AP vs. Pyro after 1.2

[Morticoccus]

From what I've heard one of the bigger complaints about AP seemed to be the need to keep opponents stationary or moving slow to nail flamethrower.

 

Will the new slow proc help with that, and if so does it make AP a more viable choice?

 

I'm currently pyro on my fresh BH alt, but I'm absolutely willing to switch to shield/AP, I just wanna play the spec that is most fun/takes least time to level.

[mjohnsonfhk]

id suggest checking the other 70 threads already posted on this topic

[Morticoccus]

I just did, and I looked at that 70% slow on FT proc...

 

They have effectively made AP the best anti-cap build (With an almost guaranteed kill in addition)

 

As soon as I get to tier 4 I'm switching.

[Aradax]

Pyro is still fine in 1.2 because of much predictable and sustainable damage output.

[exphryl]

You'll know by the weekend after a few days of people playing.

[Mapex]

Pyro is still fine in 1.2 because of much predictable and sustainable damage output.

 

Keep in mind that PyroTech is going to require a playstyle change as well if you fully wish to embrace it. If you played Firebug in beta then you know what to expect, but if you did not then here are some tips:

 

Don't spam Flame Burst; weave in Unload, IM, and TD more frequently with lots of Rapid Shots to help manage Heat. You aren't supposed to be frontloading all of your abilities.

 

Since it's the shared tree you want to play the PyroTech more like a level 1-10 Bounty Hunter who mainly operates at some range but with some melee mixed in.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Mapex

[CrunkShizzle]

You'll know by the weekend after a few days of people playing.

 

i guess it depends on whos playing it

 

i trust expieranced powertechs like Taugrim over "xxlikestracermissledubstep1"who rolled a powertech

 

but i dont know,ive looked at pyro and ive looked at ap and i just perfer the playstyle of ap better then pyro

Edited April 11, 2012 by CrunkShizzle

[Terrorshard]

I'd say 31 AP and 31 Pyro are about even now. AP went slightly up and Pyro went down a moderate amount. Makes me sad because vanguard/pt went from the 3rd best pvp class to the 3rd worst with 1 change.

 

Honestly which 2 classes gave PT/Vanguard the biggest problems? Marauders and Assassins...the 2 classes who either got better or didn't get worse. You can kiss those match ups goodbye.

[Assaultrooper]

I'd say 31 AP and 31 Pyro are about even now. AP went slightly up and Pyro went down a moderate amount. Makes me sad because vanguard/pt went from the 3rd best pvp class to the 3rd worst with 1 change.

 

Honestly which 2 classes gave PT/Vanguard the biggest problems? Marauders and Assassins...the 2 classes who either got better or didn't get worse. You can kiss those match ups goodbye.

 

/sad panda I can see AP rubbing the floor with marauders easily, Assassins are another thing altogether tho....

 

See the bright side at-least, AP is immune to 70% of defensive cooldowns, no longer will my Railshot be parried/shielded, or missed

[Karandor]

I'd say 31 AP and 31 Pyro are about even now. AP went slightly up and Pyro went down a moderate amount. Makes me sad because vanguard/pt went from the 3rd best pvp class to the 3rd worst with 1 change.

 

Honestly which 2 classes gave PT/Vanguard the biggest problems? Marauders and Assassins...the 2 classes who either got better or didn't get worse. You can kiss those match ups goodbye.

 

Marauders that give PTs problems, annihilation specifically, did get some small nerfs. Camouflage got nerfed to 50% DR (from 100%) for that spec which is HUGE for dueling them.

 

 

AP is much, much better than people give it credit for, after the patch it is going to be extremely nasty. I can beat most maras and tanksins as it is right now with good play as AP. After that patch I should still be able to beat them.

[Terrorshard]

Marauders that give PTs problems, annihilation specifically, did get some small nerfs. Camouflage got nerfed to 50% DR (from 100%) for that spec which is HUGE for dueling them.

 

 

AP is much, much better than people give it credit for, after the patch it is going to be extremely nasty. I can beat most maras and tanksins as it is right now with good play as AP. After that patch I should still be able to beat them.

 

I really don't see how. Marauders have considerably more dps. As well as much better defensive cool downs...and more of them, and crappy self heals. Equally geared I don't see AP beating much one on one. Fire Pulse needs a cool down reduction.

[ShiroRX]

Just be good. 95%+ of Sents/Marauders cannot play that class at all. I believe even Zoeller himself referred to this as correct lol.

 

Just be prepared to stun them when they're low before they guarded by the force, and stealth probe when they camo. Was a BM Sent before quitting nearly two months ago, and the best dual wielder on my modest server. Came back to try 1.2 (Sent doesn't seem as fun with all these buffs tho!, was more fun wrecking ppl when ppl thought they were garbage).

Edited April 11, 2012 by ShiroRX

[Karandor]

I really don't see how. Marauders have considerably more dps. As well as much better defensive cool downs...and more of them, and crappy self heals. Equally geared I don't see AP beating much one on one. Fire Pulse needs a cool down reduction.

