Who Swtor was made for.

[Jett-Rinn]

The California Literary Review for one. "Storytelling suicide". Direct quote.

 

Furthermore, those 75 perfect scores are from reviewers who get paid to play the game but not finish it, not people who personally pay their own money to play the game. In addition, review "scores" have been under attack for years as an accurate representation of the product. Where have you been?

 

It also doesn't matter how many perfect scores you get when the last thing someone remembers about your product is that it failed to maintain its quality until the end.

 

Failed to maintain it quality what a load of crap; I was perfectly fine with the ending and so was a lot of people. The problem is the butthurt are crying because it wasn't the ending they wanted . When a game is written by it's players it is no longer art it's just pandering to a few self entitled cry babies.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

And it never once accured to you that lucas maybe doing stuff for bioware on there lead IP ?

 

Nope, honestly I do not believe that at all. I think they are only acting as licensor.

 

Reasons:

1. I think they´d never agreed to the Hero Engine if they had been involved in the making of TOR

 

2. TOR is not an "Open World RPG", I guess they´d used the correct term in their job ad

Edited April 9, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst

[Shingara]

Nope, honestly I do not believe that at all. I think they are only acting as licensor.

 

Right, so there biggest ip on the market is swtor, they get revenue from swtor based on profits and are advertising swtor themselves and you think they really are going to put in a direct competitor to there money earner that they have invested at best 6 years into ?

 

Least to mention its well known that ea companys do intergrate with other houses under there control and that you dont think the best people to goto on stuff like space would be light and magic ?

Edited April 9, 2012 by Shingara

[Gungan]

Failed to maintain it quality what a load of crap; I was perfectly fine with the ending and so was a lot of people. The problem is the butthurt are crying because it wasn't the ending they wanted . When a game is written by it's players it is no longer art it's just pandering to a few self entitled cry babies.

 

I don't know a single person in real life, or in my guild or allied guilds that thought the ending was any good.

 

Most don't advertise it on forums. They just think BioWare products are sliding downhill.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Gungan

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

Right, so there biggest ip on the market is swtor, they get revenue from swtor based on profits and are advertising swtor themselves and you think they really are going to put in a direct competitor to there money earner that they have invested at best 6 years into ?

 

Least to mention its well known that ea companys do intergrate with other houses under there control and that you dont think the best people to goto on stuff like space would be light and magic ?

 

Hold on a sec, did the money not come from EA and Bioware?

LucasArts gave the licence to the golden IP "Star Wars" (which gives a title a huge market value) so I guess LucasArts already got its fair share and they also profit from sales/subs, but I don´t think they took ANY financial risk or gave any investment (Why should they?).

Edited April 9, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst

[Shingara]

Hold on a sec, did the money not come from EA and Bioware?

LucasArts gave the licence to the golden IP "Star Wars" (which give a title a huge market value) so I guess LucasArts already got it´s fair share and they also profit from the sales, but i don´t think they took ANY financial risk or gave any investment (Why should they?).

 

You do realise that you dont just invest money into an mmo, you invest talent, ideas and concepts, you give the green light for this and the black light for that. You provide all the relevent lore and more then likly most if not all of the initial art concepts that were then developed by bioware.

 

You dont think that lucas arts have an invested interest into making swtor the biggest game ever to have hit the market. That the title of star wars will only bring in more profit and vision onto Lucas Arts and in the end make the name of lucas arts greater or worse dependant on how the game developes and survives within the market.

 

Lucas arts took a huge knock with SOE and you really think they are going to stand back and do nothing apart from just say here is a license do whatever you like, you dont represent us one bit.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Shingara

[Kaphik]

It depends on if you mean "hardcore" as in...

1. Want a challenging experience, so they do all hard and nightmare mode content.
   
2. Want to do everything in game. Absolutely everything.
   
3. Have nearly unlimited time and no life so they devote all of their time to the game.
   

If you're #1 and/or #2, then parts of TOR are targeted at you and it's on-par, if not better than many other MMOs for this.

 

If you're #3 then you're sadly out of luck, as you would be with just about every single MMO out there. The only exceptions might be sand-box MMOs, or seemingly neverending PvP like in EVE Online. TOR is an amusement park style MMO, just like WoW, in which those who spend their whole lives here are NEVER going to be satisfied as the developer will never be able to make enough content for you in a timely fashion.

 

I couldn't agree with you any more.

