Why do people say Sorcs/Sages are overpowered?

[McConnaha]

Because sages can spam one healing spell on Voidstar and get 900k heals? Show me any combat medic or sawbones that has had a 900k game.

 

this guy is bad if he thinks this

[Krumple]

Because at level 28 I just don't see it.

 

Until you actually face a bm geared sage in pvp, you don't know what you are talking about.

 

The experience I have is the same when ever I face a 50 sage in pvp.

 

They use the pebbles to snare, but it doesn't just snare, it prevents channeling. As an operative, there is nothing you can do and they can hit you at great range. I can't even fire my riffle at the ranges they can use the pebbles. Once their pebbles run out they use their boulders to finish you off. If you mange to survive the boulders they go right back into using the pebbles because the cool downs for both are extremely short. The only way I ever survive facing a sage is if someone else pulls them off me. There is NO defense other than that and it shouldn't be that way.

 

There is no closer for an operative. You can't combat stealth out either because the snare on the pebbles sticks so you are stuck walking away and they just guess where you are and pop you out of stealth and then finish you off.

 

If the operative had a closer it might increase survival against them but it doesn't. If you are dps speced operative, you are toast against sages. The healing speced operative does have a chance but only because it can drop hots to prevent a total massacure.

 

I know other classes have similar experiences facing sages because I have *****ed about it enough to hear them say it is no different for them.

[Daex]

Because sages can spam one healing spell on Voidstar and get 900k heals? Show me any combat medic or sawbones that has had a 900k game.

 

Trouble is, out of that 900k, it's very likely that at least 400k is for self-healing, while commandos/mercs don't need to heal themselves half as much.

[Diewoe]

A lot of people cry about sorc/sages being OP because they just see the big numbers at the end. They don't understand that they are throwing out AOE damage hitting people for little amounts but hitting A LOT OF PEOPLE. Who cares if a Sage did 450k damage when the highest hit they did on a single target was 1,500 over 6 seconds, But you add 1,500 x 8 you get 12,000. Now did that -1,500 really hurt you? no not at all but again they just see the total.

 

Now the hybrid spec ( DPS/ Tank ) builds are a little OP. Not the pure healing spec. A Healer all alone is a dead healer. Sure it might take someone that doesn't know how to interrupt forever to kill one or die trying but that's because they are not using their class and skills correctly. I Have a Seer and if someone uses interrupts correctly my best chance is to escape and look for help.

 

Seeing hybrids tank people and throw out some of the highest DPS is a little off. That needs tweaking. To many times i have seen a DPS/Tank spec caster burn through a pure DPS class and walk away with 70% of their health and more of the same against pure tank class.

 

Oh and yes i'm talking 50's

[LenrocNewDawn]

People that know what they are talking about state that there is a hybrid spec sorcerer/sage that is OP. It's hard to see at level 28 since you don't have enough points invested in the skill trees. I think that 1.2 will resolve that issue.

[Cempa]

As a Valor 75 Sorcerer I play Hybrid and it is obvious to me that TOR is a gear based game. When I had 14k HP - 15k HP I had about the same amount of gear as most players, I needed to be on my toes, I could not take silly risks by allowing any one near me. Now at full BM gear and fully optimized with the right Enhancements I have 17xxx HP and tank players who are 14k to 15k HP which represents a large percentage of WZ players in PuG play.

 

The class itself has issue due to being severely unbalanced tree wise. With about half your points -or slightly less than half- invested into Lightning/Kinetics the class can completely forget about resource management, its a non issue! I don't know of any class in TOR that has that luxury. Keep the 50% less Force cost buff up by doing DPS and you are good to go. Moreover; with that investment into Lightning/Kinetics the player gets some amazing control/CC talents. AE 5 sec root off Resolve every 20 sec and a knock back. The 8 sec hard CC has its CD lowered to 45 sec. When bubble ends a AE 3 sec bind/paralyze. Force Speed CD lowered to 20 sec, Jolt -ranged interrupt- lock out time increased to 6 sec.