 

They don't have more DPS and AP has way better burst. I beat mara's 1v1 all the time. It's often close but with good use of CC I generally don't have too much trouble.

 

 

The problem is people think that using RB and RS as AP is a good idea when it's really lowering your burst in PvP. Take the 8 points out of anything to do with RS and RB and put them in 9% aim, 4% reduced damage on IP/FB targets, 10s reduced CD on cryo grenade/electrocute and you will have better performance.

 

 

This has been argued to death in the 3 days as AP thread though so go there for a full lesson.

[Terrorshard]

Just be good. 95%+ of Sents/Marauders cannot play that class at all. I believe even Zoeller himself referred to this as correct lol.

 

Just be prepared to stun them when they're low before they guarded by the force, and stealth probe when they camo. Was a BM Sent before quitting nearly two months ago, and the best dual wielder on my modest server. Came back to try 1.2 (Sent doesn't seem as fun with all these buffs tho!, was more fun wrecking ppl when ppl thought they were garbage).

 

Yes that is great and all, except they are winning the damage race. AP can't go toe to toe with a marauder/sentinel. They will eat you alive. Yes there are bad under geared ones...but shouldn't be the argument.

[Terrorshard]

They don't have more DPS and AP has way better burst. I beat mara's 1v1 all the time. It's often close but with good use of CC I generally don't have too much trouble.

 

 

The problem is people think that using RB and RS as AP is a good idea when it's really lowering your burst in PvP. Take the 8 points out of anything to do with RS and RB and put them in 9% aim, 4% reduced damage on IP/FB targets, 10s reduced CD on cryo grenade/electrocute and you will have better performance.

 

 

This has been argued to death in the 3 days as AP thread though so go there for a full lesson.

 

Actually they do have more dps. A good chunk more. All the PT has in his favor are his 2 stuns. 1 of which will get cc broken, the other has to be used at the right time or else guarded by the force will smoke you.

[ShiroRX]

Yes that is great and all, except they are winning the damage race. AP can't go toe to toe with a marauder/sentinel. They will eat you alive. Yes there are bad under geared ones...but shouldn't be the argument.

 

Sure it is. Never did rage or carnage, but anni requires transcendent-like mental states to play to absolute max for an entire warzone. And Anni/Watchman are the only real threat to anyone. The class is basically balanced around most ppl don't playing them well, of course its a principle factor.

Edited April 11, 2012 by ShiroRX

[exphryl]

I do get mildly confused on the "I'm AP I always beat Mara/Sents" I read.

 

One of the benefits Pyro has is you can kite them. AP, especially now, gives you 0 luxury in that (As H.O is all that's available to keep any range for a small amount of time).

 

So you just stand there and let the terrible ones beat on you and hope you out dps them?

 

Not trying to sound like an ***, just a bit confused on the strategy being used here as AP.

Edited April 11, 2012 by exphryl

[Terrorshard]

I do get mildly confused on the "I'm AP I always beat Mara/Sents" I read.

 

One of the benefits Pyro has is you can kite them. AP, especially now, gives you 0 luxury in that (As H.O is all that's available to keep any range for a small amount of time).

 

So you just stand there and let the terrible ones beat on you and hope you out dps them?

 

Not trying to sound like an ***, just a bit confused on the strategy being used here as AP.

 

I don't feel like AP has a good match up against anything 1 on 1. This is really only important for getting crates in ilum at 1 in the morning but still. Steady damage and a smile just isn't enough to beat anyone.

[Karandor]

I do get mildly confused on the "I'm AP I always beat Mara/Sents" I read.

 

One of the benefits Pyro has is you can kite them. AP, especially now, gives you 0 luxury in that (As H.O is all that's available to keep any range for a small amount of time).

 

So you just stand there and let the terrible ones beat on you and hope you out dps them?

 

Not trying to sound like an ***, just a bit confused on the strategy being used here as AP.

 

With CC you can out DPS them by a large margin. With HO you can kite them. If they blow their CC breaker early on your AE stun you can hit them with the 4s stun when they get low and burst them before they can use the 99% damage reduction. With your fast move speed you should be able to kite them and circle strafe.

 

 

You do not go in to use RB or RP against a mara (unless stunned) and actually only use RP for burst after a PFT. You should only use RB against a stealther anyway, it's a wasted GCD otherwise.

 

If you can pull them before they leap it's also a big advantage to deny them some resources and prevent a free hit.

 

Basically IP/FBX5 while kiting with HO/HtL, AE stun, relics and adrenals and battle awareness, PFT/PG, CG/electrocute, RP/SS, Immolate/FP. If they don't break the AE stun save your 4s stun for their 99% DR. If they break the first stun your RP/SS + immolate/FP combo should kill them before they get to use their 99%DR.

