Robpwnz Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 In a concealment vs concealment fight, the winner is basically whoever gets the opener off? Just use the cheap double HS tactic and you own them ya? If you get caught and this happens to you what are the chances of you getting away? Shield probe rq and then CS to escape? Should you even bother trying to fight back at this point lawlz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahebish Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 (edited) In a concealment vs concealment fight, the winner is basically whoever gets the opener off? Just use the cheap double HS tactic and you own them ya? If you get caught and this happens to you what are the chances of you getting away? Shield probe rq and then CS to escape? Should you even bother trying to fight back at this point lawlz? I know I'll get flamed for this. But, no double HS opener is not a guarantee. Nor is it a guarantee you will kill your mirror even if you have first strike. This is where that dirty 5 letter word comes in: "Skill" Knowing your class better than the person you are fighting against knows their own class. This goes for all classes, not just your mirror class. This is also why some of the most notable scrappers/concealments are so pissed off about the constant nerfs. It's not our fault we actually know how to play our class while 98% of the community has a learning disability for which the answer to is to nerf a class into the *******. Edited April 6, 2012 by Ahebish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robpwnz Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 I realize double HS is a cheap *** way to go and its very broken. But if im landing 15k in 3 styles...Not much else that person can do. If your gonna 1v1 someone just go ahead and say we wont use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WasabiJack Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 In an "fight to the death" in open field where you can't hide or reset the duel, the opener is the deciding factor. In this case, I usually ask the opponent if we can both start the fight out of stealth so that the opener randomness is not a factor. If not, to make sure you get the opener and not your opponent, use your dart. The dart has longer range than back stab or shoot first. Dart, if they break, awsome, if they don't break, pop your relic/adrenal and open on them. Also, if you get the dart on your opponent, wait until you see the resolve bar start to go down, you have about 3 seconds from the instant it starts moving to when the dart will expire. This way you only have to wait another 6-7 seconds until you can kick them. That is perfect since the flechette round will last about that time anyway. Some other tips: Put your screen up immediately. I am amazed how many don't bother with screen. It is an amazing skill and doesn't get the attention that it should. Save dodge for vanish. If you get flashed, only break it if opponent starts healing. If you get kicked, only break it if you think he will finish you or if you have full resolve. Otherwise he'll flash you and heal to full. When your opponent vanishes, you should stealth immediately and hit your sneak skill, this will reset the fight with you having the advantage because you are in sneak (the opponent most likely is not) and he used vanish to get here and you didn't. You can most likely turn this around by opening on him when he expected to open on you from vanish. If you are on the other side of the fence, against a good player, always vanish and shoot first immediately so vanish when you are already setup for the shootfirst or a good player will own you. I typically don't use vital shot in a duel like this because I need the help from flash grenade. Use sabo charge!! so many operatives/scounderls out there that don't use this because they think it is a waste of time to go into cover. The trick is to assign your cover hotkey and sabo hot key to the same key so that you can just double tap to launch the sabo. You can do it so quick that it seems like you did it while you were moving. I'll post a video sometime. You should get the 2 sec root on tendon shot, it really helps. You should get the heal ability on pugnacity You should get exploratory surgery so you can pop pugnacity before the fight and also allows you to do an extra heal when you need to flash grenade and heal up. There is a big luck factor in these fights, but out of 20 or so fights, you should see a clear trend on the person with better skill. These fights are a lot of fun, hope these tips come in handy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JidaiGeki Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 You do realise that these are the operative forums, right? I have absolutely no idea what half the things you said mean due to the scoundrel lingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainApop Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Shoot first = hidden strike dart = sap Kick = debilitate Flechette round = acid blade screen= shield probe dodge=evasion vital shot = corrosive dart sabo charge =explosive probe tendon shot = sever tendon pugnacity = stim boost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robpwnz Posted April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 7, 2012 Yo wasabi awesome response. Thanks, I'm gonna bookmark this just for a reference. I guess I'll just need to practice this fight alot in order to master. There is nothing worse than to be only dying due to your own mirror class. Its probably too much to ask but if you did have a video of some duels or w/e that'd be legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelerific Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 You do realise that these are the operative forums, right? I have absolutely no idea what half the things you said mean due to the scoundrel lingo. So many dirty webels spyin' on us.