer will always win if they ofc got the same player skills.

 

I think the reason for the nerf was that a lot of ppl began crying about healers, the same people who don't even know what interrupt is. And some ppl are saying they cannot kill 1 person with 3 ppl hitting him while a healer is healing that person... If you got a healer and a dps and you are 3xdps... Maybe it's time to go for the healer first then the dps... I am seriously disappointed about the way Star Wars is going.

 

LESS PLAYERSKILL, MORE CLASS SKILL. WoW anyone?

 

Anyway now I tested it and yes a healer in a wz is now just someone who is taking up a valuable spot for a dps.

 

I just unsubbed, now I know some of you will begin writing l2p etc. Tbh Idc, I got both a dps and a healer as mains. But they just took away any incitement to heal in pvp. Making the game onehanded with more burst than before.

 

They just effectively removed a lot of fun fights where it came down to timing etc. for faster fights with more dmg, press your cd and see who nukes the most.

 

GG...

[Bryzgalovvv]

I also do believe dmg got buffed across the board. im a level 48 Commando heal spec, i queued for a wz and a level 30 juggernaut hit me for 3.5k, Um seriously???? Thats never happened before. Not to mention i get shat on by single targets now. this new system is crap

[Khoraji]

As an imperial operative healer with 1,000 expertise with new stats on gear healing bonus is now approx 10%

 

Before in the same gear it was 13%.

 

Dmg went from 13% to 20%

 

Dmg reduction from 13% to 16%.

 

So yes overall healing have been nerfed. Before the nerf I had some great fights with good players, some took me down and sometimes I got away while trying to heal someone else.

 

I think the reason for the nerf was that a lot of ppl began crying about healers, the same people who don't even know what interrupt is. And some ppl are saying they cannot kill 1 person with 3 ppl hitting him while a healer is healing that person... If you got a healer and a dps and you are 3xdps... Maybe it's time to go for the healer first then the dps... I am seriously disappointed about the way Star Wars is going.

 

LESS PLAYERSKILL, MORE CLASS SKILL. WoW anyone?

 

 

If you do the math on +20% dmg and -16% dmg, they now cancel each other out almost perfectly. Before 1.2, dmg mitigation scaled ahead so DPS was getting the shaft.

 

at 20%dmg and 16%dmg mitigation:

1000 dmg turns into 1200 dmg. 1200dmg is reduced by 16 percent making it 1008 dmg done. Not that big of a buff IMO

 

Healing #'s may have been reduced by about 1% judging by your numbers. Not that big of a deal IMO.

 

But maybe there is more to it. Apparently some classes burst has been increased...and of course merc/sage healing has been nerfed, that doesnt help.

 

 

-Edit: if your still in the 10-49 bracket, pls dont complain. No one is going to balance the game around 10-49 pvp.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Khoraji

[Emencie]

As an imperial operative healer with 1,000 expertise with new stats on gear healing bonus is now approx 10%

 

Before in the same gear it was 13%.

 

Dmg went from 13% to 20%

 

Dmg reduction from 13% to 16%.

 

So yes overall healing have been nerfed.

You and nearly everyone in this thread are presenting a case that simply isn’t there. You are looking at big numbers on the DPS increase and not actually thinking about the math behind it.

 

If you had 12% Expertise before 1.2 your combat looked something like this when fighting someone with equal Expertise.

 

1000 Damage attack now hits for 1120 (12% damage increase)

1000 Damage attack has 134 points mitigated (12% damage reduction)

Over all the 1000 damage attack deals 986 damage.

And any healing is increased by 12%

 

The change has nothing to do with healing but completely to do with making PvE gear useless in PvP.

With the new stats your combat will look something like this when fighting someone with equal Expertise.

 

1000 Damage attack now hits for 1200 (20% damage increase)

1000 Damage attack has 200 points mitigated (16.5% damage reduction)

Overall the 1000 damage attack deals 1000 damage.

Any healing is increased by 12%

 

Damage mitigation and damage increase from expertise were just fixed to be completely in line with one another. Healers still get a bonus on top of that. That is just a fix. You will take more damage from DPS As will everyone but again that is simply a expertise fix.

 

Even if they made it

Damage increase 100%

Damage reduction 50%

Healing increase 12%

 

All that does is make it so you have to use expertise in PvP. Healing is untouched (assuming you are actually wearing pvp gear.)

 

There is a lot to complain in this patch lets not get stuck on this because truly little changed.

