In organized PvP CC is out of control

[Dee-Jay]

In anticipation of rated warzones, we had our raid-group split up into four organized groups after our raid for some competitive Huttball games just to see how they play.

 

And it basically confirmed my worst fear.

 

If you thought CC was bad in random groups with AoE knockbacks kicking people every ~10 seconds, constant slows etc. you haven't seen anything yet.

 

Once you get into groups of people who know how and when to abuse CC, it gets 10 times worse.

 

It took a whole 9 minutes before even 1 side was able to score.

 

Carriers were constantly pulled into fires and stunned there to die. Knockbacks were spammed every ~6 seconds making it impossible for our melees to contribute much.

 

The whole cluster**** was finally broken by our Shadows sprinting ahead of everyone and passing to a Stealther near the enemy line.

 

It wasn't fun.

 

 

And I would only consider half my raid serious PvPers.

 

Something has to be done about CC in this game. It's just way too abundant and way too much of it is (Pb)AoE. I won't dwell too much on just how superior Shadows are compared to other classes in Huttball. People like to think Guardians are good, but they still require targets...something which is easily averted.

 

If you want Huttball games in rated warzones in any way to resemble something people would consider "fun", something must be done about CC in this game.

[Viliphied]

In anticipation of rated warzones, we had our raid-group split up into four organized groups after our raid for some competitive Huttball games just to see how they play.

 

And it basically confirmed my worst fear.

 

If you thought CC was bad in random groups with AoE knockbacks kicking people every ~10 seconds, constant slows etc. you haven't seen anything yet.

 

Once you get into groups of people who know how and when to abuse CC, it gets 10 times worse.

 

It took a whole 9 minutes before even 1 side was able to score.

 

Carriers were constantly pulled into fires and stunned there to die. Knockbacks were spammed every ~6 seconds making it impossible for our melees to contribute much.

 

The whole cluster**** was finally broken by our Shadows sprinting ahead of everyone and passing to a Stealther near the enemy line.

 

It wasn't fun.

 

 

And I would only consider half my raid serious PvPers.

 

Something has to be done about CC in this game. It's just way too abundant and way too much of it is (Pb)AoE. I won't dwell too much on just how superior Shadows are compared to other classes in Huttball. People like to think Guardians are good, but they still require targets...something which is easily averted.

 

If you want Huttball games in rated warzones in any way to resemble something people would consider "fun", something must be done about CC in this game.

 

What you just described sounds AWESOME. I can't wait

 

A full team, all working together, synergizing their CCs, the other team doing the same, both trying desperately to counter, scratching and clawing for any advantage, it's *********** beautiful.

 

EDIT: Also, it sounds pretty much exactly how premade vs. premade Huttball goes now, so, nothing really new here

Edited April 7, 2012 by Viliphied

[Dee-Jay]

What you just described sounds AWESOME. I can't wait

 

A full team, all working together, synergizing their CCs, the other team doing the same, both trying desperately to counter, scratching and clawing for any advantage, it's *********** beautiful.

 

EDIT: Also, it sounds pretty much exactly how premade vs. premade Huttball goes now, so, nothing really new here

 

It may sound fun, and it probably was for our Shadows (pull --> fire --> lol) but it wasn't for everyone else involved.

 

For the first few minutes you laugh about the situation, after about 5 minutes you get frustrated and finally you resign.

 

 

My point wasn't that CC was synergizing in a great way. It was just way too abundant.

 

There's no synergy involved into pulling someone into a fire pit from half-way across the map 10 seconds after they received a ball.

 

There is no synergy involved in keeping your ~20 Sec. CD AoE knockback on CD, especially on the walkovers.

 

We have a fairly balanced raid-group with a bit of everything. But the Huttball situation would be far worse with teams that stack Shadows/Assassins.

[Cowflab]

In anticipation of rated warzones, we had our raid-group split up into four organized groups after our raid for some competitive Huttball games just to see how they play.

 

And it basically confirmed my worst fear.

 

If you thought CC was bad in random groups with AoE knockbacks kicking people every ~10 seconds, constant slows etc. you haven't seen anything yet.

 

Once you get into groups of people who know how and when to abuse CC, it gets 10 times worse.

 

It took a whole 9 minutes before even 1 side was able to score.

