Kthx Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Lets take the sagacious advice of some of the BW defenders: There is no problem with server populations I stopped reading right there. This is what I am saying: "Just because you perceive that there is problem on your server, it doesn't mean there is a problem on most servers or that the game is dying." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kthx Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) The fact that you attack my points with responses that ignore facts or logic is fine with me. If it is fine with you, then one has to wonder why you continue? have shown facts: On servers with posted population levels of Standard the number of players at prime time is in the range of 3-15. this is not "anecdotal evidence". Yes it is anecdotal evidence. You are trying to make a conclusion about the player population as a whole, based on evidence that is neither a random sample nor representative. Let me give you an analogy: "My uncle smoked all his life and lived until he was 100. Therefore, smoking is not dangerous to your health." Do you see the problem with this? Now to you that doesnt mean there is a "population problem". I have never said anything of the sort. What I have said is that you have provided zero evidence for your statement "there is a population problem in the vast majority of servers." If you would stick to what I have actually said, instead of making things up, we would have a much more constructive debate. The fact that you use the subjective term "population problem" to equate with a complete inability to even do a solo mission, or the inablity to do a multiplayer mission on every single planet at the same time, means only that you dont have the ability to think logically. The term was yours, that is why I put it in quotation marks. Your accusations of illogical thinking might be a bit misplaced here. When they finally get around to the mergers in six months they will have lost thousands of subscribers and will be F2P. If you are right, and they lose, let's say, 10,000 subscribers because of lack of transfers, this would be a drop of 0.5% of subscribers. As for your prediction that the game will be free to play in six months, I am willing to make a significant bet with you that this will not be the case. Whomever at BW is behind the delays and is ignoring the obvious should be fired. At my company, this level of incompetence would not be tolerated. At my company we know that it is better to take the time to roll out something that works properly than to rush to delivery. We also don't jump to conclusions without having the facts. I suspect you have never been in the position to terminate an employee for cause. It is not something you do because of a delay and it is not a decision taken lightly. Edited April 18, 2012 by Kthx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesty_Jake Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) I stopped reading right there. This is what I am saying: "Just because you perceive that there is problem on your server, it doesn't mean there is a problem on most servers or that the game is dying." You roll Pub or Sith? Because I roll PUB and our server is standard on peak... however we only have 30 to 40 in fleet. Sith will have 150... so I don't think you're taking into account the PUB experience on a lot of standard servers is awful compared to Sith. The server may be standard but PUBs aren't getting a standard experience. That's the main problem IMO when it comes to the US / Europe anyway, we're out numbered 3 to 1. Bioware could do some strategic Mergers to rectify this and stop people from Re-rolling to Fatman constantly. Edited April 18, 2012 by Chesty_Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klax Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) As I posted in a previous thread that was closed for ... whatever reason, the game is waning because after you hit 50 and the story line ends, SWTOR simply becomes a grind fest for gear. The game encompasses 4 square miles of each planet, and there is no interaction with the environment. Turns out that SWTOR is just another WOW clone in KOTOR wrappings. Unfortunately, BW created the beginning and WOW had a long lead. The game has been fun, but is at it's end now. Edited April 18, 2012 by Klax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkenpig Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 If it is fine with you, then one has to wonder why you continue? Yes it is anecdotal evidence. You are trying to make a conclusion about the player population as a whole, based on evidence that is neither a random sample nor representative. Let me give you an analogy: "My uncle smoked all his life and lived until he was 100. Therefore, smoking is not dangerous to your health." Do you see the problem with this? I have never said anything of the sort. What I have said is that you have provided zero evidence for your statement "there is a population problem in the vast majority of servers." If you would stick to what I have actually said, instead of making things up, we would have a much more constructive debate. The term was yours, that is why I put it in quotation marks. Your accusations of illogical thinking might be a bit misplaced here. If you are right, and they lose, let's say, 10,000 subscribers because of lack of transfers, this would be a drop of 0.5% of subscribers. As for your prediction that the game will be free to play in six months, I am willing to make a significant bet with you that this will not be the case. At my company we know that it is better to take the time to roll out something that works properly than to rush to delivery. We also don't jump to conclusions without having the facts. I suspect you have never been in the position to terminate an employee for cause. It is not something you do because of a delay and it is not a decision taken lightly. At my company when we have a problem with customers we take it seriously. BW has a problem. You dont understand what is "anecdotal evidence". Anecdotal is using a single instance as evidence of a trend or statistical probability. My evidence is that the means by which they rate a planets population as "standard" necessarily (and irrefutably) allows servers to be rated as "standard" when there are not enough people on several planets to be able to play multiplayer groups. That is a fact. Now, if I said "populations are low in SWTOR because last night I was on Voss and there were only 3 of us there for a whole hour from 8 pm to 9 pm: that would be anecdotal. See the difference? Understand? Their methodology for categorizing population levels is very lax and the term "standard" means what ever they want it to mean, but it doesnt have the meaning that most people would assume (unless they intend to not have sufficient population levels to allow for multiplayer play on many servers at prime time-not to mention how bad it