[Rivethed]

The difference between a HC and a casual is that the HC is willing for put in time and effort while the casual is just looking for instant rewards. So devs are coming up with pointless gimmicks to reward these casuals on the expense of longetitvity and keeping the other group satisfied.

 

Now, the kicker is that the casuals would have bought and played the games anyway because they're rarely researching, it's usually just a matter of reading the name for them. I can't remember seeing any forum, for any game, being filled by "this game is too hard" threads. I have however seen thousands of posts and threads asking devs to go back to the roots of the specific genre. Why can't they realize that if a genre or game is successful it's because they used to do something right? This goes double for games with sequels.

 

Almost got it- i'll give you a B for effort.

 

The difference between a HC and a casual is that the HC is willing for put in time and effort while the casual is just looking for instant rewards.

 

And what are the "HC" going for? What rewards? The same rewards as the "casuals"?

In a better developed game, the more time you put in the more / better rewards you get. That makes sense yes?

 

In the perfect MMO, all players would have access to all content; However, how far you get in "end game' content depends on how well you play / what you are willing to do ( research etc).

 

Still with me? Okay...an example-

 

Wrath of the Lich King, for World of Warcraft, was IMO, the best that game had to offer. Yes! it was "easy" to get epics but those epics were entry-level raid items. This means that even the Great Unwashed could at least gear up for ENTRY-LEVEL raiding; how you performed beyond that was up to the individual player.

 

But! Oh my the "HC" went ape-****. How dare these pigglings enter our houses!

 

And its a vicious cycle.

 

Blizzard did the right thing with WotLC, and I was hoping for more with Cata but...yeah. So I turned my gaze to SWTOR and...

[Tangenobi]

Incidentally, though, the hardcore demographic is a target audience. It's simply not feasible for the developers to focus on hardcore-oriented content while still building the groundwork for the game. Once the foundation matures they're likely to broaden their development to focus attention on all applicable audiences, the hardcore included because, lets face it, you guys rock the subscription figures; you bring in a lot of money, and it would be foolish not to try to capture your interest at that point.

 

I'm expecting the widening of the game's design objectives to begin this summer, possibly as early as 1.3. The dual task at that point will be to create and publish dynamic content for the hardcore crowd that will maintain their attention while simultaneously enticing those that have already left the game to return.

 

It's not going to be an easy challenge.

 

Yeah once the groundwork is finished you'll start to see what tgus game really has to offer...I had my most fun playing WoW not during vanilla, but towards the middle of TBC and WOTL. Once this games first major expansion comes out to me will determine the direction this game will go.

[Noviru]

Hey everyone,

 

We recently had to remove several posts for being off topic. A reminder that threads created in General Discussion should stay focused on Star Wars™: The Old Republic™, and should exclude any real life discussions concerning politics.

 

Thanks for understanding!

[Anysao]

(I won't lie, but This thread will be canceled. I made a similar thread, it's now in file z)

 

And good to hear your being honest. It is a bit ironic people get made fun of for being a new MMO player?

Oh here's a tip- if it's too easy, try NOT using a companion. I think companions tip the balance in your favor.

 

 

Thanks.

[BCBull]

"you don't spend 300 million on a game for 70k-100k subscriptions."

 

What world does this dude live in? 70k? gg BioWare.

 

I rather play a poor performing game than a game with this design philosophy.

[Sathid]

I consider myself a Hardcore gamer or used to that is,if people are searching for hard content then by all means go to EQ2 i still play it and the raids took over a year for top guilds to bring down some of the final bosses just maybe two months ago.

 

That said im tired of HC raiding,and the types of people that it generally brings with it,i do not like easy mode but i enjoy a middle ground and so far SWTOR has provided that.

[GalacticKegger]

"you don't spend 300 million on a game for 70k-100k subscriptions."

 

What world does this dude live in? 70k? gg BioWare.

 

I rather play a poor performing game than a game with this design philosophy.

Since you quit again in your last thread ... by all means. Edited April 9, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Shingara]

WoW just wow. I have wondered if they even play the game. With this stucture how could they?

 

That is one of the dumbest things i have ever heard, you actualy think that EA only make SWTOR ?

 

I dare you to guess how many games on how many platforms ea produces and looks after and id bet you would still be way off the actual number.

[Gavin_Darkl]

The words "casual" and "hardcore" are almost entirely without any concrete meaning. Mostly they're used as derogatory labels.

 

I am with Seregul here.

