Who Swtor was made for.

[Ansultares]

As the Bioware Rep on the Pax East Panel said, to Paraphrase "your focused demographic is usually dictated by how much the game cost to make. In the future when these game can be made faster and for less money, I'm sure we'll see a lot of games aimed a niche audiences like the hardcore but for now, you don't spend 300 million on a game for 70k-100k subscriptions."

Just wanted to point out that I'm laughing at this.

 

"We went with a blockbuster budget, so therefore the industry standard is a blockbuster budget."

 

It's almost as amusing as the guy who said companions are now a "must have" feature for any MMO, because that's clearly a lesson BWA took to heart.

 

Also, it's obvious this needs to be linked again.

 

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=15386

 

The game was made for KOTOR diehards and MMO noobs. Scratch that; the game was made for MMO noobs.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Ansultares

[SerikFox]

I wouldn't say I'm a "hardcore" gamer, but I'm not a casual one either. Believe me, I play a lot. I don't have multiple level 50's yet, but in a couple weeks I will. So far, I have yet to come even close to getting through this whole game. I'm not even doing sith stuff - I'm just focusing on republic. I will have all 8 republic classes when I get done with my first account. I'll spend months (maybe years?) just making sure I know every class perfectly. I'll refine my build, get every one completely outfitted, etc. Then I'll worry about doing every single thing in the game. Maybe even do all the sith classes at that point on another account. For me, this game is amazing. The stories are fun, the combat is fast and precise, etc. And most importantly to me - I have tons of abilities. On my sentinel, I have the two bars on the bottom of the screen completely filled with combat abilities, most of the left bar is filled with combat abilities, and the right bar is all buffs and travel and etc. No, this game is not as big as say swg was. SWG had tons of content through space, collections, badges, etc. I see that coming to this game with time though. Customization is getting a huge boost with update 1.2, as are crafters. With time I see more open world pvp, more wz's, more flashpoints, more operations, more guild features, more space (possibly non-rail), more story, more everything. The #1 thing I'm excited about is the fact that, while bioware may still suck a little bit at tending to the mmo gamers (more frequent updates with small bug fixes plz), they are focusing on making small tweaks to balance classes and not huge class overhauls. That's one thing that I like, because it means that at least part of their focus is hitting the right spot. In time I think this game will have more - and better - content than almost anything else.

[Dkzero]

This is not a game aimed at the hardcore. Many HC gamers (like myself) are guilty of trying to make this game what it simply isn't.

 

As the Bioware Rep on the Pax East Panel said, to Paraphrase "your focused demographic is usually dictated by how much the game cost to make. In the future when these game can be made faster and for less money, I'm sure we'll see a lot of games aimed a niche audiences like the hardcore but for now, you don't spend 300 million on a game for 70k-100k subscriptions."

 

When I quit WoW years ago, I said i would wait for Swtor, as it seemed to have what i wanted from a game and after 7 years, it wasn't set in Azeroth.

 

 

What i hadn't (but should have) anticipated was the targeted audience and how wide the net Swtor was casting.

 

After hitting 50, raiding and rolling numerous alts to 50 It started to sink in that the overall difficulty level of this game is not what i expected. Then again, what I expected was based on what I had hoped for rather than what was most logical for the company and the subsequent game.

 

 

Basically we the minority, the hardcore few will never change the aims of this game and would be silly to even try to. Accept What the game is, then evaluate if it is for you. Anything more is just trying to change something that was obviously not meant for your play style.

 

 

Lol stop calling yourself "hardcore". There is nothing hardcore about sitting in front of a computer playing a game for hours on end. If anything it would make you softcore.

[Ansultares]

they are focusing on making small tweaks to balance classes and not huge class overhauls.

What? Have you even looked at the patch notes you claim are so awesome?

[Dayln]

Lol stop calling yourself "hardcore". There is nothing hardcore about sitting in front of a computer playing a game for hours on end. If anything it would make you softcore.

 

That is so true

[Erstok]

No MMO will ever be hardcore.