is off peak) BTW, I have fired people, and will do so again, when we have a screw up who is jeopardizing the organization's success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJWyler Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) snip. fanboi. Oh, pretty much spot on, by the way. Oh yeah - how ironic that the 10,000 comment matches the number of casualties due to this week's plague... The problem we have here is that people are much too impatient for changes that come from the natural progression of an MMOs launch. Ironic it is though, they will be the first ones to complain about issues related to a "rushed job". I too, do not find the majority of the servers here to have a population problem - heck I log on at off hours for the NA servers, when all are light, and still find more than 3-15 players on any given planet on the more popular servers. That's not to say that there aren't servers with a population issue - my main Pub server is one of them, but in cases like that, it's up to the community on the server to help each other out in that case. If you have a poor community on a low pop server, then yeah that sucks. However, this comes with the MMO territory, and as I said, it's the natural progression as the player base in any MMO levels out after the initial rush. Quite frankly, it's better to have more servers at the start to ensure that all who want to play and experience the game can, then to loose all those potential subs because people didn't feel like waiting for que times to play. Patience is a virtue. Character transfers are coming shortly, and server mergers won't be too far in the future (if they are even needed at that point). As I posted in a previous thread that was closed for ... whatever reason, the game is waning because after you hit 50 and the story line ends, SWTOR simply becomes a grind fest for gear. The game encompasses 4 square miles of each planet, and there is no interaction with the environment. Turns out that SWTOR is just another WOW clone in KOTOR wrappings. Unfortunately, BW created the beginning and WOW had a long lead. The game has been fun, but is at it's end now. So no MMO in history continued to add content after the initial launch? Last time I checked, WoW has added quite a bit of content over the years. GW, a game that had no end-game content to speak up for nearly a year is still going strong. Like any good story, there is an ending, and also the anticipation of the next installment. SWTOR's story has a long way to go. BJ Edited April 18, 2012 by BJWyler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesty_Jake Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 When you have 60 people in fleet at peak hours and consider that a lot you have a population problem. Many servers do, pretending it doesn't exist is silly. Granted it's more of a Republic Specific problem based on feedback as for whatever reason most people tend to roll Sith. Someone was throwing around #'s before about there being half the servers of WoW and 10 to 15% of the population... no one sees an issue with that? My guess is it's the engine, I think they flooded servers on purpose and will condense once they optimize performance. Anyone who's fought 16 vs 16 on Ilum knows what i'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kthx Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 You roll Pub or Sith? Because I roll PUB and our server is standard on peak... however we only have 30 to 40 in fleet. I play Republican exclusively. Having said that, according to the dulfy.net population survey, my server has one of the most balanced faction populations (in general, only a handful of servers have a ratio higher than 1.5:1). Usually, Fleet count on my server is 80-120. The day of 1.2 it was 170 and Tatooine has been 100+ all nights this week (didn't get to play last night, though). All under standard load: Have not seen a queue since pre-launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kthx Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Someone was throwing around #'s before about there being half the servers of WoW and 10 to 15% of the population... no one sees an issue with that? I don't see how you can compare server population on WoW with server population on SWTOR. Canada's population of 34 million would probably seem pretty crowded if it was dumped onto the country of Switzerland. If you are going to make comparisons like that, you have to take into account the architecture of the game and size of the game worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unseenmaji Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Says it al right here http://www.starwarsmmolevelingguide.com/swtor-a-300-million-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-5423 Prediction from 2010 being fuflfilled also go look into the drops in EA's stocks over this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisftw Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 i have a a guess this thread will be around for many years to come with changing numbers and thoughts as to when the game will die. even 6 years down the road i think this thread will be kept alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) Says it al right here http://www.starwarsmmolevelingguide.com/swtor-a-300-million-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-5423 Prediction from 2010 being fuflfilled also go look into the drops in EA's stocks over this game. lmao what, jibberish to a T... Also whats 2 million x 15 bucks for just the few that did 1 month let alone 3/6/9/12 etc? ontop of the price of the game? lol indeed... Edited April 18, 2012 by mordredz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesty_Jake Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I don't see how you can compare server population on WoW with server population on SWTOR. Canada's population of 34 million would probably seem pretty crowded if it was dumped onto the country of Switzerland. If you are going to make comparisons like that, you have to take into account the architecture of the game and size of the game worlds. I think you have it backwards, this is more like taking the population of Israel and dumping it in Mexico. If you have half the servers of WoW don't you think you should have more thank 15% of its subscribers??? And you're lucky... most PUBs I've talked to on various forums and here have 30 on fleet during peak. It sucks period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zsavooz Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 whether pop #'s are real or perceived, I still cannot get a group for Heroics past the 3rd or 4th planet, period. That's not a joke, it's real. So whatever they do,, add a LFG or merge servers, do it already or watch the subs continue to decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I think you have it backwards, this is more like taking the population of Israel and dumping it in Mexico. If you have half the servers of WoW don't you think you should have more thank 15% of its subscribers??? And you're lucky... most PUBs I've talked to on various forums and here have 30 on fleet during peak. It sucks period. on my standard pub server, an alt server we have 30-50 on fleet at peak, 20 in the pit/civil/coast/vs not to mention the how many other planets? ya, um, k... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klax Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 fanboi. Oh, pretty much spot on, by the way. Oh yeah - how ironic that the 10,000 comment matches the number of casualties due to this week's plague... The problem we have here is that people are much too impatient for changes that come from the natural progression of an MMOs launch. Ironic it is though, they will be the first ones to complain about issues related to a "rushed job". I too, do not find the majority of the servers here to have a population problem - heck I log on at off hours for the NA servers, when all are light, and still find more than 3-15 players on any given planet on the more popular servers. That's not to say that there aren't servers with a population issue - my main Pub server is one of them, but in cases like that, it's up to the community on the server to help each other out in that case. If you have a poor community on a low pop server, then yeah that sucks. However, this comes with the MMO territory, and as I said, it's the natural progression as the player base in any MMO levels out after the initial rush. Quite frankly, it's better to have more servers at the start to ensure that all who want to play and experience the game can, then to loose all those potential subs because people didn't feel like waiting for que times to play. Patience is a virtue. Character transfers are coming shortly, and server mergers won't be too far in the future (if they are even needed at that point). So no MMO in history continued to add content after the initial launch? Last time I checked, WoW has added quite a bit of content over the years. GW, a game that had no end-game content to speak up for nearly a year is still going strong. Like any good story, there is an ending, and also the anticipation of the next installment. SWTOR's story has a long way to go. BJ Oh... I'm sure that BW will increase the level to XX and add another zone or two... that isn't the issue. SWTOR is a Max/Min game just like WoW, Just like Aion, Just like (insert MMO here)... Unfortunately, it has less of what those others have to keep people busy while they develop the next big thing. SWTOR is a wonderful game. I really enjoyed it. But, I'm at the end and it's painfully obvious that it is the same ole' same ole'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisftw Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 on my standard pub server, an alt server we have 30-50 on fleet at peak, 20 in the pit/civil/coast/vs not to mention the how many other planets? ya, um, k... ok dude that's YOU.. me however i can log in RIGHT NOW onto Canderous Ordo and there will be over 100 people sitting in the fleet. and its 2:33PM EDT don't pass off your experience being what all others experience. either roll another toon on another server or relinquish your ability to post garbage like you just did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisftw Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Oh... I'm sure that BW will increase the level to XX and add another zone or two... that isn't the issue. SWTOR is a Max/Min game just like WoW, Just like Aion, Just like (insert MMO here)... Unfortunately, it has less of what those others have to keep people busy while they develop the next big thing. SWTOR is a wonderful game. I really enjoyed it. But, I'm at the end and it's painfully obvious that it is the same ole' same ole'. Let me guess GW2 will change this right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 whether pop #'s are real or perceived, I still cannot get a group for Heroics past the 3rd or 4th planet, period. That's not a joke, it's real. So whatever they do,, add a LFG or merge servers, do it already or watch the subs continue to decline. cause you know subs are declining atm? last i checked legacy brought back qutie a few, and again im sure there WORKING ON IT, so with that in mind i would say be patient but to players these days thats dam near impossible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unseenmaji Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 lmao what, jibberish to a T... Also whats 2 million x 15 bucks for just the few that did 1 month let alone 3/6/9/12 etc? ontop of the price of the game? lol indeed... IT doesnt have that many subs, were you get that figure. Also there is other costs they have to cover first before can claim profit, if Diablo 3 takes a chunk and GW 2 it will be problem to retain the necessary subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesty_Jake Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 on my standard pub server, an alt server we have 30-50 on fleet at peak, 20 in the pit/civil/coast/vs not to mention the how many other planets? ya, um, k... Confused do you think those are good #s? They are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesty_Jake Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 ok dude that's YOU.. me however i can log in RIGHT NOW onto Canderous Ordo and there will be over 100 people sitting in the fleet. and its 2:33PM EDT don't pass off your experience being what all others experience. either roll another toon on another server or relinquish your ability to post garbage like you just did. I hope you're re-reading the irony in your post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klax Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 BTW, on my server, My guild has 202 members of which 32 were 50s and about 15 high level 40s. I'm sure that many of the 202 are alts. I'm the only one left that logs in daily, and of the rest I've seen only two in the past week. Even so, the other two have said that they are leaving the game as well. None of these players moved on to other guilds or other servers. They simply left the game altogether.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rakuenCallisto Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 on my standard pub server, an alt server we have 30-50 on fleet at peak, 20 in the pit/civil/coast/vs not to mention the how many other planets? ya, um, k... great. you are on the one server that isn't a ghost town most of the time. congrats, you started a character on the 1% servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 great. you are on the one server that isn't a ghost town most of the time. congrats, you started a character on the 1% servers. its a standard/light server rofl the low pop, rofl comprehension much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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