 

Compare that to the other tree, the shared one, and you realize it does not have endless Force, it does not have all the CC Lightning has, and more importantly you can get all the goodies from it WHILE having all the Lightning/Kinetic PvP goodies!

 

Hybrid scarifies some DPS for amazing PvP utility and endless Force which people find frustrating to play against due to the design of WZ maps:

 

The Pit:

 

Multi level map that will drive any one mad if you try and pin down a skilled hybrid Sorcerer alone. I knock back any one near me and not touch them so they are rooted for 5 sec. I can travel 30m in 2 sec every 20 sec! If you try to kill me it must be frustrating because I do not fight any one gunning for me...I run...because I have discovered my best defense is making the other guy not want to kill me.

 

I kid you not people have given up on me, they come at me solo, 2 players, 3 players and I run away...It reached a point now I literally stand withing 15m of the other team and they let me free cast! Its just not worth it unless you are a War Hero and have some one with pull!

 

Civil War / Void Star:

 

I need to pillar-hump or I am dead in seconds. Unlike The Pit I can not live on platforms and knock down half an ops every 20sec, if I ever get caught more than 15m - 20m away from a pillar its bye bye against any half decent team!

[Hialot]

i think the only issue is the bubble cd should be 2-3 min instead of 20-30 sec.should also be a dmg reduction while in bubble. Sorc/sages IMHO would put me to sleep trying to grind tho.

[Dietra]

i think the only issue is the bubble cd should be 2-3 min instead of 20-30 sec.should also be a dmg reduction while in bubble. Sorc/sages IMHO would put me to sleep trying to grind tho.

 

Lol 2-3 min is a bit much, but I could live with it if it was more than 20-30 sec

[Dietra]

Trouble is, out of that 900k, it's very likely that at least 400k is for self-healing, while commandos/mercs don't need to heal themselves half as much.

 

Lol I have never seen a score of 900k in a warzone. At the most 600k most of the time lol. So that kind of score is rare and yes most likely a lot of self heal. And I will just say this again... if people would learn to focus the healers in a warzone... instead of just crying about them being OP....

 

And I also wonder why people hate these heals so much? They are on the receiving end of these heals ..... I don't get that :-)

[vimm]

I can't really say I have any issues with sorcs/sages, other than playing in the 50 bracket as a fresh 50 with little to no gear. In that case, they are quite problematic, lol.

[Telurian]

I have a 50 SI Sorcerer, and I often feel overpowered. I can pretty much escape any situation, and I have 3 heals I can cast while moving. I also have an AOE KB snare, a 3 second stun, a casting interupt (8 sec CD), a speed boost, a 50% slow instacast (8 sec CD)a long duration CC (whirlwind), and a 3 sec AOE stun (backlash). I pretty much dominate every WZ I join, unless the other team has 2 very good melee dps classes that seek me out, constantly.

 

And that 2.5 sec Dark Infusion (large) is actually a 1.2 sec large heal that I can cast twice in a row (after resurgence). Of course, they are nerfing that in 1.2, which should help reduce survivability a little bit. However, an almost guaranteed crit Dark Heal followed by Innervate should still work well.

 

Yeah right you have a sorceror but you obviously don`t know the skills. Noone really playing a sorc would have made the mistakes you did... I count 5 errors in your list.

[Bastus]

alot of classes are jacked, Bioware really did a crappy job at having roles and drawbacks for the claases. I played a sage and it is BORING easy, you can sprint, bubble, heal, dps a ******** using 1 ability and throwing rocks.

 

It's too easy to get 1st place as sage, I don't even play mine anymore, besides PvP for a sage is bubble, 2-1-1-1-2

 

1 being project and 2 being that stupid move that throws R2-D2...

My 9 year old nephew plays a sage and gets 3-4th place every match.

 

 

on a side note the R2D2 is far more advanced then the droids we have now, why am I throwing him if he hasn't even been invented? 0_0

 

That's my exact issue as well. I quit my Mercenary because it was TOO easy, I felt so lazy just murdering anyone that got in my face. I didn't feel that class deserved heavy armor either, just my opinion.