 

I get called a Hardcore elitist because I don't think players should get gear that drops off of raid bosses if they do not raid or cant down the boss. Too me its simple, and the same goes with people I raid with. If we have no reason to raid then cause its a challenge then we just will not do it. Right now we could do nightmare modes but guess what the gear is the same as hard mode, why put forth the effort. We look at this game like joining a bowling league if everyone got a trophy no matter if they won or lost what is the point of even showing up. But I am a hardcore elitist because I feel that risk + Effort = reward.

 

Anyways again people will vote with their subscriptions.

[Alconos]

i am so glad i dont have to be a hardcore mmo gamer to enjoy this lol

[Gavin_Darkl]

Almost got it- i'll give you a B for effort.

 

 

 

And what are the "HC" going for? What rewards? The same rewards as the "casuals"?

In a better developed game, the more time you put in the more / better rewards you get. That makes sense yes?

 

In the perfect MMO, all players would have access to all content; However, how far you get in "end game' content depends on how well you play / what you are willing to do ( research etc).

 

Still with me? Okay...an example-

 

Wrath of the Lich King, for World of Warcraft, was IMO, the best that game had to offer. Yes! it was "easy" to get epics but those epics were entry-level raid items. This means that even the Great Unwashed could at least gear up for ENTRY-LEVEL raiding; how you performed beyond that was up to the individual player.

 

But! Oh my the "HC" went ape-****. How dare these pigglings enter our houses!

 

And its a vicious cycle.

 

Blizzard did the right thing with WotLC, and I was hoping for more with Cata but...yeah. So I turned my gaze to SWTOR and...

 

WTOLK had 1 good idea. Entry Level raids And being able to get back up to the gear curve after a break from the game. This allowed people who had to take a 6 month break for real life a chance to get back into the raiding game. Good idea, problem was the skill level of players dropped during WOTLK. CC went out the window and it was a basic AoE tank and spank, blame it on the healers when someone died. Then they brought Cata out. Had Cata come out right after TBC no one would have had problems with knowing Star is sap, circle is sheep, square is trap. These were skills that players knew. They could do kill orders with the eyes closed, but WOTLK instances ruined this.

 

Had they left the need for CC and kill orders up, players to know their class in WOTLK only brought in what they did with gearing up if you step away from the game things would have been good. Also if they would have had better lock outs were you could only do a 25 or 10 man raid there would have been fewer guild jumpers.

[Gavin_Darkl]

i am so glad i dont have to be a hardcore mmo gamer to enjoy this lol

 

Alconos,

 

You should not have to be a hardcore MMO gamer to enjoy any MMO. However I feel that effort + risk = reward I look at it like joining a bowling league and trying to win a championship, not everyone should get a trophy. (Not everyone should get the raid gear off a raid boss. If they do not kill it they did not earn the right to the loot) Raids now a days can be done in 2 hours that is not hardcore by a long shot. I remember raiding 4 to 5 nights a week from 8pm til 4am. That was hardcore. Raiding from 830 to 1030 11 is not, its casual game play.

[Shingara]

WTOLK had 1 good idea. Entry Level raids And being able to get back up to the gear curve after a break from the game. This allowed people who had to take a 6 month break for real life a chance to get back into the raiding game. Good idea, problem was the skill level of players dropped during WOTLK. CC went out the window and it was a basic AoE tank and spank, blame it on the healers when someone died. Then they brought Cata out. Had Cata come out right after TBC no one would have had problems with knowing Star is sap, circle is sheep, square is trap. These were skills that players knew. They could do kill orders with the eyes closed, but WOTLK instances ruined this.

 

Had they left the need for CC and kill orders up, players to know their class in WOTLK only brought in what they did with gearing up if you step away from the game things would have been good. Also if they would have had better lock outs were you could only do a 25 or 10 man raid there would have been fewer guild jumpers.

 

Whilst agree with you on nearly everything you wrote i cannot agree with you on the gear curve and people taking a break part. the whole point of being in a guild and a hardcore guild at that is that you stay current with the gear curve within your guild for what you are going after.

 

Its also the responsibility of the guild to help players who have fallen behind even if that means most of the guild going back to previous encounters to help the people who have taken a break for 6 months to attain the required gear level.

 

Doing this does one of 3 things, First it helps the player who has been away for 6 months or so to fit back into the team as there designated role, Second to allow the player who has taken a break to see and master possible new fight mechanics and to experience old content they have missed as that is one of the most shouted things going that they do this so people get to see all content when infact it means most just bypass most of the content and hit the current played content. And Third allows the person who has taken a break to attain the required gear by downing the correct tier of content that is the step up to the next content.