[DasHillBilly]

If you do the math on +20% dmg and -16% dmg, they now cancel each other out almost perfectly. Before 1.2, dmg mitigation scaled ahead so DPS was getting the shaft.

 

at 20%dmg and 16%dmg mitigation:

1000 dmg turns into 1200 dmg. 1200dmg is reduced by 16 percent making it 1008 dmg done. Not that big of a buff IMO

 

Healing #'s may have been reduced by about 1% judging by your numbers. Not that big of a deal IMO.

 

But maybe there is more to it. Apparently some classes burst has been increased...and of course merc/sage healing has been nerfed, that doesnt help.

 

 

-Edit: if your still in the 10-49 bracket, pls dont complain. No one is going to balance the game around 10-49 pvp.

 

If I have 1,000 expertise I am not in the low brackets.

 

And you are clearly not a healer. Make one and test it out. That's the problem not going into a debate with someone who only tried a dps class.

[Bobb-Barker]

I bet you feel like Louis Winthorpe III right now. Welcome to Billy Ray Valentine's world! In the long run, this change will make you better. You've gone from a silver spoon to a plastic spork... But persistence and determination can get you through these hard times.

 

Genious :D:D

[DasHillBilly]

You and nearly everyone in this thread are presenting a case that simply isn’t there. You are looking at big numbers on the DPS increase and not actually thinking about the math behind it.

 

If you had 12% Expertise before 1.2 your combat looked something like this when fighting someone with equal Expertise.

 

1000 Damage attack now hits for 1120 (12% damage increase)

1000 Damage attack has 134 points mitigated (12% damage reduction)

Over all the 1000 damage attack deals 986 damage.

And any healing is increased by 12%

 

The change has nothing to do with healing but completely to do with making PvE gear useless in PvP.

With the new stats your combat will look something like this when fighting someone with equal Expertise.

 

1000 Damage attack now hits for 1200 (20% damage increase)

1000 Damage attack has 200 points mitigated (16.5% damage reduction)

Overall the 1000 damage attack deals 1000 damage.

Any healing is increased by 12%

 

Damage mitigation and damage increase from expertise were just fixed to be completely in line with one another. Healers still get a bonus on top of that. That is just a fix. You will take more damage from DPS As will everyone but again that is simply a expertise fix.

 

Even if they made it

Damage increase 100%

Damage reduction 50%

Healing increase 12%

 

All that does is make it so you have to use expertise in PvP. Healing is untouched (assuming you are actually wearing pvp gear.)

 

There is a lot to complain in this patch lets not get stuck on this because truly little changed.

 

My overall healing went down, so yes my healing got nerfed.

 

My healing was +13% from expertise yesterday, today it's +10% with the same gear.

 

So I played some wz to test it out, and yes as a healer you can feel it. Now I know the dps players who doesn't know what interrupt is will think this is a nice change and maybe it is. Now every one button spammer can kill any healer.

 

EDIT: I could ofc just play with my dps class instead of my healer, but I like being playing both roles. And my burst dmg on my sniper just got a bost, with expertise. So you can bend it what way you like. As a healer now you are as already said just taking a spot for a dps that are more valuable now in pvp.

Edited April 12, 2012 by DasHillBilly

[Masturomenos]

I bet you feel like Louis Winthorpe III right now. Welcome to Billy Ray Valentine's world! In the long run, this change will make you better. You've gone from a silver spoon to a plastic spork... But persistence and determination can get you through these hard times.

 

I dont understand y anyone would want healing nerfed. Why do u want to die more?

 

Ive asked this before but ill ask again which wz was more fun?

 

A. No heals u run in and die then rez run in and die then rez run in and die

 

B. You were healed and nevr died or died one or two times and both teams plyed a gme were the outcome was determined by the last minute score or cap because evryone stayed up nd dpsed while being healed?

 

How is it more fun to die? How can anyone want to die? Id rather stay up for an entire hutball with a score of 1 to 1 then get killed over and over with a score of 6 to 0.

 

Why do u wear expertise then? U know its a stat that is a healer just on your armor. Its a bubble that reduces damage until it reaches its cap. U want to stay alive and say dps is too squishy but then u wantto nerf heals?

 

Anyone for a heal nerf is a bad pvper end of story. Everyone whos good a pvp wants to be healed so they can outlast o out manuver their opponent. If yhou complain about heals then u want somone ele to do what u cant and thats set up a kill on a healer.

