Project the 1.2.1 nerfs

[JediDuckling]

Scoundrel heals are already the hardest to kill, and they'll only be harder in 1.2 plus they'll have an easier time healing everyone else too.

 

i dont know what people are on about healing in this game is weak and needs buffing. i can kill healers better geared than me solo so it must your the people crying that arej ust bad.

it only takes 1 person to kill a healer in swtor it takes a good 5+ players or more in other mmo's to kill a healer.

[LancelotOC]

You must be wrong. No way you can kill a healer according to their infallible metrics. Edited April 9, 2012 by LancelotOC

[xxIncubixx]

i dont know what people are on about healing in this game is weak and needs buffing. i can kill healers better geared than me solo so it must your the people crying that arej ust bad.

it only takes 1 person to kill a healer in swtor it takes a good 5+ players or more in other mmo's to kill a healer.

 

healers that stand there "ihealihealiheal" is also pretty lame. like in other mmos

[Maelfician]

you do realise even after the the nerf they got they are still nearly able to 1 shot heavy BM targets right ?

 

Awesome troll! I almost spit out my coffee lolling when I saw this... oh wait, you're serious. Sure, I get 1 shot out of stealth by operatives all the time on my BM geared sage... but I'm usually at 3k health left anyway from the other folks beating on me when this occurs.

[Affics]

They will nerf scrapper again.

[Semitote]

Smash nerfed by 10% damage & 3 sec increased CD on all force abilities in 1.2 already, why would they further nerf it?

 

Also, Rage has terrible rage generation and they're taking away the talent that allows our enrage to generate more rage... So our rage will be even worse.. Granted the new talent it is being replaced with will give us a third shockwave generator, but it also changes the dynamic on how we use enrage... We can't just pop it on CD when out of rage anymore (I mean, we can.. but it could be wasteful).. We have to plan when to use it.. Which means more Sundering Assaults, Assaults, and Saber Throws. Also, our new defensive cooldown saps our already non-existent rage pool (though we do get a talent to reduce the initial cost of it).. I feel like we're being pigeon-holed into the Immortal tree for Enraged Sunder & Battle Cry..

 

Juggs will be buffed in 1.2.1. They'll probably make a high end Rage talent cause Ravage to generate 1 rage per hit (3 rage if you get the full channel off). At least I think that's what they should do because right now in the first two tiers of the 1.2 Rage tree I see 8 talents worth taking (for PvP) then garbage that affects vicious slash and ravage neither of which do I use. Vicious Slash isn't worth the rage as a Rage Juggernaut, Ravage is meh as I'd rather do a sundering assault and an assault rather than waste 3 seconds on Ravage and not have anything to show for it since it does not generate rage and I'm fairly certain all my rage costing abilities will do more damage since I can use two of them in the time it takes to do one ravage.

[ShadowOfVey]

1.2.1

 

Acid Blade now only applies its bonus to guns.

 

Operatives have been rebalanced and can no longer equip guns.

 

Hidden strike is now unusable on players that are in combat.

 

Hidden strike is now unusable on players that are not in combat.

 

When an operative attempts to use backstab on an enemy player, the enemy player will have a popup window with a yes/no option, where they can choose whether to take the damage or not. Players were unsubbing due to taking damage from backstab and we feel this change is necessary so that people are allowed to enjoy the game in whatever way they prefer.

 

Viewing our metrics shows a large imbalance in the amount of damage marauders are able to inflict vs their ability to stay alive relative to other dps classes. Thus operatives can no longer stealth unless near preset items in the environment that give the appropriate amount of visibility reduction. (This change will be going live in patch 1.2.1, items that provide cover for stealth are estimated to be added before 1.4)

[TDRedmage]

I see assassin nerfs incoming because the QQers don't know what they are talking about and that seems to be the latest flavor of tears.

 

That and they're basically unkillable

[Hatham]

First, I will give BW credit for noticing many issues that needed to be addressed and including them in 1.2

 

Although some of the nerfs may seem too severe, few argue that SOMETHING needed to be done in the areas that they addressed.

 

On the flip side, after reading the initial 1.2 patch notes, I (and many others) felt pretty confident that BUFFS to some classes (not the nerfs) were the most offbase and out-of-touch with high level PvP play.