 

I thought making a sorc would require a little more skill (and it does, believe me), but it's almost easier to kill people. I would see Jugs and PT's working their asses off getting the ball and scoring, and yet I'd get all the MVP votes because I ate people alive, and occasionally healed some dude.

 

You put it very well, Bioware did a crappy job at class drawbacks. Short range, non-stealthing classes all got the finger.

[Ruuprect]

I have a 50 SI Sorcerer, and I often feel overpowered. I can pretty much escape any situation, and I have 3 heals I can cast while moving. I also have an AOE KB snare, a 3 second stun, a casting interupt (8 sec CD), a speed boost, a 50% slow instacast (8 sec CD)a long duration CC (whirlwind), and a 3 sec AOE stun (backlash). I pretty much dominate every WZ I join, unless the other team has 2 very good melee dps classes that seek me out, constantly.

 

And that 2.5 sec Dark Infusion (large) is actually a 1.2 sec large heal that I can cast twice in a row (after resurgence). Of course, they are nerfing that in 1.2, which should help reduce survivability a little bit. However, an almost guaranteed crit Dark Heal followed by Innervate should still work well.

 

Lol, this is only the case if you use the OP 31/31/31 spec.

[phatmhat]

i hate the bubble. its too op. im a tank and any class with a bubble lasts longer than i do. why? because when i get hit and my shield procs, i still get hurt. my shield only mitigates. and it only does so once.

 

the bubble gets repeatedly cast and when its on all i get is "absorb absorb absorb absorb." i may as well and honestly actually DO stop attacking a person with a bubble because its pointless. you just dont do much damage at all.

 

that bubble should only mitigate as much as a tanks bubble. or it should only absorb once then get used up. or the timer on it should be increased at least.

 

making a player practically invulnerable that easily is no bueno.

[aboynamedsue]

This right here, is the answer to your question.

 

The vast majority of players are bad, and they think that topping the damage meter in a meaningless PUG warzone actually means something.

 

When I run with my premade, any opposing team that has more than 3-4 sorcs is an automatic win for us.

 

But, when we see 3-4 marauders and assassins, combined with some mercenary healers, we know we're in for a tough fight.

 

Bottom line is, if you measure the strength of a class by how well it performs in a PUG, then yes, sorcs are massively OP.

 

But for people who play in fully geared premades and know what they're doing, sorc is considered one of the weakest classes in this game currently, and will be even worse after 1.2 hits.

 

Interesting. I'd like to hear some of your strategy. My guild has the exact opposite results. Any enemy group with 3 or less sorcs/assassins in almost a guaranteed win but 4 or more sorcs/assassins is a loss everytime. We usually roll with a shadow, guardian, commando and either vanguard or sage.

[Astarica]

The only part overpowered about a Sorc is that if you've a pillar to hide behind, you can usually fight a Marauder or a Tankasin to a draw which puts you as the most powerful class in the game. By draw I mean that you can run away long enough that your pursuer may need several minutes to actually kill you, not that you actually have a chance of defeating either of those two guys, but in group PvP if you can make their most powerful guy chase you around pillars then you're definitely ahead elsewhere.

 

On my newbie level 50 Sorc I spend most of Alderran running between ramps and around pillars and can reliably shake off pretty much anyone no matter who they are. Of course if the enemy is smart they should just stop trying to chase a Sorc running away the whole time.

[phatmhat]

ok first off i have a 50 sage and a 50 vangaurd and am working on a powertech bh. at level 24 now.

 

say what you say but i can show you video after video of me shooting someone bubbled and getting "absorb absorb absorb" 3 4 sometimes 5 times in a row.

 

im not doing hardly any damage.

 

and that sucks. i dont care what numbers you throw at me or names you call me. this is a fact. this actually happens.

 

about interrupts.

 

i have one 8 second one. maybe its 6. i have the stun one. thats like every min. maybe 30 sec. and i have an ae stun coming. i think at like 40. can't remember. and i have my grapple. thats usable every min.