[Jett-Rinn]

Lol stop calling yourself "hardcore". There is nothing hardcore about sitting in front of a computer playing a game for hours on end. If anything it would make you softcore.

 

LoL and that my friends is /thread

[DarthDetonate]

So oddly enough this post has reached 11 pages and around that point, all original (insightful or not) dialogue and/or information devolves into random potshots.

 

Yes please /thread as it's integrity as collapsed and now has been deluded into opportunism.

Edited April 9, 2012 by DarthDetonate

[Darth_Moonshadow]

Lol stop calling yourself "hardcore". There is nothing hardcore about sitting in front of a computer playing a game for hours on end. If anything it would make you softcore.

 

Bow chicka bow wow!

[P-Funk]

As the vast, and I do mean VAST majority of players are casual, any MMO that did not cater to that audience is committing suicide, unless they are a niche game ( as has been mentioned as EVE is ) who isn’t in contention as a major MMO

 

You know for a non major MMO that isn't even worthy of any consideration apparently, people sure seem to talk about it alot.

 

As for how I define hardcore, I look at it from a personal point of view as someone who likes to extract a more complex and deep experience. Obviously there can be many definitions for hardcore and many will apply their own either personal or in many cases pejorative definition, but for my money I put it as follows:

 

I want a game where I don't feel like I'm on an easy automatic track to success. I don't want to feel like I can just switch my brain off and achieve. That feels hollow to me. I want to feel like if I invest some intellectual power into how I approach the game then I will receive a proportionate equivalence in reward. This to me shouldn't also necessarily equate to hours spent, but that definitely helps to make you better when developing any skill. I also don't equate hardcore to simply being a better twitch gamer. I don't think MW3 is a good hardcore game because I feel like its design is inherently shallow and in many respects panders to more aggressive and simple minded tactics.

 

My definition isn't easy to nail down, but I know that I am a very rare kind of hardcore because I mostly play games that exist in the realism modding community. I play Project Reality for BF2, I play ACE and ACRE mods for Arma2, I played full stop realism settings with community mods for Silent Hunter 3, I play full realism settings in online IL-2 Sturnovik. What do these games offer me? A game where being smarter than your opponent almost always beats a faster twitch and pure hours spent. If those hours are spent being intelligent then you're likely better, but being smart goes a long way in and of itself. These games don't necessarily equal hard hard, they're not nightmare hard most of the time, they're just complicated and involve a big amount of intellectual investment. They are also conducive to very very good teamwork. I play in tournaments in some of these games where you have 60 or even over 100 players working together. You don't find that in any mainstream casual game.

 

That is a pretty rare kind of gamer. They exist to my mind in varying degrees, some more mainstream than others, some more interested in the niche of the niche than others. As far as MMOs go these guys are often into Sandbox over Themepark.

 

I know that most games don't appeal to me. Every now and then I play against my style by going for something mainstream like TOR. I hope that there's enough intellectual meat for me to sink my teeth into. I loved KOTOR even if it wasn't insanely difficult, so I don't think difficulty is in and of itself a requirement for my kind of hardcore. Sadly I feel that casual gamers basically make endangered or even extinct my kind of game, hence why guys like me permeate the mod community. I tried TOR, I may stick with it, we'll see.

 

To me all I need to enjoy a game is an intellectual puzzle. Sadly this is something that doesn't enter most games. I feel like it was far more common back in the late 90s when gaming was an incomprehensible niche to the mainstream.

 

Anyway, I love the OP's positive message, and I roll my eyes at all the nob heads who desperately try to drag him into the mud and mock his sentiment. We the hardcore, whatever kind of hardcore we are, obviously have to struggle to love this game. Many of us will and have failed. We're here, we're sorry we bothered all you happy casuals, but maybe, just maybe, you'll see us find a way to love the game with you.

 

I just hope that the average gamer can learn to not throw so much crap at hardcore gamers. Its too easy to be on the side of the majority, especially when you're part of it.