 

Carriers were constantly pulled into fires and stunned there to die. Knockbacks were spammed every ~6 seconds making it impossible for our melees to contribute much.

 

The whole cluster**** was finally broken by our Shadows sprinting ahead of everyone and passing to a Stealther near the enemy line.

 

It wasn't fun.

 

 

And I would only consider half my raid serious PvPers.

 

Something has to be done about CC in this game. It's just way too abundant and way too much of it is (Pb)AoE. I won't dwell too much on just how superior Shadows are compared to other classes in Huttball. People like to think Guardians are good, but they still require targets...something which is easily averted.

 

If you want Huttball games in rated warzones in any way to resemble something people would consider "fun", something must be done about CC in this game.

 

Welcome to coordinated PvP. what you described is nothing new and actually sounds quite fun. Secondly, by your own admittance only 1/2 of the players playing are serious pvpers, meaning that strategies and gameplans were nowhere near as crisp and precise as they could be.

 

Finally, I really wish people would specify what kind of shadow/assassin they're talking about when they cry OP. Darkness/KC's are very strong in huttball due to their mobility. Madness and Deception and their Pub equivalents are considered rather weak for huttball by veteran PvPers.

[Cowflab]

It may sound fun, and it probably was for our Shadows (pull --> fire --> lol) but it wasn't for everyone else involved.

 

For the first few minutes you laugh about the situation, after about 5 minutes you get frustrated and finally you resign.

 

 

My point wasn't that CC was synergizing in a great way. It was just way too abundant.

 

There's no synergy involved into pulling someone into a fire pit from half-way across the map 10 seconds after they received a ball.

 

There is no synergy involved in keeping your ~20 Sec. CD AoE knockback on CD, especially on the walkovers.

 

We have a fairly balanced raid-group with a bit of everything. But the Huttball situation would be far worse with teams that stack Shadows/Assassins.

 

Oh look, another nerf shadow/assassin thread under the guise of a CC in huttball thread. This is a new and interesting topic...

[dronepilot]

In anticipation of rated warzones, we had our raid-group split up into four organized groups after our raid for some competitive Huttball games just to see how they play.

 

And it basically confirmed my worst fear.

 

If you thought CC was bad in random groups with AoE knockbacks kicking people every ~10 seconds, constant slows etc. you haven't seen anything yet.

 

Once you get into groups of people who know how and when to abuse CC, it gets 10 times worse.

 

It took a whole 9 minutes before even 1 side was able to score.

 

Carriers were constantly pulled into fires and stunned there to die. Knockbacks were spammed every ~6 seconds making it impossible for our melees to contribute much.

 

The whole cluster**** was finally broken by our Shadows sprinting ahead of everyone and passing to a Stealther near the enemy line.

 

It wasn't fun.

 

 

And I would only consider half my raid serious PvPers.

 

Something has to be done about CC in this game. It's just way too abundant and way too much of it is (Pb)AoE. I won't dwell too much on just how superior Shadows are compared to other classes in Huttball. People like to think Guardians are good, but they still require targets...something which is easily averted.

 

If you want Huttball games in rated warzones in any way to resemble something people would consider "fun", something must be done about CC in this game.

 

Your joking right ?! -since when has Shadows been superior at Huttball ?! - Sages and Sorcerers, its better for not Shadows.

[Cowflab]

Your joking right ?! -since when has Shadows been superior at Huttball ?! - Sages and Sorcerers, its better for not Shadows.

 

Tankassins are one of the best, if not the best ball carriers in huttball. I assume that's what he's refering to, but I could be confused. All these "nerf shadow/assassin" threads seem to run together after awhile.

[gabrielcab]

In anticipation of rated warzones, we had our raid-group split up into four organized groups after our raid for some competitive Huttball games just to see how they play.

 

And it basically confirmed my worst fear.

 

If you thought CC was bad in random groups with AoE knockbacks kicking people every ~10 seconds, constant slows etc. you haven't seen anything yet.

 

Once you get into groups of people who know how and when to abuse CC, it gets 10 times worse.

 

It took a whole 9 minutes before even 1 side was able to score.

 

Carriers were constantly pulled into fires and stunned there to die. Knockbacks were spammed every ~6 seconds making it impossible for our melees to contribute much.