 

If you have Conqueror level experience and/or PTS experience, feel free to post your thoughts on just the 1.2 classes that you clearly see getting nerfed post release. Nothing makes people quit or re-roll more than nerfs, but it would be better if they did it all at one time versus merry-go-round that have plagued other MMOs.

 

Here is my 2 cents...

 

In terms of PvP, it's fairly obvious that these classes/specs will be getting nerfs post 1.2 if the current changes go live. .

 

1. Rage Juggs (smash way too powerful)

 

2. Carnage Maras (overboard buffs given other class nerfs)

 

3. Assassins (many godly specs and too few weaknesses compared to other classes)

 

4. Op Healers (not 100% sure on this one, but it seems to be the consensus from people with even more experience than me in this area)

 

There have been lots of posts mentioning the specifics why, but the re-rolls I'm seeing from top players since 1.2 was announced speak equally as loud. Is there any class getting re-rolled to more than these since 1.2 was announced??? Given the changes to Op dps and buffs to Op healing, it's pretty obvious that almost all Ops in a rated WZ will switch to healer post 1.2. - regardless if the changes make them "overpowered" as healers.

 

I could be wrong, but the point of this thread is not to argue with anyone else's opinion (since that rarely goes anywhere). Just feel free to go on record yourself projecting what you see happening, and we'll see in 1.2.1 who's right.

 

At a minimum, it may help BW because the PTS seems to be very deficient in feedback from rated WZ testing.

 

 

Is this a troll? If so, bravo sir.

 

1. Rage Juggs are smash monkeys, and it's possible that rage marauders will do that job better come 1.2. They're basically 1 trick ponies. Avoid the smash, collect bacon.

 

2. Carnage? What? I've yet to see one that isn't annihilation which the commonly complained about spec.

 

3. Assassins have 1 good spec and 2 specs stubborn people who don't mind being subpar to prove a point play.

 

4. OP healers? You mean the healing class with no knockbacks or speed increases? The one with the 3 minute escape ability that also makes them unable to perform their main task until the buff wears off? They're being buffed because they suck.

 

I don't know if you're trolling, if you are you got me. If you're trying to make a joke about bioware nerfing things nonsensically it went over my head too.

[-Vexus-]

If we are projecting the 1.2.1 nerfs, my bet is on nerfing:

 

1. tank spec'd sins/shadows

2. damage spec'd troopers/bounty hunters

3. heal spec'd ops/scoundrels

 

If I had to guess, that would be it.

[Antipathize]

That and they're basically unkillable

 

Thanks for proving my point.

[TDRedmage]

Thanks for proving my point.

 

Lemme guess. You play an assassin?

[Antipathize]

Lemme guess. You play an assassin?

 

Nope, game is uninstalled and I have about 2 days on my sub. Main was a sniper, then I rolled a sin. I have to admit, I was overpowered from my 31/31/31 spec that everyone talks about. I soloed nmm and beat Satan in a 1v1 fight.

 

Find the thread that talks about playing the class before critiquing it. It might enlighten you. I'm done trying to correct stupid posts.

[TDRedmage]

Nope, game is uninstalled and I have about 2 days on my sub.

 

I'm done trying to correct stupid posts.

 

Obviously you're not because you uninstalled the game and are still complaining on the forums. What do you care anyway?

 

Nope, game is uninstalled and I have about 2 days on my sub. Main was a sniper, then I rolled a sin. I have to admit, I was overpowered from my 31/31/31 spec that everyone talks about. I soloed nmm and beat Satan in a 1v1 fight

 

Nice one with the "31/31/31 spec" comment. I definitely said that, and in no way is that a strawman argument.

 

Also love they way that I asserted people defending sins are the ones playing them and you replied that you quit your sniper to play a sin. You really showed me didn't you? I was definitely wrong there...

 

But really, if you quit the game why are you still posting? Stop posting.

Edited April 9, 2012 by TDRedmage

[Antipathize]

I have a boring job and it's fun to post. Most of the time I'm just trying to be funny, but it does upset me when people make uninformed statements like "Assassins are unkillable." (or almost unkillable, can't remember) and if you had played a sniper, you would know why I rerolled.

 

The issue is, I can offer valid criticisms about sniper play, based of my experience and not speaking from authority. I can do the same about assassins. I however do not make assumptions about classes I have not played, and state baseless accusations about balance.