Edited April 9, 2012 by P-Funk

[Gungan]

Casual gamers don't maintain subscriptions to one game for years. That's the simple fact.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

Oh well back on topic..

 

I say it´s "World of Starwars" - so the game is for the "World of Warcraft" fans who like Star Wars/Sci Fi more than medieval settings.

 

Who else should it be made for?? Isn´t it obvious...?

[MMornard]

Casual gamers don't maintain subscriptions to one game for years. That's the simple fact.

 

Citation for your data, please. I'm a casual gamer and I subscribed to WoW for five years.

 

Please show where you obtained objectively verifiable data.

[DieAlteHexe]

Casual gamers don't maintain subscriptions to one game for years. That's the simple fact.

 

Hmmm. I would argue with that given that I've had a sub. to LotRo since its release. I had a WoW sub from release 'til whenever BC came out. EQ? Gonna guess that was 5 years. UO? 2 years. DAoC, a year and a half at least.

[MMornard]

I want a game where I don't feel like I'm on an easy automatic track to success. I don't want to feel like I can just switch my brain off and achieve. That feels hollow to me. I want to feel like if I invest some intellectual power into how I approach the game then I will receive a proportionate equivalence in reward.

 

I am casual.

 

I play SWTOR instead of watching TV. When Guild Wars became more effort than watching TV, I stopped playing.

 

I do this when I want to switch my brain off, when building a model train car is too demanding.

[Dayln]

You know for a non major MMO that isn't even worthy of any consideration apparently, people sure seem to talk about it alot.

 

As for how I define hardcore, I look at it from a personal point of view as someone who likes to extract a more complex and deep experience. Obviously there can be many definitions for hardcore and many will apply their own either personal or in many cases pejorative definition, but for my money I put it as follows:

 

I want a game where I don't feel like I'm on an easy automatic track to success. I don't want to feel like I can just switch my brain off and achieve. That feels hollow to me. I want to feel like if I invest some intellectual power into how I approach the game then I will receive a proportionate equivalence in reward. This to me shouldn't also necessarily equate to hours spent, but that definitely helps to make you better when developing any skill. I also don't equate hardcore to simply being a better twitch gamer. I don't think MW3 is a good hardcore game because I feel like its design is inherently shallow and in many respects panders to more aggressive and simple minded tactics.

 

My definition isn't easy to nail down, but I know that I am a very rare kind of hardcore because I mostly play games that exist in the realism modding community. I play Project Reality for BF2, I play ACE and ACRE mods for Arma2, I played full stop realism settings with community mods for Silent Hunter 3, I play full realism settings in online IL-2 Sturnovik. What do these games offer me? A game where being smarter than your opponent almost always beats a faster twitch and pure hours spent. If those hours are spent being intelligent then you're likely better, but being smart goes a long way in and of itself. These games don't necessarily equal hard hard, they're not nightmare hard most of the time, they're just complicated and involve a big amount of intellectual investment. They are also conducive to very very good teamwork. I play in tournaments in some of these games where you have 60 or even over 100 players working together. You don't find that in any mainstream casual game.

 

That is a pretty rare kind of gamer. They exist to my mind in varying degrees, some more mainstream than others, some more interested in the niche of the niche than others. As far as MMOs go these guys are often into Sandbox over Themepark.

 

I know that most games don't appeal to me. Every now and then I play against my style by going for something mainstream like TOR. I hope that there's enough intellectual meat for me to sink my teeth into. I loved KOTOR even if it wasn't insanely difficult, so I don't think difficulty is in and of itself a requirement for my kind of hardcore. Sadly I feel that casual gamers basically make endangered or even extinct my kind of game, hence why guys like me permeate the mod community. I tried TOR, I may stick with it, we'll see.

 

To me all I need to enjoy a game is an intellectual puzzle. Sadly this is something that doesn't enter most games. I feel like it was far more common back in the late 90s when gaming was an incomprehensible niche to the mainstream.