 

If you are good a pvp u know its a matter of time before u kill a healer if you bad then u want to be able to kill everone in 3 seconds.

 

Bad players nerf heals not healers bein OP.

[Emencie]

My overall healing went down, so yes my healing got nerfed.

 

My healing was +13% from expertise yesterday, today it's +10% with the same gear.

 

So I played some wz to test it out, and yes as a healer you can feel it. Now I know the dps players who doesn't know what interrupt is will think this is a nice change and maybe it is. Now every one button spammer can kill any healer.

 

In the same gear yes your healing dropped by a percent or two but that is because of the new Expertise cap and the way the diminishing returns work. Take some time to get the next set and you will see your healing will be exactly where it was before. However you will (along with everyone else) take slightly more damage. Expertise now completely cancels itself out in equal amounts as far as Damage and damage mitigation is concerned and healers just get a boost on top of that. If losing 2% healing in PvP is enough to completely ruin it for you I’m sorry it happened but it truly isn’t that big a deal.

 

With this change it seems that is their goal for the season sets. Every season you will upgrade your gear to stay (against others who upgrade) At the same level of bonus/mitigation/healing since the first 2 cancel each other out. The 3rd is on diminishing returns.

[DasHillBilly]

In the same gear yes your healing dropped by a percent or two but that is because of the new Expertise cap and the way the diminishing returns work. Take some time to get the next set and you will see your healing will be exactly where it was before. However you will (along with everyone else) take slightly more damage. Expertise now completely cancels itself out in equal amounts as far as Damage and damage mitigation is concerned and healers just get a boost on top of that. If losing 2% healing in PvP is enough to completely ruin it for you I’m sorry it happened but it truly isn’t that big a deal.

 

With this change it seems that is their goal for the season sets. Every season you will upgrade your gear to stay (against others who upgrade) At the same level of bonus/mitigation/healing since the first 2 cancel each other out. The 3rd is on diminishing returns.

 

As it is most ppl are in champ gear or BM gear. So yes the difference is there now, now all healers needs to get war hero gear to catch up.

 

And believe me it's not only 1% difference, you got to calculate with less healing in BM gear and taking more dmg. So it's way more than 1%.

 

It worked fine earlier, really good players could kill me, bad players were left in the trail. Now they made it according to your own calculation so I need war hero gear to be at the same level I was before against a dps still in BM gear.

 

I would wish for more fun fights instead of all attention going to gear. A game solely based on gear is not skill based but purely grind based. The pvp as it is becoming has nothing to do with skills, but who wants to grind enough.

 

I don't mind a little grind, but I already seen this before WOW...

[Emencie]

As it is most ppl are in champ gear or BM gear. So yes the difference is there now, now all healers needs to get war hero gear to catch up.

 

And believe me it's not only 1% difference, you got to calculate with less healing in BM gear and taking more dmg. So it's way more than 1%.

 

It worked fine earlier, really good players could kill me, bad players were left in the trail. Now they made it according to your own calculation so I need war hero gear to be at the same level I was before against a dps still in BM gear.

 

I would wish for more fun fights instead of all attention going to gear. A game solely based on gear is not skill based but purely grind based. The pvp as it is becoming has nothing to do with skills, but who wants to grind enough.

 

I don't mind a little grind, but I already seen this before WOW...

 

To be fair everyone needs to get WH gear to catch up to each other as everyone starts to get WH gear. Healing just takes it in another way

 

As a simplified example lets say that in season 1, 1000 expertise is the cap (example numbers)

 

Let’s also use the numbers we talked about earlier as the season standard.

 

Healing 13%

Damage 20%

Damage reduction 16.5%

 

Then we know that

 

50 Expertise per 1% of damage increase (20% at cap)

60.6 Expertise per 1% of damage reduction increase (16.5% at cap)

77 Expertise per 1% of healing increase (13% at cap)

 

When season 2 comes out, damage and damage reduction needs no change.

 

Season 2 has an expertise cap of 1350

 

50 Expertise per 1% of damage increase (27% at cap)

60.6 Expertise per 1% of damage reduction increase (22% at cap)

But healing would be

77 expertise per 1% of healing increase. (17% at cap!)

That’s just wrong… so instead Healing gets ever increasing diminishing returns.

103 expertise per 1% of healing increase (13% at cap)

 

But that means that at the start of season 2 people who had 13% bonus healing will drop down to about 9.5% until they start to gear up again.