 

A good portion of people do exactly this, and coupled with how class nerfs are based on the perceived opness of a class rather than the actual, and almost well-balanced gameplay becomes whack-a-mole with nerfs, and fotm rerolling.

[sensiblepoast]

1. assasins

 

2. gunslingers

[AGx-Spike]

DPS operatives ARE NOT FINE, in pvp or pve in their current iteration. The reason classes are "getting owned by operatives during the stun" is based on the fact that A)they are using biochem stims/relics/adrenals before the hidden strike to get you down or B) they are playing like vultures, picking on the weak, finishing people off who ran away.

 

We are sub par in the damage in pve even under "optimal" settings compared to all the other melee dps classes, and they have closing mechanisms. *point's to 1.2 tests on the smuggler/operative forums of dps compared to Marauders*

 

In pvp, I'm in full bm, valor rank 80, optimal gearing and I even have trouble vs a sorc one on one if they too are in full BM gear because of their defensive cooldowns and force speed.

I'm having to play like a vulture or stabbing with someone attacking my target, or going after the half health people and yes, it's caused people on my server to hate me, but that's what we are forced to do in pvp as it stands now, and even more so in pvp when 1.2 comes out in it's current iteration.

 

I have also never seen over a 5.2k hit as of late, yet Mercenaries and Jugs are hitting that mark without breaking a sweat, and with the buffs to the marauder class in 1.2 Marauders can kill anyone within 6 seconds with bleeds, and ravage.

 

Ask your servers high level pvp operatives/smugglers if you have them, they will agree with me on all points.

 

NO class that can turn invisible needs to hit that damn hard. Period. (and I play one of them). I think the play style you described is exactly what was intended for the class. I hate it too when a Smug gets the jump on me but I know thats how their class is played and its not something they can continuously do (once they get caught out of stealth they have a problem). I'd say, roll a different class or play a spec that doesn't rely on Stealth/backstab so much. I won't pretend to know Smug and its probably fun but it just seems like you picked a class that isn't what you hoped it would be. Not flaming you but I feel the same about a lot of the classes in the game.

[Luno]

-Surgical Probe now costs 10 Energy and has a 6 second cool-down.

-Surgical Precision now has a 25%/50% chance to re-grant a Tactical Advantage when Surgical Probe is used. This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds.

[Scoobings]

1. Rage Juggs (smash way too powerful)

 

2. Carnage Maras (overboard buffs given other class nerfs)

 

3. Assassins (many godly specs and too few weaknesses compared to other classes)

 

4. Op Healers (not 100% sure on this one, but it seems to be the consensus from people with even more experience than me in this area)

 

 

I smell a ranged DPSer...

[hulkweazel]

operatives are fine

 

 

ive been 100% to 0% by less geared operatives without having a moment of control from my sorc (660 expertise, full BM), but i suppose OPS feel this is working as intended

 

 

you have ridiculous control/stuns and burst, you want what? more survivability and mobility? you have a resource free ranged attack, and ranged aoe mezz for when u hit the wrong key and didnt global ur opponent

Stop 1v1ing and l2p warzones correctly.

 

Being a bad player doesn't mean other classes need to be nerfed.

-Surgical Probe now costs 10 Energy and has a 6 second cool-down.

-Surgical Precision now has a 25%/50% chance to re-grant a Tactical Advantage when Surgical Probe is used. This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds.

DPS classes doesn't know how to burst 5k damage or use cc? Another bad case of needing to l2p.

Edited April 9, 2012 by hulkweazel

[VoidJustice]

FYI Guardian Focus Bombers took some serious DPS hits in 1.2.

 

from +48% damage increase on sweep down to 28% and the cooldown on

sweep/smash went from 9 seconds to 12.

 

How they are suddenly OP after a 20% + decrease in damage and a 3 second increase in cooldown is beyond me.

 

My bet is that the OP is confused about all the Mara's that now have Mara sized acess to sweep bomb builds.

 

1 lightsaber 2 lightsabers... who can tell right! It's too hard to count to 2 when your horrible.

 

/shrug

 

and no... Im a Vigilance Jed... it's just all Guardians watch the Focus tree as it is our "highest" damage tree... or was...