 

The whole cluster**** was finally broken by our Shadows sprinting ahead of everyone and passing to a Stealther near the enemy line.

 

It wasn't fun.

 

 

And I would only consider half my raid serious PvPers.

 

Something has to be done about CC in this game. It's just way too abundant and way too much of it is (Pb)AoE. I won't dwell too much on just how superior Shadows are compared to other classes in Huttball. People like to think Guardians are good, but they still require targets...something which is easily averted.

 

If you want Huttball games in rated warzones in any way to resemble something people would consider "fun", something must be done about CC in this game.

 

OMG! thats sound like an awesome match, i cannot wait to play with teams like that.

[FourTwent]

In anticipation of rated warzones, we had our raid-group split up into four organized groups after our raid for some competitive Huttball games just to see how they play.

 

If you thought CC was bad in random groups with AoE knockbacks kicking people every ~10 seconds, constant slows etc. you haven't seen anything yet.

 

It wasn't fun.

 

So it's only fun to play your pre-made against casuals/bads?

Edited April 7, 2012 by FourTwent

[MagicmanNC]

I'm with the OP here, that sounds pretty horrid.

[Nukor]

I'm with the OP here, that sounds pretty horrid.

 

I'm with the rest of the posters. Having played several games like the one that the OP described, I absolutely prefer the close games that are nerve-wracking and push your limits of reacting effectively under pressure. A 6-0 stomp is like ordering a steak and being served bologna sandwhich.

 

The moment that those coordinated passes happened... it's moments like those that make PVP so deliciously entertaining. Like that moment in a chess match where moves planned in advance win the game for you, it's that mental gratification that I feel most players love in PVP.

 

I don't intend this to sound rude, but it sounds to me like you enjoy predictable fights as opposed to dynamic fights. If this is true, I highly recommend that you stick to raiding because it will offer you that kind of gameplay... PVP will not offer you predictable fights in any game.

[Pathlight-]

I'm with the rest of the posters. Having played several games like the one that the OP described, I absolutely prefer the close games that are nerve-wracking and push your limits of reacting effectively under pressure. A 6-0 stomp is like ordering a steak and being served bologna sandwhich.

 

The moment that those coordinated passes happened... it's moments like those that make PVP so deliciously entertaining. Like that moment in a chess match where moves planned in advance win the game for you, it's that mental gratification that I feel most players love in PVP.

 

I don't intend this to sound rude, but it sounds to me like you enjoy predictable fights as opposed to dynamic fights. If this is true, I highly recommend that you stick to raiding because it will offer you that kind of gameplay... PVP will not offer you predictable fights in any game.

 

 

Yep. Seems like the OP doesn't like playing against a good team.

[Zunayson]

Organized focus fire is out of control!

 

Organized heal/tank/dps combo is out of control!

 

Organized communication is out of control!

 

Organized premades are out of control!

 

Organized organization is out of control!

[Nukor]

Yep. Seems like the OP doesn't like playing against a good team.

 

I don't agree with that, I think he might just prefer a different gaming experience than what I feel most players who enjoy PVP gameplay enjoy.

 

I think he has an idea of what kind of fight he wants to see against other players, but that he wants it to be more predictable than what this game offers.

 

To the OP: I hope you reconsider this, that game you described sounds great to me, it's what I play MMOs for. Maybe your team mates were getting angry in vent or something... if that's the case you should try PVPing with a team of players that are more constructive and generally less irritable.

[Zunayson]

So basically the op said that out of all the people whining about the abundance of CC in pugs, now he knows what its like for premades to skillfully play the game.

 

Cool.

[Bnol]

This is what I have been waiting for. Rarely do you have that highly contested back-and-forth match where you must use skill, creativity, and sometimes a bit of luck to pull out the victory.

 

A pull (400 resolve) and a 4-second stun (800 resolve) will white-bar players meaning you just need a dispel, friendly pull, or a CC-break up to be able to counter it. Sure they can be rooted, but roots do not prevent you from passing the ball.

 

If your major problem is people being pulled to their death in the fire, then you should focus your CC and knockbacks on pullers, your sorcs should save their pull to get someone out of fire, your team should pass rapidly and should pass in the air while being pulled (make sure to have the pass bound to an easily accessible key!) , your healers should learn to dispel the CC (using focus target for the ball carrier, with focus modifiers can help), try to get the ball to studier carriers with better defensive CDs.