 

Will all your CD running PFT + immolate + RP can hit over 14k damage. 12-13k will be normal.

[Agooz]

I do get mildly confused on the "I'm AP I always beat Mara/Sents" I read.

 

One of the benefits Pyro has is you can kite them. AP, especially now, gives you 0 luxury in that (As H.O is all that's available to keep any range for a small amount of time).

 

So you just stand there and let the terrible ones beat on you and hope you out dps them?

 

Not trying to sound like an ***, just a bit confused on the strategy being used here as AP.

 

I also am completely confused by these posts. I mean I see absolutely nothing in AP (live or post 1.2) that gives it ad advantage over any 1 particular class. The only thing the changes did is to narrow the gap in effectiveness between the two trees, that's it. It is now more of a playstyle and preference. But to come on the forum and say AP is awesome at taking a specific class, is ridiculous. There is nothing AP can bring to a 1v1 fight where a pyro cant be as effective if not more. Hec I often even score in Huttball as a pyro lol

[Agooz]

With CC you can out DPS them by a large margin. With HO you can kite them. If they blow their CC breaker early on your AE stun you can hit them with the 4s stun when they get low and burst them before they can use the 99% damage reduction. With your fast move speed you should be able to kite them and circle strafe.

 

I am sorry, so how is this different from a pyro? I dont recall APs having any tree specific CCs.

[Karandor]

I am sorry, so how is this different from a pyro? I dont recall APs having any tree specific CCs.

 

It isn't much different from pyro. People asked how I beat them and I told them.

 

 

People are just coming on here saying doom and gloom and OMG MARAS GONNA STOMP ME when the 1 good mara spec is actually getting nerfed (no more 100% reduced damage in camo is HUGE) and AP is getting buffed and I already can beat maras.

 

 

It's like beating a marauder is such a big deal. The game isn't even 1v1 anyway a good ranged team stomps marauders all day. The problem is people **** their pants, blow all their CC at once giving the mara full resolve and 20s of immunity. The biggest difference between a good marauder and a bad marauder is the good one has support.

 

The only class that really scares me in PvP right now is pyro/assault spec PTs/VGs.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Karandor

[Agooz]

It isn't much different from pyro. People asked how I beat them and I told them.

 

 

People are just coming on here saying doom and gloom and OMG MARAS GONNA STOMP ME when their 1 good spec is actually getting nerfed and AP is getting buffed and I already can beat maras.

 

 

It's like beating a marauder is such a big deal. The game isn't even 1v1 anyway a good ranged team stomps marauders all day. The problem is people **** their pants, blow all their CC at once giving the mara full resolve and 20s of immunity. The biggest difference between a good marauder and a bad marauder is the good one has support.

 

The only class that really scares me in PvP right now is pyro/assault spec PTs/VGs.

 

Yea I understand. I also do not see the pyro change being that consequential in dealing with marauders. I think your avg pyro will still have the upper-hand over your avg marauder.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Agooz

[exphryl]

With CC you can out DPS them by a large margin. With HO you can kite them. If they blow their CC breaker early on your AE stun you can hit them with the 4s stun when they get low and burst them before they can use the 99% damage reduction. With your fast move speed you should be able to kite them and circle strafe.

 

 

You do not go in to use RB or RP against a mara (unless stunned) and actually only use RP for burst after a PFT. You should only use RB against a stealther anyway, it's a wasted GCD otherwise.

 

If you can pull them before they leap it's also a big advantage to deny them some resources and prevent a free hit.

 

Basically IP/FBX5 while kiting with HO/HtL, AE stun, relics and adrenals and battle awareness, PFT/PG, CG/electrocute, RP/SS, Immolate/FP. If they don't break the AE stun save your 4s stun for their 99% DR. If they break the first stun your RP/SS + immolate/FP combo should kill them before they get to use their 99%DR.

 

Will all your CD running PFT + immolate + RP can hit over 14k damage. 12-13k will be normal.

 

This seems like an entirely best case scenario and generally getting lucky with the crits and the Mara not paying attention to using his Undying Rage. Nor the mara in your example snaring you after H.O ends.

 

The problem presents itself then, now what? You've exhausted all your resources and just medded up. You get jumped by a player that actually has skill. You become more of a free kill than ever now....

 

(At least from when I PvP pretty much every single Warzone I kill somebody and even before I'm back to full i'm battling somebody else. I do have enough tools however in Pyro to come out on top for long periods of time before a demise. Tools being snares and massive burst. Even without PPA Procs a Pyro burst is still very high)

Edited April 11, 2012 by exphryl

[Krytycal]

PTs are not going to kill well played marauders. It's just not going to happen. Please note that good marauders do not use their CC breaker to break out of 2 second stuns. Lets say your 4 seconds stun cancels out their undying Rage, then the fight goes to whoever has the highest DPS/best defensive cooldowns/heals.

 

Guess who wins?

Edited April 11, 2012 by Krytycal