Edited April 9, 2012 by VoidJustice

[TDRedmage]

and if you had played a sniper, you would know why I rerolled.

 

How did your sniper stack up against an assassin? On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being desperate need of a buff and 10 being desperate need of a nerf, where would you rank the sniper? The assassin?

[Pretty_Flacko]

I see assassin nerfs incoming because the QQers don't know what they are talking about and that seems to be the latest flavor of tears.

 

assassin? what more can they nerf? the class is so squishy it is hard enough as it is to survive. All pvp gear gives dps, and an assassin speced tank is well, a tank. A DPS speced assassin, lets say deception for example, is beyond squishy. The reason ur getting destroyed by it is either, A) You suck B) they have high burst dps if used right (Which was intended)

C) You just suck. Anybody who knows what they are doing can counter any class. It's simple logic. Yet everyone assumes since they keep getting wrecked by the same person/class, that said class is OP. Many players have issues with looking within and realizing that maybe they need some adjustments in their play style. It's not the class, it's not bioware. It's you not being capable of using your given abilities to your advantage.

[KonstantinT]

granted..

 

but i can fight back vs other classes

 

it is EXTREMELY frustrating to just sit stunned and watch me hp drop drop drop and i cant do anything in return.... getting control of my toon at 30% hp is all too common

 

Almost every class in game has 4 sec stun. Not just operatives/scoundrels. I don't understand the beef with those particular classes.

 

Operatives/scoundrels in dps spec are opportunists. Good ones will strike when you're not full hp to begin with. You don't notice all the times they walk past you stealthed when you're surrounded by allies and are at full hp. What you do notice are the times when you are trying to recover standing by yourself you get taken out in one stun, followed by op/scoundrel restealthing and seeking another target.

 

Of course you get pissed about it, but that's the whole point of the class. 1v1, full hp this class isn't that great at all. This is in reference to equal geared opponents, obviously BM scoundrel/operative will wipe the floor with someone in centurion JUST LIKE ANY OTHER CLASS would.

[Antipathize]

How did your sniper stack up against an assassin? On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being desperate need of a buff and 10 being desperate need of a nerf, where would you rank the sniper? The assassin?

 

I favored the MM spec, and I wouldn't say it needed a buff or nerf, just tweaks to the basic mechanics. Cover glitches out occasionally, there is a slight delay with having to drop into cover and use your knockback, which made it too late in some cases. The main problem I felt, was you could spend 2.5 seconds channeling only to have it deflected/dodged. I don't think they should change the damage type to avoid mitigation, but let it ignore deflects and dodges. Otherwise you could potentially burst tanks down too fast. A dps shouldn't be bursting down a tank IMO.

 

The assassin suffers from darkness being the best spec out of all of them. A small boost to survivability while in the dps trees would balance it out, coupled with a buff to tanking stats for all tanks (mitigation and shielding) that would encourage more pure tanks.

 

I'd say 6/10 for sniper being buffed, and 2/10 for buffing the assassin. Dps gear itself isn't the problem, it's the viability of being a pure tank that is.

 

A good healer should be able to take down an assassin (although it takes a very long time) and I really only win against them in group settings.

 

The real issue is that the people are assuming they are on equal terms when they fight. A fresh 50 will get steamrolled by my classes no matter what. Equally geared and you start seeing where the balance is needed. Right now there are high numbers of assassins, so people see only that they are getting killed by them, not the other variables happening.

 

The popularity of tanks in dps gear is growing partially becaus tanks can sacrifice a little hp to get a little damage, but it ends the fight slightly faster.

 

I.E. Tank does 300dps and has 17k health, dps does 600 dps and has 10k health, now the tank would win in 33.3 seconds, whereas the dps would in 28.3 toss in tank cooldowns and mitigation, and it's likely the tank will win. Now let's say a tank wears dps gear. His dps goes to 450 dps. Now he wins in 22.2 seconds but has 13k hp. The dps goes to winning in 21.6 seconds, but again, cooldowns and mitigation puts the edge on the tank.

 

These are wild numbers but my theory. It just makes the tank seem stronger because he is shaving 10 seconds off the kill time, making him able to put up better numbers.

 

Keep in mind this is my opinion, and without testing in a controlled environment and extensive logs, it should stay opinion.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Antipathize