 

So many possibilities, so many strategies and counters. I hope there are a lot of close full-premade games out there. 6-0 steamrolls get boring pretty fast.

[LoKiei]

Today I was at the enemy goal line, an enemy tank had recently killed our ball carrier. He and his team thought he was safe, as he walked in the other direction on the side of the pit I grappled him into fire and stunned.

 

I then scored.

 

It was enjoyable and they were clearly shocked.

 

Anyway I agree that shadow/sin needs a nerf but the rest of the gameplay is pretty enjoyable.

Edited April 7, 2012 by LoKiei

[EazyWin]

So basically the op said that out of all the people whining about the abundance of CC in pugs, now he knows what its like for premades to skillfully play the game.

 

Cool.

 

 

Does it bother anyone else that spamming CC is considered skillfully played? I am most certainly not among best PvP players, but when it takes 2 long stuns to fill the resolve bar (and you stay stunned until the 2nd one wears off) it gets really frustrating to die (stunned), spawn (while your resolve wears off), and die again (stunned) before your CC breaker is off of CD. Oh, and you got stunned again after you broke that one.

 

I understand that the resolve system is working as designed. I personally don't agree with the design. 2 full stuns (which some individuals have, based on class) give a player a huge health advantage if they're not a complete goober and have some kind of rotation worked out. This is not tactical, it is ridiculous.

 

My opinion (and it is JUST that, an opinion) would be to make the 6 second stun fill your resolve bar. CC can once again be used tactically, one 6 second stun, one 3 second stun. If you can get someone to waste their breaker on the 3 second (or out of combat) stun, then you get an advantage. Not an enormous advantage, but an advantage that you can still lose depending on how you play.

[DerangedOne]

Imo that sounds frickin great ill sup for 1year+ if something like this popped every 1 or so min

[Anthiel]

i like it its fun when two teams go all out and it either ends 1-0 or 0-0 with a hold for the win i think the cc is about perfect in this game all i want is a 2 sec immunity on my stunbreak so its usefull outside of full resolve. all over the world people play soccer and the game ends with very little points gained i think of it much the same with this there will be some things that have to be ironed out when rated comes round but i dont think the amount of cc in total will be a point of contention. wow was way worse 3 people could cc you for the rest of time in the universe if your teams dr's didnt clash sap,sap,sap,stun,stun polyX3,fearX3,thief vanish,sap.......

[Bnol]

My opinion (and it is JUST that, an opinion) would be to make the 6 second stun fill your resolve bar. CC can once again be used tactically, one 6 second stun, one 3 second stun. If you can get someone to waste their breaker on the 3 second (or out of combat) stun, then you get an advantage. Not an enormous advantage, but an advantage that you can still lose depending on how you play.

 

A 6 second stun (loss of control that does not break on damage) would fill your resolve bar since stuns give 200 resolve per second, so a 6 second stun would give 1200 resolve (or actually 1800 resolve because of the additional 50% resolve for going over 1000). There are no 6 second stuns in the game.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Bnol

[Downhill]

Sounds like a bunch of dispell fails.

[ShadowOfVey]

I enjoy the low scoring huttball games, am fine with this.

 

Also, once good players get used to playing other good players on a more consistent basis (after cross server pvp is in so there's plenty of others in a rating group to play with from elsewhere) I think people will step it up a bit more too with some new scoring tactics, counters to defensive counters and so on.

 

Lets face it, at the moment it is quite rare to have two stacked teams of good players face off against each other. Even if your premade faces off against another premade, it's still just 4 people a team and there's pugs floating around in there somewhere.

[Vaipyr]

Organized focus fire is out of control!

 

Organized heal/tank/dps combo is out of control!

 

Organized communication is out of control!

 

Organized premades are out of control!

 

Organized organization is out of control!

 

Agreed. But you forgot

Tanks/healers/maras/shadows/sorcs/vanguards/mandos/ops/ are out of control! NURF!

 

Then it will pretty much sum up the entirety of the PvP forums and we can close them down for the betterment of mankind.

[Arkerus]

Sounds like a bunch of dispell fails.

 

 

Relying on purely dispel to stop CC is bad design.