 

If you are complaining about that then I agree it sucks right now. But healing didn’t get a nerf at all. You are simply not wearing the top tier gear anymore. You need to regear. And while I agree it blows at first hopefully BW keeps the jumps in seasonal gear small enough that healers only take an initial 1-2% change. Even now it’s only about 2.5% if you were in all BM gear.

 

I think it’s more the lower your gear was (champ /cent). But I think that is because the diminishing returns are not linear. But don’t quote me on that.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Emencie

[Khoraji]

If I have 1,000 expertise I am not in the low brackets.

 

And you are clearly not a healer. Make one and test it out. That's the problem not going into a debate with someone who only tried a dps class.

 

actually. i am a healer. Top 5% in my server if I can say that without bragging. I have been healing since launch, i leveled as a healer, etc.

[Khoraji]

If I have 1,000 expertise I am not in the low brackets.

 

And you are clearly not a healer. Make one and test it out. That's the problem not going into a debate with someone who only tried a dps class.

 

also, way to not respond to anything in my post because you know I am right. That EDIT wasnt for you, but the guy who posted below you.

[PloGreen]

Until you get a decent amount of expertise it wil be sub par.

 

670 expertise isnt that much anymore.

[Ahhmyface]

Thanks for owning the nubs, Khoraji. Edited April 12, 2012 by Ahhmyface

[Wraithwarr]

mmmm. Healers still benefit alot more from expertise...no reason to QQ

 

 

No,, they dont. As of right now with 1021 expertise I am sitting at around an 11% bonus to healing. My bonus to dps is around 20% . They have made healing a luxury rather than a necessity.

[Ahhmyface]

No,, they dont. As of right now with 1021 expertise I am sitting at around an 11% bonus to healing. My bonus to dps is around 20% . They have made healing a luxury rather than a necessity.

 

Read the rest of the thread, especially the maths, before you open your.. mouth/fingers..whatever.

[Khoraji]

No,, they dont. As of right now with 1021 expertise I am sitting at around an 11% bonus to healing. My bonus to dps is around 20% . They have made healing a luxury rather than a necessity.

 

I guess you didnt read this thread. Or the many many other threads about this before 1.2?

 

Ok let me explain this AGAIN

 

+20% dmg and +16.5% dmg mitigation cancel each other out. That means DPS get absolutely NO benefit from expertise AT ALL (assuming same gear).

 

+11% healing from expertise is not canceled out by anything

 

 

I am no math expert..but I am pretty sure +11% is more than no benefit at all.

[Ruuprect]

In the same gear yes your healing dropped by a percent or two but that is because of the new Expertise cap and the way the diminishing returns work. Take some time to get the next set and you will see your healing will be exactly where it was before. However you will (along with everyone else) take slightly more damage. Expertise now completely cancels itself out in equal amounts as far as Damage and damage mitigation is concerned and healers just get a boost on top of that. If losing 2% healing in PvP is enough to completely ruin it for you I’m sorry it happened but it truly isn’t that big a deal.

 

With this change it seems that is their goal for the season sets. Every season you will upgrade your gear to stay (against others who upgrade) At the same level of bonus/mitigation/healing since the first 2 cancel each other out. The 3rd is on diminishing returns.

 

lol the next set requires 84000 wz comms, no one will have this set for months. So as of now Healing has been nerfed and for many months to come. My heals are hitting for less in game than they were last night. As a Sage this may seem more extreme because of the other nerfs to my class, but I am not able to keep anybody up anymore and I can only stand in the corner as a single dps stomps me to the ground.

 

I appreciate your numbers but they mean nothing until months from now when everyone can get into WH gear.

[Wraithwarr]

I guess you didnt read this thread. Or the many many other threads about this before 1.2?

 

Ok let me explain this AGAIN

 

+20% dmg and +16.5% dmg mitigation cancel each other out. That means DPS get absolutely NO benefit from expertise AT ALL (assuming same gear).

 

+11% healing from expertise is not canceled out by anything

 

 

I am no math expert..but I am pretty sure +11% is more than no benefit at all.

 

 

Look, on paper your argument looks quite solid. All I am saying is, I have been doing warzones since this morning...People seem to be taking the same amount of damage they did before, my heals are not able to keep them up in the same manner as they were pre patch. Talk to any other healer who has been pvping today and you will hear a similar story.