Captain_Zone Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 But the goal of the war was peace. Yeah. If only. The goal is to give us a helluva game to play and war to fight. Great stories and heroic deeds. Unfortunately, war itself is ugly and brutal. Star Wars is a fantasy of how war SHOULD be fought. With Knights and Warriors showing honor on the battlefield. Yes, I ran my SW as an honorable bastich. Same with my Knight being an honorable vigilante. The stated goal may be peace, but the reality of this fictional fantasy universe is that War will always happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmthethird Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 I was on the ptr and I was doing the Jedi zone and this time around I was actually paying attention to what a lot of the jedi masters tell you, there is no emotion there is only peace and so on and so forth. I completely disagree. In fact the more I thought about it the more the sith code makes more sense, then I got to thinking does that really you'd be evil? I have a Sith Warrior with a heart of gold, and only resulted to violence when forced upon. It just got me wondering, can there really be a good sith? All I know is if this was real (I know that sounds silly) I couldn't stand being a Jedi, no emotion..sounds dull and boring, I would follow my emotions and use my rage to defeat those who would harm those I care about. What do you guys think? sith feed on fear and hate. they use these to augment their power and speed, that sounds pretty evil to me. also sith believe the darkside exists for confict and without confict there is no force. they believe the jedi don't understand this and this is why a jedi can't ever be as powerful in the force as a sith. there is an interesting part in "the old republic revan" when revan points out its his belief that the jedi's cutting themselves off from emotion weakens them in the force. and his loving his wife gives him more power i think a mix of the 2 is what is hinted at here, not that the darkside is better, but more that the lightlight could learn a trick or 2 off the darkside to become more powerful. not the real evil stuff of course we not talking kicking puppys here but as for your title question. sith are evil yes. the imperials on the other hand whole other question and conversation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Being Sith does not mean being evil, using the Dark Side is. I fixed that one for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Solrac Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 I fixed that one for you. Again, not ALL Dark Side Sith are pure evil either. Have already given examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Again, not ALL Dark Side Sith are pure evil either. Have already given examples. There is no such thing as "pure" evil. Using the Dark Side is evil. Period. Willingly do it makes you evil. Using the Dark Side makes you fall, I have given examples in the past hundreds, if not thousands of times on these forums. There are no "good" Sith that use the Dark Side. Using the Dark Side is evil, and it makes you evil unless you repent and seek to not use it whenever possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 I don't know why people keep saying that the Republic and Empire are on morally equal footing. Questing on Dromund Kaas and Korriban is completely different than on Tython and Coruscant. That and the Sith or other followers of the darkside of the force have started every single major conflict with the Republic and Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokdron Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 (edited) There is no such thing as "pure" evil. Using the Dark Side is evil. Period. Willingly do it makes you evil. Using the Dark Side makes you fall, I have given examples in the past hundreds, if not thousands of times on these forums. There are no "good" Sith that use the Dark Side. Using the Dark Side is evil, and it makes you evil unless you repent and seek to not use it whenever possible. I agree using the dark side will corrupt you. Heck kyle in jedi academy says you can learn any power you want and power is not evil its how you use it. *starts investing in dark side powers* kyle and luke start freaking out telling you to stop and be careful and all the other things. The dark side corrupts you the dark side wants you to think that you can control it thats another way it tries to make force users fall to the dark side. Bastilia in kotor talks about this. Oh and revan is wrong he tried to use both he fell to the dark side again. The sith are evil they were created to be evil by George lucas they are the anti of the jedi. Please don't make them out as something they are not. As a dark side lore and sith lore lover my blood boils when people say sith are misunderstood or sith are not really evil. Edited April 14, 2012 by lokdron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelther Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) I agree using the dark side will corrupt you. Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II portrayed this very well. There were 2 endings to the game, Light side and Dark side, and those ending were determined by which force powers the player decides to choose, so if u were leveling dark side powers u would get dark side ending, period. I mean think of the Dark side as The One Ring From LOTR, Frostmourne from Warcraft 3, Jack of Blades' Mask from Fable and so on... All of them provide incredible power but corrupt you in the end. In my opinion dark side powers should be forgotten forever. You can't play with fire and expect that nothing bad will ever happen... I've no idea why people want to pretend that those evil *****s are good. They are either totally evil or naive and ignorant at best. like I said before in this thread, how could a good person remain in a faction that has slavery, kills whoever refuses to be trained as a Sith and so on... I guess people just don't like Jedi, because they think that their code about emotions is dumb. But like I said in my previous post, if u would just think for a while, you'd understand that Jedi code makes a lot of sense, and explains why a person, who has been granted great power shouldn't act on emotion. So until they add a possibility for 'light side' Sith to replace their lightning with rocks, choking with stasis, etc, or let them defect (which is now available in a way, seeing as you can play imperial races on republic side, and the other way around), there is just no way they can be considered good. Edited April 23, 2012 by Aelther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 So until they add a possibility for 'light side' Sith to replace their lightning with rocks, choking with stasis, etc, or let them defect, there is just no way they can be considered good. Just wanted to point out that technically, Force Choke is not a Dark Side power. It's simply applying pressure through the Force to the windpipe. And I've heard nothing to say that you couldn't achieve Force Lightning through the means of drawing in the static electricity in the air and using that as projected lightning. Drawing on a different source of power, since the DS version is basically raw hatred and anger channeled into Lightning. But the LS variant is, in theory, possible through the manipulation of naturally occuring electricity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelther Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Just wanted to point out that technically, Force Choke is not a Dark Side power. It's simply applying pressure through the Force to the windpipe. I know that, but going around choking people doesn't really create an image of a 'good guy'. And I've heard nothing to say that you couldn't achieve Force Lightning through the means of drawing in the static electricity in the air and using that as projected lightning. Drawing on a different source of power, since the DS version is basically raw hatred and anger channeled into Lightning. But the LS variant is, in theory, possible through the manipulation of naturally occuring electricity. That's an interesting theory, but i haven't seen any Jedi casting lightning drawn from the light side. Perhaps because you cannot draw it from the light side. Like one wise Jedi Master once said (or will say if we consider swtor as now): "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack." - And lightning hurts the last time I checked... That's also why I don't take DPS Jedi seriously, all my Jedi are either Tanks or Healers. Edited April 23, 2012 by Aelther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiningriver Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Just because your sith doesn't actually mean you are evil right? Whether I am a sith or not does not correlate to me being evil. In fact, I think I'd still be evil when I'm a Jedi. But that's just me. Evil, but not totally evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) I know that, but going around choking people doesn't really create an image of a 'good guy'. That's an interesting theory, but i haven't seen any Jedi casting lightning drawn from the light side. Perhaps because you cannot draw it from the light side. Like one wise Jedi Master once said (or will say if we consider swtor as now): "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack." - And lightning hurts the last time I checked... That's also why I don't take DPS Jedi seriously, all my Jedi are either Tanks or Healers. Last I checked, getting hit by either a hail of pebbles shot at ballistic velocity, or getting knocked around by boulders, astromech units, and even a possible kitchen sink hurts too. (Consular abilities) Also, Force Stasis is basically just like Force Choke, except applied to the entire body. At least through game mechanics. And if you believe all that nonsense that the Jedi were pacifists.... Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Jedi were the biggest hypocrites in the galaxy. Now, there were exceptions, but not many. Master Timmns in the game during the SW storyline is actually one of those exceptions. He's about the coolest Jedi in the game, imo. And I don't mean just cool. He's Cool. As in, he has a laid back attitude, and doesn't even consider backstabbing the SW. He just goes with the flow. in the middle of a war, he joins forces with an enemy to achieve a common goal. Why? Because it makes sense. Go figure! Poor guy will probably get retconned for showing that common sense can exist in Star Wars, but hey. He's FREAKIN' COOL! lol Edited April 23, 2012 by Captain_Zone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElrohirEluchil Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Sith believe that the ends justify the means. Evil would depend on what that mean is. Destroying an entire planet to make yourself immortal is evil. Killing Jedi in defense of your Empire is not. You're walking in the shades here, since seeing as those Sith instigated the Assault, brutally murdering the republic defenders and even betrayed the republic when they sat down for peace talk. I'd say killing the defenders of the republic you assaulted can be considered evil. And no, being a sith, in its pure essence is corrupting and evil because it delves into the dark side of the force, focuses on power and domination and means justifying the end. There is no way anyone can remain good and call himself pure sith. Edited April 23, 2012 by ElrohirEluchil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velaran Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I agree using the dark side will corrupt you. Heck kyle in jedi academy says you can learn any power you want and power is not evil its how you use it. *starts investing in dark side powers* kyle and luke start freaking out telling you to stop and be careful and all the other things. The dark side corrupts you the dark side wants you to think that you can control it thats another way it tries to make force users fall to the dark side. Bastilia in kotor talks about this. Oh and revan is wrong he tried to use both he fell to the dark side again. The sith are evil they were created to be evil by George lucas they are the anti of the jedi. Please don't make them out as something they are not. As a dark side lore and sith lore lover my blood boils when people say sith are misunderstood or sith are not really evil. Keep in mind, in JA you can invest all the points you want into the Dark Side, you just need to invest nearly the same amount of points into the Light Side. Kyle's happy that you've managed to keep your balance in spite of all the crap thats raining around you. So apparently it is possible. Revan just failed at it. (With good reason, really. Three hundred years of mind **** will mess a guy up.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velaran Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Keep in mind, in JA you can invest all the points you want into the Dark Side, you just need to invest nearly the same amount of points into the Light Side. Kyle's happy that you've managed to keep your balance in spite of all the crap thats raining around you. So apparently it is possible. Revan just failed at it. (With good reason, really. Three hundred years of mind **** will mess a guy up.) Edit: Wait, hold on I recieved a great reply about the nature of the Dark Side in my Revan thread, so i'm just going to post it here: "The overriding philosophy in Episode I—and in all the Star Wars movies, for that matter—is the balance between good and evil." -George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I, 1999 "In each of us we to have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything." -George Lucas, Time Magazine article, 2002 "The idea of positive and negative, that there are two sides to an entity, a push and a pull, a yin and a yang, and the struggle between the two sides are issues of nature that I wanted to include in the film." -George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays "The Force has two sides. It is not a malevolent or a benevolent thing. It has a bad side to it, involving hate and fear, and it has a good side, involving love, charity, fairness and hope." -George Lucas, Times Magazine, 1980 "I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil—everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in 'Star Wars.'" -George Lucas, Times Magazine, 2002 "The Light is positive. It is intimately bound with the essence of living things; it is peace, harmony and knowledge. The Light Side springs from the great pattern of existence. It draws strength from diversity and tolerance. It is also inherently communal in nature, thriving on cooperation. Those emotions that enhance the existence of the whole flow from it and tap into its great reserves of strength and peace. Patience, humility and self-sacrifice are paths to enlightenment. Above all, it seeks harmony and perfection. The Dark Side, in comparison, is the force of entropy and destruction. Chaos and rage feed it and are its sources of power. The Dark Side is a part of nature — it is not inherently evil, but evil comes from its irrationality, its intolerance and its lack of control. ******* and predatory, domination is its goal. Mercilessly aggressive and unforgiving, its adherents are blinded by greed and lust for power over those weaker than themselves. The Light and Dark Side manifest themselves in the way they are used; they are simply different interpretations of a single aspect of nature, and they exist in balance with themselves and the universe. Just as with any aspect of life and death, both the Dark Side and the Light Side are intertwined with each other, are necessary to each other and form a cosmic balance." -The Dark Empire Sourcebook And Mortis clarifies this theme again. There you