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killercat Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 it is funny how many people use dodge in this fight when it is only good against the auto attack, first and for most don't use that, you waste time on using it. Secondly if they get the opener it is hardly over, often times they will have various cooldowns so you generally edge favor in those directions, secondly you will get two full stuns off, or at least one, while they only get a short 1.5 second stun off (always CC break out of the second stun as you will be full resolve by then) Don't waste your time with none instant things like cover to explosive probe, this fight is about raw burst, they end in a matter of seconds, or at least for me. So favor medpac over shield, also you want to use your energy gainers asap, the one who is able to have the most energy wins this one. for me on the defense end it goes like this They knock down into stun lock, break from stun from this point on I can control the battle, I stun back, acid blades > back stab > shiv > dart > probes/heal > then blast everything I can at them, they can't stun me and I am on an even footing at damage with the energy advantage and dot advantage. Towards the end of the fight is when I finally toss my grenade if I need the interruption to get off my screen, but generally fights aren't taken this far. I win about 98% of my mirror matches with this method when I am opened on. I often come out with my long cool downs in tack, they aren't meant for this fight and the double kd opener isn't worth it, it is a waste in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnEvilBus Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) it is funny how many people use dodge in this fight when it is only good against the auto attack, first and for most don't use that, you waste time on using it removes acid blade + corrsive dart, and it doesn't effect GCD (I think). so it is useful Edited April 10, 2012 by AnEvilBus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killercat Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 removes acid blade + corrsive dart, and it doesn't effect GCD (I think). so it is useful because acid blades won't be almost instantly applied the next back stab, or the fact you have to waste going to your key bind to do it, also corrosive dart isn't well in this fight as it is just a pure burst fight, not a drawn out fight. I am not talking about a random duel, in warzones you don't want to waste abilities that can be better used else were. Less abilities you have off cool down for the real fights you need them, the weaker you will perform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryemfoh Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Don't waste your time with none instant things like cover to explosive probe, this fight is about raw burst, they end in a matter of seconds, or at least for me. So favor medpac over shield, also you want to use your energy gainers asap, the one who is able to have the most energy wins this one. Agree on the energy - as for the rest, I don't think it's possible to predict the outcome of any fight to the point where you should disregard tools in your kit.. EP is our 3rd/4th hardest hitting ability, and as stated, cover+probe can be done virtually instantaneously (after root is an excellent time to get one off). Shield is off the GCD, and costs no energy ... there is no reason not to use it. Even OrbS is excellent if there's a clear opportunity (e.g. you manage to land a full-duration Flashbang/sleep early in the fight) ... the damage is pretty awesome and with stun->root you can make him/her eat the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killercat Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Agree on the energy - as for the rest, I don't think it's possible to predict the outcome of any fight to the point where you should disregard tools in your kit.. EP is our 3rd/4th hardest hitting ability, and as stated, cover+probe can be done virtually instantaneously (after root is an excellent time to get one off). Shield is off the GCD, and costs no energy ... there is no reason not to use it. Even OrbS is excellent if there's a clear opportunity (e.g. you manage to land a full-duration Flashbang/sleep early in the fight) ... the damage is pretty awesome and with stun->root you can make him/her eat the whole thing. The battlefield shifts and there might be time to use it, but in this fight, in my experience at least, it has all about 100% damage at all times. The slightest hesitation means the other dies. If you find a point to use it, then I will say go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnEvilBus Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 because acid blades won't be almost instantly applied the next back stab, or the fact you have to waste going to your key bind to do it, also corrosive dart isn't well in this fight as it is just a pure burst fight, not a drawn out fight. I am not talking about a random duel, in warzones you don't want to waste abilities that can be better used else were. Less abilities you have off cool down for the real fights you need them, the weaker you will perform. backstab is a 9 second cooldown soon to be 12, removing acid blade damage will be helpful in a mirror match up, if both players move out of range corrosive dart might be useful if they have a lot of hp, or if you flashbang them, apply that first then do normal attacks, waste going to keybinding shouldn't be a factor not talking about a random duel? he is asking about 1 v 1 that's a duel ( though i may be misunderstanding how your using "random") waste of an ability evasion is a bad ability to start with, best use is after cloaking screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killercat Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 backstab is a 9 second cooldown soon to be 12, removing acid blade damage will be helpful in a mirror match up, if both players move out of range corrosive dart might be useful if they have a lot of hp, or if you flashbang them, apply that first then do normal attacks, waste going to keybinding shouldn't be a factor not talking about a random duel? he is asking about 1 v 1 that's a duel ( though i may be misunderstanding how your using "random") waste of an ability evasion is a bad ability to start with, best use is after cloaking screen. I am coming from the perspective of 1v1 in a warzone, where evasion is best used else were. Like against a Marauder or Assassin, where the damage reduction it causes is very noticeable. Also we have a cleanse to take care of Acid blades and darts if applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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