 

so i get up to the sage - if i can cuz he's rocking me the whole way. then i interrupt his heal. good. guess what. hes got more. so i use my stun for his next heal. great. then by the time he heals again, my interrupt is back up. i use that. ive now interrupted him 3 times. awesome!

 

IF and i mean IF my team is actually assisting me. hopefully about 1 or 2 of them, we can take that sage down fast. but this isnt always the case, frustratingly.

 

often it is just me slamming away on that sage. yes im taking him out of the game, sorta. but after that 3rd interrupt im behind him on his heals. he can heal more than i can interrupt.

 

which brings us back to his damn bubble. if he keeps putting that up too, im really not doing much to him. he soon realizes this and just keeps plugging away healing and bubbling himself and others. its not too hard for him. i know because ive played a sage remember.

 

meanwhile he's a healer and others know it so they're all ganging on me and i die long before i do much to him.

 

on civil war or voidstar i can keep a healer busy. take him out of the game. IF i get heals or IF their team isnt so bright and not getting on me while im on their healer.

 

on huttball i can see someone and attack them and i get absorb absorb absorb absorb. so i look for the sage with the damn bubble.

 

as i approach him (or grap him if i can) he rocks me. takes forever to get to him. then hes got a bubble up. then the same scenario i described above goes on.

 

there is that enough description to have you see i know what im talking about and to stop being buttheads?

 

maybe you can kill him faster because youre more dps. maybe the bubble goes down faster because of that or because you have a buddy or a coordinated team. great. works for me under same conditions. but ive described those arent always the norm.

 

admit it guys. you LOVE the bubble when its on you, and you LOVE being a sage for EXACTLY the reasons ive described.

[Astarica]

The only time I've problem killing a Sorc is if they're healing speced, guarded, and casting Resurgence/Innervate on themselves repeatedly. I think they still benefit from the bug where you get 2 procs per Resurgence? But even then you're talking about a 1on2 here and the Sorc sure isn't healing anyone else. The moment the Sorc starts casting heal on someone other than himself, he's likely to die even while guarded because if you cast Innervate on someone else, that pretty much you can't heal yourself.

 

As a side note, Innervate is very strong because most good players wait until the cast bar is almost done to interrupt to reduce the amount of heals you get, but Innervate you want to interrrupt immediately (it's channeled). Since humans aren't computers what usually happens is they'll let the Innervate slip through (because by the you notice it's Innervate it's usually too late) but make sure you get nothing on all your other heals while spending the maximum time possible casting it. Thus, using Innervate on anyone besides yourself usually leads to a quick death, except that's probably your best heal against a good player.

[Altruismo]

sorcerers are prolly the most squishy class, my healer can beat down a sorcerer 1on1

 

but in saying this U goto get close enuff to one as a scoundrel

 

Thexremstar Scoundrel Sawbones

Infinite empire

 

Huh?

No way - Snipers are by far the squishiest.

Nothing goes down faster; low endurance itemisation, medium armour, no heals and unreliable defensive CD's, most of which require the sniper to sit still and get beat on.

Squish squish!

 

They will probably be a little sturdier after 1.2 when they can Entrench, Ballistic Shield, and Cover pulse while rooted, but still... Squish.

[Morticoccus]

Huh?

No way - Snipers are by far the squishiest.

Nothing goes down faster; low endurance itemisation, medium armour, no heals and unreliable defensive CD's, most of which require the sniper to sit still and get beat on.

Squish squish!

 

They will probably be a little sturdier after 1.2 when they can Entrench, Ballistic Shield, and Cover pulse while rooted, but still... Squish.

 

Difference is, snipers are immune to gap closers while in cover and have two very nice knockbacks. Sorcerers are MUCH easier to kill (excluding healing specs of course, which are just annoying)

[Elkantar]

Premade vs Premade now is =

No Sorcs/Sages, even no Sage Heal/Sorc Heals in a couple of month/weeks.

 

The Changes stand for themselves, every noob who know how to interrupt could make a healer useless or force him to selfheal, a team with focus fire and interrupts ***** every Sorc/Sage Healer even when he got Guard.