 

This was the major flaw in wow when they removed the need for attunments, if they had left attunments in then it would have inspired people to see all content instead of badge farm until they hit the gear level required for the hardest raid that your guild had progressed to whilst you had been away.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Shingara

[Vexxeen]

so in other words your bad?

[Gavin_Darkl]

Whilst agree with you on nearly everything you wrote i cannot agree with you on the gear curve and people taking a break part. the whole point of being in a guild and a hardcore guild at that is that you stay current with the gear curve within your guild for what you are going after.

 

Its also the responsibility of the guild to help players who have falen behind even if that means most of the guild going back to previous encounters to help the people who have taken a break for 6 months to attain the required gear level.

 

Doing this does one of 3 things, First it helps the player who has been away for 6 months or so to fit back into the team as there designated role, Second to allow the player who has taken a break to see and master possible new fight mechanics and to experience old content they have missed as that is one of the most shouted things going that they do this so people get to see all content when infact it means most just bypass most of the content and hit the current played content. And Third allows the person who has taken a break to attain the required gear by downing the correct tier of content that is the step up to the next content.

 

This was the major flaw in wow when they removed the need for attunments, if they had left attunments in then it would have inspired people to see all content instead of badge farm until they hit the gear level required for the hardest raid that your guild had progressed to whilst you had been away.

 

For the most part I wouldn't disagree with you if most guilds would help out or that person would take the responsibility on themselves to organize raids. Problem is for the most part progression minded guilds often leave these players behind, not without reason I will say, and often times these players do not feel the need to organize these raids when they come back. They lease that part up to the guild officers/leaders to do it for them. Now with that said, it was much easier to get people geared up in a 10 man raid vs a 25 man raid because its much harder on non raid nights to get 10 people to go through older raids that they gone through then 25 mans. Look at TBC if they had a 10 man version of all the 25 man raids, a person that was done with T4 Kara and Gruul could get up to a guild that was in the Sunwell if there was a 10 man version of SCC and TK.

 

Also extended lockouts helped out. They did need to have some way to help get people back up to the gear curve, because without it many people do just quit raiding all together.

[Shingara]

For the most part I wouldn't disagree with you if most guilds would help out or that person would take the responsibility on themselves to organize raids. Problem is for the most part progression minded guilds often leave these players behind, not without reason I will say, and often times these players do not feel the need to organize these raids when they come back. They lease that part up to the guild officers/leaders to do it for them. Now with that said, it was much easier to get people geared up in a 10 man raid vs a 25 man raid because its much harder on non raid nights to get 10 people to go through older raids that they gone through then 25 mans. Look at TBC if they had a 10 man version of all the 25 man raids, a person that was done with T4 Kara and Gruul could get up to a guild that was in the Sunwell if there was a 10 man version of SCC and TK.

 

Also extended lockouts helped out. They did need to have some way to help get people back up to the gear curve, because without it many people do just quit raiding all together.

 

Well thats why nearly every hardcore guild run serious alt runs, there would be no reason for the player coming back to not drop into that group until they caught up. that said aswell nearly every hardcore guild has standbys and someone will have taken there spot which seems alien to alot of mmo players these days.

 

But i can remember when i used to raid seriously being the kitter/dps standby, i wasnt required for all fights and knew my role was to be on standby for specific fights when my role wasnt required the whole time within the raid. If you suggested that to most of the hardcores these days they would swear you were insane.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Shingara

[Bluerodian]

Right, so there biggest ip on the market is swtor, they get revenue from swtor based on profits and are advertising swtor themselves and you think they really are going to put in a direct competitor to there money earner that they have invested at best 6 years into ?

 

Least to mention its well known that ea companys do intergrate with other houses under there control and that you dont think the best people to goto on stuff like space would be light and magic ?

 

Yes. They would put in a direct competitor, because at the end of the day they stand to profit MORE by having TOR and TOR's direct competitor. LA would get to take from both sides at the same time.

[Shingara]

Yes. They would put in a direct competitor, because at the end of the day they stand to profit MORE by having TOR and TOR's direct competitor. LA would get to take from both sides at the same time.

 

I can only laugh at this as if this were infact the case LA would have just let swg carry on along its merry way giving money to lucas with no investment at all by LA.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Shingara