 

Anyway, I love the OP's positive message, and I roll my eyes at all the nob heads who desperately try to drag him into the mud and mock his sentiment. We the hardcore, whatever kind of hardcore we are, obviously have to struggle to love this game. Many of us will and have failed. We're here, we're sorry we bothered all you happy casuals, but maybe, just maybe, you'll see us find a way to love the game with you.

 

I just hope that the average gamer can learn to not throw so much crap at hardcore gamers. Its too easy to be on the side of the majority, especially when you're part of it.

 

 

I’m not throwing "crap" yes people talk about EVE, but they don’t subscribe to it ( chuckle ), not in the numbers that a mainstream game like SWTOR expects

 

I’m not throwing "crap" I am stating what is a very VERY obvious fact, one that nearly every MMO player already knows.

 

That there are a multitude of players that are casual for every one that considers themselves "hardcore", and that they all pay the same monthly fee to play, except the casual gamer is not taking up as much of the resources as a "hardcore" player is

 

Any non niche MMO game had better cater to the casual player, or get ready to close up shop.

 

That isn’t an opinion, that is the reality that some folks just don’t want to face.

 

You cannot make a successful large scale MMO game without catering to the vast majority of your audience.

[Dayln]

Casual gamers don't maintain subscriptions to one game for years. That's the simple fact.

 

We already know that isn’t true

 

Better go find a fact that actually is a fact if you want to be taken seriously

 

You arent saying there are ( or were ) 12 million Hardcore players playing WoW are you?

Edited April 9, 2012 by Dayln

[MMornard]

Absolutely nothing sir. Again, this post was aimed am my more vocal HC brethren wanting something I don't believe was intended (at least for now) as evidenced By the SWTOR Panel discussion.

 

Well done.

 

I can understand not liking the game; non disputatus de gustibus and all that.

 

What I don't understand is the hatred I have seen on this forum directed towards casual players. I have never before seen "casuals" used as an insult... and "bads"? Really? I mean, REALLY?

 

Congrats to you for wanting to stay civil.

[Gungan]

Well done.

 

I can understand not liking the game; non disputatus de gustibus and all that.

 

What I don't understand is the hatred I have seen on this forum directed towards casual players. I have never before seen "casuals" used as an insult... and "bads"? Really? I mean, REALLY?

 

Congrats to you for wanting to stay civil.

 

Odd, I see casuals bashing "hardcore basement dwellers with no lives" just as much if not more.

[DieAlteHexe]

Odd, I see casuals bashing "hardcore basement dwellers with no lives" just as much if not more.

 

There are hotheads on both "sides". From years of reading and moderating boards...I'm gonna say it usually comes out about even.

[MMornard]

OP is a little misguided. If a game loses the hardcore players they lose more than just subscriptions. Hardcore players not playing leads to all kinds of negative press,,,from reviews, blogs, and videos. This impacts many more people because people wont decide to play the game in the first place.

 

Citation of facts, please.

[GreySix]

This game isn't aimed at anyone. Everything they have done forces you to stay at the fleet which is horrible. The fleet is pretty much a lobby from where you either do raiding or pvp. Most people won't even bother leaving because of loading into a planet is painful. This is a very poorly designed MMO that shows one thing, the name Star Wars is very powerful because it can make a turd shine.

 

Well that's odd, because my wife and I enjoy the game immensely (so it's aimed at us), as do apparently many others. The nice thing is that nobody is holding a gun at your head and forcing you to play this one.

 

So feel free to move on.

Edited April 9, 2012 by GreySix

[MMornard]

Lol stop calling yourself "hardcore". There is nothing hardcore about sitting in front of a computer playing a game for hours on end. If anything it would make you softcore.

 

Grow, little Ignore List. Grow and be strong.

[Gungan]

Citation of facts, please.

 

Lets see. Bad word of mouth for one thing.

 

Here's what bad word of mouth does:

 

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.274668-Dragon-Age-2-Sales

[amnie]

btw, on topic: it's always how you define hardcore.

 

there are people who play supermario 'hardcore'.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Yvin
removed quote and reply