 

The Only Problem out there where Commando/Bounty Hunter Healers cause the Bubble make them Immune to Interrupt, and they have high Heal per Second Heals. They got a nerf too but well they are not nearly useless.

 

Sorcs well, dunno lets see if Sorc Heals can adapt or not, when not have fun searching healers for your Hardmode Instances, or Guild for 8/16 Man Nightmare Content, when you can expect Sages/Sorc Heals useless on 3 Encounters (btw. the only real strong encounters in the whole game). Beside the new Content.

 

So why Sorcs OP?

They are easy to play, but hard to master.

 

What makes them seem to op?

Well you have the same perfomance from lvl 10-50 in the Warzones, and when you hit lvl 50 Warzones without gear, you will be dead, dead, dead. So why people Complained?

I played once with some guys they complained about the gear, the enemy class (btw. even vanguard vs powertech in january) so they complained about everything what beatens them. The Complains of them where more help crys what they need to do to beat the opponent and win the fight, but most of them went enrage when you told them what they could have done or do.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Elkantar

[Altruismo]

Difference is, snipers are immune to gap closers while in cover and have two very nice knockbacks. Sorcerers are MUCH easier to kill (excluding healing specs of course, which are just annoying)

 

See my above about root.

Catch a sniper who's moving with a gap closer (with a root) or anything else that roots and he doesn't have those two knockbacks until either the root is gone, or he blows a CC breaker and then enters cover and then uses the knockback before you stun him.

Or you can just stun him while he's in cover and then gap close, entrench is down more often than it's up.

And if you're ranged DPS, you don't need to close the gap or worry about the knockbacks.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Altruismo

[Morticoccus]

Premade vs Premade now is =

No Sorcs/Sages, even no Sage Heal/Sorc Heals in a couple of month/weeks.

 

The Changes stand for themselves, every noob who know how to interrupt could make a healer useless or force him to selfheal, a team with focus fire and interrupts ***** every Sorc/Sage Healer even when he got Guard.

 

The Only Problem out there where Commando/Bounty Hunter Healers cause the Bubble make them Immune to Interrupt, and they have high Heal per Second Heals. They got a nerf too but well they are not nearly useless.

 

Sorcs well, dunno lets see if Sorc Heals can adapt or not, when not have fun searching healers for your Hardmode Instances, or Guild for 8/16 Man Nightmare Content, when you can expect Sages/Sorc Heals useless on 3 Encounters (btw. the only real strong encounters in the whole game). Beside the new Content.

 

So why Sorcs OP?

They are easy to play, but hard to master.

 

What makes them seem to op?

Well you have the same perfomance from lvl 10-50 in the Warzones, and when you hit lvl 50 Warzones without gear, you will be dead, dead, dead. So why people Complained?

I played once with some guys they complained about the gear, the enemy class (btw. even vanguard vs powertech in january) so they complained about everything what beatens them. The Complains of them where more help crys what they need to do to beat the opponent and win the fight, but most of them went enrage when you told them what they could have done or do.

 

I have previously stated my opinion about sorcerers, however, you have a very valid point.

However, sorcerers are still a very squishy advanced class and their defenses are for the most part easily circumvented by anyone who knows how to play a watchman. Those defenses that are not, are CDs of varying length, and unless executed with skill they do not help much. (Such as the bubble blind, very easy to accidentally remove by anyone on the enemy team.)

[SuperSair]

It was a imaginary imbalance created by the surplus of Sorcs and the very real imbalance of Expertise gear.

[Morticoccus]

See my above about root.

Catch a sniper who's moving with a gap closer (with a root) or anything else that roots and he doesn't have those two knockbacks until either the root is gone, or he blows a CC breaker and then enters cover and then uses the knockback before you stun him.

Or you can just stun him while he's in cover and then gap close, entrench is down more often than it's up.

And if you're ranged DPS, you don't need to close the gap or worry about the knockbacks.

 

From a sentinel perspective, I have one extremely short root and one channeled stun, I prefer to eat a knockback, pop camo and use that as my gap closer instead. They never see what hit them. =3