go. It's all about responsibility, balance, and being able to handle the power that you use. Edited April 23, 2012 by Velaran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElrohirEluchil Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Edit: Wait, hold on I recieved a great reply about the nature of the Dark Side in my Revan thread, so i'm just going to post it here: There you go. It's all about responsibility, balance, and being able to handle the power that you use. The Dark Side, in comparison, is the force of entropy and destruction. Chaos and rage feed it and are its sources of power. The Dark Side is a part of nature — it is not inherently evil, but evil comes from its irrationality, its intolerance and its lack of control. ******* and predatory, domination is its goal. Mercilessly aggressive and unforgiving, its adherents are blinded by greed and lust for power over those weaker than themselves The very nature of the Dark side in his own words are irresponsible, unbalanced and blinding. Responsibility, balance and handling power are all things attributed to the Light side. How can you look upon that description and think the Dark side is controllable? Heck, it even corrupted Anakin so much that he force choked his own wife, whom he would put higher then anything else in the galaxy, even Obi-Wan who was like a brother to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmthethird Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Whether I am a sith or not does not correlate to me being evil. In fact, I think I'd still be evil when I'm a Jedi. But that's just me. Evil, but not totally evil. your talking in terms of a game with light/darkside choices for both sith and jedi. if some1 was to write a book about the exploits of a jedi knight and he did darkside choice's through the whole book, like you can the game. there would be no discussion, we would all know that jedi has turned to the darkside and visa versa with a sith the fact is starwars is sposed to be an epic battle between good and evil, with jedi being the defenders of good. and sith being instruments of evil. ppl can swap sides (as much as they want anakin) but the premise is good/evi,l dark/light, ying/yang. and it is very easy to see who is on which side. Edited April 23, 2012 by grandmthethird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueRazorwind Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Its not so much the Sith who are the worst its the fallen jedi seriously they kill for the sake of it with no plan or stratagy they go from protecting people to loading the puppy furnece to blow up the planet of orphens that santa is currently visiting the whole falling to the dark side always gets me it makes it seem like people have no actual choice if you join the dark side you have to murder everyone for no reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElrohirEluchil Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Its not so much the Sith who are the worst its the fallen jedi seriously they kill for the sake of it with no plan or stratagy they go from protecting people to loading the puppy furnece to blow up the planet of orphens that santa is currently visiting the whole falling to the dark side always gets me it makes it seem like people have no actual choice if you join the dark side you have to murder everyone for no reason The Dark side, in GL's own words, is blinding those who use it/fall to it by greed and the thirst for power. So yes, those who fall to the dark side are fundamentally changed by it. It's somewhat different if you used the dark side from the start, but no Jedi have, and they often get overwhelmed by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velaran Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 The very nature of the Dark side in his own words are irresponsible, unbalanced and blinding. Responsibility, balance and handling power are all things attributed to the Light side. How can you look upon that description and think the Dark side is controllable? Heck, it even corrupted Anakin so much that he force choked his own wife, whom he would put higher then anything else in the galaxy, even Obi-Wan who was like a brother to him I'm just saying, the Dark Side isn't a corruption of the Force in and of itself. The Sith are human (or alien, whatever.) and as such are easily smitten with the power the Dark Side can provide. It's very easy to lose yourself and break any semblance of balance you have. That doesn't make the Dark Side totally evil, or balance impossible, it's just really dangerous, and it's chaos is alien to the human (again, alien, whatever) mind. Hence why the Jedi so easily fall to it: They grow up in an environment where they never need to process their emotions. They can just recite a code and be done with it. Faced with everything the Dark Side brings to the table, they just break down; The Jedi just have no real way to deal with their emotions. Anakin was even worse. He learned how to form attachments with people before joining the Jedi, and they never taught him how to deal with that, or anything else. They just told him to ignore emotions, and not form attachments. It didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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